07-02-14 02:00 PM
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  1. slagman5's Avatar
    So, I've been wondering, I'm all for BB adding new features to the phones, especially the keyboard phones, the capacitive keyboard is actually something I've mentioned to a friend of mine YEARS ago (should have patented it dammit) but in my mind it would be a feature added ON TOP of the already great full keyboard. I don't really understand gimping it by getting rid of the printed numbers and symbols, and getting rid of the alt and shift keys. All of those features on top of an already tried-and-true full qwerty keyboard that doesn't change the arrangement (where the keys are in relation to other keys, half of the bottom row is shifted to the right a full letter and a half) to the keyboard I have at home would actually be quite awesome. Make it so pressing alt will type the printed symbols (most used) and swiping down on the keyboard will bring up the less used symbols, like pressing the sym key. So I can see getting rid of the sym key and replacing it with a dedicated period (.) key. That would be awesome. So someone please explain to me, by changing the keyboard to only 3 rows, shifting half a row of keys over so now their locations in relation to the other keys are altered, what benefit does that really give you? I know your answers, the size, the screen real-estate, yadda yadda yadda. Well, here, I've prepared this for you:
    Someone explain to me how these few mm's really help...-passport-kb-comparison.jpg
    Seriously, that little difference in size can be mitigated if you just move that chin space under the keyboard up a few millimeters and it's literally the same size... So tell me, how does saving those few millimeters really help? I want to know what great benefit this new 3-row keyboard arrangement will have that the full keyboard could not accommodate???

    I'm honestly asking, if you have an idea of what benefit the new arrangement will have, please share it with me. I really want to know.
    06-25-14 03:26 AM
  2. rai187's Avatar
    I'm on the same boat as you. I couldn't agree more.

    Posted via CB10 on the Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3175
    knownastron and viper-85 like this.
    06-25-14 04:04 AM
  3. itsyaboy's Avatar
    I'm honestly asking, if you have an idea of what benefit the new arrangement will have, please share it with me. I really want to know.
    I think the best answer to that question is: patiently wait until the phone is out and try it out in real situations if you can. Nobody knows if this revoluationary keyboard is truly adventageous. I hope it is, but we just don't know it yet!
    hazarder and stevepar like this.
    06-25-14 04:13 AM
  4. greenberry666's Avatar
    I agree that, while many aspects of the new keyboard are awesome, it has been gimped. The phone is causing me to consider going back to a keyboard for the first time in many years but the partial use of virtual keyboard, and the corresponding lack of surety in typing, is a concern. But I will definitely check out how well the virtual symbol bar works for me.

    Edit: and to +1 the OPs question: how do you guys think the addition of Virtual symbol bar improves the keyboard? Or has the keyboard been gimped for the sake of screen size?
    vpblaze and joelwsmith84 like this.
    06-25-14 05:01 AM
  5. slagman5's Avatar
    I agree that, while many aspects of the new keyboard are awesome, it has been gimped. The phone is causing me to consider going back to a keyboard for the first time in many years but the partial use of virtual keyboard, and the corresponding lack of surety in typing, is a concern. But I will definitely check out how well the virtual symbol bar works for me.

    Edit: and to +1 the OPs question: how do you guys think the addition of Virtual symbol bar improves the keyboard? Or has the keyboard been gimped for the sake of screen size?
    That's what I keep hearing, that it's for screen size, but I don't understand that because as you can see in my mock-up they could have gone with the same screen size and a full keyboard and end up with a device practically the same size. Those few millimeters would not at all make a difference...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-25-14 05:00 PM
  6. vpblaze's Avatar
    I am with you on this one Slag.
    I want to come back to BlackBerry and this Passport looks very promising. Due to the screen size and physical keyboard. But how limited is this new keyboard going to be?
    I guess only time will tell. What I am worried about is that this is yet another great opportunity for BlackBerry to wow users, but are they going to blow it by gimping a keyboard just because they want to save millimetres! It would be great if they just came out with a traditional style keyboard passport as well!

    Scribbled on my Note 3 then magically translated into readable words using Tapatalk
    viper-85 likes this.
    06-25-14 05:10 PM
  7. hazarder's Avatar
    That's what I keep hearing, that it's for screen size, but I don't understand that because as you can see in my mock-up they could have gone with the same screen size and a full keyboard and end up with a device practically the same size. Those few millimeters would not at all make a difference...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    Dude, wait till the phone is out man. That's it, like really, that's it. Unless Chen himself comes on the forums to explain their logic, Noone here can factually help you with your dilemma lol.

