09-02-15 08:04 AM
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  1. RLTurn77's Avatar
    Was unsure if I wanted to really open this can of worms, but it's already out there. John Chen is silent. There are Passports running Android, the slider appears to be an Android device with a BlackBerry skin.

    I am a true and loyal supporter of BlackBerry. Have moved from a Verizon Z10 to a Verizon Z30 to an unlocked Z10 then unlocked Z30 and an unlocked black and red Passport. I'm a tech fanatic, but have become a BB10 fanatic. I even opened an account with some spare money to purchase BlackBerry stock because I believed in John Chen and the management team he brought with him.

    I recently sold my shares at a small loss; not at current levels, but a loss nonetheless. I've actually been contemplating re-purchasing bbry because it trades at almost cash value (not including debt, etc.). Anyway, this is not about the stock.

    I believed that John Chen's focus on software and enterprise was a good strategy, but didn't realize it would come at the expense it has... especially to hardware. BlackBerry continues to shrink and there is complete silence from the company.

    From an outside perspective, BlackBerry appears to be in another hail mary position with the release of Android. I could have it all wrong, but perception is what it is. If anyone told me the stock would be $6.XX today I would be dead hysterically laughing.

    I'm conflicted with the company as they have cash and are using it buying up strategic companies as well as forming partnerships and continuing to add to their cash pile. I then look back at when Chen was hired and almost immediately removed music and videos from BlackBerry World. Later, BlackBerry basically told developers to build for Amazon's app store and forget about native apps.

    John Chen initially was very blunt that BlackBerry handsets were the key to end to end security as well as being iconic. He's not saying that anymore, has said that eventually economics take over, and Android is almost certain on the slider now. Whether there is a BlackBerry variant or not is yet to be seen as is the implementation (runtime, no runtime?).

    The silence is deafening. The stock is suffering which is another indication of perception. Without making this post entirely too long for those that will likely have nothing positive to contribute anyway... it seems that BlackBerry is very confused and that BB10 is slowly being dismantled.

    This pains me as I love the OS and so much went into the development and got us to where we are now with 10.3. I understand, from a company perspective, going after 80% high margin software. I now believe that Chen and team really underestimated the impact and importance of BlackBerry 10 which, as of last quarter, still account for 40% of revenue.

    Software is not picking up as fast as hoped, BBM monetization is not either. Yes, I read the recent article on BBM growth, but am going by actual earnings and subsequent conference call. BlackBerry is now forced to focus on increasing handset sales because they couldn't even reach their very attainable goal of 10 million handsets per year.

    The Passport and Classic were great entries. Looking back at the initial consumer launch, the Z10 sold well for BlackBerry (in today's terms) yet there was no true upgrade. Many would agree that a slab phone with Passport like specs may have encouraged many to stay with BB10. My sister has a Z30 and has no upgrade path. I converted my entire immediate family to BB10.

    With the uncertainty surrounding BlackBerry 10 and the fact that I do own multiple devices, why purchase another Passport in a new shell? If, and it is a big if, as BlackBerry still "remains committed to BlackBerry 10", they do go full Android, I will likely run my BB10s to the ground then decide on another OS.

    I don't want another Android. This is what led me to BlackBerry in the first place and I happened to become way too passionate about the company. I'd have to really think about what OS I'd prefer and if it was Android, do I want a stock Android? The highest specs? A certain manufacturer? I've tried Android and iOS and dislike both. Have not tried Windows, but a friend says "they suck". He'd likely have said the same though about BlackBerry if it wasn't for me educating him though.

    All in all as a fan, a possible shareholder, and just someone that really wants BlackBerry to succeed, we've been left with absolutely no clarity. Take a look at the last 3 or so months of the stock performance as well as continued short interest and it is really telling. Are these bargain prices or is BlackBerry in another spot of restructuring? It's hard to tell.

    I will say that I already own a Passport and I was absolutely praying to win the CrackBerry contest as I really believe the Silver Edition Passport is the best device on the market. The innovation combined with the improvements made are superb. Right now, I just can't justify purchasing from BlackBerry until there is some clarification on what is going on within the company.

