05-04-18 04:39 PM
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  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    But you're looking at it backwards. The ONLY reason that Blackberry offered some of those apps before was because there was no alternative available. As a result, Blackberry was forced to provide some mediocre solutions.
    I wonder if we're talking about the same apps. I generally prefer a much tighter integration between hardware, the OS and applications than I find on Android. I found BBOS and BB10 to be much more usable out of the box than Android.

    Ironically, Apple fits the description of what I'm talking about very well, but just not in a way that supports my activities.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-14-18 01:33 PM
  2. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    ...
    Ironically, Apple fits the description of what I'm talking about very well, but just not in a way that supports my activities.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    If I would not be a Windows user, I wouldn't think twice.

    The only reason that Android is the more obvious choice is because it is more agnostic to the other devices /systems that you can integrate with it. That is very important to me.
    02-14-18 01:48 PM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    If I would not be a Windows user, I wouldn't think twice.

    The only reason that Android is the more obvious choice is because it is more agnostic to the other devices /systems that you can integrate with it. That is very important to me.
    Agreed. I think one of the big differences between some of us Crackberrians is the extent to which we rely on Mobile devices. For me, mobile is primarily about email, audio, and reading, with some light Web browsing. I use Windows for all serious work, other than email.

    Others around here use 3rd party mobile apps for work. I haven't found any I can stomach.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    KAM1138 likes this.
    02-14-18 01:52 PM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    02-14-18 01:55 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    I wonder if we're talking about the same apps.
    SMS/MMS, File Manager, Media Player, Picture Gallery, Notification Handler. All FAR more powerful and integrated on Android instead of the lowest common denominator solutions of BB10.

    I don't think there is anything else that BlackBerry had to provide to "bridge" what wasn't available to them.
    02-14-18 01:59 PM
  6. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    SMS/MMS, File Manager, Media Player, Picture Gallery, Notification Handler. All FAR more powerful and integrated on Android instead of the lowest common denominator solutions of BB10.

    I don't think there is anything else that BlackBerry had to provide to "bridge" what wasn't available to them.
    But these also require granting file access to 3rd party developers... which, in my opinion, is yet another gap - this time in security rather than functionality.
    02-14-18 02:08 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    But these also require granting file access to 3rd party developers... which, in my opinion, is yet another gap - this time in security rather than functionality.
    There are a lot of developers with more pedigree and longer histories than BlackBerry.

    Read the TOS/PP of VLC, of Solid Explorer, etc.

    These guys are under FAR, FAR more scrutiny than BlackBerry ever was.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    02-14-18 03:00 PM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    SMS/MMS, File Manager, Media Player, Picture Gallery, Notification Handler. All FAR more powerful and integrated on Android instead of the lowest common denominator solutions of BB10.

    I don't think there is anything else that BlackBerry had to provide to "bridge" what wasn't available to them.
    Well, I never had any complaints about any of those apps, and I continue to use them daily. Early on I experimented with other apps, such as Neutron player, but I always ended up deleting them as they added complexity for no tangible (to me) benefit.

    But I accept your point that BlackBerry was never a major app developer and shouldn't be expected to become one. In that case, I would frankly be happier if BlackBerry simply selected a number of quality app partners chosen for their integrity, track record, and robust security model.

    The point of this is that I am not the least bit interested in micro managing my phone set up. One of the things I always valued about BlackBerry devices is that they simply worked, with very little input needed by the end user.

    If I wanted to be an IT director responsible for software assessment and procurement I would have chosen that career. But I get zero return for time spent educating myself about 3rd party file managers and media players. It is a waste of my time, and there is no reason to suspect that I will make better choices than a professional.

    What's worse, every app I install creates additional complexity and risk. That would be acceptable if doing so added substantial value, but it's just a distraction from real work.

    Please understand that the control and customization you value so highly are not very valuable to some of us. I will spend hours fine tuning the processing on my workstation because that has a tangible financial reward, but I get no such return for time spent selecting and configuring apps for my phone.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-14-18 04:27 PM
  9. conite's Avatar

    If I wanted to be an IT director responsible for software assessment and procurement I would have chosen that career.
    I think you're overshooting. Goodness me, we're only talking about 3 or 4 apps.
    02-14-18 05:47 PM
  10. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I think you're overshooting. Goodness me, we're only talking about 3 or 4 apps.
    Fair enough, but there are over a billion Android users, and very few of them perform any due diligence beyond looking at the ratings in Google Play. If the goal is efficiency and user effectiveness, it's a terrible model.

