09-02-15 08:04 AM
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  1. RLTurn77's Avatar
    Most of the companies you listed are on the major decline as well (some in a much worse position than BB)... Hope you like names like Xiaomi/Huawei/etc because in the near futrue most of those OEMs will be gone.
    This is another good point. Even with BlackBerry possibly going full Android, they will not just become another struggling Android manufacturer as there is just so much more to BlackBerry than just devices!

    Posted via CB10
    08-27-15 05:57 PM
  2. RLTurn77's Avatar
    From what I understand you sold your shares of BlackBerry. And did so right before the company plans on releasing a produxct that people on android forums are wanting to buy? No offence but it was a mistake.

    Posted via CB10
    There is another very long thread on BlackBerry stock and its performance. Is BlackBerry very undervalued? Yes. If the stock shoots back up to double digits tomorrow will I be frustrated? Absolutely not.

    I don't know about all of this demand some speak of regarding the Slider. I believe it would be much higher if BlackBerry released a simple all-touch version using the extra keyboard space for a bigger battery as well as possibly thinning and refining the device a bit. The majority of consumers don't want a PKB.

    BlackBerry sales could still quadruple... their market share is abysmal. I have made money overall in BlackBerry and I've already put enough personal information out regarding shares I've owned. Do I think BlackBerry is a really good opportunity for a buy and hold value investment? Absolutely, but my current financial situation differs from others.

    Having the cash, in my current situation, was no mistake. I fully expected BlackBerry to be at $20/share by now if you asked me what I thought last year. Maybe it will be by the end of the year. I still think BlackBerry's value is not reflected by the current price and I fully expect it to rise significantly.

    I agree with this, but not based on the release of an Android slider.

    Posted via CB10
    08-27-15 06:12 PM
  3. RLTurn77's Avatar
    Hello,

    I share many of the same thoughts as the OP. However, I DID go ahead and get a Passport SE (from Z10), and am happy so far.
    Like another poster mentioned, I came to Blackberry as a Palm refugee, following a misguided detour into Android-Land.

    I really want Blackberry to do well, but just because something is labeled Blackberry while running Android doesn't have me convinced.
    I honestly can't see any possible reason that a Blackberry fan who is currently using BB10 would want to move to Android. I also think this is one of the worst decisions I've heard of from Blackberry--if in fact this is what is happening.

    I've seen many people talk about marketing and Blackberry's utter failure in that arena. I have to laugh, because self-styled "Tech marketing experts" told me I knew nothing about marketing for suggesting that this was a Prerequisite for Blackberry's comeback (prior to BB10 Release), and well here we are. Reality has proven them wrong.

    I suspect I'm going to be proven right about Blackberry's Android Slider (if that is what rumors indicate), because I think for most people, it is the worst of all worlds, and is targeting an even smaller market than Current Blackberry users. Who know--maybe people will buy what's put in front of them, but of course...it has to be put in front of them. How do you do that?

    Oh right--back to the Marketing, which not only is Blackberry NOT doing--they're doing the opposite, providing ZERO information--even to their die-hard fans. Their silence is doing the exactly opposite, and feeding doom and gloom feelings. And for a good reason.

    Mr. Chen may or may not be a good businessman (time will tell) in regards to his leadership at Blackberry, but he is doing nothing to bolster confidence.

    I literally don't know how a company can do such a pathetically poor job at presenting itself so consistently as Blackberry has over the past several years. Just abysmal.

    BB10 is a great product, which has been squandered and left to slowly die it seems. That's bad business plain and simple. So, I don't blame anyone for being disillusioned.

    KAM
    Thanks for contributing! Definitely an interesting take on the current situation. If I was still using a Z series device, hell yeah I'd have purchased the bundle on August 4th when CrackBerry announced it. The Passport is so unique as is the OS. The Passport remains the most innovative device on the market in my opinion.

    I'm not holding my breath, but would love to see some more significant updates. For those that say the device will work fine for years... this is true, but the runtime may or may not be updated making the Android compatibility slowly dwindle.