    Remember, these Android rumors started well before earnings months ago and I thought that they would be addressed at that time. I'm dedicated to BB10 as an operating system and if BlackBerry goes all Android I may or may not stay, but I'd wish them the best of luck. I tend to root for the underdog anyway. I just look back and feel like it was almost intentional to see the downfall of BB10.

    If you've read through all of this hopefully my point is able to be deciphered lol. I love BlackBerry and do wish them the best of luck, just questioning what is going on at the moment. And, for the record, I would like to add that I just banged this post out on my flawless Passport!

    Posted via CB10
    TylerXIII, sesp9, lift and 49 others like this.
    08-25-15 07:22 PM
  2. jamesharmeling's Avatar
    Well, that was a very intensive read. Well thought out and I definitely respect your thoughts and opinions. The fact that I simply said "That new SE looks cool, I think I'll buy it" makes me feel like I just made a purchase because I can.....and because I'm a BlackBerryaholic who can't get enough. BlackBerry is my tech crack and I hit that stuff way too often. Oh well, if I had a potato I'd leave it here, but I don't.

    BlackBerryaholic by choice.
    08-25-15 07:27 PM
  3. RLTurn77's Avatar
    Well, that was a very intensive read. Well thought out and I definitely respect your thoughts and opinions. The fact that I simply said "That new SE looks cool, I think I'll buy it" makes me feel like I just made a purchase because I can.....and because I'm a BlackBerryaholic who can't get enough. BlackBerry is my tech crack and I hit that stuff way too often. Oh well, if I had a potato I'd leave it here, but I don't.

    BlackBerryaholic by choice.
    Thanks. I appreciate you actually reading. I truly expected the first comment to be "too long... troll, blah blah". I definitely understand those that purchased it, but I do already have the original Passport in both black and a backup in red so I understand BlackBerry being like tech crack lol.

    Normally, I'd have hopped right on this. It appears to be a great device. I'm hoping through all of that, my reasoning for being hesitant showed. Been holding back my thoughts on all of this and I guess I just wanted to express how conflicted I feel with BlackBerry right now.

    Posted via CB10
    08-25-15 07:39 PM
  4. johnm137's Avatar
    I am completely agree with OP, and not buying SE because I am not sure what BlackBerry is doing next and if they are committed to develop BB10. I will go with Window phone if there is no BB10 phone available and I have started browsing wpcentral.com to get used to Windows phone.
    08-25-15 07:44 PM
  5. CecilTsunami's Avatar
    I feel the same. I love my Passport. I really wanted the slider, but now with the Android stuff looming, lack of any clear path of BB10, I think I will just sit with my Passport and watch.

    I have an Android tablet, man do I not like that OS. Not a fan of Apple either. Not sure what my next device will be. I will miss this OS if it disappears for sure.

    Posted via CB10
    08-25-15 07:45 PM
  6. igotberryfever's Avatar
    I owned an unlocked and a AT&T Passport but the Silver feels better in the hand and gets tons of complements.
    Now for you article, that was a great read. I agree with all that you said. However I will continue with my SE and if the slider is nice I'll have one too. I had the 6Edge and there was things I loved about it but things I hated so if BlackBerry does the BlackBerry experience right I'm in!

    Thanks

    Posted via CB10
    j21jam6 and RLTurn77 like this.
    08-25-15 07:48 PM
  7. jamesharmeling's Avatar
    I'm going down with the ship if it comes to it. I'll be the last guy standing there on the deck trying to type out that last BBM as the ship starts getting sucked into the whirlpool of death. I've never owned any other brand of smartphone and wouldn't know what to do if I had to choose another. So for now, I'm loving this SE and I'm looking forward to seeing what's coming. If it's a BlackBerry Android, I'll give it a go.....but I hope it doesn't come to that.

