10-24-18 12:38 AM
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  1. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    I don't understand why everyone thinks BlackBerry is completely trustworthy and doesn't collect an ounce of data. Or the apps made for BB10. While it might not be as pervasive, I would imagine it is naive to think they didn't do some data collection.
    I'd like to think Native devs are more trustworthy with the general security awareness of BB10 users (forgetting the noobs here).

    Non my mine collect anything for the record.
    02-15-18 06:11 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    I'd like to think Native devs are more trustworthy with the general security awareness of BB10 users (forgetting the noobs here).

    Non my mine collect anything for the record.
    Plus, respectable developers will tell you exactly what they do.

    Many only use Google Analytics for instance.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    02-15-18 06:28 PM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    ...
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 02-15-18 at 06:55 PM.
    02-15-18 06:35 PM
  4. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    If you avoid the free services and manage your settings, you can largely turn off the marketing data collection. However you can't have it both ways. If you like consumer apps, like all of those that depend on location services being turned on, then you'll have to accept the data mining.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    You are saying that Google allows you to turn all data and add systems and truly leaves you alone?
    02-15-18 06:52 PM
  5. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    You don't actually pay for the AOSP component of the OS - only for the modifications done by the OEM.
    The way I see it, it's all blurry to me. Technically Android is an open source project, but, they charge you with publicity and data collection. One can "technically" opt out, but it's not that easy, and in the end you toggle switches off and never knows what is really happening in the background.
    When you question that scheme, the normal response you get is: "if you don't like it, don't use it" or "get an iPhone".
    That's the classic outcome of a monopoly. This is why is such a shame that Blackberry is no longer an option, or Nokia disappeared, or Microsoft give up with their OS, or Samsung never really pushed Tizen.
    02-15-18 07:04 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    This is why is such a shame that Blackberry is no longer an option, or Nokia disappeared, or Microsoft give up with their OS, or Samsung never really pushed Tizen.
    Essentially confirming that the other business models are not competitive.
    02-15-18 07:26 PM
  7. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    Essentially confirming that the other business models are not competitive.
    "This is good for us of bad for us?.... bad for us"
    02-15-18 07:29 PM
  8. conite's Avatar
    "This is good for us of bad for us?.... bad for us"
    There are about 2.5 billion smartphone users around the globe - most of whom could never afford to pay extra for OS software development. The rest just prefer not to.
    02-15-18 07:33 PM
  9. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    There are about 2.5 billion smartphone users around the globe - most of whom could never afford to pay extra for OS software development. The rest just prefer not to.
    And that data comes from...?
    02-15-18 07:35 PM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The way I see it, it's all blurry to me. Technically Android is an open source project, but, they charge you with publicity and data collection. One can "technically" opt out, but it's not that easy, and in the end you toggle switches off and never knows what is really happening in the background.
    When you question that scheme, the normal response you get is: "if you don't like it, don't use it" or "get an iPhone".
    That's the classic outcome of a monopoly. This is why is such a shame that Blackberry is no longer an option, or Nokia disappeared, or Microsoft give up with their OS, or Samsung never really pushed Tizen.
    You are confusing "Android" (the base OS, which is open-source) with apps - both Google's pre-installed apps and apps that you download from various sources - the vast majority of which are neither open-source nor "free" in the truest sense. Google has never hidden the fact that all of their many excellent services (Gmail, Maps, Drive, Photos, YouTube, Blogger, Keep, etc. etc.) are paid for via ads - JUST LIKE, say, radio and TV have been for decades. And many third-party developers fund their apps exactly the same way.

    Some companies offer paid versions of their apps and/or services - some require payments to use the service at all, and others let you choose to pay for the ad-free version OR use the "with ads" version for no monetary cost.

    In the end, though, most developers need to make money, and MOST users prefer to see ads and not pay cash, which is why the same model has been so successful with TV and radio too. And the same reason why most people use "loyalty cards" at stores - trading their buying habits for discounts.

    If even a large minority of people rejected these ad-based payment models, they would collapse and everything would move to up-front payments. But it hasn't happened yet and isn't likely to ever happen. Most people prefer not to pay up-front, and so the ad-based model is incredibly successful.

    If you have a problem with that model, then either use paid services and apps that don't use ads, and manage your data collection settings, or use an alternative platform (Sailfish, Copperhead, etc.). Or buy a feature phone.