    Of course that isn't the goal, the goal is to maximize the number of downloads and eyeballs by feeding consumers' addiction to constant digital feedback.

    If apps were all ad-free and cost $50-500 each I wonder how many downloads we'd see.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-14-18 06:01 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    If the goal is efficiency and user effectiveness, it's a terrible model.
    Why?

    Having the likes of VLC and PowerAmp, or Solid Explorer and Mixplorer trying to outdo each other has been a boon to driving media players and file managers to new levels.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    02-14-18 06:14 PM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Why?

    Having the likes of VLC and PowerAmp, or Solid Explorer and Mixplorer trying to outdo each other has been a boon to driving media players and file managers to new levels.
    For every great, well-engineered app from a fantastic company there are 100,000 crap apps, a significant number of which eventually get identified as bad actors. How is the average user to know the difference? I'm all for competition, but there is no transparency for the average user who falsely believes that, because it's available via an official app store, UT must be OK.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    KAM1138 likes this.
    02-14-18 06:22 PM
  13. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    ...
    In that case, I would frankly be happier if BlackBerry simply selected a number of quality app partners chosen for their integrity, track record, and robust security model.
    ...
    I agree with this. BlackBerry has made many acquisitions / licensing deals with other software companies throughout BB10's development as well as in their enterprise software. It would make a lot of sense to bring that same practice over to their Android offerings.

    What I can't help but see, is that from the Android deal, BlackBerry doesn't have consumers as their customers anymore. They have TCL. So, as long as they keep making money from that license, they really are not concerned. They aren't trying to get more people to buy their handsets, they are trying to get other companies to license their patents.

    BlackBerry, as a software company, is not interested in growing their market share in the smartphone industry anymore. As a company, they would be totally fine if BlackBerry handsets disappeared altogether. They are not investing into that part of their company. That's the hard suspicion that I can't help but have. Part of the reason that BB10 was such a financial loss for the company was because of how much they invested into it. I feel like maybe they over-corrected...

    I'm not that big of a football fan but, if the move to Android was their 'Hail Mary', it's as if they miraculously tied up the game, won the coin toss, and then handed possession over to the other team.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    02-14-18 06:54 PM
  14. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    What I can't help but see, is that from the Android deal, BlackBerry doesn't have consumers as their customers anymore. They have TCL. So, as long as they keep making money from that license, they really are not concerned. They aren't trying to get more people to buy their handsets, they are trying to get other companies to license their patents.

    BlackBerry, as a software company, is not interested in growing their market share in the smartphone industry anymore. As a company, they would be totally fine if BlackBerry handsets disappeared altogether. They are not investing into that part of their company. That's the hard suspicion that I can't help but have. Part of the reason that BB10 was such a financial loss for the company was because of how much they invested into it.
    This is exactly the situation. They made a massive investment and earned a massive loss that very nearly killed the entire company, but did kill a majority of the previous version of the company. "BB the smartphone company" is dead. BB still exists as a company, but it's almost a completely different company now, and smartphones are among the very lowest of priorities with this new version of BB.

    I'm not that big of a football fan but, if the move to Android was their 'Hail Mary', it's as if they miraculously tied up the game, won the coin toss, and then handed possession over to the other team.
    This is only confusing if you believe that BB intended to stay in the smartphone business. It was quite clear to me from Chen's original announcement of intentions that he would be leaving the smartphone business (despite his spin to the contrary, which had plenty of conditions to allow for an exit) and focusing on enterprise-focused products, such as Radar, and on self-driving car technologies, where the customers are car companies, not end-users. That's clearly why the BoD hired Chen in the first place, rather than someone with consumer or hardware experience.

    BB was NEVER good at, and never really wanted to be involved with dealing with end-users. They were always B2B-focused, and only circumstances led to them becoming somewhat consumer-focused for a while. That time has largely ended. Chen has re-focused BB in areas of its strength, and won't spend any further money in areas where it is weak and where there is incredible competition.

    That's now TCL's burden.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    02-14-18 10:01 PM
  15. curves2000's Avatar
    The way I look at BlackBerry's current offering of software and services and a high focus on mobile for enterprise. A lot of the product and services they are offering are geared towards government and enterprise mobility solutions and are being used on tablets, mobile phones etc

    The way I see things is that it cab be easier to manage and sell their suite of services and products if you still have a minor presence in the mobile space. I know that BlackBerry isn't a major player in the device business anymore but the BlackBerry devices sold over the last 2-3 years, although small, still represent a few hundred thousand units. The biggest issue was BlackBerry was losing money on all the sales!

