1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I'm considering retiring my trusty z10 and going back to using a PKB for the first time since March 2013.

    I'm trying to decide between the Passport SE and the Classic. Obviously the Passport is the more powerful phone, but I am wondering which of the two is best for typing quickly and accurately.

    I already know, from reading Crackberry responses for years, that a bunch of people are going to say things like "whatever you prefer" or "whatever you get used to" but I think that's a cop out. It's my experience that, when it comes to ergonomics and design, some are better than others.

    So my question is this:

    Assuming I use a device for 2-4 hours of actual typing each day, and optimize my typing to the individual device, does the Classic or the Passport SE support the FASTEST possible text production, INCLUDING EDITING.

    I think, but do not know, that typing will be faster with the Classic keyboard, and that editing will be faster and more accurate with the toolbelt. However, I think the virtual character row and flick up word completion will be faster on the Passport.

    In any case, let the arguments begin, but please try to stay focused on the question of text production and editing rather than other properties of the two devices.

    Posted via CB10
    08-07-16 07:13 PM
  2. playfoot's Avatar
    I can state without equivocation the Classic.

    That is not to say the PP is bad. Simply, for me the Classic is better. For granular differentiation I believe the SE is better than the original PP. The addition chin, perhaps the weight distribution make for a much better balance.

    Specifically for typing, I find the PP's small space bar, and lack of fourth row to be a shortcoming for me. It slows me down when having to shift between screen, flicking and keys for symbols, different languages, etc. Yes, the track pad is marginally better, in my opinion,than the PP keyboard. However, to be fair the keyboard is a good piece of technology.
    andy957 and bigjman like this.
    08-07-16 10:03 PM
  3. Peter_Cincy's Avatar
    I have an AT&T Passport and my wife a Classic, meaning that I'm really accustomed to the Passport and occasionally get to try out the Classic. No surprise then that I type much better, and faster, on the Passport - IMO it is indeed largely a matter of what you get used to.

    On the other hand, I wouldn't sell the PP keyboard short. Two factors I would suggest considering: the size of your thumbs and your ability to read small print. Fatter thumbs will do better on the Passport, while the printed alt-characters on the Classic KB can be too hard to read. Personally I find the trackpad versus PP capacitive KB fight to be a draw. I would recommend getting your hands on both devices in order to decide which is best for you. Good luck.
    08-07-16 11:38 PM
  4. bhoqeem's Avatar
    SE. The word flicking, much softer keyboard, faster response hardware and track pad, top it all off. It's heavier, though, I warn you. Yer gonna feel the weight after an hour or two of non stop typing.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Last edited by bhoqeem; 08-08-16 at 12:49 AM.
    08-07-16 11:54 PM
  5. yessuz's Avatar
    passport. better, bigger keyboard is easier to type.

    you just need few days to get accustomised with it. then you get used to it and it's perfect!
    08-08-16 05:30 AM
  6. Pixel Spartan's Avatar
    Got both, carry both. Classic is the daily driver though Passport is superior in most typing scenarios.

    BUT

    When editing and reviewing long text entries, the trackpad on the Classic kills the Passport's (and Q10's). Add in one handed use, pocketability and that's how the Classic works for me.

    Drive the device hard though, multitasking, browsing and writing, then I should switch to the Passport? Nuh, never do, still patiently chug it out with the classic.

    The rationale is there for the passport but the Classic (as hamstrung as it is) just is a trooper for writing.

     Classic via CB
    08-08-16 07:16 AM
  7. New_England's Avatar
    Personally I in fact do type faster on a Classic or even my 'old' Q10, however I prefer the typing experience on my Passport OG a lot better. Typing single handedly is a pain on the PP but still possible, whilst the same action can be done easily on my Classic. Since I use the PP as my main device, I handed my Classic over to my fiancee.
    Just my 2 cents. Cheers!

     Gentlemen, it has been a privilege playing with you! PP OG 
    08-08-16 08:13 AM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Great points. Thanks to all who have responded. This is exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping for.

    I am a perfectionist who spends 2-3x more time editing than typing, and my biggest complaint with the Z10 compared to my old 9900 is how imprecise text selection is on the VKB. I am someone who used ALL of the toolbelt and keyboard shortcuts on BBOS phones, but I have also come to appreciate the advantages of an all-touch device.

    What is the quickest and most accurate way of selecting text on the Passport?

    Posted via CB10
    08-08-16 09:12 AM
  9. bhoqeem's Avatar
    What is the quickest and most accurate way of selecting text on the Passport?

