BlackBerry PlayBook Getting No More Significant Updates, Confirms Alec Saunders
- If you tell me that I WILL be getting blackberry pie for dessert, you sent your staff to the grocery store to buy supplies for blackberry pie, they were currently in the kitchen sifting flower and cracking eggs at the time you told me about your plans for blackberry pie, and based on that knowledge you fully intended to give me blackberry pie for dessert -- but then when you took it out of the oven it fell on the floor leaving you the choice of giving me Floor Pie, or No Pie... and so decide that floor pie would not be the best plan, especially since you're attempting to maintain your reputation as a baker, thus you choose to give me No Pie because you don't want me getting on the internet and tell everyone what a horrible baker you are while bashing you for the crap-a$$ Floor Pie you served me -- are you a liar?
Grow the bleep up, people.
I have a PB too. I paid full retail price for the 64GB version. I fully expected BB10 to come to the PB. I eagerly awaited the Q10, and also bought BB stock based on my experience with and love of the PB.
But BB did NOT "lie" to me, or any of you egocentric crybabies.
The next person who claims BB "lied" about BB10 on the PB had better accompany their post with details about their vast career experience in software and hardware development lifecycles.
Every time you cry "lie, lie, lie" you just sound like a bunch of ignorant children who (a) have yet to grow up enough to fully grasp proper usage of the English language, and (b) have zero clue about how the real world works.
If anyone needs proof that BB is no longer "just for business users", all they need to do is read any recent PB thread on CB for the vast amount of proof that there are plenty of people with no business sense using BB products.
lie
noun
1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression
verb (used without object)
1. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive. Synonyms: prevaricate, fib.
2. to express what is false; convey a false impression.
So please, for the love of gawd, show me exactly where BB intentionally made a false statement with deliberate intent to deceive. And, as they say, "video, or it never happened". If you can't produce such proof, then pick a new word. Because "lie" is the wrong one.
They had plans, they made their best efforts, and came to the difficult conclusion that it was a futile pursuit given their current resources and overall corporate roadmap -- and then they TOLD us soon after making that business decision.
That does not a "lie" make.
So find a new horse to beat. This one died weeks ago, and continuing to beat it just makes you look foolish.07-17-13 02:52 PMLike 3 -
- You omitted one definition of the word lie from your insulting, condescending rant:
noun
3. an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.
If Thorsten Heins was not 100% certain that BB10 would be coming to the PlayBook when he stated that it would, he made an inaccurate or false statement, which by definition is a lie.
If he was led to believe that BB10 would be coming to the PlayBook, then he was lied to and perpetuated that lie without knowing it.
If BlackBerry didn't lie, as you claim, then they are utterly incompetent. I'm not sure that explanation is any more desirable.
So if BBRY just released a simple statement that explained all that, I think everyone would be OK.07-17-13 02:57 PMLike 8 - This is what I can't reconcile with. I don't care if it is a lie or not. But his January statement made it pretty clear that PB would be getting BB10, not a conditional "if" but a roadmap "when". So taking into account that BB10 was in the making for 2 years and was ready to be launched on phones in a couple of months, it is very hard to believe that BBRY had not tested it all on the PB to determine feasibility somewhere along the way. It just seemed like it was a complete surprise to them that it would not run on a PB. It just boggles my mind that BB10 was not developed with the PB even in the back of their mind.07-17-13 03:03 PMLike 0
-
-
I will concede to "perpetuated a lie".
But I doubt anyone can prove that TH himself knowingly perpetuated a falsehood. There is always uncertainty in business when one is lacking unlimited funding and unlimited resources -- as is usually the case.
However I am open to being proven wrong, and shown the error of my ways. So if I am mistaken, please provide me some examples of when a business was 100% certain -- mid-development -- that something would actually end up released. As well as examples of tech companies who have never in their history missed a deliverable and/or have been unable to deliver as intended. I know of none.
