07-02-14 02:00 PM
129 ... 3456
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  1. matt4pack's Avatar
    Can't please everyone as is expected.

    Posted via CB10
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    06-26-14 05:55 PM
  2. tp2386's Avatar
    Hey, have fun with your buddy there in your newly created "I don't know how to read the original topic" club. :-)

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    I read the OP. Guess I should have quoted some of the people complaining. It was directed at you.
    I don't see the problem with this keyboard. The 4th row will just be virtual when needed. Brilliant if you ask me. To each his own I guess.
    06-26-14 07:29 PM
  3. slagman5's Avatar
    I read the OP. Guess I should have quoted some of the people complaining. It was directed at you.
    I don't see the problem with this keyboard. The 4th row will just be virtual when needed. Brilliant if you ask me. To each his own I guess.
    Since I'm the OP, and that's not the point of this thread, again, have fun in your club there. :-)

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-26-14 09:20 PM
  4. KenFletch's Avatar
    Hey stagnant. Reread the OP and you basic questions. Why did they take away the 4th row? Is a good question.

    The answer is right there.

    They wanted what you see, bold and different.

    Max screen. Pkb. Best of pkb and touch KB.

    A bold attention getting appearance.

    The AMG Mercedes of smart phones. Most won't be able to afford it. Some will think it ugly and over the top. It comes with compromises but they will be worth it for the ones who want it.

    So: different on purpose.

    And of course the 4th row is still there. It just moved up.

    I want it. But now I'm thinking. If three rows works. Then where is my slider???? Crap.

    HTC TOUCH, Nokia-N97, BlackBerry Torch 9800, Z10
    06-26-14 10:56 PM
  5. slagman5's Avatar
    Hey stagnant. Reread the OP and you basic questions. Why did they take away the 4th row? Is a good question.

    The answer is right there.

    They wanted what you see, bold and different.

    Max screen. Pkb. Best of pkb and touch KB.

    A bold attention getting appearance.

    The AMG Mercedes of smart phones. Most won't be able to afford it. Some will think it ugly and over the top. It comes with compromises but they will be worth it for the ones who want it.

    So: different on purpose.

    And of course the 4th row is still there. It just moved up.

    I want it. But now I'm thinking. If three rows works. Then where is my slider???? Crap.

    HTC TOUCH, Nokia-N97, BlackBerry Torch 9800, Z10
    Max screen? My mock-up has the same exact size screen... But if you're just going to go with that, then alrighty. Good show buddy. :-)

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-26-14 11:56 PM
  6. clickitykeys's Avatar
    I side with the OP on this. It would have been worthwhile to have a Q10-like keyboard, with added functionality such as flicking and swipe-to-delete. The 3-row keyboard, with its contextually intelligent keyboard, seems fine as a "proof of concept", but I don't think it is optimal for usability.
    06-27-14 12:59 AM
  7. MrGlenn's Avatar
    I stick to my point earlier, which was a direct response to the OP (or was that in one of the other five threads about this issue? Oh well):
    Would "the fourth row" have made this device even better? Let us assume that it would. Why would BlackBerry leave it out then? If it would be better, they surely would have added it; they are not rookies when it comes to keyboard design.

    That leads me to believe that it may simply be impossible due to hardware limitations. If this touch sensitive keyboard cannot handle multiple physical keystrokes simultaneously, adding a Shift/Alt key becomes useless.
    Just an example of how hardware limitations could have made these keys obsolete, or impossible to implement in a good way.

    So my answer to you is: the reason they do not add this 4th row is hardware limitations. And what you get in return is a virtual fourth row, which in all likelihood will mean you can actually type symbols a little faster.

    Until we actually get some insight into the real mechanics behind the keyboard, we cannot answer your question with anything other than speculation.