    At this point, I was hoping we'd have already received an updated OS with the runtime improved. This is looking less likely though. The Android apps I do use are not critical so I will continue using my BlackBerry devices on 10.3 if that's all there will be (major assumption).

    Marketing + BlackBerry = failure... or at least it has in the past. BlackBerry will receive much needed free advertising from reviews and articles of what will be perceived as their "hail mary" into Android land so maybe that will help. I can already see the usual suspects shading BlackBerry regardless of how good the slider actually may be.

    Remember, there is an entirely new management team as well. Chen has been very conservative with spending any of the cash hoard and I do not see this changing substantially. If the rumors of all four major US carriers supporting this device are true, there might be some help there.

    I'm not sure if Chen will just change strategy and go consumer. As already stated, this would require some humility and I'm not sure it's even necessary. Chen has been great at cutting costs and going Android is just another way to cut costs. BlackBerry is now cross-platform with almost everything which means they have to support Android anyway. Why not cut more costs in developing BB10 and just run Android on your hardware?

    I don't agree with this because I am emotionally tied a bit to the OS. What seems confusing is the initial end to end security emphasis with dedication to BlackBerry 10 as well as not building an Android device unless it is secure. How is this going to be accomplished? Google obtains their revenue from user data.

    I do hope it is implemented well. We have such great features with BlackBerry Blend and so on. I'm finding it difficult watching BlackBerry essentially hand over their hardware to Google.

    I found this quote from you quite telling and strongly agree... "I literally don't know how a company can do such a pathetically poor job at presenting itself so consistently as Blackberry has over the past several years."

    Posted via CB10
    KAM1138 likes this.
    08-27-15 06:42 PM
  4. RLTurn77's Avatar
    BB10 is going to continue to be supported. That's safe to say. So far as that goes, legacy BBOS continues to be supported to this day, though I'm skeptical that carriers will support BIS indefinitely.
    Yes, there are very important people using BB10. The runtime is still in question and as you wrote, why would Google have any interest in helping BlackBerry?

    People still use Curves and Bolds as many of us would continue to use our Qs, Zs, Classics, Passports, etc. If BlackBerry did essentially drop BB10 for Android, BB10 would still be supported just not in the way many of us would like. As for BIS, that remains a strain on carriers and will eventually see its end. I'm in agreement there.

    I'd question what would you consider enough support? Just maintaining BB10 or actually having improvements. Look at the OS on the just launched Z10 and look at what we have now. BlackBerry is very capable and a strong innovator. This is what really bothers me! The talent is there.

    Posted via CB10
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    08-27-15 07:00 PM
  5. RLTurn77's Avatar
    Thank you for your astute original post. It was long but interesting and easy reading because it was well-written with proper paragraphing. I hate posts that are lengthy without proper paragraph separation.

    Just this morning, I was seriously considering cancelling my order of the Passport SE at CrackBerry's shop. The reasons were as you pointed out in your post. I do not currently own a Passport and was thinking of waiting it out until the air was cleared about BB10 and the hardware. I had not yet read your post and what prompted me to consider cancelling was that the Amazon phone was on sale for $130.00 with one year of Prime membership thrown in. I am quite invested in the Amazon ecosystem. Enjoying the Echo. Since I need a new phone to replace my old BlackBerry, I thought this would be a great temporary phone at a great price (effectively $31.00) while I wait on the Passport SE.

    Then, I received the email today informing me that the Passport had shipped. Oh well, at least it makes the rest of my day a little easier...no need for further contemplation on the issue. I am quite sure I will be happy with the Passport SE. When I had not received any word about it shipping last week, I toyed with the idea of cancelling it and waiting to see what developed at BlackBerry and what deals there might be during Thanksgiving and Christmas sales days.

    I went to an AT&T store (Passport is hard to find in an AT&T store) and played around with one there. That was the first time I saw and handled a Passport. Previously, I only had seen pictures of the phone. I was more impressed with it than ever before! The pictures I had seen and the reviews about its "humongous" size had led me to think that it was considerably bigger than it actually was. I was very pleasantly surprised at its size. It fit easily in my shirt pocket with plenty of room to spare.