    Posted via my STILL NEW Zed30
    SmileDahling likes this.
    06-25-14 05:11 PM
  8. early2bed's Avatar
    I'll bet this will be a sore spot in the reviews of the device.
    06-25-14 05:11 PM
  9. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I'm going to wade into the debate and say this design isn't intended to make traditional BlackBerry keyboard fans happy.

    The capacitive keyboard is a whole new "thing". It will be used very differently from the traditional kb in in concept I'd say it's actually a lot closer to the (excellent) virtual keyboard on the all-touch BB10s.

    For me, I'd thought I was done with keyboards (I'm very happy with my Z30), but this has definitely caught my attention.
    06-25-14 05:14 PM
  10. II ARROWS's Avatar
    And the worst thing is that NONE is giving reasons why those few millimeters are helping...
    06-25-14 05:19 PM
  11. slagman5's Avatar
    I'm going to wade into the debate and say this design isn't intended to make traditional BlackBerry keyboard fans happy.

    The capacitive keyboard is a whole new "thing". It will be used very differently from the traditional kb in in concept I'd say it's actually a lot closer to the (excellent) virtual keyboard on the all-touch BB10s.

    For me, I'd thought I was done with keyboards (I'm very happy with my Z30), but this has definitely caught my attention.
    What I'm talking about has NOTHING to do with making anyone "happy" and all to do with results results results because that's all I care about. I believe in ADDING features to things that work, not taking some away and adding some back... I don't believe in compromise unless it's actually necessary. If they explain that for some reason a capacitive keyboard with the new features they mentioned would somehow not work on a full traditional-style keyboard, then so be it. But as of right now I can't think of a logical reason as to why that is...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-25-14 05:24 PM
  12. bakron1's Avatar
    For me at my age the small keys on the Q10 where tough to type on. I am hoping these capacitive keys on the passport are a little bigger then those tiny keys on the Q10.
    Sent from my lovey z30 on T Mobile USA
    06-25-14 05:31 PM
  13. moegh's Avatar
    Someone explain to me how these few mm's really help...-passport2-1000x747.jpg

    Q5-10.3.0.296/441(radio)
    Itai Moshe likes this.
    06-25-14 05:35 PM
  14. knighty2112's Avatar
    Not one to pour water on anything here, but wasn't this screen ratio worked out for best viewing of images, documents, xrays images etc? So if these virtual rows come up on screen then the screen real estate is going to go down is it not?

    Seems to me that the extra physical row would have had no impact on the screen ratio at all here . Seems to be a step backwards to me with no real gain at all here.

    Careful! Z10....er..... BlackDroid in action!
    06-25-14 05:42 PM
  15. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Why do some people INSIST on trying to turn this phone into the Classic? Do you want this phone to be a slightly wider version of the Classic? The Passport is offering a DIFFERENT way of typing. Even with PKB phone users, I would bet the percentage of touch-typists is small. The amount of usage that punctuation and symbols get is nominal. The width of this phone could change the ergonomics of typing on a PKB, making the layout useful. There is so much that we don't know, that demanding an answer is kinda fruitless at this point. And deciding that there was no reason for these changes since none of us have the answers you seek is a little premature.

    Do you really think that the sole reason for this radical change in design and usage is just "to save a few mm" or to "gimp the keyboard just to be different"?
    06-25-14 05:43 PM
  16. early2bed's Avatar
    There's nothing wrong with debating the merits of the keyboard. After all, Blackberry made a strategic decision to show the device. I'm sure they weren't expecting universal adoration although some here seem to.
    06-25-14 05:52 PM
  17. wnyjackson's Avatar
    Maybe the small rectangular shape of the new keyboard is a design limitation. Since the entire keyboard is touch sensitive maybe the capacitive keyboard technology only translates well into a rectangular shape with defined edges. I see the new keyboard as an extension of a laptop trackpad and all trackpads are shaped the same way, rectangle with straight edges.

