04-01-17 08:01 AM
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  1. gallopiton's Avatar
    Sorry, nothing you can do without a link... give me a link that my comment has less logic than yours or you will need to accept that my comment is as baseless as yours before...

    You've got it backwards again. Why don't you leave the logic to those of us who understand how to use it?

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:01 PM
  2. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    Sorry, nothing you can do without a link... give me a link that my comment has less logic than yours or you will need to accept that my comment is as baseless as yours before...
    You clearly don't have the first clue about how logic works. Google "burden of proof."

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:06 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    Ongoing development and support? Hahahahaha wow. Take for example android- as you clearly know, most android devices are used AS IS, and the cost of the next software update tied into the next upgrade cycle which is especially true for Apple products. Are you talking about the 19th century?

    This is why I've been mentioning that with each upgrade cycle, Google has been expanding its reach on users data to mitigate cost which is why android users should worry.

    Posted via CB10
    So how long can BB10 devices continue to be sold without ANY support or development, without any new SoCs, without ANY distribution or sales infrastructure? Without any buildings, warehouses, or office supplies? No designers, no engineers?

    Even with cheap Android devices, you can pay $200 for the new model the next year, port your entire ecosystem, attach all your gadgets and wearables, and keep on trucking minutes later.
    Last edited by conite; 03-21-17 at 05:19 PM.
    03-21-17 05:07 PM
  4. gallopiton's Avatar
    Any link for that statement?

    You clearly don't have the first clue about how logic works. Google "burden of proof."

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:08 PM
  5. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    Any link for that statement?
    How many times? Google "burden of proof."


    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:13 PM
  6. gallopiton's Avatar
    But wait... are you saying that your statement without a link is valid and true, but the obvious fact from so many different indications that BB10 wasn't profitable needs a link or if not provided then there is no proof of that?

    How many times? Google "burden of proof."


    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:16 PM
  7. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    But wait... are you saying that your statement without a link is valid and true, but the obvious fact from so many different indications that BB10 wasn't profitable needs a link or if not provided then there is no proof of that?
    I'm saying Google "burden of proof." Then maybe you'll be able to take part without making a complete fool of yourself.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:21 PM
  8. ryder55's Avatar
    So how long can BB10 devices continue to be sold without ANY support or development, without any new SoCs, without ANY distribution or sales infrastructure? Without any buildings, warehouses, or office supplies? No designers, no engineers?

    Even with cheap Android devices, you can pay $200 for the new model the next year, port your entire ecosystem, attach all your gadgets and wearables, and keep on trucking minutes later.
    Imagine if samsung had the passport design with BB10. Definitely would have been the "next big thing". Blackberry sucked at marketing and had no confidence in its product.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:24 PM
  9. gallopiton's Avatar
    Are you sure I am the one making a complete fool of myself here? Tell me more about the profitability of BB10?

    I'm saying Google "burden of proof." Then maybe you'll be able to take part without making a complete fool of yourself.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:25 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    How many times? Google "burden of proof."


    Posted via CB10
    If I tell you airplanes can fly, do I need to prove it? Some things are simply self-evident and already considered canon.
    03-21-17 05:25 PM
  11. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    Are you sure I am the one making a complete fool of myself here? Tell me more about the profitability of BB10?
    I never claimed it was profitable. I merely challenged the claim that it wasn't. That's where the burden of proof comes into it and where you've got it backwards.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:28 PM
  12. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    If I tell you airplanes can fly, do I need to prove it? Some things are simply self-evident and already considered canon.
    Some things are self-evident. The claim that no BB10 device was ever profitable is not one of them.

    Why is it such a massive problem for you lot to obey the rules of debate and retract a claim you can't back up?

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:32 PM
  13. gallopiton's Avatar
    And that's exactly why I told you that your comment is silly... there are things that using common sense you will know, even without a link... it is a fact that BB10 is not profitable, it's a sad reality because I loved that OS... your contention is that, without a link, then it cannot be proved, even when you don't have a link to back up the opposite... since I heard that you stole some money, you will need to provide a link if you want to refute it, even when every single sign says that you did not...

    I never claimed it was profitable. I merely challenged the claim that it wasn't. That's where the burden of proof comes into it and where you've got it backwards.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:38 PM
  14. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    And that's exactly why I told you that your comment is silly... there are things that using common sense you will know, even without a link... it is a fact that BB10 is not profitable, it's a sad reality because I loved that OS... your contention is that, without a link, then it cannot be proved, even when you don't have a link to back up the opposite... since I heard that you stole some money, you will need to provide a link if you want to refute it, even when every single sign says that you did not...
    For gods sake how many times? Evidence to back up the challenge is not required. That's the principle of burden of proof. Is your grasp of the fundamentals of proper reasoning really this poor?

    You claim it's a fact. I ask for evidence. You have none. End of story. Deal with it.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:44 PM
  15. conite's Avatar
    Some things are self-evident. The claim that no BB10 device was ever profitable is not one of them.

    Why is it such a massive problem for you lot to obey the rules of debate and retract a claim you can't back up?