    Posted via CB10
    Tap the keyboard twice to summon the editing circle. Bring the circle around with your finger along the keyboard. Press the shift button (arrow up) on the virtual keyboard and drag the editing circle to the left or right to choose a word or more. That's the fastest and most accurate way for me.
    08-08-16 10:24 AM
  10. DOCTOREVIL8's Avatar
    I've owned both. Simply put, the Classic is the best keyboard. The tool belt works surprisingly well using BB10. It's probably the best form factor out there.

    I own a BlackBerry Passport SE now. Why? Screen size for my aging eyes and horsepower. The battery life of Passport is phenomenal and the touch sensitivity of the keyboard changes how you use the device. If the Classic had the battery life and horsepower of the Passport I'd probably be using the Classic instead. Both devices are awesome. But if the question is purely keyboard typing speed, the Classic wins.

    Posted via CB10
    08-08-16 11:03 AM
  11. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Tap the keyboard twice to summon the editing circle. Bring the circle around with your finger along the keyboard. Press the shift button (arrow up) on the virtual keyboard and drag the editing circle to the left or right to choose a word or more. That's the fastest and most accurate way for me.
    Thank you. I'm all too familiar with the editing circle, which I've been using since 2013 on my Z10. I was hoping there was a more precise way to quickly select text by moving the cursor with the keyboard, without having to double tap and position the circle. I think it's the best "all touch" editing solution I've seen, but it simply doesn't compare in accuracy with using the keyboard to move the cursor and select text. I guess I was hoping the Passport made keyboard cursor movement and text select possible without having to use the screen, though I didn't see how it could do that.

    It looks like I'll be getting a Classic for writing. And then maybe a Passport for all-around use.

    Posted via CB10
    08-08-16 04:45 PM
  12. BeautyEh's Avatar
    Probably the Classic although I will admit I've been shocked at how quickly I can type on the PP SE after just 2 weeks of getting used to it.

    Posted via CB10
    08-08-16 08:04 PM
  13. pgg101's Avatar
    Passport. My work phone is a Classic, but I prefer Passport everytime.

    RedBerry Passport /10.3.2.2876 / Telus
    08-08-16 08:49 PM
  14. muhammri's Avatar
    I've get used with passport keyboard. Feel typing is much faster with (by considering selection of words suggestions)

    Posted via CB10
    08-08-16 09:04 PM
  15. CharlieV's Avatar
    I'm going to go counter here. I have large hands but I find it easier to type by touch (and hence faster) on a smaller keyboard. The Passport is a little too big for me and I never fully adjusted to the space bar and shift keys on the third row.

    But to each his own. In fact I think you can be fast with any of them if you just spend enough time. And if you flick. If you don't flick, you are lost.

    Ride or die:  PRIVelege-acy
    Last edited by CharlieV; 08-09-16 at 07:00 AM.
    08-08-16 09:08 PM
  16. Pixel Spartan's Avatar

    It looks like I'll be getting a Classic for writing. And then maybe a Passport for all-around use.

    Posted via CB10

    Tl:dr; Two BB10 devices are great, but a full Android/iOs device might be a better compliment to your daily driver.

    Though this is also my current setup (Classic + Passport) I will add the following has me possibly moving away from two BB10 devices down to just a Classic.

    I heavily use Evernote as my writing database and though I have a few Markdown and general writing apps I always seem to rely on Evernote to glue it together. If you do research/source copy from the browser, the Classic does suffer lag, it will chug through, but it can be pushed too far with many browser windows. The Passport sings in this regard. Moving back and forth between the devices is great in this regard. My setup works thanks to my carrier offering companion sims (1 plan, 2 sim cards, shared data allowance). The Blackbullet app bundle is really helpful (Pushbullet service) to jump between different devices.

    However, I'm moving to Japan and there are some realities I'm facing. The Android apps on the Passport do actually round out the device but they kill the battery life. You can spend months tweaking the thing but some Android demon will chomp through the battery life. My Classic is Android free (ports are ok).

    I also carry an Apple Pencil with a 9.7 iPad Pro. Handwriting has been quite a change to my workflow and again Evernote has been key to keeping these three pieces of hardware in sync.

    In conclusion, I hypothesise the best hardware workflow is.

    1) Classic as main driver
    Or
    2) Passport (with no Android) as main driver
    3) Android high end unit as a companion device for apps.
    4) IOS tablet (Pro or mini) as a companion writing/research device at home or laptop replacement on the go. There just isn't anything on Android with the writing apps to compete. (Think Ulysses, Scrivener, Wordflex). It might be my old school ways but getting stuff off an iOS device onto something else is still a pain, regardless of the cloud syncs. I curse the hoops it makes me jump through.

