04-01-17 08:01 AM
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  1. ryder55's Avatar
    Wow this thread shows you when the crazy comes out. Passport was released 3 yrs ago. Everyone b!tches about how old the HW is when it was released when it was released. People are already complaining about the KEYone's HW being old. and someone is telling me the HW on the Passport is not older than Keyone. No one said anything about Software but lets go into that. 10.3.3 is getting maintenance, nothing new again what part of old is not correct? KEYone will be released with 7.1.
    OK let's go there, passport Gorilla glass 453 pixels, keyone 433 pixels ips screen, passport 13 megapix, keyone 12MP, processing power, really negligible, battery negligible etc. Age is relative, effectiveness is where it's at. If I want a pkb android lol I'll be looking at a Motorola Droid.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    03-07-17 08:20 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    OK let's go there, passport Gorilla glass 453 pixels, keyone 433 pixels ips screen, passport 13 megapix, keyone 12MP, processing power, really negligible, battery negligible etc. Age is relative, effectiveness is where it's at. If I want a pkb android lol I'll be looking at a Motorola Droid.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    Geekbench 4:

    801 (2.2GHz) - 1307 64-bit multicore
    625 - 2984 (2.3x higher)

    3DMark (ice storm extreme 1920x1080):

    801 - 4422
    625 - 13819 (3.1x higher)


    Only 625 has OpenGL, BT 4.1, eMMC 5.1, 4k video.

    625 is 14nm technology instead of 28nm. It will be far better on battery.

    You can't compare MP on camera. The KEYone sensor is far, far superior. It has a huge 1/2.3" and 1.55um sensor.

    Frankly, the hardware is in a different league.
    Last edited by conite; 03-07-17 at 09:30 PM.
    03-07-17 09:14 PM
  3. ryder55's Avatar
    Geekbench 4:

    801 (2.2GHz) - 1307 64-bit multicore
    625 - 2984 (2.3x higher)

    3DMark (ice storm extreme 1920x1080):

    801 - 4422
    625 - 13819 (3.1x higher)


    Only 625 has OpenGL, BT 4.1, eMMC 5.1, 4k video.

    625 is 14nm technology instead of 28nm. It will be far better on battery.

    You can't compare MP on camera. The KEYone sensor is far, far superior. It has a huge 1/2.3" and 1.55um sensor.

    Frankly, the hardware is in a different league.
    Actually Conite, using the same phones, the geekbench score for 801 single core averages 1050 and 2230 for multicore and SD 625 is 845 single core, with multicore score of 3105. the benefits of a higher single core score works better really in real world computing meaning their differences are negligible.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    03-07-17 09:48 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Actually Conite, using the same phones, the geekbench score for 801 single core averages 1050 and 2230 for multicore and SD 625 is 845 single core, with multicore score of 3105. the benefits of a higher single core score works better really in real world computing meaning their differences are negligible.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    You're not using the correct 801. The Passport's is the AA model. My numbers are correct.

    If you don't think multiple cores are hugely significant, you don't understand HMP.

    http://www.androidauthority.com/fact...u-core-610352/

    Plus BB10 is stuck on 32-bit, which processes less data per cycle, has inferior encryption, and is less power efficient.
    Last edited by conite; 03-07-17 at 10:15 PM.
    03-07-17 10:03 PM
  5. sorinv's Avatar
    Geekbench 4:

    801 (2.2GHz) - 1307 64-bit multicore
    625 - 2984 (2.3x higher)

    3DMark (ice storm extreme 1920x1080):

    801 - 4422
    625 - 13819 (3.1x higher)


    Only 625 has OpenGL, BT 4.1, eMMC 5.1, 4k video.

    625 is 14nm technology instead of 28nm. It will be far better on battery.

    You can't compare MP on camera. The KEYone sensor is far, far superior. It has a huge 1/2.3" and 1.55um sensor.

    Frankly, the hardware is in a different league.
    There is hardly any difference in transistor speed between 28nm planar CMOS and 14nm finFET CMOS. The difference is mostly in the number of transistors per area and cores. Hence the clock speed of the Passport is about the same as that of the Key1.

    Most of the RF chips have not migrated from 45nm and 28nm to 14nm finFET precisely because the finFET is not a good device for RF. The parasitic capacitance is too high and the gate length is longer than 20nm. It's currently only used in the processor.
    For RF, 28nm FDSOI and, soon, 22nm and 12nm FDSOI CMOS, are much better.
    Things may change with the new 7nm finFET technology from GF, but even they are pushing FDSOI, not finFET for RF.

    The main point is that Key1 is three years newer than the Passport but its hardware is comparable in performance. It's not top of the line, and android is supposed to need more powerful hardware than bb10 just to keep the same performance and battery life.
    I am not even mentioning all those zero day vulnerabilities that were disclosed today ;-) but I am!