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry is a public company. Even they admitted publicly on many occasions that BB10 unit sales fell far, far short of the level required for profitability.
    03-21-17 05:48 PM
  16. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    BlackBerry is a public company. Even they admitted publicly on many occasions that BB10 unit sales fell far, far short of the level required for profitability.
    Is that really what they said, or just a mistaken interpretation thereof? If accurate, how did they arrive at this conclusion? Were they talking about making the company as a whole profitable, or just BB10 devices? Do you have something to back up this assertion? Since you claim the existence of direct quotes, perhaps you can provide them. Or perhaps not.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 05:53 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Is that really what they said, or just a mistaken interpretation thereof? If accurate, how did they arrive at this conclusion? Were they talking about making the company as a whole profitable, or just BB10 devices? Do you have something to back up this assertion? Since you claim the existence of direct quotes, perhaps you can provide them. Or perhaps not.

    Posted via CB10
    Financial Post, June 22 2016:

    BlackBerry Ltd. isn’t ditching handsets just yet, with its top objective for 2017 to return its struggling device business to profitability, CEO John Chen told shareholders Wednesday.

    “The device business must be profitable, we don’t want to run a business that drags on the bottom line,” Chen said at the company’s annual general meeting in Waterloo, Ont., held the day before the company releases its fiscal 2017 first quarter results.

    “It’s time for us to get to the profitability … we’ve got to get there this year.”

    From Code Mobile in October 2015:

    In an interview at the Code Mobile conference today, CEO John Chen told*The Verge*that his goal is to sell five million smartphones a year, which will be necessary to make the business profitable. If that doesn't happen, Chen hinted that BlackBerry may exit the handset business altogether, which would be a huge shift from the BlackBerry of the past.

    Crackberry (June 2014):

    http://crackberry.com/says-blackberr...fitable-phones

    -----

    I could keep going forever.
    03-21-17 06:01 PM
  18. gallopiton's Avatar
    Calm down, you are going to have a heart attack if you keep getting this upset... and to be honest, I don't have to deal with anything... I can't care less if you understand my point or want to think that I am the one making fool of myself... at the end, link or not link, BB10 isn't profitable... kind of silly argument the whole thing... have a nice day!

    For gods sake how many times? Evidence to back up the challenge is not required. That's the principle of burden of proof. Is your grasp of the fundamentals of proper reasoning really this poor?

    You claim it's a fact. I ask for evidence. You have none. End of story. Deal with it.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 06:04 PM
  19. markmall's Avatar
    What would all the write downs suggest? What would the move to Android suggest?
    What does the move to get completely out of hardware suggest?

    It all points to bb10 and their in house android handsets not being a profitable venture for BlackBerry.
    The original contention was that every single one of the BB10 handsets did not make a profit. Some of us are simply pointing out that no one can prove that or know that so people should not make the claim.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 06:08 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    The original contention was that every single one of the BB10 handsets did not make a profit. Some of us are simply pointing out that no one can prove that or know that so people should not make the claim.

    Posted via CB10
    The delineation itself is nonsensical.

    BlackBerry built a proprietary OS at a cost of many billions of dollars, and produced a handful of devices to support it. To say that one made money and another didn't is just a silly shell game of misallocating overhead costs.
    03-21-17 06:12 PM
  21. ryder55's Avatar
    The original contention was that every single one of the BB10 handsets did not make a profit. Some of us are simply pointing out that no one can prove that or know that so people should not make the claim.

    Posted via CB10
    Exactly. We don't know the exact numbers, but we know that at the time, t he passport was singlehandedly driving profit margins for blackberry.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...mid-turnaround

    We do not have numbers for the dteks, but I'm positive that android cannot have the desired effect blackberry hopes it to have and is a failed strategy.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 06:15 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    Exactly. We don't know the exact numbers, but we know that at the time, t he passport was singlehandedly driving profit margins for blackberry.
    Omg, a slight gross profit on a low volume device still translates to spectacular losses for the device division.
    ScoopTheBowler likes this.
    03-21-17 06:32 PM
  23. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Already answered: because they believed there to be greater profits to be had with Android. It does not follow that no BB10 device was profitable. Non sequitur.

    Posted via CB10
    In this scenario, knowing that they had zero guarantees of success and could no longer make any phones that used the runtime or update the runtime on their existing phones, you're saying that BlackBerry gave up the profits of BB10 and left the customers that use the phones in the dust for a CHANCE at success with android?

    That logic doesn't compute.
    03-21-17 07:11 PM
  24. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Omg, a slight gross profit on a low volume device still translates to spectacular losses for the device division.
    I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. You have to be feeling the same way at this point.
    anon(2313227) likes this.
    03-21-17 07:14 PM
  25. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Exactly. We don't know the exact numbers, but we know that at the time, t he passport was singlehandedly driving profit margins for blackberry.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...mid-turnaround

    We do not have numbers for the dteks, but I'm positive that android cannot have the desired effect blackberry hopes it to have and is a failed strategy.

    Posted via CB10
    I will sell you my Passport for 600 dollars right now if you feel that's what it's worth.
    03-21-17 07:16 PM
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