    BlackBerry 10 signed.
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    06-27-14 07:11 AM
  8. II ARROWS's Avatar
    Now you are just climbing mirrors...
    Maybe the new keyboard doesn't support key presses!
    06-27-14 07:37 AM
  9. MrGlenn's Avatar
    I am just doing the opposite of what you are suggesting, nothing else. You assume the 4th physical row would be possible, and therefore it would be better.
    I am assuming the 4th row is not possible, or it would not be able to work as you expect, so it would not be better.
    Depends on whether you have faith in BlackBerry and their ability to make keyboards, I do not think they would omit the 4th row without a legitimate reason.

    That is all.
    _____

    PS: you are the ones who insisted on a response to that question. I am sorry my answer does not agree with you. But honestly that question is so loaded to begin the only way to answer is either to just meekly agree, or disagree by thinking of hypothetical reasons. So I did the latter.

    BlackBerry 10 signed.
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    06-27-14 09:51 AM
  10. slagman5's Avatar
    I am just doing the opposite of what you are suggesting, nothing else. You assume the 4th physical row would be possible, and therefore it would be better.
    I am assuming the 4th row is not possible, or it would not be able to work as you expect, so it would not be better.
    Depends on whether you have faith in BlackBerry and their ability to make keyboards, I do not think they would omit the 4th row without a legitimate reason.

    That is all.
    _____

    PS: you are the ones who insisted on a response to that question. I am sorry my answer does not agree with you. But honestly that question is so loaded to begin the only way to answer is either to just meekly agree, or disagree by thinking of hypothetical reasons. So I did the latter.

    BlackBerry 10 signed.
    Actually, I'm looking for a benefit of cutting the fourth row. It is a design choice. It's 2014, there are no hardware limitations for adding another row of keys to a phone... They could have made a 15-row keyboard if they really wanted to... lol

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-27-14 11:17 AM
  11. KenFletch's Avatar
    Actually, I'm looking for a benefit of cutting the fourth row. It is a design choice. It's 2014, there are no hardware limitations for adding another row of keys to a phone... They could have made a 15-row keyboard if they really wanted to... lol

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    Answered your own question. That wasn't so tough. You don't agree. That's cool man.

    HTC TOUCH, Nokia-N97, BlackBerry Torch 9800, Z10
    06-27-14 11:40 AM
  12. slagman5's Avatar
    Answered your own question. That wasn't so tough. You don't agree. That's cool man.

    HTC TOUCH, Nokia-N97, BlackBerry Torch 9800, Z10
    A "design choice" is not a benefit of doing so. Didn't answer anything. Still waiting. Thanks for trying anyway.

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-27-14 07:05 PM
  13. II ARROWS's Avatar
    I really hope they're gonna fix that for Passport 2...
    06-28-14 03:27 AM
  14. cfoxx's Avatar
    Still nobody can explain why it's better to remove the physical SHIFT and ALT key.

    It seems completely obvious that removing these keys and replacing them with gestures and on-screen buttons is going to slow typing down a whole bunch. So disappointing.
    clickitykeys likes this.
    06-28-14 04:39 AM
  15. MrGlenn's Avatar
    I hope the Passport will enable you to at least read a little less selectively. You can keep repeating all you want that it is impossible for this to be a hardware issue, but the truth is non of us know.

    Your point is that adding these keys would have made it better, and that BlackBerry is stupid for not doing it.
    My point is that BlackBerry is not that stupid, and that removing these keys is just because of some form of (hardware) limitation.

    Until we know the actual details neither of us give a proper answer to your question. So unfortunately all we can do is give some hypothetical reasons. Just keeping on ignoring that, and asking for "reasons" is not helping you stay reasonable.

    BlackBerry 10 signed.
    Thunderbuck and anischab like this.
    06-28-14 07:48 AM
  16. slagman5's Avatar
    I hope the Passport will enable you to at least read a little less selectively. You can keep repeating all you want that it is impossible for this to be a hardware issue, but the truth is non of us know.

    Your point is that adding these keys would have made it better, and that BlackBerry is stupid for not doing it.
    My point is that BlackBerry is not that stupid, and that removing these keys is just because of some form of (hardware) limitation.

    Until we know the actual details neither of us give a proper answer to your question. So unfortunately all we can do is give some hypothetical reasons. Just keeping on ignoring that, and asking for "reasons" is not helping you stay reasonable.

