06-26-14 09:15 PM
38 12
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  1. SenorPistachio's Avatar
    First of all, i want to start this thread to vent my thoughts. Take it with a grain of salt, but flame me if necessary.

    Ever since i've seen the display for the Passport, i loved it. The big screen in combination with the keyboard, out of this world, shut up and take my money. However, i'm not sold on the Passport keyboard wise, and tbh, i don't think i will be.

    First, i've read that if you tilt your device you could use the keyboard as a trackpad to scroll. Can someone please explain to me why the hell you would want to tilt a 1:1 screen?

    Second, and this is my main concern. I've read things like small oled displays, e-paper, and i got excited, only to read from a few people -who have actually used the device-, that you'd have to select certain symbols on-screen from a menu. That, to me, is a HUGE step backwards.

    Now i'm looking at the Passport pictures, and i'm thinking. If something isn't broke, why the hell would you want to 'fix' it? I mean let's say for arguments sake that the first 3 rows are touch sensitive, why wouldn't you include a 4th row ( does not have to be touch sensitive per say ) with the most used symbols as main ( think . / , ? ! @ # ) , and use the secondary functions for other stuff?

    What's so revolutionary about the keyboard? What am i missing here? Except for the swiping capabilities of course.

    The keyboard for me is the only reason i'm considering a Q20 now, and i just don't like this feeling.
    I know, i know, i'm judging before i've actually used the device, but come on, i can't be the only one feeling a bit weird about this?
    viper-85 likes this.
    06-24-14 09:14 AM
  2. mastermike87's Avatar
    This is a very good example of TL;DR, a concept I hardly get to utilize on CB.

    That said, I want to answer the one question regarding 1:1 and flipping.

    In normal "vertical" mode, I equate that to a two handed experience. In "horizontal" mode, I equate that to one of the first blackberries with the wheel on the right hand side you'd use to scroll. I could envision someone holding the device simply in their right hand and using their right thumb to scroll using the capacitive.

    Your gripes about the symbols seem unwarranted given the rumours and the fact that no one really knows how it'll all play out.

    My final point is this: it's certainly evident that you are resistant to change. BlackBerry is trying something new here instead of being complacent. The classic is the true attempt to move OS7s forward and secure those consumers. But if you're not flexible enough to be an first mover/early adopter, let's save the concerns for until after some demos and reviews come out or at least until you demo one.

    Posted via CB10
    Hup55 and SenorPistachio like this.
    06-24-14 09:25 AM
  3. kbz1960's Avatar
    Who knows if people will like it or not. It may be great for whatever its intended purpose is but that may make it suck as far as a daily phone? People hate change, we saw that from legacy users.
    06-24-14 09:28 AM
  4. domolsz's Avatar
    There's clearly a trade off between the screen size and keyboard size. I believe Blackberry was seeking to maximise the screen estate while keeping the device size reasonable and found that they could remove one row of keys to achieve it, without compromising user expierance.

    I also feel than many people complaining about the new keyboard forget that the device needs to be properly balanced vertically (I believe this is the main reason they decided to go with 1:1 screen with all of their keyboard devices). One less row of keys makes the device shorter and improves the balance.

    We clearly do not know enough about the keyboard yet to judge it properly. Also, remember that there is no progress without getting out of your comfort zone - Blackberry at least deserves a credit for pushing the boundaries.





    Posted via CB10
    SenorPistachio likes this.
    06-24-14 09:42 AM
  5. kbz1960's Avatar
    The kb looks too close to the bottom of the phone for me. I am constantly hitting a bottom row letter on my Z30 when I want the space bar. This thing is even lower. That is just what I'm seeing for my use.
    SenorPistachio and Fatboy40 like this.
    06-24-14 10:15 AM
  6. dejanh's Avatar
    The reason why you rotate the device to landscape to scroll is because majority of the scrolling happens vertically and the only way that you have vertical "height" allowing you to scroll is of you flip the device on its side.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    SenorPistachio likes this.
    06-24-14 10:35 AM
  7. Fatboy40's Avatar
    The kb looks too close to the bottom of the phone for me. I am constantly hitting a bottom row letter on my Z30 when I want the space bar. This thing is even lower. That is just what I'm seeing for my use.
    This was also one of the 1st things I though of as well, if you hold the device at an angle with your hands at the every bottom of it will gravity not cause it to lean backwards even more, your hands are going to get tired typing and firmly holding it so it doesn't lean backwards ?.
    kbz1960 and SenorPistachio like this.
    06-24-14 10:37 AM
  8. StoicEngineer's Avatar
    ... that you'd have to select certain symbols on-screen from a menu. That, to me, is a HUGE step backwards.
    This is what happens now with the Q10 (maybe Q5 too). Hitting the sym key presents a symbol map on the screen. While it's true that you can touch the appropriate symbol on the screen, you can select the symbol by hitting the corresponding mapped key on the keyboard.

