01-18-15 01:55 PM
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  1. Im Mo Green's Avatar
    AT&T says jump and John Chen says how high.
    Who you rather have AT&T say nothing to Chen? They sell phones, blackberry needs to sell phones. They requested a rounded frame to sell the device, and Blackberry made a rounded frame for them. Whats the problem? Its business. Stop crying.
    raqball, thedose, kbz1960 and 2 others like this.
    01-09-15 09:25 AM
  2. early2bed's Avatar
    Who you rather have AT&T say nothing to Chen? They sell phones, blackberry needs to sell phones. They requested a rounded frame to sell the device, and Blackberry made a rounded frame for them. Whats the problem? Its business. Stop crying.
    I can think of a couple problems for Blackberry:

    1. The important US carrier launch is delayed by who knows how long. This is still the smartphone race, isn't it? How many Blackberry customers are needing an upgrade and will make the platform switch.

    2. Customers now have two styles to look at but only one choice depending on your carrier. Chances are that a decent percentage of all Passport users will prefer the other style.

    This is not something that John Chen would be doing if he had a choice.
    Last edited by early2bed; 01-09-15 at 10:44 AM.
    01-09-15 09:43 AM
  3. luigieagle's Avatar
    I would like to see ATT asking Apple for a change on the iphone. What would you think it happen?
    I don't like what Chen is doing. First his: "I'll buy your iPhone if you buy my BlackBerry. Then att say I don't like this and he goes: "what do you want? I'll do it". BlackBerry don't need to humiliate itself. It's already a great phone. What they need is a good marketing to convince people BlackBerry is the best phone because it is.

    Posted via CB10
    andy957 likes this.
    01-09-15 10:17 AM
  4. jimoates014's Avatar
    The first iPhone wasn't a success (relatively speaking). I think you're out to lunch with your expectations. Rather than being given something the consumer wants, you'd rather be told "you will like what I sell you at inflated price and you'll be happy to shell out the $$$".

    Jobs was a narcissistic piece of excrement. He's a criminal in at least 3 different ways (book price fixing, no-poaching fixing, stock backdating scandal, etc, and now we're hearing about collusion in Canada to take out the competition). Without the marketing with celebs to make Apple look cool, people would not have bought it and caught on. Not everyone gets away with the crap that Jobs pulled. Nice guys finish last.

    Drink the Apple juice if you really want what Apple is selling. I have no desire to trade BlackBerry juice for Apple juice.
    Oh good, I'm not on my own with an assessment of Apple. Thinking back to the Samsung court case over rounded rectangle, have various manufacturers not made tea trays and biscuit tins in this shape since the year dot? So why did Apple think they invented it? IPhone? Triumph of image over substance.

    Passport or Z10, whichever is nearest
    01-09-15 10:39 AM
  5. Im Mo Green's Avatar
    I can think of a couple problems for Blackberry:

    1. The important US carrier launch is delayed by who knows how long. This is still the smartphone race, isn't it? How many Blackberry customers are needing an upgrade and will make the platform switch.

    2. Customers now have two styles to look at but only one choice depending on your carrier. Chances are that a decent percentage of all Passport users will prefer the other style.

    This is not something that John Chen would be doing if he had a choice.
    Exactly Chen does doe not have a choice, so whats your point. He wants to expand distribution and rounded corners was the term to get carrier support. You or I dont know what in return Chen got for the change, so speculate all you want. The point is he needs sales and need carrier support, AT&T is a way to do that.

    Customer have a choice as well. You want rounded dump your carrier and move to AT&T at this point. If blackberry doesnt get sales, blackberrycustomers wont have any choice. AGAIN ITS BUSINESS!!!!
    thedose likes this.
    01-09-15 11:39 AM
  6. Im Mo Green's Avatar
    I would like to see ATT asking Apple for a change on the iphone. What would you think it happen?
    I don't like what Chen is doing. First his: "I'll buy your iPhone if you buy my BlackBerry. Then att say I don't like this and he goes: "what do you want? I'll do it". BlackBerry don't need to humiliate itself. It's already a great phone. What they need is a good marketing to convince people BlackBerry is the best phone because it is.