    BlackBerryaholic by choice.
    08-25-15 07:52 PM
  8. RLTurn77's Avatar
    I'm relieved that the initial comments have been favorable! Was truly expecting to be bashed as I typed that out. I will hold on to all of my BB10s and sit on the sidelines as well until we have some clarity.

    May end up using them all until they're dead depending on the future of BB10. I really appreciate everything that went into this operating system and hope BlackBerry is working on its future which does not include "maintenance mode" or "EOL".

    I have also thought Windows 10 may be better suited for us that love BB10, but really don't know much about Windows OS. Just know that I've tried both Android and iOS and am not a fan of either.

    Posted via CB10
    08-25-15 07:54 PM
  9. duckshooter's Avatar
    I thought it was a nice well thought out read. I'm kind of in the same boat. I've wanted a Passport for quite a while, almost jumped on the Silver then realized I'm not sure where BlackBerry is going. After some thinking I've decided to sit tight until the slider comes out and make a choice then.

    Spreading the love with my Z10
    RLTurn77 likes this.
    08-25-15 07:58 PM
  10. RLTurn77's Avatar
    I owned an unlocked and a AT&T Passport but the Silver feels better in the hand and gets tons of complements.
    Now for you article, that was a great read. I agree with all that you said. However I will continue with my SE and if the slider is nice I'll have one too. I had the 6Edge and there was things I loved about it but things I hated so if BlackBerry does the BlackBerry experience right I'm in!

    Thanks

    Posted via CB10
    I can appreciate the S6 in the S6 Active form. It has form and function even running Android. That's what my good friend has now. Have held the S6 and S6 Edge and both feel very delicate and I'm not at all sold on the curved screen. I guess a case would make them feel less delicate and more sturdy... sorry that's the only word that comes to mind at the moment when I played with the S6/Edge.

    Posted via CB10
    j21jam6 likes this.
    08-25-15 07:59 PM
  11. RLTurn77's Avatar
    I'm going down with the ship if it comes to it. I'll be the last guy standing there on the deck trying to type out that last BBM as the ship starts getting sucked into the whirlpool of death. I've never owned any other brand of smartphone and wouldn't know what to do if I had to choose another. So for now, I'm loving this SE and I'm looking forward to seeing what's coming. If it's a BlackBerry Android, I'll give it a go.....but I hope it doesn't come to that.

    BlackBerryaholic by choice.
    LOL at going down with the ship. BlackBerry is not in a dire position at the moment, but good on you to continue to support them regardless of OS :-)

    Posted via CB10
    08-25-15 08:01 PM
  12. RLTurn77's Avatar
    I thought it was a nice well thought out read. I'm kind of in the same boat. I've wanted a Passport for quite a while, almost jumped on the Silver then realized I'm not sure where BlackBerry is going. After some thinking I've decided to sit tight until the slider comes out and make a choice then.

    Spreading the love with my Z10
    Thank you. That's pretty much where I'm at in a nutshell. If I didn't already have a Passport I would wait it out at this point.

    Posted via CB10
    08-25-15 08:03 PM
  13. lift's Avatar
    I am completely agree with OP, and not buying SE because I am not sure what BlackBerry is doing next and if they are committed to develop BB10. I will go with Window phone if there is no BB10 phone available and I have started browsing wpcentral.com to get used to Windows phone.
    Same here. I will never use android as a daily driver and Apple is way too much money and the entire walled garden is not my cup of tea. Looks like it may be Windows phone for me too.
    Katika99 likes this.
    08-25-15 08:07 PM
  14. SaddleSC's Avatar
    I just bought an SE and I love it! The phone was just too cool looking not to buy and I am a huge fan of the BB 10 OS.

    Here is my theory...even if BlackBerry makes the transition entirely to Android at the end of the year, they will continue to support the legacy devices for at least a couple years. By then, there will be a new crop of devices to choose from.

    I am just going to enjoy BB 10 as long as I can and if the ship goes down in the future, I will worry about it then!