    Using the keyboard does not slow you down at all, if you don't count the use of the sym key.

    If the Passport allows one to swipe down anywhere on the keyboard to launch the symbol map, even better.
    06-24-14 10:43 AM
  9. II ARROWS's Avatar
    This is what happens now with the Q10 (maybe Q5 too). Hitting the sym key presents a symbol map on the screen. While it's true that you can touch the appropriate symbol on the screen, you can select the symbol by hitting the corresponding mapped key on the keyboard.

    Using the keyboard does not slow you down at all, if you don't count the use of the sym key.

    If the Passport allows one to swipe down anywhere on the keyboard to launch the symbol map, even better.
    The difference, and thus the huge step down, is that you can press ALT and press the symbol that is printed on the keyboard.
    SenorPistachio likes this.
    06-24-14 10:53 AM
  10. gg bb's Avatar
    The reason why you rotate the device to landscape to scroll is because majority of the scrolling happens vertically and the only way that you have vertical "height" allowing you to scroll is of you flip the device on its side.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    It was possible to scroll up and down with a trackpad, only needs one capacitive key, and what about moving cursor side to side while editing?
    Still there are some cases where a long slider at side of screen may be preferable.

    I hope the functionality is there in either orieenntation.
    06-24-14 02:24 PM
  11. SenorPistachio's Avatar
    This is a very good example of TL;DR, a concept I hardly get to utilize on CB.

    That said, I want to answer the one question regarding 1:1 and flipping.

    In normal "vertical" mode, I equate that to a two handed experience. In "horizontal" mode, I equate that to one of the first blackberries with the wheel on the right hand side you'd use to scroll. I could envision someone holding the device simply in their right hand and using their right thumb to scroll using the capacitive.

    Your gripes about the symbols seem unwarranted given the rumours and the fact that no one really knows how it'll all play out.

    My final point is this: it's certainly evident that you are resistant to change. BlackBerry is trying something new here instead of being complacent. The classic is the true attempt to move OS7s forward and secure those consumers. But if you're not flexible enough to be an first mover/early adopter, let's save the concerns for until after some demos and reviews come out or at least until you demo one.

    Posted via CB10
    If change is needed, i'm all for it.

    Q10 screen is too small? Change it. Q10 processor could use a bump? Change it. Try new things and evolve? Do it if necessary, but the keyboard was one of the things that really didn't need any change, and if you really have to, make it more efficient instead of what is coming now. Why all the mystery surrounding the keyboard? Why would you not show how the keyboard will work? I'm just worried that the phone itself will be one big assed beast, but that the keyboard will suck. I also agree with the poster that said it's too low, but i'm guessing that it will balance itself out.

    It's good to see people are optimistic about it, but i just don't want to get my hopes up.
    viper-85 likes this.
    06-24-14 07:36 PM
  12. mastermike87's Avatar
    If change is needed, i'm all for it.

    Q10 screen is too small? Change it. Q10 processor could use a bump? Change it. Try new things and evolve? Do it if necessary, but the keyboard was one of the things that really didn't need any change, and if you really have to, make it more efficient instead of what is coming now. Why all the mystery surrounding the keyboard? Why would you not show how the keyboard will work? I'm just worried that the phone itself will be one big assed beast, but that the keyboard will suck. I also agree with the poster that said it's too low, but i'm guessing that it will balance itself out.

    It's good to see people are optimistic about it, but i just don't want to get my hopes up.
    Change, my friend, is never needed. It's organic.

    I'm not going to profess to be an expert in the telecom industry, but I've observed that complacency will move you from 1st place to a distant third/fourth depending upon if you're glass half empty or full. I've also observed that sometimes the consumer needs guidance to determine their tastes and preferences. To this last point, the marketplace hasn't seen a phone like this, so consumers don't know if they'd prefer that to the brick designs of the mega and 5s.

