08-09-13 02:42 PM
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  1. kbz1960's Avatar
    RE: Hiens didn't get it right.

    To add, to build on what you have posted.
    Anyone here seen the movie "The Perfect Storm?" or something like that in which events are "perfect" for the perfect storm?

    (You guys can play with the dates, the most important dates are when it was found early on BB10 OS needed 2gb ram, (2012-09/10) and why they didn't release this info till almost 9 MONTHS later!!! (2013-6-28)
    (Read the section in the article linked to below- they had two versions= one with 1 gb, the other the winning candidate with 2gb ram. Point is it was known early on 1GB wasn't going to cut it!)

    excerpt:
    Dev A it has 1GB of ram and doesnt handle BB10 very well but it handles it, likely because the additional graphics processor on the Dev A.

    2011? PlayBook, shipped PB OS v.1xxx with basically a "beta" OS, no e-mail client, crappy app eco-system. etc. (Consumer) Bang to price ratio low. PlayBook=Not popular with the CONSUMER market. Product experiencing a high return rate, Most often cited reason for return? LACK OF APPS. WAF (Wife Approval Factor) is close to ZERO. EG: Little girl or wife wants a certain game or app and it's N/A. SideLoading process isn't consumer friendly.

    2012 - BB10 is coming!
    2012-? PB OS 2.xxx released- During one of the variations of 2.xxx updates BlackBerry (RIM) encrypts the bootloader (or whatever) so "Rooting" the phone is no longer possible.
    (The comments made by persons having a Playbook still day one is V2.xxx is the OS the PlayBook should have SHIPPED with at the time of release.. and it's still not finished!)
    2012-? Android runtime has not been updated, still at 2.3 vs 4.xxx which means apps that will run are not being maintained. Newer Android apps won't work. Crappy browser still. USB-OTG doesn't work.
    (Gee BlackBerry No-one in the whole world would want to transfer data via the USB port while out in the field.)
    2012-? With BB10 OS looming on the future. All work on any future 2.xxx OS improvements are halted, AND DEVELOPERS are focused on BB10 as it is the OS of the future.

    ( At this point the PlayBook is a dead duck unless it gets the BB10 OS or some kind of variation thereof (BB10 "lite") that will allow owners of the PlayBook access to the BB10 app eco-system.)

    Late 2012 - BlackBerry states BB10 will come to PB after the phones are released.
    2012-? Word has gotten out on the net that you can get a nicely built $699 tablet for around $150 that will get updated to BlackBerrys BB10 OS with all that entails. Stocks of old dead inventory of several hundred thousand PlayBooks (and accessories) that have been sitting in warehouses are selling well... for the first time.

    2012-09/10 In the testing phase of BB10 it is found BB10 needs 2gb of ram and the PlayBook only has 1gb of ram.
    At this point BlackBerry has a problem:
    A: PlayBooks are now "selling" in numbers. Retailers are HAPPY that the old dead stock and the associated accessories are finding a new "home." (Selling)
    B: BB10 OS, the new BB10 OS devices are in the final stages of being rolled out. The future of BlackBerry (The device division) pretty much resting on the new BB10 OS devices being a SUCCESS.


    Last thing they want before the roll out is any negative press about BB10 not coming to the PlayBook as promised.

    So what do you do?

    Proper thing to do would be to come clean that the BB10 OS needs 2GB ram, it has like 200 processes running while idle!


    Instead of coming clean:
    January 2013 - Heins: "BB10 will come to all PBs!"
    May 2013: all BB10/PB related materials disappear from developer conferences
    June 2013: Heins: "Tablets will be dead in 5 years!"


    It is not until June 28th -2013 during a "Earnings Call" that Heins drops the bombshell that he has canceled BB10 OS for the PlayBook.

    September 2012 to June 2013 = 9 MONTHS since it was "discovered" BB10 needs 2gb ram and the PlayBook has1GB.

    WHY WAIT TILL JUNE 28 2013, 9 MONTHS after discovering such?

    Simple:
    Remember that new OS and device roll-out in which BlackBerry (the device division) needs the BB10 OS and the devices to be commercially successful? You for sure don't want it to be known the devices are RAM hogs /have 200 processes running on them while idle and that the PlayBook a device you promised would get updated to BB10 won't run it.
    (QNX BB10OS is supposed to be this Super OS that is very efficient, blah,blah,blah. 200 processes while idle?)

