[Zedd88]

Ok if you want to see it like that is fine. But reality is one and I see no results. I still don't know any single person with a blackberry besides me.

Posted via CB10

Now you are confusing me. You said you don't want Blackberry to be a phone for the masses. Yet you expect every other person to have a Blackberry.

Also, it's not how I want to see it. I refuted your claims by giving examples. You give out blank generalization statements without backing it up. And when I do refute your claims you now make another one.

Now your gripe is nobody else but you have it. Yet any attempts of a marketing campaign by them (iPhone trade up) is a bad decision.

Posted via CB10

[luigieagle]

Now you are confusing me. You said you don't want Blackberry to be a phone for the masses. Yet you expect every other person to have a Blackberry.

Also, it's not how I want to see it. I refuted your claims by giving examples. You give out blank generalization statements without backing it up. And when I do refute your claims you now make another one.

Now your gripe is nobody else but you have it. Yet any attempts of a marketing campaign by them (iPhone trade up) is a bad decision.

Posted via CB10

No way! What I mean is easy: bad decisions in the company. That's it. No results with the "smart" campaigns

Posted via CB10

[aiharkness]

Ok if you want to see it like that is fine. But reality is one and I see no results. I still don't know any single person with a blackberry besides me.

Posted via CB10

Not disputing the situation, just your attribution of cause.

Those who think there was a time when BlackBerry was popular, really? Not in my circles. Never.

I started using a BlackBerry as a personal device before CrackBerry existed. RIM was flying high. But the only BlackBerry devices I had seen were employer-issued. No one I knew was using a BlackBerry as a personal device. No one I knew was using a smartphone.

Three, at most four, colleagues bought BlackBerrys for personal use following my lead. The rest, those with mobile phones anyway, stuck with their regular cell phone.

When the iPhone was released a few colleagues switched to it from their regular cell phone, and later more switched. Over time more switched to smartphones, but not BlackBerry. The three or four that had switched to BlackBerry in the early days following me eventually switched to an iPhone or an Android model of some flavor or another. Now everyone, practically, has a smartphone, but not a BlackBerry.

I know there was a spike in non-business users when the 8100 was released because I saw it in new members on the forums, but I didn't see it in the wild. I did not see a BlackBerry boom.

So @luigieagle, if you want many friends who use a BlackBerry, you will have to find them online. I never ever knew but a few people using BlackBerry as a personal device. I do know many who have a corporate BlackBerry, including myself, but nowadays I don't know anyone personally, face-to-face, other than online friends I've never met, who have a BlackBerry as a personal device. Sad as it is, this probably isn't going to change, because - RIM's mistakes aside - BlackBerry appeals to and has always appealed to, a different type of user.

[luigieagle]

Not disputing the situation, just your attribution of cause.

Those who think there was a time when BlackBerry was popular, really? Not in my circles. Never.

I started using a BlackBerry as a personal device before CrackBerry existed. RIM was flying high. But the only BlackBerry devices I had seen were employer-issued. No one I knew was using a BlackBerry as a personal device. No one I knew was using a smartphone.

Three, at most four, colleagues bought BlackBerrys for personal use following my lead. The rest, those with mobile phones anyway, stuck with their regular cell phone.

When the iPhone was released a few colleagues switched to it from their regular cell phone, and later more switched. Over time more switched to smartphones, but not BlackBerry. The three or four that had switched to BlackBerry in the early days following me eventually switched to an iPhone or an Android model of some flavor or another.

I know there was a spike in non-business users when the 8100 was released because I saw it in new members on the forums, but I didn't see it in the wild. I did not see a BlackBerry bloom.

So @luigieagle, if you want many friends who use a BlackBerry, you will have to find them online. I never ever knew but a few people using BlackBerry as a personal device. I do know many who have a corporate BlackBerry, including myself, but nowadays I don't know anyone personally, face-to-face, other than online friends I've never met, who have a BlackBerry as a personal device. Sad as it is, this probably isn't going to change, because - RIM's mistakes aside - BlackBerry appeals to and has always appealed to, a different type of user.