    Posted via CB10
    08-25-15 08:17 PM
  15. tw1g_007's Avatar
    I don't get where all this theory on BB10 going for good is coming from because the reasoning you guys keep presenting makes zero sense. Why should BlackBerry stop with BB10 updates? They have invested millions and made millions through government contracts so now BlackBerry just ups and leaves the OS to die? Right.

     вιaсĸвεггч PP Silver Edition via CB10 (AT&T OS 10.3.2.2339)
    08-25-15 08:50 PM
  16. dejanh's Avatar
    This was a good read. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and frankly speaking I do think you made the right decision. Beyond rehashing an old product as new, the real uncertainty is what (if any) BlackBerry 10 actually has. Without that answer, why buy yet another BlackBerry 10 handset and risk it becoming obsolete (support wise) in a few months.

    Whatever may come from BlackBerry next, I'll give them a chance. Let's see where they go. Hopefully BlackBerry 10 is not abandoned completely.

    Posted via CB10
    bodjor and RLTurn77 like this.
    08-25-15 09:02 PM
  17. dejanh's Avatar
    I don't get where all this theory on BB10 going for good is coming from because the reasoning you guys keep presenting makes zero sense. Why should BlackBerry stop with BB10 updates? They have invested millions and made millions through government contracts so now BlackBerry just ups and leaves the OS to die? Right.

     вιaсĸвεггч PP Silver Edition via CB10 (AT&T OS 10.3.2.2339)
    Stranger things have happened.

    Posted via CB10
    08-25-15 09:02 PM
  18. dbmalloy's Avatar
    To the OP... very concise and well thought out post... for me .. the OS really does not matter... I do not work for a security concious entity so whether the device runs BB10 or Android does not matter to me.. One the main draws for me is hardware build quality.,... What also matters is how BB impliments the features needed to make the OS a Blackberry.... to me it is ease of use.. productivity... and speed.... I sometimes think that those who knock comparable spec Android have never used one... My wife has an LG 3G... used it extensively... works great... equal or greater than current BB devices in some areas...lacking in others... multitasking especially... but in the end would have no issue switching... would miss some BB features but the world would not end... if BB does this right and in essence put out a stock Lollipop with all the BB goodies... what does it matter... if done right.,., you have all the goodies that BB is famous for.... with added benefit of Google Services and the whole Android library... whats not to like... sometimes we have to let go and try something new before we condemn it....
    08-25-15 09:07 PM
  19. j21jam6's Avatar
    Great thread.

    The Android rumors have impacted this site unlike anything I've witnessed in my entire time here. There has been a lot to digest. A lot to think about. Two statements by John Chen resonate more than anything else I've seen, heard, or read concerning BlackBerry and it's future handsets.

    - "We are committed to the BlackBerry 10 operating system".
    - "I'm not emotional about our phones".

    John Chen is steering the ship, so it's pertinent to listen to what he says and more important to watch what he does. Really, we've seen and heard enough to surmise what's ahead. So I, like most here have had to factor in "the future of BlackBerry" before purchasing the Silver Edition.

    What I finally concluded is I'm going to do what I always have done. Buy BlackBerry phones like the BlackBerry fanatic that I am. I ordered the Silver Edition just tonight. I decided that I will buy the Slider just as I always planned, regardless of what OS it has. Worst case scenario, it will give me a jump start on the new direction BlackBerry is headed. Nothing will ever truly replace my Passport. I'll use a Passport device as long as they continue to function for me in the capacity that I need. It's my dream device. I absolutely love the Original Version. The SE is a more refined version of the original. That's reason enough to buy it.

    Typically I don't think twice about buying BlackBerry products. I'm going to continue to do that. I can't say that I'm happy with the direction BlackBerry is obviously headed but I will get the Slider. Even under the very worst of circumstances my Passport will continue to work for at least the next few years. At this point, I'm good with that. Anything beyond that is gravy.

    Posted one-handed via Passport
    08-25-15 09:45 PM
  20. cbvinh's Avatar
    From what you wrote, you love BB10. You could care less about the company, BlackBerry. If BlackBerry were to sell off BB10 to Google and Google continued development, I'd say you'd move over to Google.