    Posted via CB10
    I am sorry but you are living in fantasy land. Why would ATT&T go to apple for changes in their phone? They sell a ton of them, its a money maker for AT&T and every other carrier. I guarantee you if for some reason apple products stopped selling, it would be a completely different conversation carriers would be having with Apple. It would be identical to the conversation carriers are having with blackberry right now.

    Humiliation???? Give me a break, and get a clue.
    thedose likes this.
    01-09-15 11:46 AM
  7. luigieagle's Avatar
    I am sorry but you are living in fantasy land. Why would ATT&T go to apple for changes in their phone? They sell a ton of them, its a money maker for AT&T and every other carrier. I guarantee you if for some reason apple products stopped selling, it would be a completely different conversation carriers would be having with Apple. It would be identical to the conversation carriers are having with blackberry right now.

    Humiliation???? Give me a break, and get a clue.
    When I said "I would like to see ATT asking apple..." was sarcasm, not that I really wanted. That will never happen of course.
    Do you really think it is not humiliation do what the carrier wants and say: "I'll pay you for your iphone, but please buy mine"? That is not a good marketing!!!!
    andy957 likes this.
    01-09-15 12:16 PM
  8. Zedd88's Avatar
    When I said "I would like to see ATT asking apple..." was sarcasm, not that I really wanted. That will never happen of course.
    Do you really think it is not humiliation do what the carrier wants and say: "I'll pay you for your iphone, but please buy mine"? That is not a good marketing!!!!
    What really is your issue with Blackberry's decision. First you felt you were a guinea pig and cheated for buying the square Passport. Then you changed your position to Blackberry not having a direction. Now, what they did is humiliating.

    It's not humiliating to give in to your potential business partner. It's part of business to negotiate and to give and take. Blackberry made the Passport's edge rounded in return, AT&T will bundle it and may offer it subsidized for their subscribers. That's potential sales. It would be humiliating to make a deal that is too one sided. I would also assume that AT&T would have a level of commitment in terms of quantity that they will purchase/sell.

    And the iPhone swap is actually not humiliating. Again, it's a good marketing ploy telling the people that "hey our phone is better than iPhone, trade-up your phone to upgrade it to a better phone". At any rate, if people do avail of it, the Passport will be out there and it will spread by word of mouth. It actually is a cheaper marketing champaign than hiring a celebrity to endorse. It also shows confidence that the Passport will satisfy an iPhone user to convert and it will make people talk about it. Again a good marketing strategy.

    Posted via CB10
    thedose likes this.
    01-09-15 01:01 PM
  9. Blacklatino's Avatar
    I'm happy with my Passport,
    Stick with this thought. Most of us gave up a long time ago trying to interject logic to certain decisions made by or agreed upon by BlackBerry. We simply don't have the inside knowledge and no one really cares if we agree or disagree. So, enjoy your Passport.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    01-09-15 01:02 PM
  10. Blacklatino's Avatar
    Who you rather have AT&T say nothing to Chen? They sell phones, blackberry needs to sell phones. They requested a rounded frame to sell the device, and Blackberry made a rounded frame for them. Whats the problem? Its business. Stop crying.
    BlackBerry is the "comeback kid".......and they are still on the journey. BlackBerry needs the carriers. Unfortunately, the carriers have been doing well without selling BlackBerries. Some ppl tend to forget who needs who.
    01-09-15 01:07 PM
  11. Tim Heard's Avatar
    Perhaps one of the most absurd set of arguments I have read.
    Yes, Ford originally offered a car in 1 color only. Do you think that would work now?
    And Apple actually is coming to understand that they were losing market share because they were sticking with their small "Steve Jobs" phones, and consumers were wanting larger screens.
    We are operating in a market in which people aren't homogeneous. They don't want just 1 thing. Lots of people wanted a phone like the Classic, but more people have no interest int he Classic at all. Yes, the Passport got a better reception than many expected, but the sales were insignificant compared to the total market that's out there. There's still room for BlackBerry to gain ground with slab phones, hopefully a nice slider phone eventually, and it only makes sense that the subsequent versions of the Passport aren't going to be identical to the first release. Even wildly successful products change things from one year to the next. It's one way to drive sales.