No buddy y, I don't mean I want friends with blackberry but would be great. I just say there is no good decisions. That's all. And I do not know where you're from but blackberry was number one a years ago.

Posted via CB10

[Zedd88]

No way! What I mean is easy: bad decisions in the company. That's it. No results with the "smart" campaigns

Posted via CB10

Try to make a SWOT analysis of the Blackberry and the Passport and you will see that their decisions sound. Or better yet, let's make a simple decision quadrant of the decision to make a Round Passport. Take note when making decisions you don't know the output yet.

In making the Round Passport, cost is relatively low as compared to making a new product line. Let's face it it is basically the same phone with a different aesthetics. What are the opportunities? Basically you open yourself up to a new distribution channel and to a potential AT&T customer base. What do you stand to lose if the rounded Passport does not succeed? Basically the small cost it takes to alter the original Passport. Seems like a sound decision to me.

Let's make the same matrix for their iPhone trade up. How much does the campaign cost? Again relatively low. What are the opportunities? Possible defection, but more importantly your product is being talked about and compared to the iPhone. Now the results, there are two ways to measure the success of Marketing campaign. One is to measure if the message got across to your intended audience. Another way is to measure sales figure. We are not privy to the sales figure so let's base it on their target audience. Didn't the promo cause a buzz and even appeared on the news. So on that end it was a success. For your sales figure, if a marketing campaign increased sales by 10% wouldn't that be considered a success? Now take that into perspective, BlackBerry market share is 1% a 10% increase would mean 1.1% marketshare. Even if the campaign was successful you still wouldn't see it in everybody's hands. Much less the people in your circles. Although personally, I have seen it trickle in my business contacts.

So given all of this, how is it a bad decision again?

Posted via CB10

[crackberry_geek]

Not disputing the situation, just your attribution of cause.

Those who think there was a time when BlackBerry was popular, really? Not in my circles. Never.

I started using a BlackBerry as a personal device before CrackBerry existed. RIM was flying high. But the only BlackBerry devices I had seen were employer-issued. No one I knew was using a BlackBerry as a personal device. No one I knew was using a smartphone.

Three, at most four, colleagues bought BlackBerrys for personal use following my lead. The rest, those with mobile phones anyway, stuck with their regular cell phone.

When the iPhone was released a few colleagues switched to it from their regular cell phone, and later more switched. Over time more switched to smartphones, but not BlackBerry. The three or four that had switched to BlackBerry in the early days following me eventually switched to an iPhone or an Android model of some flavor or another. Now everyone, practically, has a smartphone, but not a BlackBerry.

I know there was a spike in non-business users when the 8100 was released because I saw it in new members on the forums, but I didn't see it in the wild. I did not see a BlackBerry boom.

So @luigieagle, if you want many friends who use a BlackBerry, you will have to find them online. I never ever knew but a few people using BlackBerry as a personal device. I do know many who have a corporate BlackBerry, including myself, but nowadays I don't know anyone personally, face-to-face, other than online friends I've never met, who have a BlackBerry as a personal device. Sad as it is, this probably isn't going to change, because - RIM's mistakes aside - BlackBerry appeals to and has always appealed to, a different type of user.

Not sure where you were hiding. BlackBerry's used to be all over the place... even with kids about a decade ago.

And they could be again with just a simple advertising campaign.

But BlackBerry would rather claim defeat from the jaws of victory... and stubbornly march down the delusional path that enterprise software will save the day.

Posted via CB10

[SK122387]

Not sure where you were hiding. BlackBerry's used to be all over the place... even with kids about a decade ago.

And they could be again with just a simple advertising campaign.

But BlackBerry would rather claim defeat from the jaws of victory... and stubbornly march down the delusional path that enterprise software will save the day.

