06-05-12 10:48 AM
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  1. Haseleyman's Avatar
    how so?

    my uncle just brought his new ipad to my house. i downloaded the netflix app and signed in... he said there isnt that much selection. I told him he would be able to watch anything he wanted on the internet... if he bought a playbook.

    every app he had on the ipad (including his business ones) could be done using the PBs web browser, or similar apps for the PB.

    That means home and business wins for PB and a 'home' loss for the iPad.

    Im sorry to burst your bubble... but I wont stand for false information
    Just read your reply but subsequent posts have already dealt with it and I'm sorry to say but it's your bubble that has been well and truly burst. You should also maybe refrain from making pompous statements like 'but I won't stand for false information' in the future, my friend.
    h20work likes this.
    06-03-12 05:25 PM
  2. FSeverino's Avatar
    Just a few examples:


    [*]search, annotate and sign a PDF;
    ok... but what if he wants to watch a training video using flash... see how that works? and you CAN sign PDFs with the playbook, there was a thread about it a couple months back. I never really understood annotating PDF files, people make files PDF so other people cannot change them (from my experience) if the company wants the document edited then it would be sent with word and could be edited easily.

    [*]organize a conference call with people who don't own a Playbook and don't have Adobe Connect;
    well if you are gonna say can it do this, but not this way...this way... or this way, then that is pretty foolish.

    it CAN video conference just as easy as iPad can. If it is a business devices then you would assume that the other members of the business have the same device, so PB CHAT would work just as well as facetime... and the company would surely have adobe connect.

    [*]create an Excel chart on the go;
    You can do this on the playbook through various ways, it may not be 'easy' but it can be done

    [*]always stay online, logged in, and notified with your chat/conferencing/social networking app running a background service;
    well now you are comparing a wifi device with a 3G device... the ipad wifi cant do this either (which is the one he bought), also, he has a BB so it would be better for him bc he could use bridge.

    [*]use a third party organizer/to-do list with notifications.
    Why would he need a third party organizer/to do list? He has his calendar on the playbook that does all of that for him. Also, there ARE third party apps such as Conqu and Tungle. If you need a 'notification' for every appointment then that is something that you need to deal with on a personal level, but checking your schedule in the morning and REMEMBERING your appointments has worked for 2000 years... unwarranted reliance on something does not make the lack of that thing a negative feature. Would you NOT buy an amazing house because the light controls are flip switches rather then dimmers?

    Again... not trying to be mean, just eliminating false information/assumptions
    06-03-12 09:44 PM
  3. FSeverino's Avatar
    And, why would I want to use Gmail? I have a work email account....
    i was just assuming you has a gmail account (which is what i use) but what I meant was that you can use the BROWSER to do the attaching of the files just as you would on your actual computer. If it doesnt work on the playbook then im guessing it is a problem with the work email client that you use because I have sent MANY emails with 2 or MORE files through the gmail website WITHOUT problem.

    It's a workaround
    Since when is using the ACTUAL WEBPAGE of a service instead of an app a workaround?
    lol

    LOL, I just posted how well that work around works

    Open browser
    Go to Gmail.com
    Log in
    Switch to desktop view
    Compose new email
    Click attach
    Browse for file
    Waste 30 mins to find file
    Upload file to email
    Click attach again
    Browse for file
    Waste another 30mins
    Upload file
    Send email

    Seems legit
    or... you can bookmark the 'desktop' version, save 3 steps and then use the site just as your computer. Im not sure why it takes you 30 minutes to find your files, i seem to find mine within a minute... maybe you guys arent organizing them that well.

    Just read your reply but subsequent posts have already dealt with it and I'm sorry to say but it's your bubble that has been well and truly burst. You should also maybe refrain from making pompous statements like 'but I won't stand for false information' in the future, my friend.
    How so? What have I said that has been found to be so pompous? I have said that the playbook has many things wrong with it... just as every other device... but people are saying things that arent true.

    My uncle said he preferred the iPad over the PB because the guy at the apple store told him that the PB couldnt do half the things the iPad could do. That is FALSE... and I will argue that against anyone. I will agree that the PB cannot do some of the things the iPad can, but the same can be said the other way around. But to say HALF of the things... THAT is a pompous claim, and THAT is the reason RIM and the PB are getting sh!t on by everyone.

