06-10-12 07:18 PM
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  1. hootyhoo's Avatar
    and dont forget...the only reason they got rid of buttons was to keep the manufactoring costs down
    Is this the reason that rim's first bb10 phone won't have buttons?
    04-30-12 09:09 AM
  2. Chrisy's Avatar
    A Droid X. I like being able to customize and make the phone mine.
    Gimmick. Isn't the phone yours when you buy it? When you add your email and calendar and contacts? Wallpapers, themes, colors etc are another way to draw you in.

    Do those things matter? Not in the function of the phone.

    All platforms let you rearrange app icons. Other than that, it's just a way to try to make the product sticky. It's the same thing as folks slapping tons of bumper stickers on their car.
    04-30-12 09:09 AM
  3. Chrisy's Avatar
    Hootyhoo,
    What keeps you interested in BlackBerry? Must be something!
    04-30-12 09:12 AM
  4. Eumaeus's Avatar
    I hope this thread is not representative of the kinds of conversations going on in Waterloo.

    "The iPhone sucks; Apple is nothing but a marketing machine; Apple's customers are sheep; they'll wake up Real Soon Now; apps are worthless; no one ever wants to do anything that can't be done through a web-browser; grannies and soccer moms... I know, let's throw out our traditional BlackBerry form factor and release an all touchscreen BB tied to an app store!"

    Apps are software. Computers need software, or they are useless. The browser on your computer is an app. Your smartphone is a small computer. Your phone's browser is a useful app. Your phone's browser is not the only useful app imaginable. You would not buy a computer that came with a web-browser and no possibility of running other software. Why would you accept that from a phone or a tablet?

    And the "Apple is for kids and soccer moms" red herring needs to be killed with fire. I was recently at a conference on computational linguistics, and every laptop in the room (40+) was an Apple. Some running a version of Windows, some running Linux, most running OS X. People's phones were iPhones or Androids, in about equal measure.

    The demographic for Blackberry phones is not technically proficient super-users. It is (a) busy business people or bureaucrats with limited technical skills, and better things to do than fiddle with their tech, and (b) young people who want fast, efficient, and cheap connectivity.

    I am terribly afraid that RIM, in chasing Apple's lead (and only the most delusional fans can deny that between their all-touchscreen efforts, and the Playbook, RIM has been following the puck for several years), they are dooming themselves. My heart sank when I heard that the first BB10 phones were going to be touchscreen devices, with a hardware keyboard version "to follow".

    How in the world are they going to offer a compelling alternative to iOS and Android by making a clone of iOS and Android, but without the ecosystem?

    And no, a marketing campaign that says, "We're just like the others, but with fewer apps, because you don't need them, you silly Soccer Moms!" is probably not going to reverse the slide.

    Microsoft had the right idea, but didn't follow it through: Sell your phone as a device for busy people who want to focus on getting things done. WP7 can't make a convincing case for this, since it is all about social internet integration.

    RIM could. "Your communications, your documents, safely at your fingers. Your business in the palm of your hand." Something like that, selling focus, physical keyboard, security, seriousness. Keep the keyboard; sell the business use; explicitly reject that iOS/Android model. Sell to the base, and rebuild from there.
    Chrisy and RIMWalker like this.
    04-30-12 09:18 AM
  5. hootyhoo's Avatar
    Gimmick. Isn't the phone yours when you buy it? When you add your email and calendar and contacts? Wallpapers, themes, colors etc are another way to draw you in.

    Do those things matter? Not in the function of the phone.

    All platforms let you rearrange app icons. Other than that, it's just a way to try to make the product sticky. It's the same thing as folks slapping tons of bumper stickers on their car.
    It matters to me.

    Sure the same functions are there, but when I can customize the screen to make it more functional for ME, I can't see how that could be seen as a gimmick. It seems to me to add to it's functionality.

    As a matter of fact, a friend of mine did not even know that the screens could be changed when he bought an HTC evo (he is in his 50s by the way) and I have been trying to get him up to speed. He got the phone for it's capabilities, and...wait for it....the apps. Apps that were not available on his previous bb. An iphone would have probable suited him better, but he likes the evo. My point is that a gimmick is just that. Something that doesn't really add any value, while I believe that apps and the ability to customize the UI adds a great deal of value to an individual user.
    04-30-12 09:24 AM
  6. Chrisy's Avatar
    Agree with above. I will be waiting until a physical keyboard BB10 phone is released. I still use the remote to type on my PlayBook.