    I guess I was sold on the phone then and cast away thoughts about cancelling the order until early this morning when I saw the sale on the Amazon phone. Anyway, no regrets that I will not be able to cancel as I am quite sure it will serve me well. It will serve BlackBerry well too as I intend to show it off to friends and relatives who are so attached to their phones bearing the logo of the fruit that Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat.
    Thank you for the kind words and contribution. I did try to make the original post easy to read as I slowly went into rant mode and realized it was going to be a long one that not many were going to like.

    You definitely should have no regrets. I'm sure the Silver Edition Passport is an amazing device. The original is amazing. You really have a computer, tablet, and phone in one. I use my Passport for everything. The battery life is phenomenal. You will not be disappointed.

    The current OS has also been flawless so enjoy the device. I've been lucky enough to have enjoyed the Passport for almost a year now; crazy it's been that long already! Not sure how "old" your "old" BlackBerry is, but you should thoroughly enjoy the SE Passport :-)

    Posted via CB10
    08-27-15 07:09 PM
  6. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    I enjoy this thread because most of the people on here aren't sure of anything. We still have our opinions but we aren't asserting them as facts without foundation.

    The truth is, we're all a bit uneasy about the future of BB10 and the mix of optimism and doubt is an interesting contrast. I have to lean towards optimism in that releasing an Android device doesn't mean that they are abandoning their own OS. It just means that they are trying to reach other areas of the market. They were already planning on releasing their suite of BB10 features to Android so really, the device isn't going to cost them much of an investment in terms of development - it's work they would have had to do anyway regardless of if they had their own name on an Android powered device.

    I really don't see them giving up on BB10 for a long while yet. Most of their existing customers are users because of the OS capabilities, not the hardware. I really think that the Android experiment is neither a diversion nor a new path but actually an addition to their current offering. Of course, I could be wrong. But BlackBerry knows that they have a bunch of loyal users and I don't think that they would forsake all of us. It will be an interesting time ahead, that much is sure.
    RLTurn77 and Thunderbuck like this.
    08-27-15 07:11 PM
  7. RLTurn77's Avatar
    I have no way of proving how widespread this is, but it seems that when people are shown what BB10 can do, they are intrigued. If an Android based phone running a BB10-like skin is good enough, that might grab some people, but that seems backwards to me--building an expensive home on a weak foundation.

    BB10 is the Gem and they're grinding it up an sprinkling it on a mudball. Even if it looks shiny to begin with, its still mud underneath.

    And devices--right. The passport has some great features on it, but it is a bit of a tough sell. I don't have anything against the Classic, but it seems like a step backwards to me. Why not try the touch-sensitive keyboard on a phone like that instead--wean people off the track pad, while providing the same (or better) functionality.

    I honestly don't know what they're hoping to accomplish with an Android based device, and they're not sharing their thoughts on it.

    KAM
    This. My good friend with the S6 Active may take me up on my offer to try one of my BB10s since we are both on AT&T now. He's amazed at the stock capabilities of BlackBerry 10. He has always owned the Galaxy series since we've met. It will be an interesting experiment, but might be for nothing at this point.

    I'm holding John Chen to his statement that he would not build an Android unless it is secure. I still agree with you that it seems backwards. When we first heard of the cross-platform BlackBerry suite it was under the impression that it would be sold to Android and iOS customers and that BlackBerry 10 would remain. That was back when we actually had a roadmap though.

    I have told my friend about the upcoming slider running Android and he did seem truly interested. His last few devices from Samsung have been from the Active line and he is struggling with using a device that isn't waterproof and dust/dirt proof. Uses it naked with a tempered glass screen protector and it is solidly built.

    When you are running Android, you are now competing with many more manufacturers with many options. Will the BlackBerry suite and a keyboard be enough differentiation or will the keyboard be a turnoff?

    Anecdotal evidence from my friend is that he'd consider the slider, but would just use the virtual keyboard. I'm not sure how the market will respond. If the Passport launched as a new flagship running a secured Android with high specs and the innovation of the form factor and touch sensitive keyboard, would that have been better?

    The media jumped all over the Passport because of form factor. Maybe with Android the press would have been more positive rather than great device, but no apps. Not sure yet. It does seem that Chen is repairing burned carrier relationships.