    Think of it this way:

    Slander: false or malicious claims that may harm someone's reputation.

    If it is illegal to do it to a person then why is it 'cool' to do it to a company and then, because of all the negative attention and low sales (dont get me wrong, the sales are NOT JUST because of media/false information...but it plays a part) 6 000 people are fired. You cant 'harm' one person, but you find it ok to play a part in 'harming' 6 000?

    Again, there are MANY reasons for the situation RIM is in, and I am not saying that the huge hole they are in is JUST because of the media and people not understanding what the PB can and cannot do... but it doesnt help, and saying that I shouldnt try and correct some errors doesnt either.
    Last edited by FSeverino; 06-03-12 at 10:00 PM.
    06-03-12 09:58 PM
  4. h20work's Avatar
    Unwarranted reliance? Umm, why does every other bb device have this feature? Grasp meet straws

    Seriously, try an experiment. Load up your pb will a few thousand photos nicely organized into folders with some subfolders thrown in for good measure. Then open the native email and try to find the last photo you loaded. After that, open the contacts app and try adding a photo to one of your 300+ contacts. Bet you will assume that feature doesn't work since nothing happens for minutes and minutes. I guess you missed all the other threads about that huh?

    Some of us like our pb's but want them to at least be on par with our bb's in terms or functionality. At this point, I'd rather have os7.1 on my pb than 2.1

    For the conference call part, ipads can use Skype, tango, etc... We have pb video call and that's it. So no you can not organize a call with people that do not have a pb which must be connected to wifi. Ichat is apple only, but the rest work on many devices. So if I'm traveling (which I am now) and would like to video chat with a builder in Italy or Australia I should assume they have a pb? Shame on them if they dont

    One thing to be passionate about a device, but don't ignore the facts. Now is the part where you call us all trolls for not thinking the pb is 100% up to the task of being business ready.
    kennyliu likes this.
    06-03-12 10:17 PM
  5. kennyliu's Avatar
    ok... but what if he wants to watch a training video using flash... see how that works? and you CAN sign PDFs with the playbook, there was a thread about it a couple months back. I never really understood annotating PDF files, people make files PDF so other people cannot change them (from my experience) if the company wants the document edited then it would be sent with word and could be edited easily.
    Why do businesses need to annotate and sign PDF files? Are you serious? I don't know what industry you work in, but in Academia and research this is what people do. Annotating and signing is not the same as editing. Wake up.

    well if you are gonna say can it do this, but not this way...this way... or this way, then that is pretty foolish.

    it CAN video conference just as easy as iPad can. If it is a business devices then you would assume that the other members of the business have the same device, so PB CHAT would work just as well as facetime... and the company would surely have adobe connect.
    I am comparing a video chat with only 1 mln potential users and that works only on one platform (not even Blackberrys) to the industry standard with about 800 mln users and which is free and truly cross platform. You are suggesting that in order for a business to have a conference it must procure playbooks for its employees, partners, contractors, suppliers, etc. Now, who's being foolish?

    By the way, the iPad has Facetime with a few hundred million potential users AND Skype.

    You can do this on the playbook through various ways, it may not be 'easy' but it can be done
    Huh, OK. I hope it's not VERY EASY. At least easier than attaching files to your emails via the desktop version of Gmail and preorganizing your files in a very sophisticated file/folder system.

    well now you are comparing a wifi device with a 3G device... the ipad wifi cant do this either (which is the one he bought), also, he has a BB so it would be better for him bc he could use bridge.
    How am I comparing a wifi device with a cellular device Last I checked iOS, Android, WP, webOS - all could run background services. Even on wifi-only devices.

    Why would he need a third party organizer/to do list? He has his calendar on the playbook that does all of that for him. Also, there ARE third party apps such as Conqu and Tungle. If you need a 'notification' for every appointment then that is something that you need to deal with on a personal level, but checking your schedule in the morning and REMEMBERING your appointments has worked for 2000 years... unwarranted reliance on something does not make the lack of that thing a negative feature. Would you NOT buy an amazing house because the light controls are flip switches rather then dimmers?
    You definitely in a different line of business. I have more than three things to do in one day and I like being reminded. Besides, I like being reminded when an event created by others pops up or when a new message comes in.

