08-09-13 03:42 PM
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  1. gunnerfitzy's Avatar
    re-sale value is not something anyone should take into account when buying something as a CONSUMER - you buy it to use it, not sell it on.
    I can not accept this I'm afraid. IMHO, if it is probable that an purchased item would be sold on in the future, anyone who does NOT take future resell value into consideration is not considering all the factors. Who would buy a Q10 at RRP today if they thought that in two years they would only get $/€ 30 for it? With the exception of the most diehard fan - no one!
    Robert Roger and arvind1983 like this.
    07-31-13 11:10 AM
  2. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    I can not accept this I'm afraid. IMHO, if it is probable that an purchased item would be sold on in the future, anyone who does NOT take future resell value into consideration is not considering all the factors. Who would buy a Q10 at RRP today if they thought that in two years they would only get $/€ 30 for it? With the exception of the most diehard fan - no one!
    Resale value is determine by current market condition. No company can fool prove resale value. Not even if you are dealing with currencies and precious metal. Let alone tech devices.
    07-31-13 11:16 AM
  3. gunnerfitzy's Avatar
    Resale value is determine by current market condition. No company can fool prove resale value. Not even if you are dealing with currencies and precious metal. Let alone tech devices.
    Of course there are no guarantees and it's not an exact science. However, it is prudent to make an educated assessment of the likely future resell value of an item. Should one include statements by the CEO of the manufacturer in this assessment, I would have said yes, normally. However I think in the future I will likely say no! If the manufacturer is BlackBerry, certainly not!
    07-31-13 12:02 PM
  4. 9Jer99's Avatar
    re-sale value is not something anyone should take into account when buying something as a CONSUMER - you buy it to use it, not sell it on.

    However, I have to agree that the promise/commitment was given at the start of the year by the CEO to provide 'ALL playbooks' with BB10 and I suspect that quite a few of the later sales were influenced by this.

    I'd also like to throw in that I suspect a fair few PB owners held off getting a z10/q10/q5 until they knew the bridge functionality would be available between the new handsets and their PB's - so that may equate to further lost sales of BB10 devices.
    So you never take into account the resell value of a car or home you purchase. Hummmm how interesting.
    Robert Roger likes this.
    07-31-13 03:51 PM
  5. uncle_numpty's Avatar
    So you never take into account the resell value of a car or home you purchase. Hummmm how interesting.
    Well no, a house is'nt a consumable item - although a cheap car could be considered consumable.
    glasgowguy likes this.
    07-31-13 04:34 PM
  6. RJB55's Avatar
    On the Topic question:

    I think he thought about it for maybe 10 seconds, scratched his backside, poured another Scotch and went back to watching the game.

    He just wants this to go away period.
    FF22 and blueberrymerry like this.
    07-31-13 05:22 PM
  7. bgregory902's Avatar
    So bb10 won't run well on present pb hardware. Does that mean they couldn't being over something to the pb?

    Posted via CB10
    I'm sure they could, but the question is is whether or not it is financially feasible given their current state.

    Posted via CB10
    07-31-13 06:36 PM
  8. bgregory902's Avatar
    So you would never take factors such as future resell value into account when making purchases no?
    I would never buy a tech item based on resale value.

    Posted via CB10
    anon(4275744) likes this.
    07-31-13 06:43 PM
  9. qwerty4ever's Avatar
    Oh yeah....he's gonna bend wayyyy over backwards to please PlayBook owners....because other than their good ol' boys executive millionaire club, rich CEOs are all about giving money away to hard working middle-to-upper-middle class folk....just click the heels of your ruby red slippers three times and hold your breath until it comes true. In the mean time, I'll have an ambulance sent over
    Your literary skills astound and captivate me. :-)

    Posted via CB10 from the BlackBerry Z10
    07-31-13 08:11 PM
  10. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    So you never take into account the resell value of a car or home you purchase. Hummmm how interesting.
    $600 phone < $10,000 car < $300,000 house.