And if we want to mince words... what were TH's exact words? Did he say WE would get BB10 on the PB? Or just that "BB10 was coming to the PB"? Or that they fully intended to bring BB10 to the PB? Technically, if BB10 is indeed running, no matter how crappy, on at least one PB somewhere on the planet -- he didn't lie.07-17-13 03:13 PMLike 0 - Don't know why this BB story sounds similar to Palm and their webOs software... And look what it has become with Palm and their webOs.... They have even now fanboys and people who hope.. and for what?
Ok i get it... let's say that they had good intentions but were shocked that Playbook couldn't handle BB10 OS because it only has 1 Gb. OK let's say we buy that.
But after 2 years of expecting to get a better product and services like they promised.... now they tell us they won't even support the PB at all with nothing? No patches, no updates, no apps, no support... That is outrageous for me and shameless for a company that promised quality and care for their customers...
Shame on you BB...
P.S. If we don't say anything probably they think that they can get away easy... We at least have to let them know if we care about BB that this is unacceptable and their customers are unhappy. ( and who knows - People also raged after this years E3 about the Microsoft Xbox One policies and after those many complaints , they changed their policies.-maybe we have a voice and maybe we can change something...- better than doing nothing and accept their mockery or false promises or whatever you want to call it.. and smile and say to our selfs that's the way it is , we don't count, thanks RIM for 2 great years and your beautiful product and software ).07-17-13 03:24 PMLike 3 -
- Congrats on being able to sell yours for the price that I paid for my 64 GB model 18 months ago!lovemyplaybook likes this.07-17-13 03:29 PMLike 1
- lie
noun
1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression
verb (used without object)
1. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive. Synonyms: prevaricate, fib.
2. to express what is false; convey a false impression.
.playbook_swiper1 likes this.07-17-13 03:35 PMLike 1 - Yes, so yesterday I sold my last (of three) playbooks. As one of the ~1M suckers who have purchased PlayBooks, I have asked for an Alpha BB10 device for development purposes -- and got no response. Think that one year ago I was "evangelising" BlackBerry in my workplace... Good bye, BBRY!07-17-13 03:36 PMLike 0
-
- ThunderbuckRetired ModeratorYou omitted one definition of the word lie from your insulting, condescending rant:
noun
3. an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.
If Thorsten Heins was not 100% certain that BB10 would be coming to the PlayBook when he stated that it would, he made an inaccurate or false statement, which by definition is a lie.
If he was led to believe that BB10 would be coming to the PlayBook, then he was lied to and perpetuated that lie without knowing it.
An "inaccurate statement" is only a "lie" if the person who makes that statement knows it's inaccurate at the time he makes it.
At a certain point this spring, BlackBerry stopped talking about the PlayBook completely (aside from the odd tweet from branch offices, which were likely sent in good faith but in hindsight were clearly mistaken). My educated guess was that they stopped discussing the PB update only after they had made the decision not to offer it.
IN OTHER WORDS, at no time did BB affirm commitment to a PlayBook BB10 update after making the decision to cancel it. Ergo, no, not a lie.
If BlackBerry didn't lie, as you claim, then they are utterly incompetent. I'm not sure that explanation is any more desirable.07-17-13 03:45 PMLike 0 - And if we want to mince words... what were TH's exact words? Did he say WE would get BB10 on the PB? Or just that "BB10 was coming to the PB"? Or that they fully intended to bring BB10 to the PB? Technically, if BB10 is indeed running, no matter how crappy, on at least one PB somewhere on the planet -- he didn't lie.
As quoted in the article: "We will provide BlackBerry 10 software updates for all of the PlayBooks that are out there. So, the wifi and the 4G versions, they will all be upgraded to BlackBerry 10." at about 6:43 in the video.
I know in German, "will" can mean "want" -- maybe he didn't lie, in German. Vielleicht he really, really vanted to.07-17-13 03:46 PMLike 2 - It is more akin to this.