    By the way, why do all those CEOs have aides? Can't they just remember things?

    Oh, by the way, by your logic, the Playbook doesn't need a calculator either. That's too much reliance that leads to calcuholism

    Again... not trying to be mean, just eliminating false information/assumptions
    False information? None on my part.

    You are just being apologetic and defensive and that's all. Any person that reads what you just wrote will be "Wow".

    Businesses don't need PDF functionality other than reading?

    Business have to buy Playbooks for everybody they deal with?

    You don't need organizers/to-do lists because you can just REMEMBER everything?

    Devices have to be 3g/4g enabled in order for background services to work?
    Last edited by kennyliu; 06-03-12 at 10:33 PM.
    brianatbb likes this.
    06-03-12 10:20 PM
  6. h20work's Avatar
    The point is you can organize your files nicely, but the pb file manager doesn't care!!!!!

    Look, I have air browser and files & folders installed, both recognize the nicely organized folder system I created. When I use either the native email or website mail, the default file manager shows every single photo, doc, video, etc and does not see the time and effort I put in to creating a nicely organized folder structure. Try it for yourself and you will see what the other people like myself are complaining about!!!!!
    kennyliu likes this.
    06-03-12 10:23 PM
  7. kennyliu's Avatar
    If it is illegal to do it to a person then why is it 'cool' to do it to a company and then, because of all the negative attention and low sales (dont get me wrong, the sales are NOT JUST because of media/false information...but it plays a part) 6 000 people are fired. You cant 'harm' one person, but you find it ok to play a part in 'harming' 6 000?
    You seriously think that if we write that the Adobe Reader app on the Playbook can't do basic things and is really subpar (to put it mildly) to what other platforms have and that the Playbook doesn't even allow background services in THIS FORUM, somebody at RIM is going to be fired?
    Last edited by kennyliu; 06-03-12 at 10:34 PM.
    06-03-12 10:28 PM
  8. kennyliu's Avatar
    The point is you can organize your files nicely, but the pb file manager doesn't care!!!!!

    Look, I have air browser and files & folders installed, both recognize the nicely organized folder system I created. When I use either the native email or website mail, the default file manager shows every single photo, doc, video, etc and does not see the time and effort I put in to creating a nicely organized folder structure. Try it for yourself and you will see what the other people like myself are complaining about!!!!!
    My point exactly, but now you can expect the following:

    "Why would anyone need to sort/organize files in a file manager? It's too much reliance on a built-in functionality. It makes you lazy."
    Last edited by kennyliu; 06-03-12 at 10:33 PM.
    06-03-12 10:30 PM
  9. h20work's Avatar
    FS, have you ever used a bb7? Compare the email experience and let me know how that works out for you

    On my 9850, I can go to my pictures, documents, or whatever and select numerous files and click "send to" and then it asks if I want to send them to whatsapp, Facebook, email, text, online album, twitter, BBM, etc ad naseum. Do they same on the pb and your only option is to delete.
    06-03-12 10:34 PM
  10. kennyliu's Avatar
    ^^^ Just like on pretty much any OS.



    But I guess, the Gmail route is much easier I wonder what FS does for sharing though?
    h20work likes this.
    06-03-12 10:36 PM
  11. FSeverino's Avatar
    Why do businesses need to annotate and sign PDF files? Are you serious? I don't know what industry you work in, but in Academia and research this is what people do. Annotating and signing is not the same as editing. Wake up.
    I was assuming you meant making notes/changes... which I would think using a word file would be easier, I havent heard of my uncle using PDFs and that was all i was basing my answer on (since that was my original post in the discussion of this, although i dont know if that post was in this thread... there are 2 or 3 threads that are very similar right now and i may be confusing them lol)


    I am comparing a video chat with only 1 mln potential users and that works only on one platform (not even Blackberrys) to the industry standard with about 800 mln users and which is free and truly cross platform. You are suggesting that in order for a business to have a conference it must procure playbooks for its employees, partners, contractors, suppliers, etc. Now, who's being foolish?
    Im not suggesting that... what I am suggesting is that if a business is using PBs OR iPads they would all , for ease of use/maintenance have ONE device chosen, in which case that eliminates the problem within the business. I also know that most companies prefer video conferences for internal issues and face to face talks to deal with signing new customers... My uncle personally flies across the country to meet with people NOT in the business and uses video conferences to talk to his employees. Again, that is what I am basing this on, as well as a few other companies policies/practices... but if that isnt how it is done in the US then I will concede the point.