    Your original point though of putting some BB10 features on a device running Android does seem backwards. Would have been nice if we could have BB10 as the operating system with Google Play Services and the official Play Store added. That would resolve all of this. Much easier said than done though.

    Posted via CB10
    KAM1138 likes this.
    08-27-15 07:31 PM
  8. RLTurn77's Avatar
    I'm on the fence about ordering the Passport SE. It will be my first Blackberry phone and as someone who has been an admirer of the brand--admittedly from the sidelines--i'd like to get an opinion on whether or not the risk will reap great rewards. As a brand who's future hangs in the balance, would buying a Blackberry device, and a first one at that be a wise choice? I don't use my phone fir anything but Instagram, youtube, and facebook. And aside from music, which i'll be uploading to the phone myself, there really isn't much else i'll use it for aside from productivity since i'll be starting university in September.
    I think the Silver Edition Passport would be an excellent device for your needs. That's not just coming from being a "fanboy", but based on your needs. The Passport is a productivity powerhouse. I actually wish I was using this device when I went back to school a few years back.

    The OS is much more mature now and it really is a phenomenal device. I'd be cautious on pricing. The device originally came with $130 in free accessories and now has 10% off coupon codes readily available. It is essentially an original Passport in a new shell. It has some great improvements, but it does not change that.

    If I were to purchase a Passport now, it would be the Silver Edition. Note, you can currently get the 10% discount and it'll likely go on sale again. BlackBerry's fiscal quarter ends in August hence the shopblackberry sale until the end of the month.

    Also, with Android rumors, there may be bargains come the holidays so not sure if you'd want to wait. It's really your decision to make based on your needs, wants, and disposable income. Good luck with your decision! :-)

    Posted via CB10
    08-27-15 08:03 PM
  9. papped's Avatar
    You are going to see a lot of used devices for sale in the coming months... If you go that route you could save a lot of money.
    08-27-15 08:10 PM
  10. ppeters914's Avatar
    I thought it was a nice well thought out read. I'm kind of in the same boat. I've wanted a Passport for quite a while, almost jumped on the Silver then realized I'm not sure where BlackBerry is going. After some thinking I've decided to sit tight until the slider comes out and make a choice then.

    Spreading the love with my Z10
    Ditto....which, unfortunately is not a good business plan for BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10 / AT&T /Z10 STL100-3 /10.3.2.2239
    RLTurn77 likes this.
    08-27-15 11:17 PM
  11. amathtools's Avatar
    I agree with the OP. I share some of the same sentiments . However, I bought SE, because this maybe the LAST true great BlackBerry. If the changes come, and bb10 is dead, I at least have this last piece of beautiful hardware! I will use this until I can't use it anymore. In hindsight, I may have to stockpile a few!

    Posted via CB10
    RLTurn77 likes this.
    08-27-15 11:31 PM
  12. RLTurn77's Avatar
    I agree with the OP. I share some of the same sentiments . However, I bought SE, because this maybe the LAST true great BlackBerry. If the changes come, and bb10 is dead, I at least have this last piece of beautiful hardware! I will use this until I can't use it anymore. In hindsight, I may have to stockpile a few!

    Posted via CB10
    This actually crossed my mind. I may just wait until the holidays and pick one up on sale in a few months. I'm assuming, if BlackBerry is smart, this slider device will have already launched. If it's truly all Android, I'm wondering if they'll be allowed to sell the inventory of BlackBerry 10 devices alongside their Android without removing the runtime or if there will be an "update" that removes the runtime.

    I am already stockpiled so my worst fear is a mandatory update similar to the last one that started on its own even with the option toggled off that removes the runtime. Doubtful, maybe I've thought too much about this. So many different scenarios that could play out. I really do hope that we get another good BB10 update even if it could possibly be the last major update. Was hoping some of the few posters here that have inside information would have hinted at 10.4 or something similar.