    There's not much point in complaining about something that isn't going to change. The vast majority prefer it just the way it is (of course, they'd prefer it to be completely 100% free, but that was never an option), and it's a successful model for many businesses too. There's nothing at all illegal about it, or TV and radio would have changed business models (or died) long ago.
    02-15-18 07:39 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    And that data comes from...?
    What part?
    02-15-18 07:44 PM
  12. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    What part?
    How you know that most of that 2.5 billion user can't afford to pay for the OS? More so, how much the OS would be? In the past, we all payed for the OS don't we?
    02-15-18 07:47 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    How you know that most of that 2.5 billion user can't afford to pay for the OS? More so, how much the OS would be? In the past, we all payed for the OS don't we?
    The Android base grew BECAUSE of the revenue model. Services and targeted ads in lieu of up-front payouts made it possible.
    02-15-18 07:49 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    You are saying that Google allows you to turn all data and add systems and truly leaves you alone?
    If you don't use Google's free apps, including Gmail, Google Maps, etc, and don't link your personal Google account to the phone, there's not a lot of Android data that can be used for marketing.

    I set up my KEYone with my work phone number and two Google/Android accounts:

    1) a GSuite account for Android for Work. This is the account I use for all of my paid professional apps.

    2) a single-use "fake" personal Google account that I use for nothing else except Android and Google Play. This Google account has no personally identifiable information associated with it, (different name, age, gender, country, etc.) which means that I never use it for paid apps or any apps that have my information in it. ( I don't download any social networking or banking apps with this account, for example. ). The only apps I install using this account are things like a Metronome app and other free apps with no PID.

    I use Google Maps with that personal account, so Google might try to market to the fictitious person I created, but I don't even have email configured for that account, so I would never know.

    I use BlackBerry Hub for my seven email accounts, calendars, etc., including my own Office 365 E3 account, my GSuite account, etc.

    I don't use the Gmail app, obviously, or Google's calendar apps, etc. I use Firefox for my personal Web browsing with another alias Firefox account, and I use a VPN. I don't use Chrome at all on my Android phone.

    This doesn't mean that Google doesn't collect any telemetry data from my use of the phone, but there just isn't a lot of my personal information that it could collect. My phone number is my work number, which Google is welcome to.

    I do use Signal with friends and Family, tied to my work account in Google Play, but with my personal info in the app. I'm comfortable that Google doesn't access data inside Signal.

    So, Google can collect some information about me, but the company does not snoop around GSuite accounts like it does consumer Google accounts, because they don't have to monetize paid accounts.

    The main sacrifice is to simply not use the phone for personal activities, such as banking, Netflix, etc., but I'm hardwired that way in any case. My phone is a work tool, not a personal one, except for email, calendars, etc. I've never taken a private selfie in my life, though I've taken a number of professional ones.

    Again, if you want to do consumer things with your phone, you will have to sacrifice some privacy. That's true on any platform. Luckily for me, I'm a boring work drone.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-15-18 07:52 PM
  15. ezubeBB2013's Avatar
    Reading all of these comments it's pretty clear that Conite is anti BB10 and loves Android - good for him.

    The reason that Apple is so successful is not because they have an amazing product but because they lock people into their eco system. I've heard people say they would move from Apple but it was too much of a hassl. They have the phone, laptop, iPad, the music etc.

    Android is a 'play pen' OS, I've never come across such a chaotic OS. Nothing is intuitive. Can't stand it.

    I still love BB10 - it works fine for me and I don't need any work around to do anything. Love the Passport - it's perfect, the form factor and 3 row keyboard.

    Most people are sheep and if their buddy has something and raves about it they want it too - we can see that with other consumer products. that's why the other OS became more popular and the fact that BlackBerry didn't market bb10 well enough. A lot of people didn't even know that BlackBerry was still making phones or even existed. Building up a brand takes investment and BB didn't do that after launching BB10 - they thought their BBOS days would guarantee them success.

    we've also been brainwashed to believe that we need apps! There is probably no other invention in history that mines so much data as apps do.

    I won't be going to android or apple so when my Passport stops working and I have no idea what I'll use but I will cross that bridge when I get there!


    Posted via BlackBerry Passport
    CrackPriv likes this.
    02-16-18 07:32 AM
  16. conite's Avatar
    Reading all of these comments it's pretty clear that Conite is anti BB10 and loves Android - good for him.
    This is a discussion regarding business models.

    I have a stack of BB10 devices here that would seem to suggest another conclusion regarding my position.

    You'll have to do better than suggesting that everyone on Android and Apple are too stupid to know any better.
    Last edited by conite; 02-16-18 at 08:55 AM.
    BigBadWulf and Jerry A like this.
    02-16-18 07:46 AM
  17. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Reading all of these comments it's pretty clear that Conite is anti BB10 and loves Android - good for him.