Posted via CB10

You're right in that BlackBerrys were all over, the Curve 8300 especially.

But to say that BlackBerry would "rather claim defeat" is wrong. If BlackBerry could snap its fingers and become as big as Apple amongst consumers, I bet they would.

They wasted so much money trying to be something they're not. Would you rather them pump out a few more touch screen devices, just to have them end up like the Z10 and cost the company nearly a billion dollars? How many more times do you suggest BlackBerry keep trying the same thing? And their enterprise focus is turning out to be saving the day, so you can't argue that it's not working. If BlackBerry was only in the consumer space, BlackBerry would be doomed.

Posted via CB10

[Im Mo Green]

Not sure where you were hiding. BlackBerry's used to be all over the place... even with kids about a decade ago.

And they could be again with just a simple advertising campaign.

But BlackBerry would rather claim defeat from the jaws of victory... and stubbornly march down the delusional path that enterprise software will save the day.

Posted via CB10

The only thing that is simple is your mind and logic. You dont have a clue!!!!

[aiharkness]

I know there are places in the world where BlackBerry is very popular. I wasn't thinking about that when I posted above, and I was writing about my observations.

I live and work in the USA. I travel a lot. Many in my circles have a business BlackBerry issued by their employer. Or, many nowadays have a device, almost always an iPhone, subsidized by their employer. And as I say, what I see among friends and colleagues, and what I see in the wild (and I travel a lot) BlackBerry was never popular as a personal device. When people started switching from regular cell phones to smart phones they switched to iPhone and Android devices.

Bash the USA if you want. Yes there are other markets besides North America. Just saying what I observed. And I don't see it changing.

[yohannrjm]

True, but those were carrier specific devices. Its not like BB released the Torch and then AT&T came back to them and said "That's great and all but we want it to be different looking than the device you've already released." Same with the Storm, they built what they asked for, but didn't change a design that was already released to the market.

AT&T has done to the same to other manufacturers in the past. For example, the Samsung Captivate was the AT&T version of the Galaxy S, and had a different design and specs when compared to other Galaxy S devices. Similarly, they asked for certain specs on Windows Phones, angering some Lumia users. They don't dictate to Apple, but that's it.

[kthhrrsn]

That's exactly what I mean. Blackberry Passport suppose to be for a business men market, not for everyone... not for the masses. Few months later they change the model because ATT didn't like the original and the goal is the masses... Does it mean they know where they are going? Is the Passport for business men or for the masses? Looks like they don't even know where is the target.
And I would like to say I love my Passport and I sold my iPhone 6 to get the Passport and no regrets. I love it and I think it is a great phone, but the people in charge don't know exactly what they are doing.
I hope I'm wrong because I would love BB to survive.

The shape of the edge isn't a business requirement. The wider screen, wider keyboard, faster processor, etc. are the things that meet the needs of prosumers.

If the choice is have no US carrier support or round off the edges, what would you do? AT&T has a HUGE business division! I'm typing this response from a company bought Passport on a company paid AT&T service plan.

They need AT&T's business consumers to push their device. And there are masses of business users in the US.

Posted via CB10 using my Passport

[kthhrrsn]

I'm agreed, if BB wants to sell 39 million phones as iPhone, it's good. They are in the phone business and that must be the goal. But going back to the intention of my post is that saying one thing first and another 4 months later, means you don't know your goal. They can make another phone for the masses, but rounded one that suppose to be for business men and not the masses and target the masses now is like having not a clear target.
As I said, my english is not very good and it is very hard to me express exactly what I want. It is just that I think they are not very clear in what they are doing. They're just testing here and testing there. But, believe me, I want them to do things good because I love BB.

I don't understand why you're so offended that AT&T requested a uniquely shaped device and BlackBerry complied. To me, it doesn't mean that BlackBerry is unfocused or doesn't know what they're doing. It doesn't mean the Passport isn't targeted at business and industrial users. It doesn't mean that anything about the Passport or its value proposition has changed. It does mean that AT&T will sell it with rounded edges vs. sharp edges. Period.