    I think that when someone makes a lot of changes in a very short time, he doesn't know what he really wants or where he is going.
    First the Passport square, then the Classic with good size but not as good in features as the Passport, now the Passport rounded... maybe tomorrow the Classic square...
    I think that BB is trying to find what we want instead of making a great phone an give it to us.
    Steve Jobs never asked "what you want", he just sell it and the iPhone is a success. Ford did the same, never asked "What kind of horses you want now?" he just sell the automobile.
    Blackberry is great!!!! But they do not know what to do. They do one thing, then another... then another. It's like they are testing the devices with us. That's why companies has a testing lab, right?
    thedose and anon1727506 like this.
    01-09-15 01:46 PM
  12. donnation's Avatar
    The first iPhone wasn't a success (relatively speaking). I think you're out to lunch with your expectations. Rather than being given something the consumer wants, you'd rather be told "you will like what I sell you at inflated price and you'll be happy to shell out the $$$".

    Jobs was a narcissistic piece of excrement. He's a criminal in at least 3 different ways (book price fixing, no-poaching fixing, stock backdating scandal, etc, and now we're hearing about collusion in Canada to take out the competition). Without the marketing with celebs to make Apple look cool, people would not have bought it and caught on. Not everyone gets away with the crap that Jobs pulled. Nice guys finish last.

    Drink the Apple juice if you really want what Apple is selling. I have no desire to trade BlackBerry juice for Apple juice.
    What are you even talking about? The first iPhone wasn't a success? Relative to what? The 10's of millions of devices they sell now? At the time they were breaking records with the sale of the original.

    With your other comments I think you need to drink less of the BB cool aid and come back to reality.
    01-09-15 02:10 PM
  13. luigieagle's Avatar
    Yes, Ford originally offered a car in 1 color only. Do you think that would work now?
    I'm not talking about the color, I'm talking about the car in a time that people didn't believe it could be a success. My point is that they (Ford and Jobs) knew exactly where they were going and (for me, of course and I hope I'm wrong in my judge) and Chen say one thing today and the contrary tomorrow. It seems to me there is not a clear goal, but as i said, I really hope I'm totally wrong because I want BB to be like it was in the past.
    01-09-15 02:52 PM
  14. luigieagle's Avatar
    I'm really sorry if I bother someone with this post. It is really hard express my self in a language that is not my language. I just wanted to express what I feel: that there is not a clear goal in the company.
    They say that success people take fast decisions and change them so slow, and unsuccessful people take decision very slow and change them so fast.
    Blackberry needs a great campaign to convince customers it is the best phone on the market.
    Has anyone in the usa has seen the Milk campaign? They make you believe that if you drink milk you'll be so smart, success and you will fix all your problems, even emotional ones. I do not believe any word of that, but the campaign is genius!!! They do not say: "I will buy your soy milk if you buy my cow milk".
    I think all they say is a lie, but it works. I think iPhone is not the best phone ever, but what is behind all the success? A great campaign. I don't think Coca Cola is good for your health, but what is behind that success? A great campaign.
    Blackberry wouldn't need to lie. Just convince people of a true: Blackberry is the best phone you can get. But what happen? What is behind of all this "no success"? Bad campaigns! bad decisions!
    How many of the 39 millions of iPhones does Blackberry have after the campaign "I will buy your iPhone if you buy my Passport"?
    You see my point?
    andy957 likes this.
    01-09-15 03:42 PM
  15. Tim Heard's Avatar
    Well, I think we ARE in agreement that Blackberry doesn't seem to know much about marketing.
    luigieagle likes this.
    01-09-15 03:50 PM
  16. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    I'm not talking about the color, I'm talking about the car in a time that people didn't believe it could be a success. My point is that they (Ford and Jobs) knew exactly where they were going and (for me, of course and I hope I'm wrong in my judge) and Chen say one thing today and the contrary tomorrow. It seems to me there is not a clear goal, but as i said, I really hope I'm totally wrong because I want BB to be like it was in the past.
    Spot on!