You tell me I am getting BlackBerry pie for dessert (All PlayBooks will get BB10)
You burn the pie horribly while cooking it and decide it cannot be served in such a fashion (BB10 does NOT run anywhere close to well on the PlayBooks)
You tell me that you cannot offer me BlackBerry pie (Killing BB10 development for PlayBooks)
You did not lie, circumstances changed. It was not your intention to go back on what you said, there was no malice of forethought. It is not an ethical dilemma at all.
If I was a pie shop and I gave you the old - well i burnt it so F.Off, I probably wouldn't be making pies much longer. Such as it is, this is what is happening to BBRY.
And yes, it is business ethics. Don't commit if you can't perform.Last edited by playbook_swiper1; 07-17-13 at 04:06 PM.
07-17-13 03:55 PMLike 0 -
My gripe is with the complete disconnect from the realities of business with all the "EHMRAGERD DEY LIED!" histrionics.
Yes, it sucks that there is no BB10 on the PB for us, and even worse now with apparently no more "regular" PB updates for it either. But I'd rather they make this sucky-for-us business decision, and stay alive as a company and grow -- than to see them completely drive themselves into the ground trying to get BB10 to run acceptably on the PB, to the detriment of other products and long term growth and success of the company. I'd rather see them obsolete the PB, rather than put out a product that is going to accomplish little more than giving the naysayers / stock analysts something to point to and claim "same old blackberry!"
I have yet to see anyone provide a convincing argument showing that TH acted with malice aforethought, and that BB did not fully intend -- and sincerely want -- to deliver as stated for us PB folks... but ultimately couldn't. That's not incompetence or dishonesty. That's not a "lie". That's business. At a certain point you have to stop pouring good money after bad, and redirect your energies to projects with a brighter outlook for long term benefit.
I'd like to hear from anyone who'd rather have BB10 and/or regular updates on their PB, and BB out of business -- rather than an obsolete tablet and BB still in business and thriving.... I stand by my assertion that all this incessant "they lied" stuff has devolved into nothing more than a bunch of short-sighted, childish, foot stomping. It's been nearly a month now. We need to move past this and get on to more productive things, like what Victor(?) is attempting: http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...thread-829470/07-17-13 03:57 PMLike 0 - There is actually a huge difference between being mistaken and being intentionally misleading.
An "inaccurate statement" is only a "lie" if the person who makes that statement knows it's inaccurate at the time he makes it.
At a certain point this spring, BlackBerry stopped talking about the PlayBook completely (aside from the odd tweet from branch offices, which were likely sent in good faith but in hindsight were clearly mistaken). My educated guess was that they stopped discussing the PB update only after they had made the decision not to offer it.
IN OTHER WORDS, at no time did BB affirm commitment to a PlayBook BB10 update after making the decision to cancel it. Ergo, no, not a lie.Thunderbuck likes this.07-17-13 04:00 PMLike 1 - lie
noun
1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression
verb (used without object)
1. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive. Synonyms: prevaricate, fib.
2. to express what is false; convey a false impression.
NEXT!FF22 likes this.07-17-13 04:00 PMLike 1 -
If the development team knew they were in over their head, and didn't let on -- that's on them.
I will concede to "perpetuated a lie".
But I doubt anyone can prove that TH himself knowingly perpetuated a falsehood. There is always uncertainty in business when one is lacking unlimited funding and unlimited resources -- as is usually the case.
You (and a bunch of other people here) seriously have no clue how business works -- specifically the tech industry -- do you? No company is 100% sure about anything until the product is actually released to the customer. That's just reality. There are too many variables involved in the development process.
However I am open to being proven wrong, and shown the error of my ways. So if I am mistaken, please provide me some examples of when a business was 100% certain -- mid-development -- that something would actually end up released. As well as examples of tech companies who have never in their history missed a deliverable and/or have been unable to deliver as intended. I know of none.
Some of us have come to the realization that it is because we keep looking the other way that BlackBerry remains in this rut. The company needs to fundamentally reinvent itself and change the way it is doing things if it hopes to survive, and the PlayBook's demise is a strong indication that it's business as usual at BlackBerry.