BlackBerry has said that they need to sell a certain # of devices per year in order to be profitable in the hardware space. Otherwise, they'd get out of the hardware business.

In order to meet that objective, they really do need the support of a US carrier. AT&T has a very robust business division with millions of customers. AT&T probably believes they know their customers very well and probably thought the hard edges would be too much of a departure for their business customers from the rest of the pack.

Keep in mind that BlackBerry's currently targeted business users are currently using other devices. And those devices are more like what AT&T has requested. You may disagree, but it was really AT&T's prerogative to ask for a modification to the design. Fulfillment of that request, from the 2nd largest carrier in the US, is not a sign of confusion. It's a sign that BlackBerry is listening...and that they are nimble.

One thing they shouldn't do is get rigid and righteous and refuse to accommodate partners because they've made a principled decision. It's good to see BlackBerry working with its partners vs. constantly seeing signs of partners working against BlackBerry.

Posted via CB10 using my Passport

[TheBirdDog]

The shape of the edge isn't a business requirement. The wider screen, wider keyboard, faster processor, etc. are the things that meet the needs of prosumers.

If the choice is have no US carrier support or round off the edges, what would you do? AT&T has a HUGE business division! I'm typing this response from a company bought Passport on a company paid AT&T service plan.

They need AT&T's business consumers to push their device. And there are masses of business users in the US.

Posted via CB10 using my Passport

As I started to read this thread, this was my exact thought... Glad it was the most recent post as this seems to be extremely relevant. BlackBerry is targeting business and enterprise. That has not changed! AT&T has a huge amount of business accounts and most businesses will buy subsidized phones rather than purchasing them outright.
I was put off by the decision to change the design of the Passport as I thought the original was a very bold design to begin with. However, if this is the only way for BlackBerry to access a large section of their target market, then it is a smart decision. I'm sure that they didn't make this decision on a gamble. AT&T must have given them some sort of guarantee. There is no question that this will mean more profit for the company and more marketing from the carriers. It's a win /win.

Posted via my BlackBerry Passport

[kthhrrsn]

As I started to read this thread, this was my exact thought... Glad it was the most recent post as this seems to be extremely relevant. BlackBerry is targeting business and enterprise. That has not changed! AT&T has a huge amount of business accounts and most businesses will buy subsidized phones rather than purchasing them outright.
I was put off by the decision to change the design of the Passport as I thought the original was a very bold design to begin with. However, if this is the only way for BlackBerry to access a large section of their target market, then it is a smart decision. I'm sure that they didn't make this decision on a gamble. AT&T must have given them some sort of guarantee. There is no question that this will mean more profit for the company and more marketing from the carriers. It's a win /win.

Posted via my BlackBerry Passport

I agree! BB is still targeting business users, and by softening the edges, they gained the much needed support of AT&T! They clearly won't have T-Mobile's support. And the fact that a CDMA version hasn't been made leads me to believe they won't be getting Verizon's support either. The US is a critically important market.

[luigieagle]

I think there is a lot of misunderstood with my post. I never said I do not want Blackberry to sell phones or something like that. The point is the title of the post: "Too many changes".
For experience I know that when somebody makes changes too fast there is not a clear goal, there is no good plans. That is all I mean.
I don't have any problem with the edges of the phone, but with the fast changes they are making that seems, to me, are not well planed. And I go back to what a I already said: the campaigns Blackberry are making are not working. A company is successful or unsuccessful because of their decisions and we can not say right now that Blackberry is successful. You can find any justifications, but the reality is that the days of glory are so far from now. And is not because of the phone, is because of the decisions. The phone is great, but people don't trust in Blackberry anymore.
Do you think ATT could be the solution? The ATT employees don't even know that Blackberry still makes phones. They told me that yesterday again!!!!!!