    The reason that Apple is so successful is not because they have an amazing product but because they lock people into their eco system. I've heard people say they would move from Apple but it was too much of a hassl. They have the phone, laptop, iPad, the music etc.

    Android is a 'play pen' OS, I've never come across such a chaotic OS. Nothing is intuitive. Can't stand it.

    I still love BB10 - it works fine for me and I don't need any work around to do anything. Love the Passport - it's perfect, the form factor and 3 row keyboard.

    Most people are sheep and if their buddy has something and raves about it they want it too - we can see that with other consumer products. that's why the other OS became more popular and the fact that BlackBerry didn't market bb10 well enough. A lot of people didn't even know that BlackBerry was still making phones or even existed. Building up a brand takes investment and BB didn't do that after launching BB10 - they thought their BBOS days would guarantee them success.

    we've also been brainwashed to believe that we need apps! There is probably no other invention in history that mines so much data as apps do.

    I won't be going to android or apple so when my Passport stops working and I have no idea what I'll use but I will cross that bridge when I get there!


    Posted via BlackBerry Passport
    Conite has never been anti-BB10, though he is certainly pro-Android. It's not a binary choice for everyone. In 2018, the use case for BB10 is pretty narrow, especially if you don't use the obsolete Android 4.3 runtime. I can still use BB10 with minimal compromises, but that certainly isn't true for all users.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    02-16-18 08:39 AM
  18. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Most people are sheep and if their buddy has something and raves about it they want it too
    If BB10 was #1 , you'd be sheeple too.

    Let's stop slinging mud, and stay on topic!
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    02-16-18 09:11 AM
  19. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Use it until it doesn't work for you anymore.

    That could either mean you finally outgrow it or BlackBerry somehow renders the phone useless.

    Either way, enjoy the ride.

     Classically Posted SQC100-4/10.3.2.2876 
    02-16-18 09:49 AM
  20. Jerry A's Avatar
    If you have a problem with that model, then either use paid services and apps that don't use ads, and manage your data collection settings, or use an alternative platform (Sailfish, Copperhead, etc.). Or buy a feature phone.
    But even feature phones aren't immune. Remember, there's all the data collection and telemetry that your cellular provider performs. Oftentimes, with data sharing/selling terms that are more egregious than the app developers/platforms being discussed in this thread.
    02-16-18 09:54 AM
  21. Zidentia's Avatar
    You are confusing "Android" (the base OS, which is open-source) with apps - both Google's pre-installed apps and apps that you download from various sources - the vast majority of which are neither open-source nor "free" in the truest sense. Google has never hidden the fact that all of their many excellent services (Gmail, Maps, Drive, Photos, YouTube, Blogger, Keep, etc. etc.) are paid for via ads - JUST LIKE, say, radio and TV have been for decades. And many third-party developers fund their apps exactly the same way.

    Some companies offer paid versions of their apps and/or services - some require payments to use the service at all, and others let you choose to pay for the ad-free version OR use the "with ads" version for no monetary cost.

    In the end, though, most developers need to make money, and MOST users prefer to see ads and not pay cash, which is why the same model has been so successful with TV and radio too. And the same reason why most people use "loyalty cards" at stores - trading their buying habits for discounts.

    If even a large minority of people rejected these ad-based payment models, they would collapse and everything would move to up-front payments. But it hasn't happened yet and isn't likely to ever happen. Most people prefer not to pay up-front, and so the ad-based model is incredibly successful.

    If you have a problem with that model, then either use paid services and apps that don't use ads, and manage your data collection settings, or use an alternative platform (Sailfish, Copperhead, etc.). Or buy a feature phone.

    There's not much point in complaining about something that isn't going to change. The vast majority prefer it just the way it is (of course, they'd prefer it to be completely 100% free, but that was never an option), and it's a successful model for many businesses too. There's nothing at all illegal about it, or TV and radio would have changed business models (or died) long ago.
    The TV/Radio ad model is not the same. When you advertise on TV/Radio you are putting the ad in a predetermined time slot based on on a demographic model that had been compiled by the TV/Radio advertising department based on available data. This sampled data typically lags 3-6 months so there is some gray area. There is no data collected per end user in real time so it can be a gamble.

    Data mining/Analytics, on the other hand, track a multitude of things including search terms and results, Internet ip addresses, purchasing and more in real time. This is not, in any way, the same as TV/Radio ads. I can watch TV and listen to the radio for weeks on end and the advertiser has no clue what I listen to or what I like unless I agree to participate in research.