    Huh, OK. I hope it's not VERY EASY. At least easier than attaching files to your emails via the desktop version of Gmail and preorganizing your files in a very sophisticated file/folder system.
    Again, im not sure... i didnt have a problem doing this. maybe I am doing it in another way or something, I can try and see tomorrow.



    How am I comparing a wifi device with a cellular device Last I checked iOS, Android, WP, webOS - all could run background services. Even on wifi-only devices.
    you said CONSTANTLY connected... i thought you meant in terms of to the internet. From my understanding the email client and other apps can all run in the background, is that what you meant?



    You definitely in a different line of business. I have more than three things to do in one day and I like being reminded. Besides, I like being reminded when an event created by others pops up or when a new message comes in.
    That can be done though, that is what i meant. Tungle can do this... from what I used of it. (and yes I only have a handful of things in a day, if that).

    By the way, why do all those CEOs have aides? Can't they just remember things?
    that is a bit of a stretch... remembering 10 things is different then 100, just as the things you have to remember are much less then the things a CEO would have to remember. The point I was making is that if you are able to remember the things you do then you will. If you cant remember them then what is the difference between getting a notification during meeting 1 about meeting 2 vs checking the info for meeting 2 after meeting 1. Have you ever got a notification and then had to re-check the info? that means the notification wasnt good enough. Again, dont get me wrong... notifications are GREAT and they SHOULD be on every device, but so should a lot of other things (including things that all three OSs in question do not have).


    Oh, by the way, by your logic, the Playbook doesn't need a calculator either. That's too much reliance that leads to calcuholism
    Im not going to lie, as a teacher I find it VERY frustrating that kids cannot do simple math without a calculator... or spell words without spell check lol. but that isnt the point. Yes, a calculator is needed... and the PB has a very well designed one with the 'previous' lines right on the side (i LOVE it)


    False information?

    You are just being apologetic and defensive and that's all. Any person that reads what you just wrote will be "Wow".

    Businesses don't need PDF functionality other than reading?

    Business have to buy Playbooks for everybody they deal with?
    I think i have explained those in this post

    You don't need organizers/to-do lists because you can just REMEMBER everything?

    Devices have to be 3g/4g enabled in order for background services to work?
    I also think i have explained these... again, sorry if it was a misunderstanding... but i think i have clarified
    06-03-12 10:39 PM
  12. h20work's Avatar
    My point exactly, but now you can expect the following:

    "Why would anyone need to sort/organize files in a file manager? It's too much reliance on a built-in functionality. It makes you lazy."
    I am lazy and I will fully admit it

    I really hope this stuff gets fixed with bb10. Scary to think, but if bb10 can't email as well as os7 RIM might as well pack it in because that will be the end of an era. I don't want an iPhone, DROID, or anything else, just want the real bb experience on my next phone.
    06-03-12 10:42 PM
  13. FSeverino's Avatar
    You seriously think that if we write that the Adobe Reader app on the Playbook can't do basic things and is really subpar (to put it mildly) to what other platforms have and that the Playbook doesn't even allow background services in THIS FORUM, somebody at RIM is going to be fired?
    no... because we already have PBs... but if we lie to other people they wont buy playbooks lol

    im also not suggesting that JUST that would cause the fall... there are obviously much deeper issues, but this IS one of many
    06-03-12 10:43 PM
  14. FSeverino's Avatar
    FS, have you ever used a bb7? Compare the email experience and let me know how that works out for you

    On my 9850, I can go to my pictures, documents, or whatever and select numerous files and click "send to" and then it asks if I want to send them to whatsapp, Facebook, email, text, online album, twitter, BBM, etc ad naseum. Do they same on the pb and your only option is to delete.
    no, i have an iPhone (which works the same way as you mentioned). I was under the assumption that we were discussing PB vs iPad vs Android.