    BlackBerry 10 signed.
    Hey man, thanks for putting words in my mouth, it saves me so much time rather than letting my own words speak for me. My point is that I want to find out if there is a tangible benefit that comes from altering the layout of the keyboard. I don't know how many times I need to repeat that or how I can simplify it so it can be understood by individuals who seem to have trouble understanding it the way it is...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-28-14 10:35 AM
  17. greg_z's Avatar
    So, I've been wondering, I'm all for BB adding new features to the phones, especially the keyboard phones, the capacitive keyboard is actually something I've mentioned to a friend of mine YEARS ago (should have patented it dammit) but in my mind it would be a feature added ON TOP of the already great full keyboard. I don't really understand gimping it by getting rid of the printed numbers and symbols, and getting rid of the alt and shift keys. All of those features on top of an already tried-and-true full qwerty keyboard that doesn't change the arrangement (where the keys are in relation to other keys, half of the bottom row is shifted to the right a full letter and a half) to the keyboard I have at home would actually be quite awesome. Make it so pressing alt will type the printed symbols (most used) and swiping down on the keyboard will bring up the less used symbols, like pressing the sym key. So I can see getting rid of the sym key and replacing it with a dedicated period (.) key. That would be awesome. So someone please explain to me, by changing the keyboard to only 3 rows, shifting half a row of keys over so now their locations in relation to the other keys are altered, what benefit does that really give you? I know your answers, the size, the screen real-estate, yadda yadda yadda. Well, here, I've prepared this for you:
    Attachment 280408
    Seriously, that little difference in size can be mitigated if you just move that chin space under the keyboard up a few millimeters and it's literally the same size... So tell me, how does saving those few millimeters really help? I want to know what great benefit this new 3-row keyboard arrangement will have that the full keyboard could not accommodate???

    I'm honestly asking, if you have an idea of what benefit the new arrangement will have, please share it with me. I really want to know.
    If they would made top bazel slightly narrower than there would be no difference in size at all.
    Just hope that it is not another half baked product and it is what it is because someone rushed it to the market.
    It does not look like another PlayBook, but after PlayBook there will always be concerns.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-14 06:48 PM
  18. vladi's Avatar
    Its about the gimmick that's why.
    07-01-14 06:52 PM
  19. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    If they would made top bazel slightly narrower than there would be no difference in size at all.
    Just hope that it is not another half baked product and it is what it is because someone rushed it to the market.
    It does not look like another PlayBook, but after PlayBook there will always be concerns.

    Posted via CB10
    Woulda shoulda coulda - you don't engineer hardware with photoshop.
    07-02-14 12:54 AM
  20. redsaph's Avatar
    If the keyboard did have the number symbols, alt keys and w.e, then there would've been no point to have a capacitive keyboard.

    Sent from my BlackBerry smartphone.
    07-02-14 12:57 AM
  21. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Actually, I'm looking for a benefit of cutting the fourth row. It is a design choice. It's 2014, there are no hardware limitations for adding another row of keys to a phone... They could have made a 15-row keyboard if they really wanted to... lol

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    If you mean by "design choice" that it was purely for the sake of style, you're wrong.

    I think there was a very deliberate choice to make sure that all the keys on the keyboard were single-purpose, and adding anything past the letters stood the chance of making input confusing for the user.

    That 4th row can change for context (if you're in a password field, for instance, it will change to numbers). I understand it seems odd to put the shift and alt keys in that virtual row but bear in mind that you can use gestures to duplicate their function (hold down a key to get a capital, swipe down from the top physical row to the bottom to activate alt).
    07-02-14 01:45 AM
  22. slagman5's Avatar
    If the keyboard did have the number symbols, alt keys and w.e, then there would've been no point to have a capacitive keyboard.

    Sent from my BlackBerry smartphone.
    Sure there is, swiping left to delete a whole word, using the keyboard as a trackpad (double tap), and accessing the lesser used symbols, like those you get by pressing the "sym" key. I guess you forgot that it does more than just brings up the common symbols?? Lol.

