07-02-14 02:00 PM
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  1. II ARROWS's Avatar
    And who knows what kind of gestures we might get to make the symbols easier. Another good thing (I think) about a partially virtual/touch sensitive keyboard is that they can improve on it with updates.
    Please, stop!
    We all get it, we all want it.

    But it's not an excuse! We could have a full querty keyboard AND gestures. One thing doesn't exclude the other!
    06-26-14 03:15 AM
  2. MrGlenn's Avatar
    One thing doesn't exclude the other!
    Unless maybe they do exclude each other, for some underlying reason. If the 4th row really adds that much, would it not make sense that it is absent for a good reason (BlackBerry is not stupid)?
    Heck for all we know the type of touch interface they use means that simultaneous physical keypresses are impossible (hardware limitation?)! That could be an example of a reason they were forced to make the Shift and Alt virtual.

    Edit in response to below:
    My point being, imagine the physical keyboard can only support one keystroke at a time, then you can not use Shift+symbol or Alt+symbol hardware keys because that would require two simultaneous inputs (can not keep them pressed down if the keypad only responds to the first input).

    But I do not want to go any deeper into hypothetical what-ifs an what-may-bes, because I am sure a lot of people here could think if legitimate reasons why those keys are not present. I think we are all just looking forward to seeing it in action asap.

    BlackBerry 10 signed.
    Last edited by MrGlenn; 06-26-14 at 06:54 AM.
    06-26-14 03:30 AM
  3. II ARROWS's Avatar
    It's not important if the capacitive keyboard supports only one input when shift and alt keys are hardware...

    I already said that: a lot of good products have been destroyed by the design team (as aesthetic). This could be the case.
    It's half good news, because at least means that BB is doing something in that direction...
    06-26-14 03:45 AM
  4. TheoRadu's Avatar
    I reach for the alt key as I'm typing the last normal letter before my desired symbol, so it doesn't take any more time over just pressing one key. And if you think reaching up from the keyboard to touch the screen then moving your thumb back down to the keyboard to continue typing is faster than just typing another letter on the keyboard your thumbs are already over then I guess that's your opinion and I'll just leave it at that...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    You keep saying that you have to reach up, ignoring the fact that the keyboard is now much smaller. Basically the contextual bar on the bottom of the screen is just like the fourth row of keys, it's part of the keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    LeeU1911 likes this.
    06-26-14 03:55 AM
  5. KenFletch's Avatar
    Try this

    Usual 2 handed typing my thumbs at rest are over the middle qwerty row of my Z10 keyboard. The borrow of 4 is a small reach down and the top is up.

    All of the Passport rows are closer to the bottom and the virtual 4th row will be the one closest.

    I'd you widen your position then your thumbs end up lower. Again resting over that Sam oddly row. With a different reach radius.

    A very different position buy all close

    A swipe down to get the symbols is slick and easier than alt. Press and hold for caps works now on all BlackBerry kbs , a A , pretty easy , press a, hold and slide access to get accented character, very easy. Much easier than pkb

    It's a hybrid KB. It will have to be learned. Those who don't want to will have the classic.

    HTC TOUCH, Nokia-N97, BlackBerry Torch 9800, Z10
    06-26-14 07:08 AM
  6. II ARROWS's Avatar
    It's a hybrid KB. It will have to be learned. Those who don't want to will have the classic.
    And that's wrong.
    None ever argued against this simple fact:
    they could implement all this with a full qwerty keyboard, with symbols printed on keys.
    06-26-14 08:12 AM
  7. anischab's Avatar
    And that's wrong.
    None ever argued against this simple fact:
    they could implement all this with a full qwerty keyboard, with symbols printed on keys.
    May be we still can!! The right key on the screen is a [sym] key... I learned that [Sym]+[T] makes a "[" and [sym]+[J] makes a "&" so, may be it is still possible to tap that virtual right key and continue in the same manner!?

    BlackBerry*Q10, T-Mobile Germany - SQN100-3, Running OS 10.2.1.2941
    06-26-14 08:35 AM
  8. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I can tell you why there's no alt or shift key: they behave differently from all other keys. In fact, they modify the behavior of all other keys.