    Ill play around with the PB tomorrow to see if i can explain myself better, but I do know that my brother loves his bold and uses it to do A LOT of emailing and all the same stuff everyone else loves to do. Im also sure that this will be fixed for BB10 and im not sure why it would be an issue on the PB.
    06-03-12 10:46 PM
  15. h20work's Avatar
    It has been an issue on the pb since day one! Only got worse when 2.0 was released with the native email app. Right now the pb can't do the same basic things that a free curve can do.

    Seriously, open Google on your browser and switch to images, then just download a bunch of random pictures. Load that sucker up with lots of stuff, that's what the storage is for right? Now open your email app and try to find the one file you are looking for.... Until you try it and see what we are complaining about there is no point in arguing about it.
    06-03-12 10:54 PM
  16. kennyliu's Avatar
    I was assuming you meant making notes/changes... which I would think using a word file would be easier, I havent heard of my uncle using PDFs and that was all i was basing my answer on (since that was my original post in the discussion of this, although i dont know if that post was in this thread... there are 2 or 3 threads that are very similar right now and i may be confusing them lol)
    Well, I know that many people use PDF annotation (highlighting, adding notes, etc.). I know lawyers and other pros I've dealt with use the signing function as well.

    I personally use annotation in grading my students paper (which I require them to submit in PDF). This also comes handy when you need to review a manuscript and then share the document with your notes with others.

    Im not suggesting that... what I am suggesting is that if a business is using PBs OR iPads they would all , for ease of use/maintenance have ONE device chosen, in which case that eliminates the problem within the business. I also know that most companies prefer video conferences for internal issues and face to face talks to deal with signing new customers... My uncle personally flies across the country to meet with people NOT in the business and uses video conferences to talk to his employees. Again, that is what I am basing this on, as well as a few other companies policies/practices... but if that isnt how it is done in the US then I will concede the point.
    Buying the same device would work but what if you need to video chat with someone who's not in your company?

    you said CONSTANTLY connected... i thought you meant in terms of to the internet. From my understanding the email client and other apps can all run in the background, is that what you meant?
    I am sorry. I should have been more clear on this.

    Only native (RIM) apps can run a background service. Third-party apps (including the preloaded ones such as Facebook) canNOT.


    That can be done though, that is what i meant. Tungle can do this... from what I used of it. (and yes I only have a handful of things in a day, if that).
    I doubt Tungle can run a background service.

    that is a bit of a stretch... remembering 10 things is different then 100, just as the things you have to remember are much less then the things a CEO would have to remember. The point I was making is that if you are able to remember the things you do then you will. If you cant remember them then what is the difference between getting a notification during meeting 1 about meeting 2 vs checking the info for meeting 2 after meeting 1. Have you ever got a notification and then had to re-check the info? that means the notification wasnt good enough. Again, dont get me wrong... notifications are GREAT and they SHOULD be on every device, but so should a lot of other things (including things that all three OSs in question do not have).
    I agree. I wish I could train my memory enough to go without some external reminders. But at times things get hectic.

    Im not going to lie, as a teacher I find it VERY frustrating that kids cannot do simple math without a calculator... or spell words without spell check lol. but that isnt the point. Yes, a calculator is needed... and the PB has a very well designed one with the 'previous' lines right on the side (i LOVE it)
    Agree on this too. Even some senior level university students can't solve 5 times 13. That's how bad the general level of math proficiency in this country is But calculators do save time.
    06-03-12 10:54 PM
  17. h20work's Avatar
    Oh, so your iPhone can do it, my bb can, and kenny's android can too. What about the pb?
    06-03-12 10:55 PM
  18. kennyliu's Avatar
    Oh, so your iPhone can do it, my bb can, and kenny's android can too. What about the pb?
    I hope they will try to introduce all the standard features/functionality that other OSs have when BB10 is released. But that is a long wait

    I also wish they could at least share what new features (compared to PBOS) BB10 will have. At least tentatively. For now, I don't know anything about BB10 other than that it will have some UI changes.
    06-03-12 10:59 PM
  19. FSeverino's Avatar
    Well, I know that many people use PDF annotation (highlighting, adding notes, etc.). I know lawyers and other pros I've dealt with use the signing function as well.