    Posted via CB10
    01-09-15 04:53 PM
  17. diegonei's Avatar
    Sure! target other markets is excellent. But, say: "our target are not the masses, are the business men", and 4 months later change the shape of the phone and target the masses is a signal that the target is not really clear.
    Narrow vision on your part, maybe? Think milestones. Milestone one: Fix the financial balance. Milestone two: Target enterprise. Milestonne three: Target prosumers. Milestone four: Target general users (media/entertainment/game-centric).

    It's called long term planning.

    Rounded the Passport to make it look like the others????? I do not want another iPhone (have you realized that after iPhone every phone looks alike? All have the same shape) I want a Blackberry that looks like a Blackberry and no like any other phone. If i want a phone that looks like an iPhone... i would get an iPhone, since that's the original one in that style.
    Who said it was done for that reason? Whatever AT&T had in mind was not disclosed. And the rounded PP actually looks like an oversized Classic. Happy? STILL looks like a BlackBerry.

    Even more so now.
    01-09-15 04:58 PM
  18. kbz1960's Avatar
    I would like to see ATT asking Apple for a change on the iphone. What would you think it happen?
    I don't like what Chen is doing. First his: "I'll buy your iPhone if you buy my BlackBerry. Then att say I don't like this and he goes: "what do you want? I'll do it". BlackBerry don't need to humiliate itself. It's already a great phone. What they need is a good marketing to convince people BlackBerry is the best phone because it is.

    Posted via CB10
    Difference being, iPhones sell, bb's don't.
    01-09-15 05:02 PM
  19. aiharkness's Avatar
    Crap. So many choices. Ford, Chevy, Honda, Toyota..... And they each make so many different models.

    And don't get me started on breakfast cereal! If Kellogg would only tell me what to eat and take the choices away from me!

    All bow to Apple.
    01-09-15 05:13 PM
  20. luigieagle's Avatar
    It is not about the choices' it is about the fast changes and bad decisions.

    Posted via CB10
    andy957 likes this.
    01-09-15 05:22 PM
  21. aiharkness's Avatar
    It is about choice. It is about providing different models for different needs and different tastes. I don't see the problem.

    If you want limited selection and effective advertising, the good news is this wonderful marketplace delivers that, too.

    Different strokes.
    thedose likes this.
    01-09-15 05:44 PM
  22. luigieagle's Avatar
    It is about choice. It is about providing different models for different needs and different tastes. I don't see the problem.

    If you want limited selection and effective advertising, the good news is this wonderful marketplace delivers that, too.

    Different strokes.
    As I said above is about bad decisions. How many of the 39 millions of iphone have blackberry got after the campaign "I'll buy your iphone if you buy my passport"? Still think that's a good decision? Smart?

    Posted via CB10
    01-09-15 05:52 PM
  23. aiharkness's Avatar
    I can't bring myself to read the entire thread, but the first claim is that the different models indicates the manufacturer doesn't know what it wants to do, or something like that. False. I refuted that.

    Another claim is the manufacturer's bad decisions are because it can't decide what to do and so it makes too many models, or something like that. I partially refuted that, too. But more to the point, BlackBerry made many bad decisions. And some of those bad decisions were associated with form factor designs. But too many changes? No, it isn't changes, it's variety, and there are obvious examples of manufacturers that can do variety and succeed.