And if we want to mince words... what were TH's exact words? Did he say WE would get BB10 on the PB? Or just that "BB10 was coming to the PB"? Or that they fully intended to bring BB10 to the PB? Technically, if BB10 is indeed running, no matter how crappy, on at least one PB somewhere on the planet -- he didn't lie.
I'm not sure how you can interpret that to mean they "might" bring BB10 to the PB or "intended" to bring BB10 to the PB. Thorsten Heins clearly stated that BB10 would be coming to all versions of the PB.
Again, either he lied (or perpetuated a lie), or his company is utterly incompetent.07-17-13 04:02 PMLike 7 - There is actually a huge difference between being mistaken and being intentionally misleading.
An "inaccurate statement" is only a "lie" if the person who makes that statement knows it's inaccurate at the time he makes it.
At a certain point this spring, BlackBerry stopped talking about the PlayBook completely (aside from the odd tweet from branch offices, which were likely sent in good faith but in hindsight were clearly mistaken). My educated guess was that they stopped discussing the PB update only after they had made the decision not to offer it.
IN OTHER WORDS, at no time did BB affirm commitment to a PlayBook BB10 update after making the decision to cancel it. Ergo, no, not a lie.07-17-13 04:18 PMLike 0 - It Is What It Is!!!
The PB is still very comparable to many of the high-end tablets out there (minus the apps, of course). I get plenty of usage from my PB every day. I would like to see some sort of good will offering from BB, but the PB is a solid device and I plan to ride it until the wheels fall off.
Posted from my ??????07-17-13 04:24 PMLike 0 -
A bunch of people are ascribing intent that cannot be proven. If BB fully intended to deliver as promised, and they were actively working to do so -- at the time they told us they were actively working on the project and fully intended to deliver it -- it was not a "lie".
Truthfulness of a statement at the time of utterance is a single, fixed moment in time. The facts of that moment do not change based on future events. The statement may later prove to have been ambitious, short-sighted, over-promised, ill-informed, or a number of other things. But one cannot retroactively alter the truthfulness of a single moment in time. Ergo: not a lie. That is all.
I'm not defending their actions or the end result, and personally think they were overly ambitious and never should have uttered words that led people to believe BB10 on the PB was an inevitability. The disclaimers about "forward looking statements", attached to every business press release, exist for a reason.
If anyone produces internal memos showing they knew with certainty that BB10 on the PB was a bust -- with TH then later making statements to the contrary... then yes, that would make them a bunch of lying b@$*****.
But to besmirch TH / BB absent facts, is nothing more than an emotional response, and serves no positive purpose here or anywhere else. (And I would even go as far as to say it serves an overall negative purpose, if our community desire is to support and promote BB in the eyes of "outsiders".)
I think we should hold ourselves to the same standards we hold BB. If we expect factual, honest, fully-informed statements from them, without said statements being over-inflated with poorly supported optimism, or emotional attachment to the end result -- then don't we own them the same courtesy of making factual, honest, fully-informed statements about them that are not colored by emotional attachment?
(Or to put it another way: absent facts, aren't the people crying "liar" the real liars -- and thus reflect poorly on all of us if we don't challenge those assertions? So consider said assertions challenged. )
Anyhow, lunch break over, so carry on with your regularly-scheduled ranting.Last edited by neefer; 07-17-13 at 04:46 PM.
07-17-13 04:36 PMLike 3 - Aaah. See, this is where we disagree, and are not likely to have a meeting-of-the-minds. Intent is entirely relevant, and the core of my point-of-view on the matter.
So carry on. I've said my peace.Thunderbuck likes this.07-17-13 04:38 PMLike 1 - How can iOS7 run on 512 MB and the "super efficient" BB10 can't do it on double that? I call them on the technical limitations.
My friend at RIM has BB10 running on his PlayBook "quite well".07-17-13 04:38 PMLike 3
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BlackBerry PlayBook Getting No More Significant Updates, Confirms Alec Saunders
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