    Since the keyboard gestures involve taps, holds, and swipes that can happen ANYWHERE on the keyboard, all keys have to have a consistent function.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    hazarder likes this.
    06-26-14 09:11 AM
  9. moegh's Avatar
    Simple: the "5" is on the "D"-key...
    But there are no little hints like on the Q10-symbol board, look here's my screenshot:
    Attachment 280581
    They absolutely should correct that!!!

    BlackBerry*Q10, T-Mobile Germany - SQN100-3, Running OS 10.2.1.2941

    Someone explain to me how these few mm's really help...-1403784244595_350759.jpeg

    Q5-10.3.0.296/441(radio)
    06-26-14 09:37 AM
  10. KenFletch's Avatar
    And that's wrong.
    None ever argued against this simple fact:
    they could implement all this with a full qwerty keyboard, with symbols printed on keys.
    WRONG!!!!!

    hey bud, it's all opinions out here.

    I switched from Tprch to Z10 and had to LEARN a new keyboard, it was traumatic but I'm OK now.

    It's different, not wrong.

    for Classic experience there is Classic , but that may also prove to be WRONG , the run of extra 9900s might be WRONG, apparently the Z3 pricing in India is WRONG ....


    clearly BB knows nothing about keyboards , Foxconn knows nothing about product prodcution and supply chain manamgment, and Chen is WRONG about it all

    all the wisdom is here with nervous nellies on CB forums

    we'll see, I think this device will sell and sell well as a limited volume prestige item , but I could be WRONG , could you be WRONG?
    Rowan M likes this.
    06-26-14 09:45 AM
  11. KenFletch's Avatar
    I can tell you why there's no alt or shift key: they behave differently from all other keys. In fact, they modify the behavior of all other keys.

    Since the keyboard gestures involve taps, holds, and swipes that can happen ANYWHERE on the keyboard, all keys have to have a consistent function.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    stop making sense , new bad, different bad
    06-26-14 09:46 AM
  12. KenFletch's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Q5-10.3.0.296/441(radio)
    except remember for PKB users you don't look anyway and you fingers are on the keys so the little numbers and symbols are just reminders

    since the vitual keys are mapped to the hard keys then the reminder is still there, can use either keyboard, all good

    need + sign ,

    Passport: swipe down on PKB and press O,
    OR swipe down and press + on VKB

    Z10 : press $123 then +
    OR swipe down and press +

    old style PKB alt - O what letter was that again

    almost the same

    for other symbols

    it's swipe swipe, select, with KB mapping on Passport( 4th row num/symb vkb button twice)
    swipe swipe select on Z10
    traditional BB password , its symbol and remember which is which for BBOS phones
    ( sorry not sure, does BB10 give a reminder vkb for q10, q5?)

    horrible, truly horrible, a disaster , wrong wrong wrong




    old style would be alt-M, 2 actions for either style
    06-26-14 10:04 AM
  13. Imran Choudhury's Avatar
    Dont know what the f-ing fuss is about.
    For a traditional keyboard get the bloody Classic!!!!

    Look at your keyboard at work or home, go on have a look!!!!

    Right you have seen it? Now if the virtual keyboard (above the physical one) the contains numbers and some symbols I am happy.
    they are trying something different here, let them try it. I was looking forward to it, then the last leaks slightly disappointed me.
    The I was thinking looking at my keyboard on the desk if its anything similar it shouldn't be that bad.

    I hope i P'd off the moaners, and have given some hope to the skepticals
    if your a traditionalist just get the bloody Classic.
    tp2386 likes this.
    06-26-14 11:49 AM
  14. tp2386's Avatar
    ^Exactly. Get the classic if this is such a big issue. Heck, I believe that's the reason they made both because some would complain about the keyboard on the passport.
    Sent from my RM-893_nam_tmous_201 using Tapatalk
    06-26-14 12:17 PM
  15. slagman5's Avatar
    You keep saying that you have to reach up, ignoring the fact that the keyboard is now much smaller. Basically the contextual bar on the bottom of the screen is just like the fourth row of keys, it's part of the keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    So, why couldn't have been the actual fourth row on the keyboard and not taking up screen space? That's what I keep asking and never get an answer to...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-26-14 01:51 PM
  16. slagman5's Avatar
    Please, stop!
    We all get it, we all want it.