    Plus, most people buy phones for $200 or less under contract. Big difference. Would you take into account the resale value of a $500 car?
    07-31-13 08:24 PM
  11. trwrt's Avatar
    They surely could have anticipated that this question would be asked. BlackBerry should have decided on a program to announce right away, or else just say 'no'. This 'well, maybe' business is like telling a girl you'll call when you know you're not going to. It's a weasel way to not look like a bad guy until after you can get away. Heins wants to make the tough calls but apparently he's afraid people will get mad at him for doing so. That's not how a leader should behave.
    blueberrymerry, FF22 and cmdr_dan like this.
    07-31-13 09:15 PM
  12. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    Either Heins didn't get the right info - then fire the fools who advised him BB10 could run on the PB - or he's just a weasel, in which case just fire the CEO!

    Here's a timeline of BB10/PB announcements:
    • 2012 - BB10 is coming!
    • Late 2012 - BB10 will come to PB after the phones are released
    • January 2013 - Heins: "BB10 will come to all PBs!"
    • May 2013: all BB10/PB related materials disappear from developer conferences
    • June 2013: Heins: "Tablets will be dead in 5 years (but PB will die first)!"
    • July 2013: Heins: "No BB10 for PB because it's not smooth enough, blah blah... (we fired all our PB devs or they left so there's no one to work on it)"
    • August 2013: Heins: "PB? What's that, peanut butter? Does that go well with blackberry jam?"


    When you have a very limited new platform with just two phones and a tablet, and you go around telling the world the tablet will be part of an emerging ecosystem of devices and services, then you later slip in a line saying it won't, you look like a flip-flopping fool. I think it's not a matter of getting BB10 to run well on PB, it's a matter of allocating enough people to do it properly... yet BBRY with its thousands of engineers cannot do that.

    BBRY should do the sane thing and leak the last working BB10/PB release. Let loyal fans and hackers work on it to improve it.
    07-31-13 09:23 PM
  13. uncle_numpty's Avatar
    Either Heins didn't get the right info - then fire the fools who advised him BB10 could run on the PB - or he's just a weasel, in which case just fire the CEO!

    Here's a timeline of BB10/PB announcements:
    • 2012 - BB10 is coming!
    • Late 2012 - BB10 will come to PB after the phones are released
    • January 2013 - Heins: "BB10 will come to all PBs!"
    • May 2013: all BB10/PB related materials disappear from developer conferences
    • June 2013: Heins: "Tablets will be dead in 5 years (but PB will die first)!"
    • July 2013: Heins: "No BB10 for PB because it's not smooth enough, blah blah... (we fired all our PB devs or they left so there's no one to work on it)"
    • August 2013: Heins: "PB? What's that, peanut butter? Does that go well with blackberry jam?"


    When you have a very limited new platform with just two phones and a tablet, and you go around telling the world the tablet will be part of an emerging ecosystem of devices and services, then you later slip in a line saying it won't, you look like a flip-flopping fool. I think it's not a matter of getting BB10 to run well on PB, it's a matter of allocating enough people to do it properly... yet BBRY with its thousands of engineers cannot do that.

    BBRY should do the sane thing and leak the last working BB10/PB release. Let loyal fans and hackers work on it to improve it.
    Now that's a great idea for a t-shirt.

    'The BBRY Playbooks - the broken promises world tour' - then on the back list all the relevant PB dates from above but include it's release date and all the failed timelines from that date ( 6 weeks for email etc. ).

    Hell - i'd even pay for a box load to be mailed to BBRY headquarters.

    Any word on the hard thinking Thor is doing to recognize loyal but disenchanted PlayBook users?-bbry.jpg
    Last edited by uncle_numpty; 08-01-13 at 04:21 AM.
    08-01-13 03:18 AM
  14. WeAreNotAlone's Avatar
    Either Heins didn't get the right info - then fire the fools who advised him BB10 could run on the PB - or he's just a weasel, in which case just fire the CEO!

    Here's a timeline of BB10/PB announcements:
    • 2012 - BB10 is coming!
    • Late 2012 - BB10 will come to PB after the phones are released
    • January 2013 - Heins: "BB10 will come to all PBs!"
    • May 2013: all BB10/PB related materials disappear from developer conferences
    • June 2013: Heins: "Tablets will be dead in 5 years (but PB will die first)!"
    • July 2013: Heins: "No BB10 for PB because it's not smooth enough, blah blah... (we fired all our PB devs or they left so there's no one to work on it)"
    • August 2013: Heins: "PB? What's that, peanut butter? Does that go well with blackberry jam?"