    1: Announcing such 5-6 months down the road will minimize the impact on the new BB10 OS itself and won't impact new BB10 device sales to any degree.
    2: It will be EASIER to state the BB10 for the PlayBook project has been killed off and get away with it as with any new OS /device roll-out you can use the age old excuse "Hey we've got to take care of our "new" customers- they're having problems!


    Here's a Video you need to see:

    History and technical reasons BB10 was canceled:
    Why BlackBerry Killed the PlayBook - BerryFlow

    In closing I really don't care about the dates, I bought $4,000 worth of RIM/BlackBerry product based upon statements made by Top Ranking Officials (The CEO no less) of what is supposedly a "Professional" company. It wasn't a case I made purchases based on "rumors" by third parties and it's not acceptable for them say 8-9 MONTHS after they knew BB10 OS needs "2GB" they "just" figured out the PlayBook with 1GB or ram isn't going to run it. It's especially insulting no mention was or has been made of a PLAN B in which the current OS gets a major work-over.


    .
    Sure makes them look like incompetent ijiits.

    No. We just aren't all teary eyed and emotional over a tablet or phone. We are objective. Do they work for what we bought them for? Yes. That's it. Nothing more.

    From Zed to U via CB10
    I'm glad yours is good. When did you buy it? At bargain basement prices? It still doesn't do what it was supposed to do 2 years ago. How many other products do you own just because of the name on it even though it doesn't perform as advertised?
    08-03-13 01:33 PM
  2. 9Jer99's Avatar
    No. We just aren't all teary eyed and emotional over a tablet or phone. We are objective. Do they work for what we bought them for? Yes. That's it. Nothing more.

    From Zed to U via CB10
    Glad yours does.
    But then your only data point is yourself so I wouldn't say your poll is very scientific.
    I'm still waiting for mine to work at least to a competent level. There are still things on the Playbook that could be improved.
    Even Microsoft updates so BB bailing on the Playbook completely is sub par for the industry.
    Just remember the precedence has been set and this is the way you can expect to be treated in the future.
    imz, Ragwan, arvind1983 and 1 others like this.
    08-03-13 02:09 PM
  3. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    Wow so many people defending Thor and BlackBerry when they clearly screwed customers over.

    Damn Blackberry fanboys are the worst.

    Sent from my SGH-I717R using CB Forums mobile app
    Lol I'm far from being a fanboy I just don't see a point. Businesses are there to make money, not start relationships with their customers, plus this issue has been done to death. Course, it probably helps that I got my PB for $150...

    Carry on with the regular scheduled whining program.
    anon(4275744) likes this.
    08-03-13 02:39 PM
  4. FF22's Avatar
    Lol I'm far from being a fanboy I just don't see a point. Businesses are there to make money, not start relationships with their customers, plus this issue has been done to death. Course, it probably helps that I got my PB for $150...

    Carry on with the regular scheduled whining program.
    Here I have to disagree. It is called Good Will. It is also known as repeating or returning customers. Unless you are selling me my coffin - a once in a life deathtime purchase, you would hope that our "relationship" is such that if I need another similar product down the line, say a new phone or two, I will return to your company and product. Blow that "relationship" too badly and not only may I not buy your product again, I may suggest strongly that others also avoid it due to factors x, y, and z, among them poor follow-through.

    But that's may just be my opinion.

    Carry on with the regularly scheduled winning program.
    08-03-13 04:13 PM
  5. lorax1284's Avatar
    Here I have to disagree. It is called Good Will. It is also known as repeating or returning customers.
    Anyone who says that losing customer loyalty isn't bad is a, ahem, ******. Yes, I know that's not a PC word, but I'm not referring to someone who is developmentally handicapped as a "******"... I'm referring to someone who actually DOES know better but comes on a discussion forum and says it anyway.

    There are so many ways that the value of customer retention is demonstrated in day to day business dealings between companies of all sizes and both consumers and other companies. Since this is a mobile communications device forum, I'm sure we've all heard of the "retentions" department at cellular providers who have paid staff and whole procedures designed to 'maintain the relationship' between a company and a customer. "businesses aren't there to start relationships with customers" is, giving the poster the benefit of the doubt, a very VERY poorly articulated oversimplification of the complexities of running a business.

    Thor... you effed it up.
    FF22, cmdr_dan, JeepBB and 1 others like this.
    08-03-13 04:18 PM
  6. bgregory902's Avatar
    Wow so many people defending Thor and BlackBerry when they clearly screwed customers over.

