04-01-17 08:01 AM
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  1. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    I agree. The Z10 was a copycat trying to appease lovers of thin glass slabs. It failed. Exactly what will happen with the DTEKs or any android phone.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    It's why BlackBerry is out of the handset business entirely and is only licensing the name.
    03-22-17 04:44 PM
  2. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Don't forget.. they sold all Passport inventory without a US launch. And when it did finally come to the US it was only available on ATT. Yet it still did well with absolutely zero advertisement.
    The question isn't whether it sold or not, but whether the sales were enough to keep BlackBerry in the handset business. According to Chen, handset weren't generating revenue for the company, no matter how many phones they put out.

    Even if they gained profit from the Passport, was it going to be enough to move the company forward? Was it enough to cover the cost related to updating, maintaining, and supporting the OS?

    We have debated whether bb10 made profit, whether each individual phone made profit, what the definition of profit meant in an article, whether android was the way to go, and a bunch of other stuff on this thread.

    It all boils down to BlackBerry deciding that bb10 wasn't worth the investment anymore.
    03-22-17 04:54 PM
  3. anon(2313227)'s Avatar
    I clearly remember Work Wide campaign, I don't know about no Passport advertising. As for profitable with BB10, BB was losing money with free money from BIS which they are still seeing today. So the only thing BB made lots of money on was BBOS devices and therefore SAF.

    A Passport is like my Fila Skeletoes (Vibram Five Fingers-like), everyone thinks they are cool when they see it but no-one uses them or buy them except select few. Pretty much true for all BB. They may say, Yeah, I like being barefoot." i.e. reminisce about using physical keyboards (passport) but when it comes to buying it, they probably won't.

    I wear these daily (Adidas Adipure, Fila's and Vibram) so I get these comment from everyone.

    Same with the Passport/Passport SE, 'oh that is cool looking', 'like a computer', 'I remember using my Curve' and then go on with their life with their slab.
    03-22-17 07:38 PM
  4. sorinv's Avatar
    I don't know how many times people have to say this, but there was no profit from any bb10 phone. If there was, the pivot to android wouldn't have happened.

    The cost to keep making phones was more than the money coming in. BB10 was never generating the cash necessary for it to continue.

    It can't be cheaper to continue when money walks out the door and never comes back. That's a sure fire way to completely out of business.
    The logic is unconvincing. The transition to android happened in December 2013 or early 2014, according to Chen.
    At that time the decision to move to android had been made. It took them two years to execute it.
    Two years of expenses on android without ANY revenue from android. Later, when Googleberries were produced, they sold in fewer numbers than bb10 phones, even two quarters ago when the last numbers for phones were made public.

    Money walked out the door for acquisitions and android development throughout 2014 -2016.

    Without the revenue from BIS, BBOS and bb10 phones during 2014, 2015, and 2016, they would have shut down in 2013. There wouldn't have been money to pay for the salaries of all those software engineers working on the software transition.

    Posted via CB10
    03-22-17 09:30 PM
  5. Rootbrian's Avatar
    I blame John Chen. He has sold out to the NSA and governments for profit over principles and the consumers see it.


    Posted via CB10
    Proof to backup that claim?

    Typed using my BlackBerry Passport running the latest QNX software release 10.3.3 on Freedom Mobile DC-HSPA+
    03-22-17 10:15 PM
  6. ryder55's Avatar
    Proof to backup that claim?

    Typed using my BlackBerry Passport running the latest QNX software release 10.3.3 on Freedom Mobile DC-HSPA+
    https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/2...ata-protection

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/0...rity_response/

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    03-22-17 10:21 PM
  7. keefrto's Avatar
    Sorry Mods but the thread has been lost here surely? Aren't we talking about the K1 from PP users?

    Love my PPSE - trade it for KeyOne?
    ratfinkstooley likes this.
    03-22-17 10:51 PM
  8. markmall's Avatar
    And Prem's and the Board's marching orders for Chen were to no longer invest in bb10. Just burn through commitments and contractual obligations. The fate of bb10 was signed, sealed, and delivered in the fall of 2013.
    You know I disagree with you on this. Also, I really don't think we know how much control Prem exercised over Chen on this and other issues.

    Posted via CB10
    03-23-17 12:04 AM
  9. markmall's Avatar
    At that point in the game, BlackBerry wrote off a billion dollars of stock of the z10. The volume for BlackBerry handsets wasn't there. Could you imagine the outcry if he produced a million or more handsets at launch and only sold like 200,000?

    They had to take calculated measures with their phone inventory.
    They sold 200,000 out of the gate. They have been selling them for years. Why not have 500K or 1M ready at launch?

    Yeah, business involves risk. Not taking risks sometimes is riskier than taking risks.