    When you have a very limited new platform with just two phones and a tablet, and you go around telling the world the tablet will be part of an emerging ecosystem of devices and services, then you later slip in a line saying it won't, you look like a flip-flopping fool. I think it's not a matter of getting BB10 to run well on PB, it's a matter of allocating enough people to do it properly... yet BBRY with its thousands of engineers cannot do that.

    BBRY should do the sane thing and leak the last working BB10/PB release. Let loyal fans and hackers work on it to improve it.
    RE: Hiens didn't get it right.

    To add, to build on what you have posted.
    Anyone here seen the movie "The Perfect Storm?" or something like that in which events are "perfect" for the perfect storm?

    (You guys can play with the dates, the most important dates are when it was found early on BB10 OS needed 2gb ram, (2012-09/10) and why they didn't release this info till almost 9 MONTHS later!!! (2013-6-28)
    (Read the section in the article linked to below- they had two versions= one with 1 gb, the other the winning candidate with 2gb ram. Point is it was known early on 1GB wasn't going to cut it!)

    excerpt:
    Dev A – it has 1GB of ram and doesn’t handle BB10 very well but it handles it, likely because the additional graphics processor on the Dev A.

    2011? PlayBook, shipped PB OS v.1xxx with basically a "beta" OS, no e-mail client, crappy app eco-system. etc. (Consumer) Bang to price ratio low. PlayBook=Not popular with the CONSUMER market. Product experiencing a high return rate, Most often cited reason for return? LACK OF APPS. WAF (Wife Approval Factor) is close to ZERO. EG: Little girl or wife wants a certain game or app and it's N/A. SideLoading process isn't consumer friendly.

    2012 - BB10 is coming!
    2012-? PB OS 2.xxx released- During one of the variations of 2.xxx updates BlackBerry (RIM) encrypts the bootloader (or whatever) so "Rooting" the phone is no longer possible.
    (The comments made by persons having a Playbook still day one is V2.xxx is the OS the PlayBook should have SHIPPED with at the time of release.. and it's still not finished!)
    2012-? Android runtime has not been updated, still at 2.3 vs 4.xxx which means apps that will run are not being maintained. Newer Android apps won't work. Crappy browser still. USB-OTG doesn't work.
    (Gee BlackBerry No-one in the whole world would want to transfer data via the USB port while out in the field.)
    2012-? With BB10 OS looming on the future. All work on any future 2.xxx OS improvements are halted, AND DEVELOPERS are focused on BB10 as it is the OS of the future.

    ( At this point the PlayBook is a dead duck unless it gets the BB10 OS or some kind of variation thereof (BB10 "lite") that will allow owners of the PlayBook access to the BB10 app eco-system.)

    Late 2012 - BlackBerry states BB10 will come to PB after the phones are released.
    2012-? Word has gotten out on the net that you can get a nicely built $699 tablet for around $150 that will get updated to BlackBerrys BB10 OS with all that entails. Stocks of old dead inventory of several hundred thousand PlayBooks (and accessories) that have been sitting in warehouses are selling well... for the first time.

    2012-09/10 In the testing phase of BB10 it is found BB10 needs 2gb of ram and the PlayBook only has 1gb of ram.
    At this point BlackBerry has a problem:
    A: PlayBooks are now "selling" in numbers. Retailers are HAPPY that the old dead stock and the associated accessories are finding a new "home." (Selling)
    B: BB10 OS, the new BB10 OS devices are in the final stages of being rolled out. The future of BlackBerry (The device division) pretty much resting on the new BB10 OS devices being a SUCCESS.


    Last thing they want before the roll out is any negative press about BB10 not coming to the PlayBook as promised.

    So what do you do?

    Proper thing to do would be to come clean that the BB10 OS needs 2GB ram, it has like 200 processes running while idle!


    Instead of coming clean:
    January 2013 - Heins: "BB10 will come to all PBs!"
    May 2013: all BB10/PB related materials disappear from developer conferences
    June 2013: Heins: "Tablets will be dead in 5 years!"


