[slagman5]

slagman5, thanks for the mockups!

However, you forgot one thing, from my post... Look at how tiny the chin piece is on that 4-row mockup... What, you would hold the phone by the space bar? Talk about top heavy!

You need to have the room for the chin piece -- thus proving my point that by adding a 4th row, it would be absolutely necessary to increase the height of the phone! -- maybe bringing it near the height of the iPhone 6, which is preposterous!

The chin piece on the 3-row passport is already too tiny (hence why AT&T increased it), so imagine making it even smaller (your mockup), that would again be like the failed Droid Pro! I returned that phone because it was soooooo uncomfortable + horrible OS, but design wise, it had many of the things we (9650 fans) were looking for as the next device (this was before the 9930 had come out). Here is a picture of the Droid Pro in case you haven't seen one:

Attachment 327746

Ok, so if you move the chin down another few millimeters, it would be like 2 millimeters bigger than it is now. Would you really have noticed the difference had they released it that way versus the current size?

The first mockup I did before with the full keyboard I didn't focus on making it the same size and it literally was a few millimeters longer. If you try to make it seem like that would have made the difference between it being OK and being too long, I think you're out of your mind. Had they released it 2 millimeters longer versus its current dimensions, the perception of the size and form factor would be 100% identical. If you really cannot use your imagination I'll make another mockup when I get home moving the chin down to be about the same as the normal Passport's chin.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Im Mo Green]

Ok, so if you move the chin down another few millimeters, it would be like 2 millimeters bigger than it is now. Would you really have noticed the difference had they released it that way versus the current size?

The first mockup I did before with the full keyboard I didn't focus on making it the same size and it literally was a few millimeters longer. If you try to make it seem like that would have made the difference between it being OK and being too long, I think you're out of your mind. Had they released it 2 millimeters longer versus its current dimensions, the perception of the size and form factor would be 100% identical. If you really cannot use your imagination I'll make another mockup when I get home moving the chin down to be about the same as the normal Passport's chin.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Yeah get cracking on that mockup now. Chop, Chop. And dont delete it like those others that you said you made

[DYLANHABKIRK]

Technically, there are 4 rows. One is just digital.

This method saves space to make for a bigger 1:1 screen, innovates, and makes for a unique device.

IMO, four physical rows would make the device way too awkward to type on - and we already know how people feel about its ergonomics

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[anon(870071)]

It's a question a lot of us have been asking. I personally feel that had they given the 4 row keyboard, MANY more people would have been happy. Typing symbols and numbers. The passport keyboard just can't match it.

Q5 SQR100-3/10.2.1.3442

But it's sooo easy to acces that just swipe down when the on screen keyboard pops up.

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[Daniel Montanaro]

Not needed. Once you get used to the touch gestures on the keyboard you'll see why there are only 3 rows.

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[okanagan]

http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/mida...-fullbleed.jpg

Clearly enough room for numbers and/or an ALT + Shift Key.

Because the 4th row does not make sense on the Passport. 3 rows pk here to stay. You want your 4 row, go get the classic, that the message from BlackBerry.

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[thedose]

Ok, so if you move the chin down another few millimeters, it would be like 2 millimeters bigger than it is now. Would you really have noticed the difference had they released it that way versus the current size?

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

did you not read my entire post?... seriously? please go back and read my entire post and address all of the stuff I say instead of hopping around and answering only one of the things I mentioned...

The current chin size of the original passport is already tiny as hell as it is! (hence again why the redesign has an enlarged chin, to match with that of the Classic)--which is comfortable to hold and doesn't cause your hands to fatigue over time. Because of the tiny chin on the OG Passport, it becomes uncomfortable to hold after a while and I sometimes find myself actually holding it by the keyboard (yes, I have adult sized-fingers). I am also switching to the redesign because of this change.

Now, go ahead and make another mockup of your 4row + the same chin size that is on the redesigned Passport and you have a phone that is the height of an iPhone 6 + the width of a Passport -- this phone would be HUGE! Now we are talking full-on phablet. I know I most likely wouldn't pick one up because the height of the iPhone 6, to me, is preposterous. Part of what makes the Passport likable to me, is that it's height is not more than 5.05" give or take...

Yes, a few mm, when added up in the end, does make a difference.

[whatsever]

I never used a qwerty before and its fine for me.

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[7onZ]

Technically, there are 4 rows. One is just digital.

This method saves space to make for a bigger 1:1 screen, innovates, and makes for a unique device.