    As for complaints about the stock, it hasn't been a winner for a long time now - under Mike and Jim, Heins, or Chen. Chen didn't wreck it, especially of late, when the whole market has been tanking.

    When Chen came in, he probably felt that he could move 10 million units per year, especially after talking to his CEO buddies. That bet didn't work out. He could keep trying the same thing again, develop yet another BB10 device, but in the end, people will still criticize BB10 for the lack of apps. He could invest in making the Runtime better, but there's still the fundamental problem of not being 100% compatible - lack of Google Services. His consideration of Android is a reasonable response and conclusion to solving his hardware problem - just as much as Nokia making an Android phone despite spending years on Windows Phone to no avail. Nokia never had the chance to test their "we will save Nokia by releasing an Android phone". (Microsoft probably swept in to buy Nokia hardware to save themselves from embarrassment.) It looks like BlackBerry might get the chance to see if their Android addition might save their hardware.

    As for why BB10 development might have stopped... I can picture a scenario like this:

    Chen: We need to try building an Android phone and I want it done this year.
    R&D: We could do it, but we're short staffed, so we'd have to take everyone to do it.
    Chen: Fine. Do whatever it takes.
    R&D: We'll have to freeze BB10.
    Chen: Will the phones still work? Can we get back to it later?
    R&D: Yes.
    Chen: Do it.
    lift and DarkJoker33 like this.
    08-25-15 09:47 PM
  21. evodevo69's Avatar
    Good read.

    I believe they knew this was going to happen all along but it took time to get done.

    I think that going android is critical because it's clear that whatever BlackBerry 10 had, as great of an OS it is, it wasn't enough and that is simply due to apps. It's always been about apps, ever since the bold 9900 days...

    If they can give us apps and then throw on a BlackBerry skin on top that makes it feel like a BlackBerry, then why not. The BlackBerry experience suite appears to be just that.

    If you get access to the android ecosystem and also get the BlackBerry experience like the HUB, Blend, Calendar, docs to go, etc everything that's part of the BlackBerry experience suite, why would you ever choose another android device.

    The slider is going to be a game changer. It's giving us the best of both worlds and it'll be virtually without competition. Culture is looking for a renaissance and the physical keyboard is it, and BlackBerry owns this segment. Samsung is recognizing this thus look at their keyboard attempt...

    I just hope BlackBerry will give us a killer camera as that is another critical element to the flagship space to which they will be entering.

    Make no mistake, I think BlackBerry 10 is safe. Security focused enterprise and government will get BlackBerry 10 and the consumers, hopefully, will get a choice. BlackBerry 10 or Android. It's a good thing.

    #CB10 #workwide #Silver
    RLTurn77 likes this.
    08-25-15 09:48 PM
  22. int19's Avatar
    LOL at going down with the ship. BlackBerry is not in a dire position at the moment, but good on you to continue to support them regardless of OS :-)

    Posted via CB10
    It's like my time with Palm all over again!

    Hardware quality declined and the futures were pinned on a future OS (Cobalt) that never came. It was the demise of Palm that lead me to BlackBerry. Not to do it all over again
    08-25-15 09:59 PM
  23. RLTurn77's Avatar
    I don't get where all this theory on BB10 going for good is coming from because the reasoning you guys keep presenting makes zero sense. Why should BlackBerry stop with BB10 updates? They have invested millions and made millions through government contracts so now BlackBerry just ups and leaves the OS to die? Right.

     вιaсĸвεггч PP Silver Edition via CB10 (AT&T OS 10.3.2.2339)
    It's coming from lack of any communication from the new management team including John Chen himself. Android rumors for months. I've said before that there are a lot of important people using BB10 for security.

    That doesn't mean that the runtime will not be stripped if required by the OHA; if that's the route BlackBerry took to get to Android. They're not going to just shut the devices off... hell, Chen recently relaunched the Bold. This is why I wrote I'd probably use my BB10s until they're dead depending on the circumstance.