    Posted via CB10
    kunz1925shooter likes this.
    03-07-17 10:20 PM
  6. gruv4u's Avatar
    Unfortunately, Blackberry chose to include an android based software moving forward. As much as I hate android (just like you) and apple, I am inclined to walk into a store in April (or May) and try one on for size. I originally thought that I could never be happy with a smaller screen than my Passport and I still do sooner or later I will have too as I (we) are being forced to switch operating systems since Blackberry did NOT put any effort in marketing BB10 properly since it came to market. I started with built in screwed down car phones (I believe it was a uniden) for a buck a minute and $1500 for the phone installed and my first blackberry product was a 957. I remember loving my 7510 so much until I got a 7520 with a color screen. I remember the anticipation and feeling of finally receiving my NEW blackberry each time a new one hit the market on day one but I dont have that feeling anymore even after watching the KeyOne presentation! It was great seeing Kevin as Host even thought the video cut out right after he mentioned TCL but I think I have lost that loving feeling....now its gone gone gone wo oo wo oo wo
    My sentiments, exactly!

     Passport SE SQW100-4 with Vitamin (SR) 10.3.2.2836 (OS Version) 10.3.2.2876 on AT&T
    rebroker2009 likes this.
    03-07-17 10:24 PM
  7. conite's Avatar

    The main point is that Key1 is three years newer than the Passport but its hardware is comparable in performance. It's not top of the line, and android is supposed to need more powerful hardware than bb10 just to keep the same performance and battery life.

    Posted via CB10
    A 14nm SoC is about 40 percent faster compared to 28nm SoCs and allows 50 percent better battery life.

    GLOBALFOUNDRIES goes even farther and says that 14nm technology can provide up to 55% higher device performance and 60% lower total power compared to 28nm technologies.

    If 2x to 3x performance is comparable, then sure.
    03-07-17 10:28 PM
  8. sorinv's Avatar
    A 14nm SoC is about 40 percent faster compared to 28nm SoCs and allows 50 percent better battery life.

    If 2x to 3x performance is comparable, then sure.
    Nope! I recommend you attend IEEE IEDM and IEEE RFIC.
    You'll see that there is hardly any speed improvement from 28nm to 14nm finFET and that a 28nm FDSOI MOSFET has 24nm gate length and a 14nm FinFET can have over 25nm gate length.
    Gate length dictates speed, not technology name, which is mostly a marketing term.
    I also recommend you read the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors 2016 edition (the last one ever) to see what the physical gate length is for each technology node.

    Posted via CB10
    03-07-17 10:30 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    Nope! I recommend you attend IEEE IEDM and IEEE RFIC.
    You'll see that there is hardly any speed improvement from 28nm to 14nm finFET and that a 28nm FDSOI MOSFET has 24nm gate length and a 14nm FinFET can have over 25nm gate length.
    Gate length dictates speed, not technology name, which is mostly a marketing term.
    I also recommend you read the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors 2016 edition (the last one ever) to see what the physical gate length is for each technology node.

    Posted via CB10
    Well, I guess Qualcomm missed the conference too.

    "In addition to a dramatic increase in performance, the Snapdragon 625 14 nm FinFET technology, yields up to a 35 percent reduction in power consumption compared to the previous generation."
    03-07-17 10:42 PM
  10. sorinv's Avatar
    Well, I guess Qualcomm missed the conference too.

    "In addition to a dramatic increase in performance, the Snapdragon 625 14 nm FinFET technology, yields up to a 35 percent reduction in power consumption compared to the previous generation."
    That's marketing...
    Here are two papers on the currently most advanced CMOS technologies from IEDM in December 2016 in San Francisco.
    You'll see that 7nm finFET technology has 15nm physical gate length and that 22nm FDSOI MOSFETs have 20nm gate length "and the same performance as finFET ". Both papers are from GF, so they are not biased in favour of one technology over the other and 7nm is faster and lower power than 14nm finFeT!

    Reactions to the KeyOne from Passport users...-img_20170307_235708.png
    Reactions to the KeyOne from Passport users...-img_20170307_235717.png

    Reactions to the KeyOne from Passport users...-img_20170307_235837.png
    Reactions to the KeyOne from Passport users...-img_20170307_235843.png


    Reactions to the KeyOne from Passport users...-img_20170307_235741.png
    Reactions to the KeyOne from Passport users...-img_20170307_235749.png
    Reactions to the KeyOne from Passport users...-img_20170307_235755.png
    Reactions to the KeyOne from Passport users...-img_20170307_235806.png

    Posted via CB10
    03-07-17 11:00 PM
  11. ryder55's Avatar
    It definitely is marketing.

    We also need to see real world tests. The keyone is not future proof as to keep up with Googles updates especially while running an extra layer of zero day software and play services background spy collection and constant Picasa uploads on only 3gb of RAM. Time will tell

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    03-07-17 11:11 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    It definitely is marketing.

