05-04-18 04:39 PM
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  1. kingkirbo's Avatar
    Will I still be able to even use my passport, or will I have to get a new phone? (will probably sidegrade to a flip phone)
    I use my passport for the following things: Calls, texts, web browsing, calendar, camera, maps, spotify app, reddit app. Both Spotify and Reddit app are from the sideloaded google play I believe.
    02-03-18 05:46 PM
  2. IvanTheTolerable's Avatar
    You won't be able to reset and setup the phone again or download apps from the world. Other than that is should work as long as you set it up nice before hand.
    BigAl_BB9900 likes this.
    02-03-18 06:36 PM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    If the BB Protect server is shut down, and BB10 hasn't been updated accordingly, you won't be able to get past Protect after a reboot. That's probably the biggest roadblock.

    The bottom line is that you should expect to need a different phone by then. Once official support ends, the phone could stop working at any time, and there would be almost no resources or even ability to fix it. Why depend on a potential time bomb?

    Enjoy the next 2 years but be prepared to transition to a supported platform before it is over.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    02-03-18 07:07 PM
  4. dbroegger's Avatar
    **** that such a good system is not longer supported. I am so happy with my BlackBerry SE that I can't belive that. but I agree: seems to be so true...
    ratfinkstooley and moonflyer like this.
    02-03-18 07:17 PM
  5. Kuruz's Avatar
    @ Troy

    I would really like to hear from someone about the first paragraph of your post from a legal perspective. It makes no sense that the company would be able to simply kill all the phones running under BB10 and get away with that.
    02-03-18 07:19 PM
  6. howarmat's Avatar
    @ Troy

    I would really like to hear from someone about the first paragraph of your post from a legal perspective. It makes no sense that the company would be able to simply kill all the phones running under BB10 and get away with that.
    not sure they would on purpose, but knowing bb it could slip by them easily lol
    BigAl_BB9900 and Mecca EL like this.
    02-03-18 07:24 PM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    If the BB Protect server is shut down, and BB10 hasn't been updated accordingly, you won't be able to get past Protect after a reboot. That's probably the biggest roadblock.

    The bottom line is that you should expect to need a different phone by then. Once official support ends, the phone could stop working at any time, and there would be almost no resources or even ability to fix it. Why depend on a potential time bomb?

    Enjoy the next 2 years but be prepared to transition to a supported platform before it is over.
    Respectfully, my approach will be different. I'll likely continue to use my BB10 Phones until they actually stop working. I'll just stop the use of any unavailable services, such as BlackBerry Protect and BlackBerry World.

    I'm not worried about my phone being stolen, as the thief would have to perform a security wipe to use an old phone. And I haven't used BlackBerry World in years anyway, except to update apps that will no longer receive updates at that point anyway.

    I don't see any reason to take BlackBerry's official end of support date as a deadline to stop using my preferred device unless it actually ceases to function.

    I take the same attitude with most other things I buy, unless it's a health/safety issue. I'll replace a fire extinguisher after the expiration date, but not a mobile phone!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-03-18 07:52 PM
  8. Qorax's Avatar
    I purchased a phone on it's launch day in 2011, whose OS was killed almost immediately. Seven years hence and I am still using it perfectly*, even though the company itself is no more.

    So no, I don't think our BB10 phones will have any issue/s as a communicating device even past 2019.

    *works fine for call, text, email, browsing, photo/video with good battery life till date.
    ratfinkstooley and kingkirbo like this.
    02-03-18 08:48 PM
  9. thurask's Avatar
    I remember when proximity sensors all died because a BB server was feeding faulty data, so just what else requires a periodic call home remains to be seen.
    02-03-18 08:57 PM
  10. andy957's Avatar
    Then again there are some carriers that still support BIS, so there are still some 9900s etc that are still going on.. Not many but still.....
    02-03-18 09:05 PM
  11. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I purchased a phone on it's launch day in 2011, whose OS was killed almost immediately. Seven years hence and I am still using it perfectly*, even though the company itself is no more.

    So no, I don't think our BB10 phones will have any issue/s as a communicating device even past 2019.

    *works fine for call, text, email, browsing, photo/video with good battery life till date.
    The main thing that is different about BB phones compared to all others is that they're BB phones! You know, BB, the company that's ALL ABOUT SECURITY?

    Without a BB Protect server to validate, if you have to reboot your phone for any reason, it will become a brick - PERMANENTLY. That's part of the anti-theft laws that were passed in the US and elsewhere a few years ago, but it depends on those servers being up. If BB decommissions them, it's only a matter of time before a reboot will be required and your phone will be toast.

