04-01-17 08:01 AM
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  1. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Provided it has a full breakdown of costs and revenues for the entirety of the period from the beginning of BB10 development to present, that would suffice, yes. Then we'd have something on which to base an assessment of whether any BB10 devices made a profit or not, as opposed to speculation and circular reasoning.

    Posted via CB10
    Let me guess, you were let go from BlackBerry. I should have guessed. Sorry for your job loss. Good luck with your independent contractor BB10 app developer business..
    03-21-17 02:26 PM
  2. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    Better yet, a link to announcement of layoffs of all the BlackBerry developers? Better yet, a link to announcement of the BB10 updates being delayed for the umpteenth time? How about the updates for Android every month but 10.3.3 has been pulled for glitches and the five(5) guys that are left on the BB10 team are now busy running their hamburger business...
    No, none of that would be better. It would in fact be useless, since it would shed no light on the question of whether any BB10 devices made a profit or not.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 02:31 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    Q3 2014, alone, saw a $1.6 billion dollar write off on unsold BB10 inventory and parts commitments.
    03-21-17 02:33 PM
  4. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    Let me guess, you were let go from BlackBerry. I should have guessed. Sorry for your job loss. Good luck with your independent contractor BB10 app developer business..
    Wrong. I shall assume from your attempts at distraction from the issue that you do not have the data needed to resolve the question and therefore are indeed engaged in nothing more than pure speculation and circular reasoning.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 02:33 PM
  5. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Wrong. I shall assume from your attempts at distraction from the issue that you do not have the data needed to resolve the question and therefore are indeed engaged in nothing more than pure speculation and circular reasoning.

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry never released information by device. How would you want us to gather that information?

    What the data does show is complete write offs on inventory. The last quarter they just wrote down another $42 million on assets held for sale.

    Here is where the inference that leads to your so called circular reasoning. If BlackBerry never released data per phone, keeps writing down and devaluing their own assets because they can't sell them, tries to release their own android branded phone and fails, then just licenses their name for phones, what does that tell you about BB10 and their device business as a whole?
    03-21-17 03:08 PM
  6. krazyatom's Avatar
    I guess it's better than nothing but Keyone is not a BlackBerry in my heart
    ratfinkstooley likes this.
    03-21-17 03:13 PM
  7. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    BlackBerry never released information by device. How would you want us to gather that information?

    What the data does show is complete write offs on inventory. The last quarter they just wrote down another $42 million on assets held for sale.

    Here is where the inference that leads to your so called circular reasoning. If BlackBerry never released data per phone, keeps writing down and devaluing their own assets because they can't sell them, tries to release their own android branded phone and fails, then just licenses their name for phones, what does that tell you about BB10 and their device business as a whole?
    The question you all keep avoiding now that you're being pinned down on an oft-repeated but completely unsupported assertion, is what does it tell you about whether any BB10 device was profitable or not. The answer is, of course, nothing.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 03:15 PM
  8. markmall's Avatar
    What possible evidence do you have for the profitability of any BB10 device? The staggering losses throughout the whole program are extremely well documented.
    You are the one who made the original contention without any basis. How could you prove that the Jakarta was unprofitable? And you can't amortize what you think it cost to develop the OS over all the phones. I'm not talking sunk costs. You don't include those when you are looking prospectively. I think that is your mistake.


    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 03:25 PM
  9. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    The question you all keep avoiding now that you're being pinned down on an oft-repeated but completely unsupported assertion, is what does it tell you about whether any BB10 device was profitable or not. The answer is, of course, nothing.

    Posted via CB10
    In all reality, if BB10 was profitable, why would BlackBerry decide to make android phones?

    You would never just come to a full stop on a profitable business.
    03-21-17 03:30 PM
  10. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    You are the one who made the original contention without any basis. How could you prove that the Jakarta was unprofitable? And you can't amortize what you think it cost to develop the OS over all the phones. I'm not talking sunk costs. You don't include those when you are looking prospectively. I think that is your mistake.


    Posted via CB10
    What would all the write downs suggest? What would the move to Android suggest?
    What does the move to get completely out of hardware suggest?