    Posted via CB10
    03-23-17 12:08 AM
  10. markmall's Avatar
    The logic is unconvincing. The transition to android happened in December 2013 or early 2014, according to Chen.
    At that time the decision to move to android had been made. It took them two years to execute it.
    Two years of expenses on android without ANY revenue from android. Later, when Googleberries were produced, they sold in fewer numbers than bb10 phones, even two quarters ago when the last numbers for phones were made public.

    Money walked out the door for acquisitions and android development throughout 2014 -2016.

    Without the revenue from BIS, BBOS and bb10 phones during 2014, 2015, and 2016, they would have shut down in 2013. There wouldn't have been money to pay for the salaries of all those software engineers working on the software transition.

    Posted via CB10
    Thank you for laying this out. They also forfeited the chance of BB10 catching on and Blackberry surviving-- an idea which most people here ridicule. But I think it could have with the right team behind it. All that effort to waste.

    It looks to me like TCL now in effect owns Blackberry (the part we care about) and John Chen oversees a holding company that owns a cluster of small startups.


    Posted via CB10
    03-23-17 12:19 AM
  11. markmall's Avatar
    The logic is unconvincing. The transition to android happened in December 2013 or early 2014, according to Chen.
    At that time the decision to move to android had been made. It took them two years to execute it.
    Two years of expenses on android without ANY revenue from android. Later, when Googleberries were produced, they sold in fewer numbers than bb10 phones, even two quarters ago when the last numbers for phones were made public.

    Money walked out the door for acquisitions and android development throughout 2014 -2016.

    Without the revenue from BIS, BBOS and bb10 phones during 2014, 2015, and 2016, they would have shut down in 2013. There wouldn't have been money to pay for the salaries of all those software engineers working on the software transition.

    Posted via CB10
    Thank you for laying this all out. I think we also should factor in the fact that they forfeited any chance of BB10 catching on. Most people here scoff at this possibility but I think it would've been a real one with the right team at the helm.

    I don't see Chen succeeding in anything at this point in his career except staying out of the way. Naming devices sure is not his strong suit. Nor is showing them off or selling them.

    Posted via CB10
    03-23-17 12:25 AM
  12. markmall's Avatar
    Sorry, duplicate.

    Posted via CB10
    03-23-17 12:26 AM
  13. The_Passporter's Avatar
    Thank you for laying this all out. I think we also should factor in the fact that they forfeited any chance of BB10 catching on. Most people here scoff at this possibility but I think it would've been a real one with the right team at the helm.

    I don't see Chen succeeding in anything at this point in his career except staying out of the way. Naming devices sure is not his strong suit. Nor is showing them off or selling them.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree with all that but with the choices of CEO's they had to run the ship Chen is the only one that was able to get the company moving in any direction. It is surely better then letting it sit in the quick sand it was in.
    I am a huge proponent of BB10 and nothing erks me more then the situation we find ourselves but he made a play and he stuck with it. The only problem is that no one except Samsung is doing well in the Android space. Consumers in general think Samsung is THE Android phone option. Sad but true. Samsung has the coffers to dominate and has.
    How BlackBerry thinks it can do better then HTC once the dominant manufacturer of Android phones in the early years of Android and now struggles to make any profit for many years is beyond me.

    I only hope that they do look back at BB10 and see what can be done with it on mobile.

    Posted via CB10
    03-23-17 04:14 AM
  14. guygardner73's Avatar
    Time to close this derailed thread.

    Posted via CB10
    03-23-17 05:09 AM
  15. ryder55's Avatar
    Time to close this derailed thread.

    Posted via CB10
    People who continuously ask for a thread to be closed don't have to read it. You can just skip on the thread.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    The_Passporter likes this.
    03-23-17 09:31 AM
  16. keefrto's Avatar
    Back in February the OP was talking about K1 and views from PP users. There is no escaping the validity of the recent comments have value but they are way off topic from the OP who hasn't commented in a while on their own thread.

    Love my PPSE - trade it for KeyOne?
    03-23-17 09:41 AM
  17. ratfinkstooley's Avatar
    Back in February the OP was talking about K1 and views from PP users. There is no escaping the validity of the recent comments have value but they are way off topic from the OP who hasn't commented in a while on their own thread.

    Love my PPSE - trade it for KeyOne?
    Not responding, no. But I am watching and reading. Yes, it's off topic, but it's still a relevant discussion. It doesn't bother me. I feel like my question was answered by many. I would like to know the reasons *some people won't be jumping from the Passport ship to the KEYone.