    Only one way to find out.

    Posted via CB10
    06-24-14 10:09 PM
  13. abramadhi's Avatar
    Found this link from another thread:

    The enigmatic BlackBerry Windermere project - BerryNation
    http://www.berrynation.es/enigmatico...to-windermere/



    Posted via CB10
    06-24-14 10:38 PM
  14. StoicEngineer's Avatar
    Have you seen this from CrackBerry?
    Reported by Bla1ze, he says that this was briefly on the Inside BlackBerry blog. Seems that the keyboard is multifunctional.


    "Great keyboards have always been a part of the BlackBerry heritage. With our coming Passport device that has generated a ton of interest, we set out to create a smartphone that would break through and deliver a step change in productivity. Passport will show there is a better way to accomplish more.

    "Besides the massive square touchscreen, we've added a new innovative, touch-enabled keyboard to the Passport. It integrates the excellent tactile feel and performance you've come to know and love from our keyboards, along with the same capacitive touch technology found on modern phone and tablet touchscreens.

    "Ever been annoyed by your fingers obscuring, or worse, smudging, your touchscreen? Or had difficulty getting the cursor to just the right spot? Passport's efficient design makes those problems things of the past. You'll be able to navigate web pages, apps and e-mails by lightly brushing your fingers over the keys. It's a minimalist design that eliminates dedicated arrow keys while maximizing the already-awesome amount of screen real estate. You'll also enjoy Passport's other custom commands that take advantage of the touch-enabled keyboard to boost your productivity. Here are some of the ways:

    "Scrolling: As noted above, you can use the keyboard to swipe up and down to scroll on long lists or in the browser. Keeping your fingers off the screen and focused on what's happening.

    "Cursor Control and Text Selection: This is a classic BlackBerry productivity enhancement reinvented for the Passport. Double-tap the keyboard, then drag your finger across the keyboard to drop the cursor at precisely the right point. Or select the text just as you would on an older BlackBerry: hold the SHIFT key while dragging your finger across the keyboard to extend a selection.

    "Contextual virtual keys: In addition to the Passport's very clean physical QWERTY keyboard, we have added a dynamic virtual row on-screen that smartly shifts depending on context. So if you're typing a password on-screen, numbers and symbols commonly used in passwords will automatically pop up. Or if you're typing an e-mail address, the '@' symbol will be displayed. Or if you're surfing the Web, the colon and backslash characters needed to type in a URL will be displayed. And if you need access to any special symbol or character, just swipe down on the keyboard to see all of them at once. Like I said, smart!

    "Flick: Stuck on a word? BlackBerry 10's Next Word Suggestion feature learns from you to give you smart, personalized choice of words you're likely to type. You then just flick up to complete the word. No more Darn Auto-Corrects, as you type faster and more accurately over all.

    "Delete: Made a mistake? No problem, just swipe back (left) to Delete the last word, just like on our virtual keyboard!

    "Entering an accented character? Hold the letter key down, and then lightly tap on the key to add the appropriate accent!"
    SenorPistachio likes this.
    06-24-14 10:49 PM
  15. viper-85's Avatar
    agh.
    I was also hyped about the possibly e-paper keyboard - that would have been AWEESSSOOOME!!!!!!! (i use 2 languages daily)
    Also, considering a 4th row - it would have increased the phone by reallllly little, but the trade off would have been great.

    Still hoping for the super-awesome keyboard i was hoping for and hearing about but looks like it ain't coming..
    SenorPistachio likes this.
    06-25-14 01:44 PM
  16. SenorPistachio's Avatar
    Yeah...so it seems we have to swipe to get an on-screen list of characters.

    Guess i'll have to get used to it.

    The fourth row would have been perfect in combination with the trackpad functionality of the keyboard.

    Ugh.
    viper-85 likes this.
    06-25-14 02:47 PM
  17. 018125's Avatar
    Yeah...so it seems we have to swipe to get an on-screen list of characters.

    Guess i'll have to get used to it.

    The fourth row would have been perfect in combination with the trackpad functionality of the keyboard.

    Ugh.
    Sadly this one minor error will cause this phone to flop. People who want hardware keyboards are people who like familiarity. They will not adopt a phone that requires them to take a different and less intuitive action to select common symbols.