    I think that's what RIM meant my going back to their roots. They won't be trying to follow Apple and Android anymore. At least I hope. They need to focus on what sets them apart from those two.
    04-30-12 09:25 AM
  7. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Microsoft had the right idea, but didn't follow it through: Sell your phone as a device for busy people who want to focus on getting things done. WP7 can't make a convincing case for this, since it is all about social internet integration
    True, but MS buggered up the launch with a half baked effort. Since then WP7.5 has been making some slow but steady gains in reviews to tide them over as they get set to launch an even more improved windows 8 across numerous device types. The difference is that MS has the resources to pull it off.

    Take note: the developers of all of the most screamed-for apps have already announced getting on board with it and it's not even out yet.

    If BB10 hits the shelves with minimal stability issues on quality hardware and good developer support, they may not shock and awe everybody, but they'll be in a very comfortable position to build on that and be a solid player in the platform wars. The downside is that MS is already "stealing" (for lack of a better word) the idea of a swipe-gesture UI, so BB10 won't hold a unique advantage in that respect on launch day for very long.

    My plan is pretty simple. I'm going to wait until iPhone 5, Android 5, WP8, and BB10 have all been out for about 3 months and choose from there.
    Last edited by omniusovermind; 04-30-12 at 09:32 AM.
    Chrisy likes this.
    04-30-12 09:25 AM
  8. hootyhoo's Avatar
    Hootyhoo,
    What keeps you interested in BlackBerry? Must be something!
    I'm not married to android. I'm curious about bb10. I'll try any phone if I think that it may work better for me.

    The same things that probably kept you around during your tryst with android. I remember your android recruiting drives.
    Chrisy likes this.
    04-30-12 09:26 AM
  9. 13echo4's Avatar
    I believe, the problem always starts with a thought that 7-point-something billion of people should think the same way as we are...

    We probably look at that way i.e. APPS demands are resulted from brainwash... unfortunately, the 14-point-something million iPad users doesn't think that way... most of them probably thought, that we are blinded by RIM's visions that no matter what they produce, they are always fulfilling our needs...

    There are probably few people who see and understand both views... and choose their product based on what they need and not what the product can do... or even other's views...
    The problem with this is that all though the numbers don't lie they do mislead. What I mean is I know several people that just download apps to have the "new app". They either never open it or try it once. They delete alo of crap when they need the space. These are app junkies.
    I share the OP's opinion. That's not to say that the PB doesn't need some more apps. We just believe that I doesn't have o have a "boatload". All the PB has to do is fill my need. Which really I didn't have. However it did help me out.
    The misleading in th numbers is. Downlads vs apps available. You can say how many apps itunes has. You can repeat what apple says has been downloaded. What you can't do is give a satisic view of what's being used or being deleted. You can't even graph a precentage of what's just sitting on devices never being used.
    What precent is paid apps? Its 1 thing to have 14 billion free apps downloaded and another to have a million .99 downloaded. That's why I don't buy into the number games. And honestly you only going to see the numbers they want you to see.
    Chrisy and kbz1960 like this.
    04-30-12 09:28 AM
  10. Chrisy's Avatar
    It matters to me.

    Sure the same functions are there, but when I can customize the screen to make it more functional for ME, I can't see how that could be seen as a gimmick. It seems to me to add to it's functionality.

    As a matter of fact, a friend of mine did not even know that the screens could be changed when he bought an HTC evo (he is in his 50s by the way) and I have been trying to get him up to speed. He got the phone for it's capabilities, and...wait for it....the apps. Apps that were not available on his previous bb. An iphone would have probable suited him better, but he likes the evo. My point is that a gimmick is just that. Something that doesn't really add any value, while I believe that apps and the ability to customize the UI adds a great deal of value to an individual user.

    Yeah but...all platforms can do that. When you say customize don't you mean rearrange apps and widgets? Is there more that I'm missing?
    Changing themes and walls are the gimmick. The illusion is that that makes the phone more yours somehow. When it doesn't add to the functionality.

    All smartphones can be be customized. How is Android better at it? Widget, maybe. I did love my widgets, as battery sucking as they were!
    04-30-12 09:29 AM
  11. hootyhoo's Avatar
    Gimmick. Isn't the phone yours when you buy it? When you add your email and calendar and contacts? Wallpapers, themes, colors etc are another way to draw you in.

    Do those things matter? Not in the function of the phone.

    All platforms let you rearrange app icons. Other than that, it's just a way to try to make the product sticky. It's the same thing as folks slapping tons of bumper stickers on their car.