    Damn Blackberry fanboys are the worst.

    Sent from my SGH-I717R using CB Forums mobile app
    #1) just because someone can relate and has the common sense to be able to see what was done and agrees with it doesn't make them a "fan boy".

    #2) I'm a grown *** man, not a boy.

    And #3) if you don't like fan boys then maybe you should leave this BLACKBERRY site.

    I'm so sick and tired of hearing people degrade other people because they are fans of BlackBerry. Like I said this is a BlackBerry site. Get over it!

    Posted via CB10
    anon(4275744) and MobileZen like this.
    08-03-13 06:14 PM
  7. ubeda92's Avatar
    Still interesting witnessing some of these fanboys come on these threads with their heads wedged deep inside theirs asses, yet telling us how much they are enjoying the view of a wonderful sunrise.
    08-03-13 06:32 PM
  8. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    Here I have to disagree. It is called Good Will. It is also known as repeating or returning customers. Unless you are selling me my coffin - a once in a life deathtime purchase, you would hope that our "relationship" is such that if I need another similar product down the line, say a new phone or two, I will return to your company and product. Blow that "relationship" too badly and not only may I not buy your product again, I may suggest strongly that others also avoid it due to factors x, y, and z, among them poor follow-through.

    But that's may just be my opinion.

    Carry on with the regularly scheduled winning program.
    But the whole point of that relationship is for money, right? So for some reason they decide that it's better to spend money elsewhere than to make the 2.7 million PB owners happy.

    And were they lying? I think at the beginning they really thought they would be able to do it - maybe the last few times they actually knew they couldn't but said they would anyway. Or maybe every time Thor said he would bring BB10 to PB he honestly thought they would, and they just scrapped the idea within the last few months. I won't say I have the answer and I don't think anyone else knows for sure either.
    08-03-13 08:52 PM
  9. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    There are so many ways that the value of customer retention is demonstrated in day to day business dealings between companies of all sizes and both consumers and other companies. Since this is a mobile communications device forum, I'm sure we've all heard of the "retentions" department at cellular providers who have paid staff and whole procedures designed to 'maintain the relationship' between a company and a customer. "businesses aren't there to start relationships with customers" is, giving the poster the benefit of the doubt, a very VERY poorly articulated oversimplification of the complexities of running a business.
    I knew that was going to come up and should have clarified earlier: when they want to start relationships with customers it's because it's easier to keep current customers happy than to get new ones, and the reason they want to keep customers happy is purely for profit. BlackBerry isn't a charity, it's a business. Just like Apple and MS decided to change practically everything in their OS with the risk of some people not liking it (iOS 7 and Win 8), they decided that the benefits outweigh the setbacks. I'm sure BB knew that hundreds, maybe even thousands or ten thousands, of people wouldn't appreciate their decision, they must have decided that the benefits outweigh the setbacks.
    lnichols likes this.
    08-03-13 08:59 PM
  10. lorax1284's Avatar
    they must have decided that the benefits outweigh the setbacks.
    When you're in BlackBerry's position, the **** of every tech pundit's low brow shooting-fish-in-a-barrel kick-'em-when-they're-down "jokes" and there are a couple million super passionate fans, and a few million more technology advocates and then tens of millions more that could go either way... do you really want to **** off ANY of them that are your current customers?

    I'll continue to defend BlackBerry technology, because I believe it is great... but... and it's a great huge stinky BUT... callous disregard for the core loyal customers who ARE "PATIENTS ZERO" for any viral marketing campaign for any consumer advocacy / outreach, those who can and will defend both the TECHNOLOGY and the COMPANY from UNFAIR criticism... is it good business? I can't tell the future, but given the choice that Thor has in front of him (yes, HAS, because bad decisions can be unmade) to do one of

    a) spend a few hundred thousand to a couple million dollars and some possibly key development resources on doing something reasonably substantial to PBOS 2.1 to integrate new Webkit, and of course update BB10 Bridge server, maybe add full Bluetooth mic / speak support to the PlayBook to use it's mic and speakers as a "speakerphone"; or
    b) SAVE a couple million dollars and alienate the key customers described above

    which is the "right business decision". I don't think you have to be Steve Jobs to know that it's a false economy to save cash or resources at the expense of positive word-of-mouth that is ESSENTIAL to BlackBerry regaining market share.