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    07-02-14 03:05 AM
  23. slagman5's Avatar
    If you mean by "design choice" that it was purely for the sake of style, you're wrong.

    I think there was a very deliberate choice to make sure that all the keys on the keyboard were single-purpose, and adding anything past the letters stood the chance of making input confusing for the user.

    That 4th row can change for context (if you're in a password field, for instance, it will change to numbers). I understand it seems odd to put the shift and alt keys in that virtual row but bear in mind that you can use gestures to duplicate their function (hold down a key to get a capital, swipe down from the top physical row to the bottom to activate alt).
    All of those examples you give are not at all faster than simply pressing the shift or alt keys. And actually, I can argue that it's slower... So again, little tricks to alleviate the missing features is not an improvement. I'm looking for an actual BENEFIT to this design choice, not ways that "you can kind of do the same thing" examples...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    07-02-14 03:08 AM
  24. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    All of those examples you give are not at all faster than simply pressing the shift or alt keys. And actually, I can argue that it's slower... So again, little tricks to alleviate the missing features is not an improvement. I'm looking for an actual BENEFIT to this design choice, not ways that "you can kind of do the same thing" examples...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    My take on this is that the Passport is already big enough and I absolutely don't want any additional mms to the phone. I think the typing experience would be somewhat ok (swipe down + press the corresponding hardware key, just as we did with ALT), but what I really fear and don't like is a constant 're-layouting' of the content on screen. Think of entering a chat on the Z10 or activating a text field. The keyboard has to pop up and down and the rest of the content an screen has to adapt its layout to it, which not only takes always a few milliseconds but also oftentimes the animation looks laggy and sloppy. It sucks. What I always loved about the old BBOS QWERTY phones is that the screen content is always fixed and has its real estate, no matter what you do. With the Passport instead, whenever you want to use symbols that sh1t happens. And imagine you're in the flow, typing really fast and want to insert any symbol or special character that giant thing pops up. Really, how quick and smooth can that animation really be if you consider it normally took 0.2 seconds to accomplish this on legacy devices?

    Heck you even have to dial from the touch screen which is nothing but a PITA. How loved it to just type a name or dial a number directly from the homescreen....sigh.

    This whole thing makes my heart bleed. I want that form factor so bad and I want my keyboard back. And now that. I can't wait to see the keyboard actually in action on video. Till then I'm pretty much sitting between chairs....well no, I want to sit down on one awesome chair but fear its legs breaking.
    07-02-14 03:35 AM
  25. slagman5's Avatar
    My take on this is that the Passport is already big enough and I absolutely don't want any additional mms to the phone. I think the typing experience would be somewhat ok (swipe down + press the corresponding hardware key, just as we did with ALT), but what I really fear and don't like is a constant 're-layouting' of the content on screen. Think of entering a chat on the Z10 or activating a text field. The keyboard has to pop up and down and the rest of the content an screen has to adapt its layout to it, which not only takes always a few milliseconds but also oftentimes the animation looks laggy and sloppy. It sucks. What I always loved about the old BBOS QWERTY phones is that the screen content is always fixed and has its real estate, no matter what you do. With the Passport instead, whenever you want to use symbols that sh1t happens. And imagine you're in the flow, typing really fast and want to insert any symbol or special character that giant thing pops up. Really, how quick and smooth can that animation really be if you consider it normally took 0.2 seconds to accomplish this on legacy devices?

    Heck you even have to dial from the touch screen which is nothing but a PITA. How loved it to just type a name or dial a number directly from the homescreen....sigh.

    This whole thing makes my heart bleed. I want that form factor so bad and I want my keyboard back. And now that. I can't wait to see the keyboard actually in action on video. Till then I'm pretty much sitting between chairs....well no, I want to sit down on one awesome chair but fear its legs breaking.
    You're right about the animation thing. I hate that about BB10. I much prefer the old system where when you press the "sym" button the symbol list just appears, no fancy slide up animation, it was instant. I don't want an iphone or android, I don't need some fancy useless animation, I just want to get the typing done, but whatever...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    07-02-14 10:42 AM
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