    We also need to see real world tests. The keyone is not future proof as to keep up with Googles updates especially while running an extra layer of zero day software and play services background spy collection and constant Picasa uploads on only 3gb of RAM. Time will tell

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    You guys are awesome.

    You could stand out in the pouring rain and tell everyone watching that it's sunny - with a straight face. Lol
    03-07-17 11:16 PM
  13. sorinv's Avatar
    You guys are awesome.

    You could stand out in the pouring rain and tell everyone watching that it's sunny - with a straight face. Lol
    I assume you already read the papers I posted...and you take all industry announcements at face value ;-) without reading the disclaimer and fine print...like some read the privacy policies of the Internet companies.

    Posted via CB10
    03-07-17 11:28 PM
  14. guygardner73's Avatar
    Android is powerful because it traded instant profit for market share by accessing cheap markets. A thing blackberry needs to learn. Remember how priced the first nexus devices were? You could get a nexus 4 for 200-300 dollars. Google accessed niche markets in China and third world countries by selling their software for free. That's the power of a long term strategy and vision. Blackberry needs to stay within its own niche. Without it, it's lost.

    Posted via CB10
    Why are you discussing this in this thread? Besides which, you're ill informed on some points and irrelevant on others. BlackBerry is staying within it's own niche and focusing on software. Devices are made and distributed by a licensed partner. I don't know where you've been but "software is the new BlackBerry".

    Posted via CB10
    03-07-17 11:49 PM
  15. ryder55's Avatar
    Why are you discussing this in this thread? Besides which, you're ill informed on some points and irrelevant on others. BlackBerry is staying within it's own niche and focusing on software. Devices are made and distributed by a licensed partner. I don't know where you've been but "software is the new BlackBerry".

    Posted via CB10
    Wrong! And made worse by using baseless blanket statements.

    Blackberry needs to stay within its own niche by focusing on what makes it great - security. That's relevant for this thread. There are those of us frustrated to see the only holdout when it comes to secure mobile offering get compromised by deploying software made for data harvesting. And yes, as has been said countless times, in the wake of these current events, blackberry should continue developing bb10 for those who need a third option. There is market for a third option as long as there is ongoing future development, also, if blackberry wants to gain market share, they cannot compete with Apple on price points.

    Posted via CB10
    markmall likes this.
    03-08-17 05:41 AM
  16. deadcowboy's Avatar
    Google does not sell identifying information to any third party. Ever.

    Google does targeted advertising internally. If they have a customer that is a marriage counsellor, and you do a search for one, Google provides you the ad, and informs their client that they got a hit. That's all they get.
    Well, they give your info to the CIA too.

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-17 06:14 AM
  17. henry007's Avatar
    I'm excited for it. Honestly the biggest pluses for me and my current passport have been the battery (my biggest plus as I'm a heavy user and don't want to have to charge throughout the day), the screen size which I think this is more than adequate and they keyboard.

    The keyboard looks really nice. I ran with a classic for awhile and if it would have been slightly faster with a bigger screen I would have kept going with it. Well, this is basically that. Plus apps.

    Do I need most of those apps? Not really. But if I can get the best of both worlds than I'm all in.

    I've said it a few times and I think they hit a homerun for a pkb device with a huge battery and decent enough specs.

    Posted via CB10
    If you're big on batteries, the KEYone has the biggest battery ever seen on a blackberry and would surely last a lot longer than the passport whose android runtime is maybe 4 years old.
    The keyboard on the KEYone is also more traditional with it's 4 rows + spots a fingerprint reader for security measures. There actually is no reason to stay with the passport besides the wide QHD screen.
    03-08-17 06:52 AM
  18. bigjman's Avatar
    We now know John Chen's strategy. According to Snowden, the latest Wikileaks release shows that the U.S. government is paying tech companies to keep their platforms insecure. Maybe Chen got paid to ax BB10 since it could not be made insecure enough for the CIA's liking. (Just a conspiracy theory.)
    Not disagreeing or agreeing with your theory. But I will say it's interesting and I wouldn't be surprised if true.
    03-08-17 07:56 AM
  19. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Wrong! And made worse by using baseless blanket statements.

    Blackberry needs to stay within its own niche by focusing on what makes it great - security. That's relevant for this thread. There are those of us frustrated to see the only holdout when it comes to secure mobile offering get compromised by deploying software made for data harvesting. And yes, as has been said countless times, in the wake of these current events, blackberry should continue developing bb10 for those who need a third option. There is market for a third option as long as there is ongoing future development, also, if blackberry wants to gain market share, they cannot compete with Apple on price points.

    Posted via CB10
    Do you start every post with "Wrong!"?