    There is a lot of confusion which is hurting perception further in my opinion. Previous management invested millions to release BB10. Yes, we've had significant updates under current management, but also significant layoffs on the hardware side.

    I don't have any answers. Even if BlackBerry stopped updating BB10 it's not like the devices will stop working. They could even basically do maintenance updates and not anything significant. This may be enough to provide to governments unless BlackBerry really believes they've secured Android. Chen did say "if I can secure it, I'll build it". Does BlackBerry even have the resources to have multiple operating systems?

    Kinda like people still use their older BBOS devices without issue including the newer batch of Bolds from Chen. This is a huge part of the problem. Everything is a big secret while Chen smirks and the stock tanks after every interview because of his generic non-answers as of late. Maybe he is holding his cards close to his chest right now. We'll see in time.

    Posted via CB10
    lift and DarkJoker33 like this.
    08-25-15 10:02 PM
  24. 13Blackcoins's Avatar
    I think Chen is being shrewd bringing Android into the fold. I came from Android and to say that I am impressed with BB10 would be an understatement. But it took me a looong time and a deep breath before I decided to take a shot at my first BB.

    BUT, if BB had offered the Passport with Android on it I would not have hesitated a split second. I would have bought it immediately. Eventually I would have stumbled onto BB10 and realised, wtf was I thinking running Android.

    Get them in the door. Doesn't matter how he does it but just get them in.
    THBW and RLTurn77 like this.
    08-25-15 10:11 PM
  25. RLTurn77's Avatar
    From what you wrote, you love BB10. You could care less about the company, BlackBerry. If BlackBerry were to sell off BB10 to Google and Google continued development, I'd say you'd move over to Google.

    As for complaints about the stock, it hasn't been a winner for a long time now - under Mike and Jim, Heins, or Chen. Chen didn't wreck it, especially of late, when the whole market has been tanking.

    When Chen came in, he probably felt that he could move 10 million units per year, especially after talking to his CEO buddies. That bet didn't work out. He could keep trying the same thing again, develop yet another BB10 device, but in the end, people will still criticize BB10 for the lack of apps. He could invest in making the Runtime better, but there's still the fundamental problem of not being 100% compatible - lack of Google Services. His consideration of Android is a reasonable response and conclusion to solving his hardware problem - just as much as Nokia making an Android phone despite spending years on Windows Phone to no avail. Nokia never had the chance to test their "we will save Nokia by releasing an Android phone". (Microsoft probably swept in to buy Nokia hardware to save themselves from embarrassment.) It looks like BlackBerry might get the chance to see if their Android addition might save their hardware.

    As for why BB10 development might have stopped... I can picture a scenario like this:

    Chen: We need to try building an Android phone and I want it done this year.
    R&D: We could do it, but we're short staffed, so we'd have to take everyone to do it.
    Chen: Fine. Do whatever it takes.
    R&D: We'll have to freeze BB10.
    Chen: Will the phones still work? Can we get back to it later?
    R&D: Yes.
    Chen: Do it.
    I see all of your points, but strongly disagree with the first statement. I do care about the company. I'm excited that Sync3 is using QNX, I'm excited to see if BES12 can really pick up, not to mention Movirtu, Secusmart, Watchdox, etc.

    John Chen has tried and is trying to make BlackBerry the security/software go to powerhouse. That's without all of the verticals and IOT; + $X investment in NantHealth. I definitely care about the company and the company's future regardless of handsets.

    I was just speaking regarding handsets since I titled this thread the way I did. If I did not care about the company I would have never invested. No way I invested in BlackBerry because of handsets which is why I questioned the bargain stock prices at the moment.

    Yes, the stock market took some hits last week and will likely continue, but BlackBerry went down below the double digits Chen was able to maintain well before any correction/China/Greece, etc. Really when the Android rumors first surfaced the stock has continued its downtrend and I agree that the markets aren't doing the stock any favors right now.

    Posted via CB10
    08-25-15 10:17 PM
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