IMO, four physical rows would make the device way too awkward to type on - and we already know how people feel about its ergonomics

Posted via CB10

I agree with DHK. Some people fail to realize that the Passport's keyboard is a hybrid of both digital and physical, and yes this result to needing for a new learning curve. But why would they make a different keyboard aside of the norm? Innovation or for the love of going with the Passport's size?

The design team is there to study and keep improving one's experience with their product. I don't agree that it wasn't thought enough (nor saying someone said it so), but it is a new design and like anything new, you just have to go with its flow in order to understand why it was designed like that.

Why some can't get a grip with the new design? Maybe they just don't use it as it is intended to be or their hands is not just fit well enough to use the new layout. Like mine, since I tend to have an average sized hand, my thumb tend to get stressed a bit due to the almost same sized chin with the keyboard and I feel it could be a better experience if it is a bit bigger to offset some weight from the the of the device. But this is just me and from what I've been reading from other people (who might have bigger hands than me) they seem okay with it and found a way how to deal about it.

[slagman5]

But it's sooo easy to acces that just swipe down when the on screen keyboard pops up.

Posted via CB10

Yah, and on a full keyboard it's so much easier you just... oh, you do nothing and the symbols are already there...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[slagman5]

did you not read my entire post?... seriously? please go back and read my entire post and address all of the stuff I say instead of hopping around and answering only one of the things I mentioned...

The current chin size of the original passport is already tiny as hell as it is! (hence again why the redesign has an enlarged chin, to match with that of the Classic)--which is comfortable to hold and doesn't cause your hands to fatigue over time. Because of the tiny chin on the OG Passport, it becomes uncomfortable to hold after a while and I sometimes find myself actually holding it by the keyboard (yes, I have adult sized-fingers). I am also switching to the redesign because of this change.

Now, go ahead and make another mockup of your 4row + the same chin size that is on the redesigned Passport and you have a phone that is the height of an iPhone 6 + the width of a Passport -- this phone would be HUGE! Now we are talking full-on phablet. I know I most likely wouldn't pick one up because the height of the iPhone 6, to me, is preposterous. Part of what makes the Passport likable to me, is that it's height is not more than 5.05" give or take...

Yes, a few mm, when added up in the end, does make a difference.

If you have both devices side-by-side you'll say "look, it's taller" but had they released it like that from the beginning, it would be how it is. 100% that difference would not make the difference between someone saying it was too big or not too big. It either is or it isn't. I did read what you wrote, it just changes absolutely nothing in my response.

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[thedose]

It's almost like I am speaking to a brick wall! Nothing gets through! No matter the evidence! Hilarious!

[imcurved]

http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/mida...-fullbleed.jpg

Clearly enough room for numbers and/or an ALT + Shift Key.

Your Passport looks awesome.


PassportSQW100-1/10.3.0.1154

[eabbq10]

Slagman your mock ups are amazing! I really hope BlackBerry takes note. Bring on the fourth row and make the Passport even better

Posted from my Classic Passport

[thedose]

Slagman your mock ups are amazing! I really hope BlackBerry takes note. Bring on the fourth row and make the Passport even better

Posted from my Classic Passport

Hell, why don't they add a 5th and 6th row as well! woo hoo!

[eabbq10]

Curved passport looks less distinctive

Posted from my Classic Passport

[imcurved]

slagman5, thanks for the mockups!

However, you forgot one thing, from my post... Look at how tiny the chin piece is on that 4-row mockup... What, you would hold the phone by the space bar? Talk about top heavy!

You need to have the room for the chin piece -- thus proving my point that by adding a 4th row, it would be absolutely necessary to increase the height of the phone! -- maybe bringing it near the height of the iPhone 6, which is preposterous!

The chin piece on the 3-row passport is already too tiny (hence why AT&T increased it), so imagine making it even smaller (your mockup), that would again be like the failed Droid Pro! I returned that phone because it was soooooo uncomfortable + horrible OS, but design wise, it had many of the things we (9650 fans) were looking for as the next device (this was before the 9930 had come out). Here is a picture of the Droid Pro in case you haven't seen one:

Attachment 327746

Good looking mocking. Ya, I don't mind for the entire chassis to be a tad longer so they can move the four row keyboard up to balance it out. The top bezel has plenty of room to move the screen up.

PassportSQW100-1/10.3.0.1154

[dmateo]

It's almost like I am speaking to a brick wall! Nothing gets through! No matter the evidence! Hilarious!