    But it's not an excuse! We could have a full querty keyboard AND gestures. One thing doesn't exclude the other!
    Thanks man, nobody can seem to provide an answer to that. Why couldn't it have been both...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-26-14 01:54 PM
  17. slagman5's Avatar
    Dont know what the f-ing fuss is about.
    For a traditional keyboard get the bloody Classic!!!!

    Look at your keyboard at work or home, go on have a look!!!!

    Right you have seen it? Now if the virtual keyboard (above the physical one) the contains numbers and some symbols I am happy.
    they are trying something different here, let them try it. I was looking forward to it, then the last leaks slightly disappointed me.
    The I was thinking looking at my keyboard on the desk if its anything similar it shouldn't be that bad.

    I hope i P'd off the moaners, and have given some hope to the skepticals
    if your a traditionalist just get the bloody Classic.
    Wow, I guess someone doesn't believe in reading? Who is asking for a classic typing experience? My point is they could have added all of the new features to a full keyboard and have had the best of both worlds and I'm looking for a reason why that wasn't possible. No answer yet. And I don't need to look at my keyboard at home, I memorized where every key is in relation to every other key, so I know all of that without having to look... Can't say the same for the new keyboard though since they shifted half the bottom row of keys over a full key length and a half over to the right to accommodate the little stubby space bar between the V and B...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-26-14 02:02 PM
  18. slagman5's Avatar
    ^Exactly. Get the classic if this is such a big issue. Heck, I believe that's the reason they made both because some would complain about the keyboard on the passport.
    Sent from my RM-893_nam_tmous_201 using Tapatalk
    Hey, have fun with your buddy there in your newly created "I don't know how to read the original topic" club. :-)

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-26-14 02:03 PM
  19. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    So, why couldn't have been the actual fourth row on the keyboard and not taking up screen space? That's what I keep asking and never get an answer to...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    Added cost, size, complexity?

    Also, given the multi-function nature of the keyboard itself, perhaps it was thought potentially too confusing to include numbers/symbols on it. Especially since shift/alt keys have to be rendered virtually anyway.
    06-26-14 02:20 PM
  20. TheoRadu's Avatar
    So, why couldn't have been the actual fourth row on the keyboard and not taking up screen space? That's what I keep asking and never get an answer to...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    Well it could have been, but they chose a different solution that is just as good and in some ways better: a contextual row of symbols makes typing with one hand easier. Now let's get on with our lives and wait until we can actually try the damn thing.

    Posted via CB10
    06-26-14 02:28 PM
  21. hazarder's Avatar
    Why does this thread still continue?
    Just useless speculation and arguing.
    Arguing for what? I honestly do not know lol there are no answers, want to know why slagman? Because the phone has not been released yet. People, have patience just have patience. You don't get why there isn't an additional row, Noone does. Whether good or bad, we shall see.

    Posted via my STILL NEW Zed30
    06-26-14 02:40 PM
  22. slagman5's Avatar
    Why does this thread still continue?
    Just useless speculation and arguing.
    Arguing for what? I honestly do not know lol there are no answers, want to know why slagman? Because the phone has not been released yet. People, have patience just have patience. You don't get why there isn't an additional row, Noone does. Whether good or bad, we shall see.

    Posted via my STILL NEW Zed30
    Hey man, I'm sorry you were forced to come read this thread.

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-26-14 02:55 PM
  23. II ARROWS's Avatar
    Also, given the multi-function nature of the keyboard itself, perhaps it was thought potentially too confusing to include numbers/symbols on it.
    Oh yeah... That seems legit.
    In fact, I got confused all the time!
    06-26-14 02:56 PM
  24. II ARROWS's Avatar
    Well it could have been, but they chose a different solution that is just as good and in some ways better: a contextual row of symbols makes typing with one hand easier. Now let's get on with our lives and wait until we can actually try the damn thing.
    Oh come on! Typing with one hand on that monster?
    That thing is wide as the Niagara, I'm stretching using the Q10 one handed!
    06-26-14 03:00 PM
  25. hazarder's Avatar
    Hey man, I'm sorry you were forced to come read this thread.

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    Now why would you assume that?

    Posted via my STILL NEW Zed30
    06-26-14 05:47 PM
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