    I personally use annotation in grading my students paper (which I require them to submit in PDF). This also comes handy when you need to review a manuscript and then share the document with your notes with others.



    Buying the same device would work but what if you need to video chat with someone who's not in your company?



    I am sorry. I should have been more clear on this.

    Only native (RIM) apps can run a background service. Third-party apps (including the preloaded ones such as Facebook) canNOT.




    I doubt Tungle can run a background service.



    I agree. I wish I could train my memory enough to go without some external reminders. But at times things get hectic.



    Agree on this too. Even some senior level university students can't solve 5 times 13. That's how bad the general level of math proficiency in this country is But calculators do save time.

    ok, i think we are on the same page on everything then lol. I will check Tungle, i havent used it in a couple of months because I havent needed to. Like i said, I know that a lot of companies dont do video conferencing with people outside the company because they like to keep that face to face... although I know many teachers that do video conferences with parents, and i will definitely agree that the PB would be unable to do this in almost every case.

    by the way, what do you teach? Im currently looking for employment for highschool english and religious studies.

    Oh, so your iPhone can do it, my bb can, and kenny's android can too. What about the pb?
    exactly, im going to check tomorrow... i havent needed to send multiple attachments for a long time on the PB because I am always on a computer at work.
    kennyliu likes this.
    06-03-12 11:04 PM
  20. h20work's Avatar
    I'm sure they have a few tricks up their sleeve but are playing it close to the hip. If they show too much and don't get it out the door quickly there's too much time for the completion to implement whatever they show, and if they don't show something they risk loyalists like myself looking for greener pastures. No win situation right now for them.
    kennyliu likes this.
    06-03-12 11:05 PM
  21. h20work's Avatar
    ok, i think we are on the same page on everything then lol. I will check Tungle, i havent used it in a couple of months because I havent needed to. Like i said, I know that a lot of companies dont do video conferencing with people outside the company because they like to keep that face to face... although I know many teachers that do video conferences with parents, and i will definitely agree that the PB would be unable to do this in almost every case.

    by the way, what do you teach? Im currently looking for employment for highschool english and religious studies.



    exactly, im going to check tomorrow... i havent needed to send multiple attachments for a long time on the PB because I am always on a computer at work.
    Not gonna lie, you made me laugh. You were explaining how it's easy and possible to do but haven't tried it?
    06-03-12 11:08 PM
  22. FSeverino's Avatar
    I hope they will try to introduce all the standard features/functionality that other OSs have when BB10 is released. But that is a long wait

    I also wish they could at least share what new features (compared to PBOS) BB10 will have. At least tentatively. For now, I don't know anything about BB10 other than that it will have some UI changes.
    I think they are trying to avoid what happened with the PB. They dont want to 'release' the information unless it is actually true. I think that the native email blunder was a HUGE thing, although you could easily use the web, many people were like 'NO EMAIL'...pass.

    I would say that EVERYTHING you have seen so far is in the 80% to 90% completion range (or done) and everything else is in last stages of development but need tweaking and wont be 'released' to the public until they function at LEAST 90%. It would be a TOTAL FAILURE to say that BB10 will have features that arent actual released, no one can deny that.
    06-03-12 11:12 PM
  23. FSeverino's Avatar
    Not gonna lie, you made me laugh. You were explaining how it's easy and possible to do but haven't tried it?
    lol. no, i HAVE tried the multiple attachments... but not in a couple of months. I didnt have problems with it, but ill recheck just to make sure.

    I also find it very weird that when you go to 'pictures' on the file manager it shows EVERY picture file on the playbook... even parts of websites that were downloaded/saved. THAT is a problem for me. I have all kinds of banners and logos mixed in my unorganized pictures lol
    06-03-12 11:14 PM
  24. h20work's Avatar
    Hopefully the hands on demo RIM employees had on Thursday of bb10 had some good things in it.
    06-03-12 11:16 PM
  25. bkupris's Avatar
    Have any of you guys tried Jotsy for PDF annotation?
    06-04-12 04:27 AM
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