Why are you so angry?

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[thedose]

Why are you so angry?

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sarcasm?

Oh wait, we're all serious 24/7 on here, oops, I guess I forgot that cardinal rule!

Actually, yes, I am extremely angry... what are ya gonna do about it?

[thurask]

Technically, there are 4 rows. One is just digital.

This method saves space to make for a bigger 1:1 screen, innovates, and makes for a unique device.

IMO, four physical rows would make the device way too awkward to type on - and we already know how people feel about its ergonomics

Posted via CB10

Agreed.

Symbol management on the Passport follows the virtual keyboard model, so it's somewhat of a bridge between virtual and physical. Alt+a key is flow breaking.

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[dmateo]

sarcasm?

Oh wait, we're all serious 24/7 on here, oops, I guess I forgot that cardinal rule!

Actually, yes, I am extremely angry... what are ya gonna do about it?

Lol. Funny...

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[slagman5]

It's almost like I am speaking to a brick wall! Nothing gets through! No matter the evidence! Hilarious!

It's almost like I am speaking to a brick wall! Nothing gets through! No matter the evidence! Hilarious!



See, I can do it too. Just because I don't agree with your subjective observations doesn't mean that I'm not "getting" anything. I don't know if you fully understand how "too big" is a subjective measure or not... Look up the word "opinion" maybe if you're having trouble with the concept. :-)

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Mirk]

Gotta love how passionate some of you are about your keyboards.

I've never had a phone with a physical keyboard before and thus have no hang ups on the way it should be. Consequently, I have no issues with the design of this keyboard. It felt completely natural to me straight out of the box. I can't see that adding the fourth row would make it any batter. In fact I'd probably say this is the better typing experience, that is if I had enough experience with the other keyboard to say that.

With all that being said, the one thing that I question is does anyone really believe they never tried it both ways when they designed the thing. I can only assume that with such a radical change they must have tried 4 rows and had their reasons for going with 3 rows.

[slagman5]

Gotta love how passionate some of you are about your keyboards.

I've never had a phone with a physical keyboard before and thus have no hang ups on the way it should be. Consequently, I have no issues with the design of this keyboard. It felt completely natural to me straight out of the box. Consequently, I can't see that adding the fourth row would make it any batter. In fact I'd probably say this is the better typing experience, that is if I had enough experience with the other keyboard to say that.

With all that being said, the one thing that I question is does anyone really believe they never tried it both ways when they designed the thing. I can only assume that with such a radical change they must have tried 4 rows and had their reasons for going with 3 rows.

The thing with these designs is that a lot of times they go with things for reasons other than what is actually better. Most likely someone spent a lot of time designing a 3-row keyboard for the sake of saving space, and at the end of the day, they have to use it or consider all the time and money spent on it lost. Plus, it can be just so there's a distinguishable feature between this device and others.

Without considering the other factors, if you ever have the need to type multiple symbols in a row, simply holding a button and typing away is always going to be faster than swiping continuously, or having to press a lock button, then pressing it again after you're done, and seeing the symbols ahead of time while you're typing could get you to prepare which key to press before getting to it while requiring an on-screen keyboard means you then have to stop and look for it only when you get to the point where you need the symbol.

If you've never used a pkb device before and haven't mastered the process of reaching for the alt key while typing the last non-symbol character before you need a symbol (thus not taking any more time than just normal typing without symbols), something you cannot do with the 3-row since you need to swipe first, then type rather than doing it at the same time while you're typing.

But not to say it's a "bad" design, but not really the "best" which is all we're saying. If there was some great advantage to it, then we'll all be in agreement, but unfortunately in reality the amount of space it saves is minimal...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Mirk]

You are making a couple assumptions that I think you shouldn't be.

First, you provide reasons why they might have kept the design. I only said they must have their reasons. I have no reason to assume one way or the other what they were. The main point was to question if you actually had considered if they built a version with 4 rows and made a decision not to go with that. Well, did you consider that they might have tried it both ways?

Second, you assume the methods my which I use my Passport keyboard. Your assumptions are in fact wrong and I care not to explain all my little tricks. Also, I have mastered the art of holding down keys while typing just fine, most keyboards work this way with the shift key.

Finally, I do find it a little odd that I expressed my opinion and you have essentially tried to refute it. Doesn't that post just above mine say something about that? Let's just be clear... In my opinion this is the best keyboard.