    As I said, that's the WORST (known) risk, but other things could potentially stop working that we don't even know about or can't foresee today. And because of all of these security features - which other platforms didn't have, which allows them to continue working - BB phones are absolutely reliant on BB's infrastructure to run.
    02-03-18 10:11 PM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I purchased a phone on it's launch day in 2011, whose OS was killed almost immediately. Seven years hence and I am still using it perfectly*, even though the company itself is no more.

    So no, I don't think our BB10 phones will have any issue/s as a communicating device even past 2019.

    *works fine for call, text, email, browsing, photo/video with good battery life till date.
    What phone is that?
    02-04-18 06:38 AM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    The main thing that is different about BB phones compared to all others is that they're BB phones! You know, BB, the company that's ALL ABOUT SECURITY?

    Without a BB Protect server to validate, if you have to reboot your phone for any reason, it will become a brick - PERMANENTLY. That's part of the anti-theft laws that were passed in the US and elsewhere a few years ago, but it depends on those servers being up. If BB decommissions them, it's only a matter of time before a reboot will be required and your phone will be toast.

    As I said, that's the WORST (known) risk, but other things could potentially stop working that we don't even know about or can't foresee today. And because of all of these security features - which other platforms didn't have, which allows them to continue working - BB phones are absolutely reliant on BB's infrastructure to run.
    I reboot my phone daily with the radio off. Do you mean restore?

    Also, BlackBerry Protect can be turned off by the BlackBerry Account owner. Moreover, the same servers authenticate BBIDs for the Android phones, so there would be no reason to turn them off. They may even be legally required to maintain the anti-theft protections.

    Finally, even if they did decide to stop authentication for BBIDs for BB10 devices, they could simply toggle off BlackBerry Protect for all such devices

    There are many reasons that someone might decide to migrate off of the BB10 platform prior to its official EOL date, but we've seen no indication that there's a "kill switch" built into the phones.

    My BlackBerry PlayBook continues to authenticate on the same servers years after its EOL date, and it's still very usable within a narrow range of supported functions. The same goes for BBOS devices.
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 02-04-18 at 07:14 AM.
    Qorax, iled, BigAl_BB9900 and 1 others like this.
    02-04-18 06:53 AM
  14. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    I reboot my phone daily with the radio off. Do you mean restore?

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Yes, I'm pretty sure he must mean a wipe and restore.

    I'm with you that BlackBerry's official 'last day' is not the same as when the phones will all cease to function. The other fact that is hard to forget is that the community here alone will help to keep people going for some time. Even if you can't use BlackBerry World anymore, I'm sure that some creative and passionate folk will create some sort of 'BlackBerry Underground' or, at the very least, we will be able to find and share apps through links in the CB forums.
    Qorax likes this.
    02-04-18 07:07 AM
  15. kvndoom's Avatar
    Would a new-in-box phone be unable to activate? There will still be unsold phones popping out of the woodwork every so often.
    02-04-18 10:02 AM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Would a new-in-box phone be unable to activate? There will still be unsold phones popping out of the woodwork every so often.
    My guess is that BlackBerry will maintain their BBID authentication severs because these are used by all devices (BBOS, PlayBook, BB10, and BlackBerry Android). If that's the case, setting up or restoring a BB10 phone would not present a problem.

    But there won't be any service level commitments to guarantee availability to BB10 phones after the end of support.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Qorax likes this.
    02-04-18 10:27 AM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I reboot my phone daily with the radio off. Do you mean restore?
    BB Protect apparently verifies the validity of the phone anytime it is rebooted, even if you have BB Protect off. It seems to be part of the anti-theft system.

    Also, BlackBerry Protect can be turned off by the BlackBerry Account owner. Moreover, the same servers authenticate BBIDs for the Android phones, so there would be no reason to turn them off. They may even be legally required to maintain the anti-theft protections.
    That part is true - they may have some other reasons or obligations to keep those servers running, at least for a while beyond 1/1/2020. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're the same servers (or the same database) being used for Android BBIDs, though they certainly could be.

    The real issue is that who can say for sure WHAT the situation is going to be? It's known that BBOS and BB10 have a number of dependencies on BB services, by design, as part of BB's "enhanced security" - which makes BB phones different than Symbian or WebOS or Meego phones that a few people still manage to use today. Given BB's position on phones today (much less 2 years from now), that's a pretty big liability (IMO, anyway) for someone relying on their BB10 phone after 12/31/2019. Technically, that's the end of official support, so after that, things could break at anytime with no warning, and with no solution.

    I only bring it up because I'm not sure that everyone has thought it through. Especially those who have given the examples of other older phones still functioning - phones without the dependencies that BB's OSs have - and assuming that it won't be any different for BB10. I think it will be very different.