    So close, BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    06-25-14 02:50 PM
  18. dejanh's Avatar
    Sadly this one minor error will cause this phone to flop. People who want hardware keyboards are people who like familiarity. They will not adopt a phone that requires them to take a different and less intuitive action to select common symbols.

    So close, BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    Imagine if Apple thought like this...also, who says that it is less intuitive? Until you try it you really can't say.
    06-25-14 04:23 PM
  19. 018125's Avatar
    Imagine if Apple thought like this...also, who says that it is less intuitive? Until you try it you really can't say.
    I can only take the word of people who have used it, and it's not positive.

    I'm a huge BlackBerry fanboy, I want this to be successful.

    Posted via CB10
    SenorPistachio likes this.
    06-25-14 05:40 PM
  20. StoicEngineer's Avatar

    ... People who want hardware keyboards are people who like familiarity. They will not adopt a phone that requires them to take a different and less intuitive action to select common symbols. ...
    Seriously? I use a Q10. It didn't take me long to memorise that alt-n gives me a comma and alt-i gives me a dash.

    I think that you aren't giving people, even newbies, enough credit.
    06-25-14 05:41 PM
  21. viper-85's Avatar
    Granted, it's a longshot, but @Bla1ze / Kevin - what are the odds of seeing a passport with a full keyboard??
    (Sort of a Q10 with the passport's dimentions+screen)

    I'm using symbols, numbers and a second language too often to have this small of a screen covered with a keyboard half of the time.
    06-25-14 06:34 PM
  22. SenorPistachio's Avatar
    Can't knock it till you've tried it, true.

    But let me ask you this.

    Why would you want to fix something that isn't broken?

    Never, and i mean NEVER have i heard ANYONE complain that they had to press alt + v to get a question mark for example. Granted, the placing of the secondary buttons could have been better ( if you're interested in this take a look at my thread here : http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...inside-918708/ ), but going from alt + v for question mark to swipe down and select from a on-screen menu is not an improvement. I love to type blindly on my Q10, can't do that anymore.

    I'm just pissed off to be honest. The Passport is one bad-*** phone that could be the do-or-die phone for BBRY, whoever came up with this stupid idea needs to be axed.

    Tell me honestly, do you think swiping up + selecting from the on-screen menu is more effective than a possible 4th row?
    Bobert_123 and Ahmed Hanif like this.
    06-25-14 09:55 PM
  23. Ahmed Hanif's Avatar
    +1

    Mr A Hanif BlackBerry10
    06-25-14 10:02 PM
  24. evodevo69's Avatar
    There is an entire generation of users that have never even used a physical qwerty before.

    Perhaps they will find this new kb experience to be more efficient than what they've been used to?

    Also, for sectors that have been utilizing tablets (medicine), having this new kb is probably better than the ones on the ipads.

    They made the classic for all the people who couldn't /didn't want to adapt to bb10, they even made it look like the bold 9900 which is lame to me, but that's what the dinosaurs wanted apparently.

    If you're in a field that demands that you "need" a trackpad, call and end buttons, chances are the classic will be suited for you - don't b*tch about the passport, which is clearly being made for users with different needs.

    Posted via CB10
    06-25-14 10:10 PM
  25. lovedaazn's Avatar
    There's clearly a trade off between the screen size and keyboard size. I believe Blackberry was seeking to maximise the screen estate while keeping the device size reasonable and found that they could remove one row of keys to achieve it, without compromising user expierance.

    I also feel than many people complaining about the new keyboard forget that the device needs to be properly balanced vertically (I believe this is the main reason they decided to go with 1:1 screen with all of their keyboard devices). One less row of keys makes the device shorter and improves the balance.

    We clearly do not know enough about the keyboard yet to judge it properly. Also, remember that there is no progress without getting out of your comfort zone - Blackberry at least deserves a credit for pushing the boundaries.





    Posted via CB10
    I totally agree in regards to pushing boundaries. Look at Samsung and Apple for example. Since the GS1 and the Iphone 3 in 2007, it has been the same concept in design. Between the full touch and and boring home button, it's been the same thing since 2007. At least BlackBerry has the BALLS to actually market and release a product that is so far out of the average device. Having said that, I am also confused of why the keyboard is like that, but I do not yet understand it completely. I will leave my comments to myself until I actually see it released.
    06-25-14 10:11 PM
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