[kthhrrsn]

I think there is a lot of misunderstood with my post. I never said I do not want Blackberry to sell phones or something like that. The point is the title of the post: "Too many changes".
For experience I know that when somebody makes changes too fast there is not a clear goal, there is no good plans. That is all I mean.
I don't have any problem with the edges of the phone, but with the fast changes they are making that seems, to me, are not well planed. And I go back to what a I already said: the campaigns Blackberry are making are not working. A company is successful or unsuccessful because of their decisions and we can not say right now that Blackberry is successful. You can find any justifications, but the reality is that the days of glory are so far from now.

I believe we get what you're saying, but I, for one, disagree. Going from sharp edges to rounded edges does not indicate that BlackBerry doesn't have a clear plan. They didn't round off the edges because they were unsure about Passport's design or their strategy for success. They did it because AT&T requested it. And BlackBerry needs their support. Period.

[niss63]

i agree...the q10 sucked...bad. I got the q 10, was severely disappointed....then went to the note 2, huawei mate 1, the q5 (which i loved), iPhone 5 (hated it), s4 (hated it more) and to the passport.

Hunh?

I've had a couple of Q10's, but not a Q5 (which I understand to be a watered-down Q10)...what was it about the Q5 that you liked vs. the Q10, which you disliked?

Posted via CB10

[niss63]

Do you think ATT could be the solution? The ATT employees don't even know that Blackberry still makes phones. They told me that yesterday again!!!!!!

AT&T sells a lot of phones...

My local store will know when I purchase a round cornered Passport from them in a couple of months. The round corners changed my mind about trying out the passport.

Posted via CB10

[Zedd88]

I think there is a lot of misunderstood with my post. I never said I do not want Blackberry to sell phones or something like that. The point is the title of the post: "Too many changes".
For experience I know that when somebody makes changes too fast there is not a clear goal, there is no good plans. That is all I mean.
I don't have any problem with the edges of the phone, but with the fast changes they are making that seems, to me, are not well planed. And I go back to what a I already said: the campaigns Blackberry are making are not working. A company is successful or unsuccessful because of their decisions and we can not say right now that Blackberry is successful. You can find any justifications, but the reality is that the days of glory are so far from now. And is not because of the phone, is because of the decisions. The phone is great, but people don't trust in Blackberry anymore.
Do you think ATT could be the solution? The ATT employees don't even know that Blackberry still makes phones. They told me that yesterday again!!!!!!

We get what you are saying. We don't agree with it and are presenting arguments to refute your claim. Again, what made you say they are making changes too fast? On Passport's release date on Sept 24, it was already announced that AT&T will carry it sometime in the future. Three and a half months later, the rounded edges comes out for AT&T. What does that tell you? As early as three months ago or even more, negotiations with AT&T was already in the making. So what made you came to the conclusion that it was a hasty decision? It was all planned out as early as Sept 2014.

Also your statement, "For experience I know that when somebody makes changes too fast there is not a clear goal, there is no good plan" is incorrect. In Business, you have to make subtle changes along the way. Because you have to be dynamic. If you go one direction then suddenly went 180 degrees or completely a different direction then that means you have wrong planning. But if your still going in the same direction but just making subtle adjustment to your course then that is pretty normal. In fact, that's having a clear plan and seeing it thru. So what wasn't planned about Blackberry's moves so far? (see my statement above about AT&T announcement last Sept 2014)

Yes, Blackberry made a lot of wrong decisions in the past. That's why they are in this boat. But they are starting to right the boat. And the wrong decisions in the past done by previous management doesn't make the decisions done now to be wrong.

Again, what campaign are you referring to that does not work? The trade-up program? Your calling it a wrong decision when with that program they have a campaign that cost so little and have people talking about the phone. What would you rather have? They get a high profile Celebrity to campaign for their product and launch a massive Advertising campaign? Cost wise that would cost very huge thus the risk is high if the campaign does not work.