    Posted via CB10
    08-28-15 12:01 AM
  13. STV0726's Avatar
    Please don't get your hopes up. BB Android isn't going to be BB10.
    It's also probably going to not be anything but an EOL memory swept under the carpet with no comment from the horse's mouth in no time at all after its release...kinda like that little thing called present-day BlackBerry 10 is right now.

    --STV falling from grace with his Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2339
    08-28-15 03:02 AM
  14. richrockx's Avatar
    Why nobody cares

    Z10 via CB10
    08-28-15 05:09 AM
  15. anon(870071)'s Avatar
    No way did I have buyers remorse... especially since I never bought the Silver Edition to begin with. I placed a pre-order through ShopCB and eventually cancelled the order as I couldn't justify it based on the devices I currently am using, which include both a black and red Passport, and my original post.

    You definitely misunderstood my post as I did not need justification for anything. There was no refund. Actually, if it ended up shipping and I wasn't able to cancel, I'd be pretty damn happy with it based on the posts here. It seems like a very nice, refined Passport. I'll likely pick one up on sale down the line.

    I'm running the Z10, Z30, and the Passport currently and do not have buyers remorse on any. I really love them all for different reasons. Is it a bit much? Probably, but I enjoy them and life is short!

    Posted via CB10
    Sorry not a refund but rather an order cancellation. I would just get it and add it to your collection, presumbly you are using a orignal Passport.

    Passport SQW100-1/10.3.2.2252 Rogers Wireless Posted via CB
    08-28-15 06:36 AM
  16. RLTurn77's Avatar
    Why nobody cares

    Z10 via CB10
    Thank you for this well thought out, insightful response :-)

    Posted via CB10
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    08-28-15 05:13 PM
  17. leglace1's Avatar
    It is not like me to to rant but:

    I am getting tired of people blaming BB10 for the lack of sales. The reason is so damn elementary that it annoys me. I don't care what business you run. In the technology field, you have to advertise big time to play with the big boys. Blackberry have circumvented this since they had a failed marketing campaign. Well that was a failure of their marketing team, not for marketing. They make great hardware but they lose all that R&D because nobody knows anything about it.

    Secondly, get with the major app developers that are missing and write a damn check. Everybody has a price. Once they get enough growth, the major apps would be happy to maintain apps for BlackBerry. Take the money they spent on creating a BlackBerry Android OS and use that.

    But seriously, it does not matter if BlackBerry has iOS or Android OS. Nobody will know about it. They need a strong marketing campaign. The SE is a perfect device to market. BB10 is the best OS, but it never met is potential because app developers did not see enough subscribers.

    Posted via CB10
    08-28-15 07:05 PM
  18. lift's Avatar
    It is not like me to to rant but:

    I am getting tired of people blaming BB10 for the lack of sales. The reason is so damn elementary that it annoys me. I don't care what business you run. In the technology field, you have to advertise big time to play with the big boys. Blackberry have circumvented this since they had a failed marketing campaign. Well that was a failure of their marketing team, not for marketing. They make great hardware but they lose all that R&D because nobody knows anything about it.

    Secondly, get with the major app developers that are missing and write a damn check. Everybody has a price. Once they get enough growth, the major apps would be happy to maintain apps for BlackBerry. Take the money they spent on creating a BlackBerry Android OS and use that.

    But seriously, it does not matter if BlackBerry has iOS or Android OS. Nobody will know about it. They need a strong marketing campaign. The SE is a perfect device to market. BB10 is the best OS, but it never met is potential because app developers did not see enough subscribers.

    Posted via CB10
    Great rant and spot on. Thanks.
    08-28-15 07:59 PM
  19. Zeratul57's Avatar
    Please show any proof that BlackBerry is continuing to develop and improve BB10 with new features and framework updates. The framework that BlackBerry runs on is EOL.
    Check the latest Chen interview. Looks like BB10 is evolving. Seamless droid support soon. Im not a dev but I would expect new rules and tools when they crack it.
    08-28-15 09:25 PM
  20. dmateo's Avatar
    Is everyone forgetting why they purchased a bb10 device in the first place? They're awesome, secure, efficient and different. Sorry I won't replace my passport if Android comes out on bb devices. It defeats the purpose if owning a crackberry!