    I have a black and a white Passport and I'm very content for at least another year, as long as I can stay productive. I am not tempted by a narrow keyboard or worse security or a poor man's HUB or multimedia or popular games, SO I will be staying put, even though I'd like to sample the KEYone to see if my skepticism is valid. But I'm curious to know what other people who love their Passport think. Will you make the leap if the KEYone can bridge the gap between what we love about BlackBerry AND relevant software and apps?

    Either way, great discussion. I'm enjoying reading it.
    03-23-17 10:00 AM
  18. keefrto's Avatar
    There is no disputing the entertainment factor for sure! Some valid points throughout. I am struggling witht the move or not myself. Android connections to the world are far superior and added bonus of Blackberry security. It's just the whole flow and loveliness about the PPSE. #denial #aanger #finallyaceptance ? Not sure

    Love my PPSE - trade it for KeyOne?
    ratfinkstooley likes this.
    03-23-17 10:18 AM
  19. Dmd74's Avatar
    I clearly remember Work Wide campaign, I don't know about no Passport advertising. As for profitable with BB10, BB was losing money with free money from BIS which they are still seeing today. So the only thing BB made lots of money on was BBOS devices and therefore SAF.

    A Passport is like my Fila Skeletoes (Vibram Five Fingers-like), everyone thinks they are cool when they see it but no-one uses them or buy them except select few. Pretty much true for all BB. They may say, Yeah, I like being barefoot." i.e. reminisce about using physical keyboards (passport) but when it comes to buying it, they probably won't.

    I wear these daily (Adidas Adipure, Fila's and Vibram) so I get these comment from everyone.

    Same with the Passport/Passport SE, 'oh that is cool looking', 'like a computer', 'I remember using my Curve' and then go on with their life with their slab.
    I run in my Five Fingers, so I guess that I am in a small group that has the Five Fingers and a Passport?
    03-23-17 10:20 AM
  20. The_Passporter's Avatar
    Not responding, no. But I am watching and reading. Yes, it's off topic, but it's still a relevant discussion. It doesn't bother me. I feel like my question was answered by many. I would like to know the reasons *some people won't be jumping from the Passport ship to the KEYone.

    I have a black and a white Passport and I'm very content for at least another year, as long as I can stay productive. I am not tempted by a narrow keyboard or worse security or a poor man's HUB or multimedia or popular games, SO I will be staying put, even though I'd like to sample the KEYone to see if my skepticism is valid. But I'm curious to know what other people who love their Passport think. Will you make the leap if the KEYone can bridge the gap between what we love about BlackBerry AND relevant software and apps?

    Either way, great discussion. I'm enjoying reading it.
    Have to say in my case one of the factors is the differences in the HUB that keep me from moving too fast. If they could get it to work more like BB10's HUB that would be interesting.

    Until I try the KEYone's keyboard for myself I can't say I would be ok with it. As of this moment as many Passport owners will attest to, I can't imagine a better keyboard than the Passport 's.

    I do hope that's not Anti-Android?
    :O

    Posted via CB10
    ratfinkstooley likes this.
    03-23-17 10:41 AM
  21. rhp525i's Avatar
    You really can't appreciate how small the keys are on the KEYONE until you see and use it up close and personal. I know I'm biased to the passport, but it doesn't even compare to the classic. That's what was so disappointing. Otherwise, everything else seems solid.

    Posted via CB10
    ratfinkstooley likes this.
    03-23-17 11:06 AM
  22. markmall's Avatar
    You really can't appreciate how small the keys are on the KEYONE until you see and use it up close and personal. I know I'm biased to the passport, but it doesn't even compare to the classic. That's what was so disappointing. Otherwise, everything else seems solid.

    Posted via CB10
    In defense of KEYone, if you were to look at some of the old BlackBerry phones you would be amazed at how little the keyboards were. The ones from about 10 years ago. I don't know how I even used them.

    Posted via CB10
    03-23-17 12:12 PM
  23. rhp525i's Avatar
    Well I guess i'm the only one who's not in love with the keyboard. That's fine. But when I tried the priv's keyboard which many dislike and I thought it was better, that should tell you everything you need to know. To each his own.

    Posted via CB10
    ratfinkstooley likes this.
    03-23-17 12:28 PM
  24. YesAndNo's Avatar
    My reaction, meh....it is an android.

    Posted via CB10
    ratfinkstooley likes this.
    03-23-17 01:41 PM
  25. krazyatom's Avatar
    Well I guess i'm the only one who's not in love with the keyboard. That's fine. But when I tried the priv's keyboard which many dislike and I thought it was better, that should tell you everything you need to know. To each his own.

    Posted via CB10
    That's really disappointing. I had priv before and I didn't like the keyboard and I ended up using virtual keyboard only. If it's same size like priv, I may have to reconsider.

    Posted via CB10
    03-23-17 01:57 PM
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