    Certainly, it's POSSIBLE for BB to release an update that removes these dependencies, but does anyone really think it's likely that BB is going to spend the money to develop, test, and deploy those updates given the situation (likely well under 100K BB10 devices in use by 1/1/2020, and the newest being 6 years old)? I don't see it happening.
    02-04-18 11:01 AM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    BB Protect apparently verifies the validity of the phone anytime it is rebooted, even if you have BB Protect off. It seems to be part of the anti-theft system.
    There is an internal integrity check, but there is no requirement for BB10, BBOS, or PlayBook devices to authenticate with the servers upon boot. The only time that becomes relevant is if the phone is restored following a security wipe. That's the anti-theft detection.

    The easy way to prove this is to turn off the radios and reboot the devices. They reboot just fine with the radios off. I do this regularly.

    If external authentication was required upon boot, it would be impossible to boot the device at any location without a cellular or WiFi connection. This is not the case at all.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-04-18 11:24 AM
  19. the_boon's Avatar
    BB Protect apparently verifies the validity of the phone anytime it is rebooted, even if you have BB Protect off. It seems to be part of the anti-theft system.



    That part is true - they may have some other reasons or obligations to keep those servers running, at least for a while beyond 1/1/2020. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're the same servers (or the same database) being used for Android BBIDs, though they certainly could be.

    The real issue is that who can say for sure WHAT the situation is going to be? It's known that BBOS and BB10 have a number of dependencies on BB services, by design, as part of BB's "enhanced security" - which makes BB phones different than Symbian or WebOS or Meego phones that a few people still manage to use today. Given BB's position on phones today (much less 2 years from now), that's a pretty big liability (IMO, anyway) for someone relying on their BB10 phone after 12/31/2019. Technically, that's the end of official support, so after that, things could break at anytime with no warning, and with no solution.

    I only bring it up because I'm not sure that everyone has thought it through. Especially those who have given the examples of other older phones still functioning - phones without the dependencies that BB's OSs have - and assuming that it won't be any different for BB10. I think it will be very different.

    Certainly, it's POSSIBLE for BB to release an update that removes these dependencies, but does anyone really think it's likely that BB is going to spend the money to develop, test, and deploy those updates given the situation (likely well under 100K BB10 devices in use by 1/1/2020, and the newest being 6 years old)? I don't see it happening.
    This. Honestly at this point BBMo is releasing 2 PKB devices this year, and KEYone prices will start dropping even more. In a year and on, it will be really affordable and would make a nice budget PKB/backup/burner etc... Thankfully there IS a future for PKB, at the moment. No need to hang onto BB10 devices like they're our last hope of pushing buttons.
    Starting now would be a really good time to sell off BB10 devices while they're still worth some value.
    02-04-18 11:28 AM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    This. Honestly at this point BBMo is releasing 2 PKB devices this year, and KEYone prices will start dropping even more. In a year and on, it will be really affordable and would make a nice budget PKB/backup/burner etc... Thankfully there IS a future for PKB, at the moment. No need to hang onto BB10 devices like they're our last hope of pushing buttons.
    Starting now would be a really good time to sell off BB10 devices while they're still worth some value.
    If the most important element of a BB10 phone for you is the PKB, the KEYone is excellent. For me, however, the PKB is incidental. I like the VKB and PKB equally. What I will miss about the BB10 phones is the clean and efficient user interface. For me, Android has been a step backwards. Useful for apps, but I don't need apps for work beyond the stock apps in BB10, which I prefer to Android by a wide margin.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Qorax, amigan34 and KAM1138 like this.
    02-04-18 12:53 PM
  21. otaku2's Avatar
    My Passport (and 9900) are on T-Mobile. Would they be dependent upon T-Mo continuing to provide BIS support? Does T-Mo depend on Blackberry for that service?
    02-04-18 01:46 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    My Passport (and 9900) are on T-Mobile. Would they be dependent upon T-Mo continuing to provide BIS support? Does T-Mo depend on Blackberry for that service?
    You need both for BIS - carrier AND BlackBerry.

    But BB10 does not use BIS.
    02-04-18 01:47 PM
  23. otaku2's Avatar
    You need both for BIS - carrier AND BlackBerry.

    But BB10 does not use BIS.
    So only the 9900 would lose data service if T-Mo were to shut down their BIS? I suppose that if they've kept the servers turned on this long just to support the BBOS devices then they will continue to do so.
    tigre2098 likes this.
    02-04-18 01:53 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    So only the 9900 would lose data service if T-Mo were to shut down their BIS? I suppose that if they've kept the servers turned on this long just to support the BBOS devices then they will continue to do so.
    Correct.

    Of course, BlackBerry can turn off BIS support at its end too - which seemed to be the implication of the Dec 2019 EOL date.
    Last edited by conite; 02-05-18 at 12:14 AM.
    02-04-18 01:55 PM
  25. Bla1ze's Avatar
    I hear the BlackBerry fairy comes and collects all the BB10 devices and leaves you a shiny penny.
    02-04-18 11:58 PM
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