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    lift, Zeratul57, RLTurn77 and 1 others like this.
    08-28-15 10:44 PM
  21. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    It is not like me to to rant but:

    I am getting tired of people blaming BB10 for the lack of sales. The reason is so damn elementary that it annoys me. I don't care what business you run. In the technology field, you have to advertise big time to play with the big boys. Blackberry have circumvented this since they had a failed marketing campaign. Well that was a failure of their marketing team, not for marketing. They make great hardware but they lose all that R&D because nobody knows anything about it.

    Secondly, get with the major app developers that are missing and write a damn check. Everybody has a price. Once they get enough growth, the major apps would be happy to maintain apps for BlackBerry. Take the money they spent on creating a BlackBerry Android OS and use that.

    But seriously, it does not matter if BlackBerry has iOS or Android OS. Nobody will know about it. They need a strong marketing campaign. The SE is a perfect device to market. BB10 is the best OS, but it never met is potential because app developers did not see enough subscribers.

    Posted via CB10
    So spot on... so simple... and so amazing how the BlackBerry board of directors keeps putting up with 1d10t CEO's who can't figure this out!

    Posted via CB10
    08-29-15 12:45 AM
  22. CyberMan2013's Avatar
    If people didn't know that the new BlackBerry 10 phones were different from the old BBOS phones, then how are they gonna know that the new BlackBerry Android phones are any different from the BlackBerry 10 phones that they didn't knew were different and also the BlackBerry OS phones that they consider old and obsolete?

    Posted via CB10
    bodjor and RLTurn77 like this.
    08-29-15 07:41 AM
  23. Fred Tam's Avatar
    great read.

    i've actually been following this thread for a good couple days as i was in the opposite end and had ordered the Passport SE yesterday.

    Just my thoughts; initially i bought a Classic and took a risk to try BB10. it was surprisingly useful and the keyboard was, imo, much better to type on than tapping on the screen instead. I also don't play any games on my phone, i have a tablet for that, so it was a perfect fit at the time.

    I feel like the only reason i'm actually not cancelling my order was because i know what i am jumping into. For myself, i understand what i am buying, and i'm prepared not to get super drastic updates in the future. For me, as long as Blackberry does it's occasional software updates, i'm good.

    Unfortunately a lot of people don't even know what the Blackberry offers, and I can totally understand why Berry fan users are on the fence with a PKB experience slider running on Android coming along very soon. I actually saw all the photos just now and I must say, I'm actually more certain I made the right choice by purchasing the SE! I just know that if I wanted the best experience on Android, I would go full touchscreen (unless they can make it really integrated with Google) so for now, i'm going to stick with a PKB on a Blackberry running BB10.

    Hopefully that wasn't too confusing, I just wanted to post my thoughts. And a nice thank you to OP for an insightful read. (I always feel Blackberry forums had more sophisticated people for some reason )
    08-29-15 10:04 AM
  24. arlindo101's Avatar
    Agree 100% with you.
    Last edited by arlindo101; 03-13-16 at 11:54 AM.
    RLTurn77, lift and KAM1138 like this.
    08-29-15 08:25 PM
  25. aj042599's Avatar
    I received my SE Passport two weeks ago and returned it yesterday. I came from an Android device and a Z10 before that. I just could not deal with the work arounds of installing apps like Uber and other Google apps that I use for work. I love BB10's hub and the PKB of the Passport and all the other things that make BB10 unique. I became frustrated and am now relying on rumors of a Passport Android device. Does this make me a sellout? Nope. I like many others am tired of having to work around sideloading and spending countless hours of research on how to install a simple app that comes preloaded on an iPhone or Android device. Is Android as secure as BB10? Nope...but I'll take the risk. Facebook for example sucks on BB10. Seems like a simple fix keeping it updated but it's pretty much been abandoned. I can't stand the mobile version and why should I have to install a Jellybean version through Cobalt's work around just to get a working version. I could go on but won't. I for one am looking forward to an Android Passport.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Last edited by aj042599; 08-29-15 at 11:03 PM.
    W1ck3D86, DINGSTER1 and RLTurn77 like this.
    08-29-15 08:51 PM
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