    They don't have that issue any more, they have a team that takes care of the software on their BlackBerry Android experience, a small team that works closely with BlackBerry Mobile (TCL) for putting out devices along with other contract manufactures. I believe that John Chen has indicated that the division operates on something close to 90% margin.

    If BlackBerry can get the device licensing business to bring in $100 mil a year in revenue and growing, that's a healthy little business they got going on. If it doesn't work out well for some reason, losing out on $25 mil a quarter in sales shouldn't materially affect what should be a growing BlackBerry top line, primarily driven by IOT, Radar, QNX Automotive etc in the future.

    Posted via CB10
    02-14-18 10:34 PM
  16. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    For every great, well-engineered app from a fantastic company there are 100,000 crap apps, a significant number of which eventually get identified as bad actors. How is the average user to know the difference? I'm all for competition, but there is no transparency for the average user who falsely believes that, because it's available via an official app store, UT must be OK.

    Posted with my trusty Z10

    And the fact that you don't really have 100% certainty about what the apps are doing in the background is scary.
    I mean, in the end is not much different from a PC, where you can install all sorts of crap, but you have more control to see what the software is doing (or at least it feels like it :P).
    How many times we read news about apps (or even Google itself) using data the users strictly disabled?
    02-15-18 01:46 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    And the fact that you don't really have 100% certainty about what the apps are doing in the background is scary.
    I mean, in the end is not much different from a PC, where you can install all sorts of crap, but you have more control to see what the software is doing (or at least it feels like it :P).
    How many times we read news about apps (or even Google itself) using data the users strictly disabled?
    So stick with the developers that have as good a reputation as BlackBerry.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    02-15-18 01:52 PM
  18. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    So stick with the developers that have as good a reputation as BlackBerry.
    Well yeah, but even then, do we really have any level of certainty about what they are doing? I think Google have a good reputation, and they where caught doing nasty stuff.
    02-15-18 01:58 PM
  19. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Well yeah, but even then, do we really have any level of certainty about what they are doing? I think Google have a good reputation, and they where caught doing nasty stuff.
    Most of the "nasty stuff" is connected to free services, because companies have to fund themselves one way or another. The best approach to privacy is to use paid services from reputable companies.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 02-15-18 at 03:24 PM.
    02-15-18 02:30 PM
  20. Kraeutermann's Avatar
    Most of the "nasty stuff" is connected to free services, because companies have to fu d themselves one way or another. The best approach to privacy is to use paid services from reputable companies.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    "If its free you are the product."

    Posted via CB10
    02-15-18 03:23 PM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    "If its free you are the product."

    Posted via CB10
    Nice one!
    02-15-18 03:23 PM
  22. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    So, you buy a phone, pay for the hardware and the OS (android in this case) and then pay again for the handful of apps needed to do basic things. BUT, they whole ecosystem keep carving you to sell adds cause "it's the way it works"...

    Posted vía CB10 with my Passport SE SQW100-4
    02-15-18 04:04 PM
  23. conite's Avatar
    So, you buy a phone, pay for the hardware and the OS (android in this case) and then pay again for the handful of apps needed to do basic things. BUT, they whole ecosystem keep carving you to sell adds cause "it's the way it works"...

    Posted vía CB10 with my Passport SE SQW100-4
    You don't actually pay for the AOSP component of the OS - only for the modifications done by the OEM.
    02-15-18 04:10 PM
  24. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    So, you buy a phone, pay for the hardware and the OS (android in this case) and then pay again for the handful of apps needed to do basic things. BUT, they whole ecosystem keep carving you to sell adds cause "it's the way it works"...

    Posted vía CB10 with my Passport SE SQW100-4
    If you avoid the free services and manage your settings, you can largely turn off the marketing data collection. However you can't have it both ways. If you like consumer apps, like all of those that depend on location services being turned on, then you'll have to accept the data mining.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-15-18 04:33 PM
  25. Emaderton3's Avatar
    I don't understand why everyone thinks BlackBerry is completely trustworthy and doesn't collect an ounce of data. Or the apps made for BB10. While it might not be as pervasive, I would imagine it is naive to think they didn't do some data collection.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    02-15-18 04:46 PM
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