    I will continue to defend technically inaccurate criticism of BB10, but there's no defense for the idiotic management strategy that lead to "Screw our best customers and a key marketing asset!" that is the offhand dismissal of PlayBook development.

    Now, I'm seriously worried about the future of BB10: clearly Thor thinks he's going to get all NEW customers to replace the loyal ones that he's alienated. Well, that's not working out so well, is it, Thorsten?

    Do you think your competitors aren't trying to steal the best ideas of BB10 and work them into their devices?

    Do you think that your once-loyal customers, all things being equal, where iOS or Android have adapted and integrated some of the best of BB10 into their platforms, that we're going to just say "Nope, I'm sticking with BlackBerry, because they've always done right by me."? Especially now that one of the key differentiators, BBM, will be available on subjectively better Android and iOS platforms?

    It's baffling. How does someone in Thor's position rationalize those decisions (it's not just one decision: abandoning efforts to port BB10 to the PlayBook was one decision that I accept, but I don't accept the decision to not advance PBOS in any way, as a part of making amends for the BB10 errors and decision).

    It's like having an army with 70 million people, and maybe 2 million elite members, and demoralizing the elite ones, confident that the other 68 million didn't notice... then you yell "CHARGE!" and the 2 million have already gone home, and the 68 million are there going "huh? did you say something? um... nevermind." The two million elite were supposed to be leading the charge, but you basically made them give up. There's no alternate reality I can imagine where that is a good idea.
    cmdr_dan, FF22, toffeenose and 1 others like this.
    08-03-13 10:08 PM
  11. cmdr_dan's Avatar
    Still interesting witnessing some of these fanboys come on these threads with their heads wedged deep inside theirs asses, yet telling us how much they are enjoying the view of a wonderful sunrise.
    I have had the same opinion of Heins. No wonder why he can't hear what the customers are saying. BlackBerry is once again RIM (Rectalcraniosis Is Malignant ).
    08-03-13 10:55 PM
  12. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    I have had the same opinion of Heins. No wonder why he can't hear what the customers are saying. BlackBerry is once again RIM (Rectalcraniosis Is Malignant ).
    They never stopped being RIM.
    FF22, Chrysalis1156 and JeepBB like this.
    08-04-13 12:03 AM
  13. cbvinh's Avatar
    When Heins took charge and didn't kill existing projects immediately (like Elop of Nokia and many typical new CEO's), I thought, "Hey, this guy is different. He'll evaluate the situation and decide from there." When he announced that BB10 would come to the PlayBook, I guessed he had evaluated the situation then too: It /was/ feasible. When he killed the project in an earnings report, it seemed like he was being the typical CEO, caving into investor worries rather than having vision.

    For those saying "good will" doesn't matter... I have to say I'm less likely to recommend any BlackBerry product now. I might like the products and use them myself, taking a risk myself, but I wouldn't want to burn friends and relatives. I have no idea what the company says will hold true anymore.
    08-04-13 01:14 AM
  14. anon(4275744)'s Avatar
    I've read the past page or two. Can you expand on your rants? I found it too much of a summary.

    From Zed to U via CB10
    lotuslanderz likes this.
    08-04-13 01:19 AM
  15. cbvinh's Avatar
    How much more disenchanted would PlayBook users be if it was discovered that BB10 was killed on the PlayBook so that BBM could be ported to Android and iOS?
    08-04-13 01:21 AM
  16. 9Jer99's Avatar
    I knew that was going to come up and should have clarified earlier: when they want to start relationships with customers it's because it's easier to keep current customers happy than to get new ones, and the reason they want to keep customers happy is purely for profit. BlackBerry isn't a charity, it's a business. Just like Apple and MS decided to change practically everything in their OS with the risk of some people not liking it (iOS 7 and Win 8), they decided that the benefits outweigh the setbacks. I'm sure BB knew that hundreds, maybe even thousands or ten thousands, of people wouldn't appreciate their decision, they must have decided that the benefits outweigh the setbacks.
    And for that, they will pay. You reap what you sow.
    Some decisions are smart and some are just plain dumb.
    08-04-13 07:27 AM
  17. arvind1983's Avatar
    Lol I'm far from being a fanboy I just don't see a point. Businesses are there to make money, not start relationships with their customers, plus this issue has been done to death. Course, it probably helps that I got my PB for $150...