    Posted via CB10
    06-25-14 06:02 PM
  18. II ARROWS's Avatar
    Maybe the small rectangular shape of the new keyboard is a design limitation. Since the entire keyboard is touch sensitive maybe the capacitive keyboard technology only translates well into a rectangular shape with defined edges. I see the new keyboard as an extension of a laptop trackpad and all trackpads are shaped the same way, rectangle with straight edges.
    Doesn't compute.
    If that is the case, they could leave the last row outside of the area... or making a rectangular keyboard with 4 rows.
    knownastron likes this.
    06-25-14 06:04 PM
  19. slagman5's Avatar
    Why do some people INSIST on trying to turn this phone into the Classic? Do you want this phone to be a slightly wider version of the Classic? The Passport is offering a DIFFERENT way of typing. Even with PKB phone users, I would bet the percentage of touch-typists is small. The amount of usage that punctuation and symbols get is nominal. The width of this phone could change the ergonomics of typing on a PKB, making the layout useful. There is so much that we don't know, that demanding an answer is kinda fruitless at this point. And deciding that there was no reason for these changes since none of us have the answers you seek is a little premature.

    Do you really think that the sole reason for this radical change in design and usage is just "to save a few mm" or to "gimp the keyboard just to be different"?
    Who is trying to turn this into the Classic? Did anyone here say it should have a toolbelt? Did anyone here say the capacitive functions to not be present? Did anyone here say it should be smaller?

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    CrownIsle likes this.
    06-25-14 06:13 PM
  20. anischab's Avatar
    The Passport is a complete new phone, new concept. There is surely need for ameliorations... So it is /Hardware/ version1.0 and we (BlackBerry-fans/Crackberry-members) are going to enjoy suggesting emprovement ideas!
    See the emprovement the OS went through?! What a difference from OS 10.0 vs 10.2.1 ?! It's the same now, punto Hardware!

    BlackBerry*Q10, T-Mobile Germany - SQN100-3, Running OS 10.2.1.2941
    06-25-14 06:15 PM
  21. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Not one to pour water on anything here, but wasn't this screen ratio worked out for best viewing of images, documents, xrays images etc? So if these virtual rows come up on screen then the screen real estate is going to go down is it not?

    Seems to me that the extra physical row would have had no impact on the screen ratio at all here . Seems to be a step backwards to me with no real gain at all here.

    Careful! Z10....er..... BlackDroid in action!
    Since the virtual keyboard rows only appear when you're actually entering text, it won't be an issue when viewing images.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    Rowan M likes this.
    06-25-14 06:19 PM
  22. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    What I'm talking about has NOTHING to do with making anyone "happy" and all to do with results results results because that's all I care about. I believe in ADDING features to things that work, not taking some away and adding some back... I don't believe in compromise unless it's actually necessary. If they explain that for some reason a capacitive keyboard with the new features they mentioned would somehow not work on a full traditional-style keyboard, then so be it. But as of right now I can't think of a logical reason as to why that is...

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    1) as someone else observed, the keyboard likely had to be rectangular in order to incorporate the touch-sensitive features and 2) only 3 rows reduces cost, complexity, and space.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    wnyjackson likes this.
    06-25-14 06:24 PM
  23. greenberry666's Avatar
    Why do some people INSIST on trying to turn this phone into the Classic? Do you want this phone to be a slightly wider version of the Classic? The Passport is offering a SLOWER way of typing.
    I fixed it for you
    vpblaze likes this.
    06-25-14 06:30 PM
  24. DJ BigToe's Avatar
    Why do some people INSIST on trying to turn this phone into the Classic? Do you want this phone to be a slightly wider version of the Classic? The Passport is offering a DIFFERENT way of typing. Even with PKB phone users, I would bet the percentage of touch-typists is small. The amount of usage that punctuation and symbols get is nominal. The width of this phone could change the ergonomics of typing on a PKB, making the layout useful. There is so much that we don't know, that demanding an answer is kinda fruitless at this point. And deciding that there was no reason for these changes since none of us have the answers you seek is a little premature.

    Do you really think that the sole reason for this radical change in design and usage is just "to save a few mm" or to "gimp the keyboard just to be different"?
    I'd like to see the Classic with the Passport's specs and screen size..
    knownastron and viper-85 like this.
    06-25-14 06:44 PM
  25. Bob Baga's Avatar
    After reading all the posts, I really feel that blackberry should read the debate & come up with an answer.Else Android, iOS & WP are already eating more & more into their marketshare. Blackberry just can't afford to repeat past mistakes. It has listen to us, or else it will go the way of Dinosaurs.
    II ARROWS and viper-85 like this.
    06-25-14 06:50 PM
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