    The third option which you speak didn't bring in the profit necessary to keep it afloat. BB10 is not a money making venture. The only chance they had at not pulling the plug on handsets was either developing a completely new OS or going Android.

    They chose Android and are working to harden it as much as they can which is their security niche.

    The writing is on the wall for BB10. I haven't heard of even one company trying to license the OS. That should tell you something.


     Posted via my Red Passport SQW100-1/10.3.3.2163  pin:2C09CE92
    03-08-17 09:25 AM
  20. ryder55's Avatar
    Do you start every post with "Wrong!"?

    The third option which you speak didn't bring in the profit necessary to keep it afloat. BB10 is not a money making venture. The only chance they had at not pulling the plug on handsets was either developing a completely new OS or going Android.

    They chose Android and are working to harden it as much as they can which is their security niche.

    The writing is on the wall for BB10. I haven't heard of even one company trying to license the OS. That should tell you something.


     Posted via my Red Passport SQW100-1/10.3.3.2163  pin:2C09CE92
    If it's wrong it's wrong and should absolutelyyyyy be pointed out! Do you know how many people wanted the passport? Only problem was it wasn't priced right especially against the competition? Android cannot in any way drive any meaningful profit for BlackBerry and the hardening of the kernel with play services on it is an oxymoron, and especially as it cannot control the design guidelines for app creation, a situation which only profits Google.

    If blackberry is a software company, it should engage in making blackberry 10 appealing to the masses by designing security focused consumer friendly app suites not just for corporate bosses but also for the general population. Scrap BBM or provide a competing solution like whatsapp and messenger. Build it, and the people will come as generally speaking, blackberry still has some reputation for security based solutions. This is not going to drive profits up in the short run but it's a sustainable economic strategy in the long run.

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-17 10:03 AM
  21. conite's Avatar

    If blackberry is a software company, it should engage in making blackberry 10 appealing to the masses by designing security focused consumer friendly app suites not just for corporate bosses but also for the general population. Scrap BBM or provide a competing solution like whatsapp and messenger. Build it, and the people will come as generally speaking, blackberry still has some reputation for security based solutions. This is not going to drive profits up in the short run but it's a sustainable economic strategy in the long run.

    Posted via CB10
    The market for this device would approach zero. Certainly not in the 10s of millions to make it possible.

    The decisions have already been made long ago. You're wasting your time even thinking about it, let alone posting about it.
    03-08-17 10:08 AM
  22. ryder55's Avatar
    The market for this device would approach zero. Certainly not in the 10s of millions to make it possible.

    The decisions have already been made long ago. You're wasting your time even thinking about it, let alone posting about it.
    Oh well, that's your opinion. We see it in different ways and can agree to disagree. I do think you're wrong. Android in no way advances in the long run any future profitability for BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-17 10:29 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Oh well, that's your opinion. We see it in different ways and can agree to disagree. I do think you're wrong. Android in no way advances in the long run any future profitability for BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    And that may prove to be correct too. Which would simply mean the complete exit from the smartphone world for BlackBerry. A BB10 revival is not even being contemplated. It's Android or bust. This is just a side venture for BlackBerry now anyway.
    03-08-17 10:32 AM
  24. The_KUQO_Group_C002EFE5D's Avatar
    03-08-17 10:46 AM
  25. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    If it's wrong it's wrong and should absolutelyyyyy be pointed out!

    Do you know how many people wanted the passport?

    - Not many since it didn't sell well just like every other bb10 phone.

    Only problem was it wasn't priced right especially against the competition?

    - It wasn't the only problem. No apps for casual users meant that anything lacking was dead in the water upon release. Even with all the marketing in the world, if the phone didn't have what most consumers want, it's done.


    Android cannot in any way drive any meaningful profit for BlackBerry and the hardening of the kernel with play services on it is an oxymoron, and especially as it cannot control the design guidelines for app creation, a situation which only profits Google.

    - it's only putting the software into the phones. It's not incurring the cost of designing, building, or marketing. It generates money on the license and whatever other deal with regards to sales and other things. The only cost they are incurring with their current android situation is the cost of hardening android. Profit is profit especially when your own OS hasn't made any in 4 years.

    If blackberry is a software company, it should engage in making blackberry 10 appealing to the masses by designing security focused consumer friendly app suites not just for corporate bosses but also for the general population. Scrap BBM or provide a competing solution like whatsapp and messenger. Build it, and the people will come as generally speaking, blackberry still has some reputation for security based solutions. This is not going to drive profits up in the short run but it's a sustainable economic strategy in the long run.

    - You want a company that is in the middle of a turn around to undertake all of these grand projects and expenses right now? They have to generate real profit BEFORE they can even think of anything like this.

    Posted via CB10



     Posted via my Red Passport SQW100-1/10.3.3.2163  pin:2C09CE92
    03-08-17 10:48 AM
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