Posted via CB10

[luigieagle]

We get what you are saying. We don't agree with it and are presenting arguments to refute your claim. Again, what made you say they are making changes too fast? On Passport's release date on Sept 24, it was already announced that AT&T will carry it sometime in the future. Three and a half months later, the rounded edges comes out for AT&T. What does that tell you? As early as three months ago or even more, negotiations with AT&T was already in the making. So what made you came to the conclusion that it was a hasty decision? It was all planned out as early as Sept 2014.

Also your statement, "For experience I know that when somebody makes changes too fast there is not a clear goal, there is no good plan" is incorrect. In Business, you have to make subtle changes along the way. Because you have to be dynamic. If you go one direction then suddenly went 180 degrees or completely a different direction then that means you have wrong planning. But if your still going in the same direction but just making subtle adjustment to your course then that is pretty normal. In fact, that's having a clear plan and seeing it thru. So what wasn't planned about Blackberry's moves so far? (see my statement above about AT&T announcement last Sept 2014)

Yes, Blackberry made a lot of wrong decisions in the past. That's why they are in this boat. But they are starting to right the boat. And the wrong decisions in the past done by previous management doesn't make the decisions done now to be wrong.

Again, what campaign are you referring to that does not work? The trade-up program? Your calling it a wrong decision when with that program they have a campaign that cost so little and have people talking about the phone. What would you rather have? They get a high profile Celebrity to campaign for their product and launch a massive Advertising campaign? Cost wise that would cost very huge thus the risk is high if the campaign does not work.

Posted via CB10

Well, we'll see the results, because only results talk louder and I haven't seen any results yet. And believe me, I really want to see Blackberry in first place as they used to be years ago, but I'm realist and don't see anything yet. I have a Passport and used to have a Q10, and actually change my iphone 6 for the Passport, but still hope to see results.

[luigieagle]

with that program they have a campaign that cost so little and have people talking about the phone

Yes, people is talking about the phone saying: "Blackberry has to pay for having customers, hahahaha". That's what people is talking about the phone.

[Jay is back on CrackBezee]

Square PP looks more original and executive chic anyway to me .

[aseeralmadi]

Where is the problem with "what you want " ?

[IanThomas]

I live in Hong Kong. Across the border Huawei and Xiomai are changing the designs of their phones all the time. 'You want a phone that looks like the latest Apple? Check.' 'You want a phone that looks like an Apple at half the price? Check.' Their phones are flying out of the factories. Copiers? Sure. Unethical? Probably. Successful? You bet. And the OP thinks that a manufacturer of phones AND the maintainer of a superb but niche os is losing focus by making a small design change for a significant distributor of its phones? Sheesh! Can you imagine the conversation that John Chen should have had with the head of AT&T?? 'Sorry old chap, it's the square corners or nothing. What? Oh, nothing it is then. Well, next year perhaps then...'. Meanwhile, back on Planet Reality...

Posted via CB10

[anon(679606)]

Open commerce with brisk competition breeds innovation & price adkustment... BlackBerry somehow thinks charging their customers double for the ephone will be a winner... the Chinese realize that

I live in Hong Kong. Across the border Huawei and Xiomai are changing the designs of their phones all the time. 'You want a phone that looks like the latest Apple? Check.' 'You want a phone that looks like an Apple at half the price? Check.' Their phones are flying out of the factories. Copiers? Sure. Unethical? Probably. Successful? You bet. And the OP thinks that a manufacturer of phones AND the maintainer of a superb but niche os is losing focus by making a small design change for a significant distributor of its phones? Sheesh! Can you imagine the conversation that John Chen should have had with the head of AT&T?? 'Sorry old chap, it's the square corners or nothing. What? Oh, nothing it is then. Well, next year perhaps then...'. Meanwhile, back on Planet Reality...

Posted via CB10