    I will grant that Google, Microsoft and the other larger companies post disclaimers and warnings about data collection but a majority do not. And even if you opt out they still collect it and I hold Verizon up as an example of Data stealing. It has been well documented they still collect search data and GPS data outside of that which is needed for operational use. This example holds the most irony because I pay them to mine my data. Not exactly "free" is it?

    I have used all of the major mobile OS's out there. I think IOS is fine but is flawed and the eco system too controlling. Android as an OS is still a huge kerfunkle even though it is better. The only reason it is dominant is because it is free to license otherwise it would have never made it this far.

    The real problem lies in what happens in 2020. If my Blackberries stopped functioning I have to make a decision. I do not like my options and I may go to an OS that is not one of the two market leaders. I am really leaning towards an always on PC. The MS Courier, if produced, would be OK with me. The interesting thing is there are rumors in the app world that Google is clamping down 100% possibly in 2020.
    G_Unit MVP likes this.
    02-16-18 10:07 AM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    The TV/Radio ad model is not the same. When you advertise on TV/Radio you are putting the ad in a predetermined time slot based on on a demographic model that had been compiled by the TV/Radio advertising department based on available data. This sampled data typically lags 3-6 months so there is some gray area. There is no data collected per end user in real time so it can be a gamble.

    Data mining/Analytics, on the other hand, track a multitude of things including search terms and results, Internet ip addresses, purchasing and more in real time. This is not, in any way, the same as TV/Radio ads. I can watch TV and listen to the radio for weeks on end and the advertiser has no clue what I listen to or what I like unless I agree to participate in research.

    I will grant that Google, Microsoft and the other larger companies post disclaimers and warnings about data collection but a majority do not. And even if you opt out they still collect it and I hold Verizon up as an example of Data stealing. It has been well documented they still collect search data and GPS data outside of that which is needed for operational use. This example holds the most irony because I pay them to mine my data. Not exactly "free" is it?

    I have used all of the major mobile OS's out there. I think IOS is fine but is flawed and the eco system too controlling. Android as an OS is still a huge kerfunkle even though it is better. The only reason it is dominant is because it is free to license otherwise it would have never made it this far.

    The real problem lies in what happens in 2020. If my Blackberries stopped functioning I have to make a decision. I do not like my options and I may go to an OS that is not one of the two market leaders. I am really leaning towards an always on PC. The MS Courier, if produced, would be OK with me. The interesting thing is there are rumors in the app world that Google is clamping down 100% possibly in 2020.
    I have found the direction mobile has taken since the release of the iPhone (from an enterprise tool to a piece of personal electronics) to be a big disappointment. Users get fewer guarantees (privacy, security. service levels, stability, etc.) in return for lower costs. This has led to a fragmented app environment and tremendous velocity of change, but very little increment productivity for most businesses.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-16-18 10:34 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    I have found the direction mobile has taken since the release of the iPhone (from an enterprise tool to a piece of personal electronics) to be a big disappointment. Users get fewer guarantees (privacy, security. service levels, stability, etc.) in return for lower costs. This has led to a fragmented app environment and tremendous velocity of change, but very little increment productivity for most businesses.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    But most businesses are now based around apps for getting work done in a secure way.

    "BlackBerry Dynamics provides the foundation for secure enterprise mobility by offering an advanced, mature and tested container for mobile apps. Part of BlackBerry Secure, a comprehensive endpoint-to-endpoint approach to security, it’s designed to eliminate the risk of data leakage by delivering proven security at the app level. With BlackBerry Dynamics, your apps are BlackBerry Secure.

    Built for the most demanding businesses and delivering high availability, disaster recovery and industry-leading scalability, BlackBerry Dynamics is the enterprise-ready solution for meeting critical mobile needs. It includes BlackBerry Analytics, which enables organizations and developers to monitor Dynamics App activity and create a full lifecycle management process for deployed apps.

    BlackBerry Work delivers an all-in-one, secure collaborative business experience on any device. It combines enterprise email, calendar, contacts, presence, document access, document editing and more, allowing you to effectively mobilize your workforce. With BlackBerry Work, your users can complete any business workflow on-the-go—without returning to their desktops."
    02-16-18 11:21 AM
  24. brookie229's Avatar
    Use it until it doesn't work for you anymore.
    This, exactly..
    02-16-18 11:31 AM
  25. bvhanna's Avatar
    Who says that BlackBerry will stick to the suggested two year end of support for bb10 OS? Things change with time. Who knows?

    Posted via CB10
    02-16-18 11:59 AM
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