    At some point in the next 12mths I think the Classic will get more challenged to keep up. What I'm waiting out for is a PKB Android flagship from BlackBerry but it won't have that granular control of notifications you get with BB10. It may have the potential to replace items 1 to 3 for me but who knows when and if they'll hamstring the device somehow. BlackBerry Hub on Android is promising at least for non BlackBerry hardware.

    The Passport (OG/SE) is a one off eccentric device that promises to do a lot more than the Classic but can't beat it's form factor. Still, a device you will love but the Classic is a hammer.

    Writing on both devices is almost a great substitute (and arguably better) than touch typing on a desktop for shorter writing sessions. If I wrote this post on a vkb only, I'd have simply resigned to not bother.

    My apologies for the extra info, I guess I'm bored of spec vs spec discussions on CB and missing reading about people's workflows and their BlackBerry device of choice.


     Classic via CB
    Last edited by Pixel Spartan; 08-08-16 at 11:51 PM.
    08-08-16 10:41 PM
  17. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Tl:dr; Two BB10 devices are great, but a full Android/iOs device might be a better compliment to your daily driver.

    Though this is also my current setup (Classic + Passport) I will add the following has me possibly moving away from two BB10 devices down to just a Classic.

    I heavily use Evernote as my writing database and though I have a few Markdown and general writing apps I always seem to rely on Evernote to glue it together. If you do research/source copy from the browser, the Classic does suffer lag, it will chug through, but it can be pushed too far with many browser windows. The Passport sings in this regard. Moving back and forth between the devices is great in this regard. My setup works thanks to my carrier offering companion sims (1 plan, 2 sim cards, shared data allowance). The Blackbullet app bundle is really helpful (Pushbullet service) to jump between different devices.

    However, I'm moving to Japan and there are some realities I'm facing. The Android apps on the Passport do actually round out the device but they kill the battery life. You can spend months tweaking the thing but some Android demon will chomp through the battery life. My Classic is Android free (ports are ok).

    I also carry an Apple Pencil with a 9.7 iPad Pro. Handwriting has been quite a change to my workflow and again Evernote has been key to keeping these three pieces of hardware in sync.

    In conclusion, I hypothesise the best hardware workflow is.

    1) Classic as main driver
    Or
    2) Passport (with no Android) as main driver
    3) Android high end unit as a companion device for apps.
    4) IOS tablet (Pro or mini) as a companion writing/research device at home or laptop replacement on the go. There just isn't anything on Android with the writing apps to compete. (Think Ulysses, Scrivener, Wordflex). It might be my old school ways but getting stuff off an iOS device onto something else is still a pain, regardless of the cloud syncs. I curse the hoops it makes me jump through.

    At some point in the next 12mths I think the Classic will get more challenged to keep up. What I'm waiting out for is a PKB Android flagship from BlackBerry but it won't have that granular control of notifications you get with BB10. It may have the potential to replace items 1 to 3 for me but who knows when and if they'll hamstring the device somehow. BlackBerry Hub on Android is promising at least for non BlackBerry hardware.

    The Passport (OG/SE) is a one off eccentric device that promises to do a lot more than the Classic but can't beat it's form factor. Still, a device you will love but the Classic is a hammer.

    Writing on both devices is almost a great substitute (and arguably better) than touch typing on a desktop for shorter writing sessions. If I wrote this post on a vkb only, I'd have simply resigned to not bother.

    My apologies for the extra info, I guess I'm bored of spec vs spec discussions on CB and missing reading about people's workflows and their BlackBerry device of choice.


     Classic via CB
    Thanks for your thoughts. I currently don't have any apps in my work flow that require Android or iOS. I use Remember to integrate with Evernote in BB10.

    I'm not opposed to a BlackBerry Android device after BB10 no longer meets my needs, but I love the ease of use and seamless integration it offers me currently.

    Posted via CB10
    08-09-16 12:28 AM
  18. GusBandicoot's Avatar
    I would say...if you are used to, or have had experience of a pkb on older BlackBerrys, you'll find the classic easier straight off...however, given time the ppse would be a better long term option.

    I struggled for speed coming from 9900,q10 to ppse due to the slightly different orientation of the keys, but now after a good few months I can't imagine going back to a smaller device...

    Just mho

    Posted via CB10 - 9900 -Playbook- Q10 - Passport SE (1) - Passport SE (2)
    08-09-16 02:14 AM

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