    By the way, you can do much more than move icons around on an android, but I think that you already knew that.
    04-30-12 09:29 AM
  12. Chrisy's Avatar
    You can add widgets. I mentioned that. There is nothing else. What am I missing? Changing icon styles, walls, themes, fonts. All that is just for the look. You have several screens And you add icons and widgets. Sure you can choose the big clock or the analog clock. They both tell time. That is the gimmick that I think people love. Playing with stuff that doesn't matter.
    04-30-12 09:32 AM
  13. hootyhoo's Avatar
    Yeah but...all platforms can do that. When you say customize don't you mean rearrange apps and widgets? Is there more that I'm missing?
    Changing themes and walls are the gimmick. The illusion is that that makes the phone more yours somehow. When it doesn't add to the functionality.

    All smartphones can be be customized. How is Android better at it? Widget, maybe. I did love my widgets, as battery sucking as they were!
    I guess that you never used third party launchers.
    04-30-12 09:32 AM
  14. Chrisy's Avatar
    I did. I deleted. What do they add that improves functionality? I tried one that added some features like the message count icon. I missed that from my BlackBerry.
    04-30-12 09:35 AM
  15. PredatorGanaz's Avatar
    The only thing about Apple is it makes good quality MAC and MBP. Nobody can doubt its quality OS.

    As for Iphone and Ipad I am not a big fan of it.
    04-30-12 09:37 AM
  16. hootyhoo's Avatar
    You can add widgets. I mentioned that. There is nothing else. What am I missing? Changing icon styles, walls, themes, fonts. All that is just for the look.
    To continue with the highjack, a third party launcher allows for more than changing styles, walls, themes, and fonts. Come on, you had one for almost a year and you're telling me that you didn't know how to "make it yours"?
    04-30-12 09:37 AM
  17. HeezyBear's Avatar
    PEOPLE WANT CHOICES. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

    People don't want to go to a grocery store that only has three types of milk, two types of bread, and a choice between turkey and ham lunch meat. THEY WANT CHOICES.
    EricB1968 likes this.
    04-30-12 09:38 AM
  18. Chrisy's Avatar
    Oh I played with the thing all the time! It was fun, a hobby. But in the end, like I said, I used the same things as I did on my BlackBerry sans one widget. And I realized I don't want to play with my phone. I want to use it to talk (message).

    There's other reasons I switched back obviously. But thats one of them.

    I don't see the making it your own statement. I arrange my icons on any device I get. Most used at the top. What do you do differently. Maybe I wasn't using the Android right. Lol. I downloaded and tried TONS of apps and widgets for that thing. When that wore off I was left with a phone that was as efficient for communication.
    04-30-12 09:41 AM
  19. hootyhoo's Avatar
    PEOPLE WANT CHOICES. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

    People don't want to go to a grocery store that only has three types of milk, two types of bread, and a choice between turkey and ham lunch meat. THEY WANT CHOICES.
    Simple and to the point. I like that.
    04-30-12 09:41 AM
  20. Chrisy's Avatar
    Who said anything about getting rid of choice? Strawman much I'm saying the iPhone will decline as other platforms will rise. I'm sure they'll all be around. Though most of the threads here now are doom and gloom.
    04-30-12 09:44 AM
  21. Marty_LK's Avatar
    PEOPLE WANT CHOICES. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

    People don't want to go to a grocery store that only has three types of milk, two types of bread, and a choice between turkey and ham lunch meat. THEY WANT CHOICES.
    But how many thousands of choices are there for bread, milk and other grocery goods? Last time I checked, there were maybe a handful of different milks (different brands). Same goes fro bread and other goods. There's quite a few different tablets, but not in the thousands or even hundreds. I think AT&T offers maybe 60 different cellphones, most of them non-smartphones.

    The choice is there in the Appworld if anyone cares to look. There are certain high-profile apps that aren't there yet, but eventually will come. And there are off-brand versions of most of those high-profile apps.
    Chrisy likes this.
    04-30-12 09:44 AM
  22. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Speaking of customization, here's a good one for you. Can you guess what phone this is?


    Chrisy likes this.
    04-30-12 09:48 AM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Can somebody answer me this, if the majority of iphone owners are not sheep, how come one third of iphone 4 owners thought it was 4G?
    04-30-12 09:50 AM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Speaking of customization, here's a good one for you. Can you guess what phone this is?

    Click to view quoted image

    Click to view quoted image
    Hmmmmm, isn't that just icons on a screen?
    Chrisy likes this.
    04-30-12 09:52 AM
  25. Economist101's Avatar
    Can somebody answer me this, if the majority of iphone owners are not sheep, how come one third of iphone 4 owners thought it was 4G?
    We could start with the fact that 1/3rd isn't a majority under any reasonable definition.
    Marty_LK, hpjrt, sam_b77 and 1 others like this.
    04-30-12 09:53 AM
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