    It is not until June 28th -2013 during a "Earnings Call" that Heins drops the bombshell that he has canceled BB10 OS for the PlayBook.

    September 2012 to June 2013 = 9 MONTHS since it was "discovered" BB10 needs 2gb ram and the PlayBook has1GB.

    WHY WAIT TILL JUNE 28 2013, 9 MONTHS after discovering such?

    Simple:
    Remember that new OS and device roll-out in which BlackBerry (the device division) needs the BB10 OS and the devices to be commercially successful? You for sure don't want it to be known the devices are RAM hogs /have 200 processes running on them while idle and that the PlayBook a device you promised would get updated to BB10 won't run it.
    (QNX BB10OS is supposed to be this Super OS that is very efficient, blah,blah,blah. 200 processes while idle?)

    1: Announcing such 5-6 months down the road will minimize the impact on the new BB10 OS itself and won't impact new BB10 device sales to any degree.
    2: It will be EASIER to state the BB10 for the PlayBook project has been killed off and get away with it as with any new OS /device roll-out you can use the age old excuse "Hey we've got to take care of our "new" customers- they're having problems!


    Here's a Video you need to see:

    History and technical reasons BB10 was canceled:
    Why BlackBerry Killed the PlayBook - BerryFlow

    In closing I really don't care about the dates, I bought $4,000 worth of RIM/BlackBerry product based upon statements made by Top Ranking Officials (The CEO no less) of what is supposedly a "Professional" company. It wasn't a case I made purchases based on "rumors" by third parties and it's not acceptable for them say 8-9 MONTHS after they knew BB10 OS needs "2GB" they "just" figured out the PlayBook with 1GB or ram isn't going to run it. It's especially insulting no mention was or has been made of a PLAN B in which the current OS gets a major work-over.


    .
    Last edited by WeAreNotAlone; 08-02-13 at 11:23 PM.
    08-02-13 01:21 AM
  15. LMZR's Avatar
    Well it's most likely i'm in a minority here.

    But i don't really want any compensation from Blackberry, I'm actually happy with my device.
    anon(4275744) likes this.
    08-02-13 06:44 AM
  16. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    That's a long post from WeAreNotAlone and yes, you're not alone in your views

    Why did it take so long for BBRY to realize BB10 needs 2GB RAM to run smoothly?

    If BB10 running QNX is supposed to be so resource-efficient, then why the hell does it need 2 GB of RAM to do anything when even leaky Android with its virtual machine overhead runs fine on 1 GB?

    Why couldn't they release a stripped down version to fit in the PB's 1GB RAM? The answer can only come from the engineers.

    To compare, Nokia released the latest Symbian update to run on later devices with 512 MB RAM. They also released a stripped down version for early devices with 256 MB RAM. The early devices don't get a lot of the goodies but they get enough to remain viable for a while longer.

    I think BBRY's outlook is grim. Various engineering departments, management and top execs all seem to be on different planets. I think they put so much faith into BB10 and Cascades until they realized it was beyond their ability to execute properly.

    tl;dr I think they're either so incompetent they didn't know what their own software was capable of, or they just bloody lied to get rid of PBs.
    08-02-13 07:19 AM
  17. 9Jer99's Avatar
    He is starting a new knitting class and has no time to think about the Playbook.
    He never owned a Commodore 64 or understood what you can do with 8K of memory.
    He did however discern that hiring a few extra engineers would cut into his profit margin.
    He did do a very good job of dumping inventory. Thorny the car salesman........
    Robert Roger likes this.
    08-02-13 07:23 AM
  18. offyoutoddle's Avatar
    Personally I don't believe a word from Thor's mouth now. I moved on to a Surface RT since a proper bridge is no more, thus any value add the playbook had for me is long gone. Commitment to developing it further has officially been announced to be zero - the well has run dry here. At least the surface RT, despite its bad press is seeing almost weekly updates, and is proving to be a far more productive workhorse tablet than the playbook ever came close to being. Painful truth is the playbook will never be more than it was now - accept that and the ride will get easier. It's just a shame with Bridge being nobbled its actually LESS than it was as far as myself and any z10 or q10 owners may be finding. Suggest people take anything Thor has said about that as a disposable comment with no intent behind it to get out of an awkward question when he was put on the spot - avoid raising your expectations is best. Enjoy your playbook as it was as best as you can, or move on, but don't hope for anything more on it, and forget any goodwill gestures based on what Thor said - he never kept the promise to give it BB10, and that comment was not even close to any kind of promise. Time to move on and remember fondly any productivity you had from this ahead of its time, but badly supported product is my advice to all to be honest, and don't bank on them owing you anything. or as Dr Seuss once put it “Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.”
    FF22 and WeAreNotAlone like this.
    08-02-13 09:15 AM
  19. anon(4275744)'s Avatar
    Well it's most likely i'm in a minority here.