    Carry on with the regular scheduled whining program.
    Even though I love my Z10., it will share the same fate, keep closing your eyes!
    Last edited by arvind1983; 08-04-13 at 07:52 AM.
    08-04-13 07:32 AM
  18. arvind1983's Avatar
    No. We just aren't all teary eyed and emotional over a tablet or phone. We are objective. Do they work for what we bought them for? Yes. That's it. Nothing more.

    From Zed to U via CB10
    Covering up?
    Last edited by arvind1983; 08-04-13 at 07:51 AM.
    08-04-13 07:33 AM
  19. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    And for that, they will pay. You reap what you sow.
    Some decisions are smart and some are just plain dumb.
    Sure, it's up to you as a consumer to decide whether to keep supporting them or not.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9320 using Tapatalk
    08-04-13 11:04 AM
  20. offyoutoddle's Avatar
    There is no right or wrong only opinions I have heard it said.

    Some will defend BlackBerry to the hilt as it makes them happy. Good for you, I won't call them names like fanboy.

    Some will complain in the hope it will be heard. Again, it's their right and they shouldn't be called trolls.

    I personally will be pragmatic - nothing said here will change anything that happens in Blackberry's boardrooms. If it makes people feel better then good for them. But for your own sanity consider that BlackBerry are pretty clear our tablet has no future. We won't get BB10, any OS updates or a Bridge that works on a BB10 phone the way it did on a BBOS phone. I'm pretty certain Thor was talking hot air when he was on the spot about any compensation programme for PlayBook users. They aren't going to listen to our views, they have made their decisions. And now so must all of us. You can do it the easy way or the hard way.

    In the final analysis judgement on blackberry will be measured by their customers past, present and futures behaviour, which will show in their share price and if they are still around a year from now. Or less.

    All that can be said right now is that the wind is not blowing favourably for them today. Ignoring the value of fostering good customer relationships by keeping promises made to secure repeat custom has to at least be part of their current dire straits.



    Posted via CB10
    08-04-13 12:23 PM
  21. hasib123's Avatar
    Mr heins will do nothing. Bbry is so poorly managed. Origami browser proves how an independent developer made a better browser than Bbry.
    Ragwan and Tazos like this.
    08-04-13 01:21 PM
  22. cbvinh's Avatar
    Mr heins will do nothing. Bbry is so poorly managed. Origami browser proves how an independent developer made a better browser than Bbry.
    A nice gesture for PlayBook fans would be for BlackBerry to fund the Origami developer. BlackBerry keeps the browser free for the PlayBook. The developer gets deserved money /and/ to keep ownership.
    08-04-13 02:06 PM
  23. FF22's Avatar
    Final word:

    He (thor) broke it, you bought it.

    There's still no word and probably won't be on what he meant by CONTINUED SUPPORT.

    He shoots from the hip with a loose lip and while he might regret it later, does nothing to clarify his TOTALLY ambiguous statements.

    GAWD DAMMIT IT - FIX THE FULL BRIDGE IN BB10. IMPROVE OS2 if you are not going to provide any other scraps.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    08-04-13 02:38 PM
  24. jpash549's Avatar
    Time to move on. One GB of RAM is not enough- that seems to be established. The processor and graphics hardware are not good enough. But Heins ought to give us a more complete explanation of the reason for dropping the project.

    New devices from BB have two GB RAM as do those from most competitors. The necessity for having an Android runtime on top of the base OS is a problem the others don't have although Windows might come to that. Heins could not weigh down the BB10 programmers with the requirement that it be backward compatible with the PB even allowing some adjustments. I'm sure he realized that there would be deep disappointment and accusation of promise breaking by the PB owners but perhaps he hoped for some understanding from the PB owners. He might have gotten this if he had put forth a letter announcing the decision to the PB owners and explaining the reasoning in advance of the public announcement. Now they have some damage repair to do.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    08-04-13 02:43 PM
  25. hasib123's Avatar
    Final word:

    He (thor) broke it, you bought it.

    There's still no word and probably won't be on what he meant by CONTINUED SUPPORT.

    He shoots from the hip with a loose lip and while he might regret it later, does nothing to clarify his TOTALLY ambiguous statements.

    GAWD DAMMIT IT - FIX THE FULL BRIDGE IN BB10. IMPROVE OS2 if you are not going to provide any other scraps.
    Does this mean his hips don't lie
    FF22 likes this.
    08-04-13 03:55 PM
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