    Forgive me for not taking the time to wade through all of the arguments, but I think I got the gist of it.
    01-09-15 06:34 PM
  24. Zedd88's Avatar
    As I said above is about bad decisions. How many of the 39 millions of iphone have blackberry got after the campaign "I'll buy your iphone if you buy my passport"? Still think that's a good decision? Smart?

    Posted via CB10
    Yes. It still is a good campaign. Their target never was to convert all 39M iPhone users to Blackberry. Their target was to let people know that they have a phone better than iPhone that they are willing to let you trade-up for it. That has been done a lot of times especially in technology. There was a campaign a while back to buy a new printer for 50% off if you turn in your old one. Do they really expect everyone to change? No. But will it get people's attention with that ploy? Yes.

    Car dealers also have this campaign, trade in your car for a new one. They won't buy your car at full price but it's current market value. Same goes with the iphone trade, lots of conditions need to be met for the iPhone to be valued at a certain price. This is a marketing campaign which actually costs lower than hiring a high profile celebrity to endorse your product.

    Also, as I stated before, how is coming up with a rounded Passport a sign of them not having direction? How is it a sign of them saying one thing and doing another? It is in fact a sign of them saying one thing (they said last Sept 24 that AT&T will eventually carry the Passport) and coming thru with what they say. If it had to take them to make the edges rounder to make the deal happen then it shows that they are sticking to their plan?

    Hypothetically, if BlackBerry did not make the round Passport which will mean AT&T will not carry the Passport. Would that mean that Chen says one thing (Sept 24 announcement that AT&T will carry the Passport) and change direction (2015 AT&T will not carry the Passport because they did not make the Passport rounded)?

    It seems to me that the current scenario unfolding shows he has planned this all along, as early as the launch date of the Passport. As early as Sept 24, there was already negotiations with AT&T, and the final outcome of that negotiation was just announced this year.

    Now with regard to them coming up with variants, this is being done by all tech companies. It is only iPhone that used to only make one variant. But even they changed their stance and it started with the 5C then the 6 and the 6 Plus. So has Apple also lost their direction?


    Posted via CB10
    thedose likes this.
    01-09-15 06:41 PM
  25. luigieagle's Avatar
    Yes. It still is a good campaign. Their target never was to convert all 39M iPhone users to Blackberry. Their target was to let people know that they have a phone better than iPhone that they are willing to let you trade-up for it. That has been done a lot of times especially in technology. There was a campaign a while back to buy a new printer for 50% off if you turn in your old one. Do they really expect everyone to change? No. But will it get people's attention with that ploy? Yes.

    Car dealers also have this campaign, trade in your car for a new one. They won't buy your car at full price but it's current market value. Same goes with the iphone trade, lots of conditions need to be met for the iPhone to be valued at a certain price. This is a marketing campaign which actually costs lower than hiring a high profile celebrity to endorse your product.

    Also, as I stated before, how is coming up with a rounded Passport a sign of them not having direction? How is it a sign of them saying one thing and doing another? It is in fact a sign of them saying one thing (they said last Sept 24 that AT&T will eventually carry the Passport) and coming thru with what they say. If it had to take them to make the edges rounder to make the deal happen then it shows that they are sticking to their plan?

    Hypothetically, if BlackBerry did not make the round Passport which will mean AT&T will not carry the Passport. Would that mean that Chen says one thing (Sept 24 announcement that AT&T will carry the Passport) and change direction (2015 AT&T will not carry the Passport because they did not make the Passport rounded)?

    It seems to me that the current scenario unfolding shows he has planned this all along, as early as the launch date of the Passport. As early as Sept 24, there was already negotiations with AT&T, and the final outcome of that negotiation was just announced this year.

    Now with regard to them coming up with variants, this is being done by all tech companies. It is only iPhone that used to only make one variant. But even they changed their stance and it started with the 5C then the 6 and the 6 Plus. So has Apple also lost their direction?


    Posted via CB10
    Ok if you want to see it like that is fine. But reality is one and I see no results. I still don't know any single person with a blackberry besides me.

    Posted via CB10
    01-09-15 06:50 PM
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