    But i don't really want any compensation from Blackberry, I'm actually happy with my device.
    You may be in a minority here, but there are many of us "out there " that agree with you.
    We are very happy with our Playbooks to!
    No one I know bought it as an "investment" or for its possible future use. After all, it is an consumer electronics device. They have obsolescence built in.

    From Zed to U via CB10
    LMZR, lotuslanderz and MobileZen like this.
    08-02-13 01:23 PM
  20. WeAreNotAlone's Avatar
    Well it's most likely i'm in a minority here.

    But i don't really want any compensation from Blackberry, I'm actually happy with my device.
    You may be in a minority here, but there are many of us "out there " that agree with you.
    We are very happy with our Playbooks to!

    From Zed to U via CB10
    Glad to hear your happy with your PlayBook(s). You are indeed a member of a small knit club. As a consumer device it was a FLOP as you probably know. If you're happy with it, I'm happy for you.
    (Really.)

    No one I know bought it as an "investment" or for its possible future use. After all, it is an consumer electronics device. They have obsolescence built in.
    "Investment" = No , we are not talking about rare metals here, etc.
    "Possible future use"=

    Depends WHEN you bought it. If you bought AFTER the announcements by TOP RANKING SENIOR OFFICIALS that made statements the device would get BB10 and your purchasing decision was based upon that, "Possible future use" does come into play. After all you have the word of "BlackBerry" a "Professional" grade company, not some fly by night company that sells stuff with no serial numbers on their stuff selling out of unmarked trucks saying it's going to happen, not a third party or "rumor" site saying it might happen.

    Question: Explain to me "why" all of the sudden PlayBooks started suddenly selling well?.

    If it has not been for the statements made by BlackBerry BB10 with all that entails was on the horizon, those thousands upon thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands of previously dead stocks of PlayBooks that had been sitting languishing in warehouses and retailers hands for the past 12-18 months UNSOLD would STILL be sitting in warehouses right now, as it relates to *consumer sales.

    .
    FF22 likes this.
    08-03-13 02:32 AM
  21. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    Thor is going to clear out his warehouse by sending out free playbook to each previous and current owners.
    08-03-13 07:13 AM
  22. arvind1983's Avatar
    Thor is going to clear out his warehouse by sending out free playbook to each previous and current owners.
    He would have already cleared it and laughing at the people who bought the PB thinking it will receive BB10.
    08-03-13 09:39 AM
  23. 9Jer99's Avatar
    The only thing Thorny's gonna clear out is the Klingons circling around Uranus.
    Maybe that why he's called a 'turncoat'.
    08-03-13 09:55 AM
  24. unlocked4u's Avatar
    Wow so many people defending Thor and BlackBerry when they clearly screwed customers over.

    Damn Blackberry fanboys are the worst.

    Sent from my SGH-I717R using CB Forums mobile app
    08-03-13 10:00 AM
  25. anon(4275744)'s Avatar
    Wow so many people defending Thor and BlackBerry when they clearly screwed customers over.

    Damn Blackberry fanboys are the worst.

    Sent from my SGH-I717R using CB Forums mobile app
    No. We just aren't all teary eyed and emotional over a tablet or phone. We are objective. Do they work for what we bought them for? Yes. That's it. Nothing more.

    From Zed to U via CB10
    MasterOfBinary likes this.
    08-03-13 02:14 PM
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