    It all points to bb10 and their in house android handsets not being a profitable venture for BlackBerry.
    03-21-17 03:32 PM
  11. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    In all reality, if BB10 was profitable, why would BlackBerry decide to make android phones?

    You would never just come to a full stop on a profitable business.
    Already answered: because they believed there to be greater profits to be had with Android. It does not follow that no BB10 device was profitable. Non sequitur.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 03:44 PM
  12. Huussi's Avatar
    Why do 1/3 of the threads concerning bb10 and the devices running it turn to some kind of hopelessly pointless debate?
    It's over now just let it be dd
    03-21-17 03:46 PM
  13. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    What would all the write downs suggest? What would the move to Android suggest?
    What does the move to get completely out of hardware suggest?

    It all points to bb10 and their in house android handsets not being a profitable venture for BlackBerry.
    No. It points to BlackBerry's belief that there was a greater return on investment to be had elsewhere. It does not demonstrate that all BB10 devices were loss-making. Which is the point.

    Why is this so hard to understand?

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 03:48 PM
  14. ryder55's Avatar
    Id personally write off every BB10 device prior to the passport and Classic. The z10 was good, but brought nothing new to the table relative to the competition, and the OS at the time, still needed a lot of refinements. My love for blackberry 10 started with the passport and I believe whoever designed it got it right. Also, after fully immersing myself in the OS, as an expert android user, I feel satisfied that this OS is marketable and needs just a few improvements to be profitable.

    I do also have an extra beef with sell out blackberrians like crackberry Kev, who bash the passport whenever they get the chance to support blackberrys failing new strategy, the android. sad

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    ratfinkstooley likes this.
    03-21-17 04:03 PM
  15. krazyatom's Avatar
    Id personally write off every BB10 device prior to the passport and Classic. The z10 was good, but brought nothing new to the table relative to the competition, and the OS at the time, still needed a lot of refinements. My love for blackberry 10 started with the passport and I believe whoever designed it got it right. Also, after fully immersing myself in the OS, as an expert android user, I feel satisfied that this OS is marketable and needs just a few improvements to be profitable.

    I do also have an extra beef with sell out blackberrians like crackberry Kev, who bash the passport whenever they get the chance to support blackberrys failing new strategy, the android. sad

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    I know. Old BlackBerry users are bashing bb10 whenever there are new black Droid. So sad people who used to praise BlackBerry...
    03-21-17 04:11 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    I know. Old BlackBerry users are bashing bb10 whenever there are new black Droid. So sad people who used to praise BlackBerry...
    I like BlackBerry. I like what they've done with Android. I liked BB10 in its time too. As I did BBOS before it.
    krazyatom likes this.
    03-21-17 04:26 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    You are the one who made the original contention without any basis. How could you prove that the Jakarta was unprofitable? And you can't amortize what you think it cost to develop the OS over all the phones. I'm not talking sunk costs. You don't include those when you are looking prospectively. I think that is your mistake.


    Posted via CB10
    ANY basis?! Really?

    The gross revenue on a single device has no meaning if you refuse to include ongoing development and support, physical plant, distribution networks, sales and marketing, etc, etc.

    If I go out and get Foxconn to build 100 WebOS devices for $5000 each, and manage to sell them all for $5200 without any future support, warranty, or work on my part, did the device make a profit? I suppose it did, but it's meaningless silliness.
    03-21-17 04:32 PM
  18. gallopiton's Avatar
    This is plain silly... you have a company that developed from the ground an OS... that company had very poor quarters after quarters performances... that company now goes to a different OS... and you want to say that if you don't post a link you cannot state that the devices running the company's OS weren't profitable, and that it's posible that they were but decided to go to a different platform because x reason... you don't have any proof but without a link you can say black but I cannot say white... human beings...

    None whatsoever. I never said they were profitable; I merely pointed out that those claiming they were not profitable had no evidence. Google "burden of proof."

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 04:37 PM
  19. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    This is plain silly... you have a company that developed from the ground an OS... that company had very poor quarters after quarters performances... that company now goes to a different OS... and you want to say that if you don't post a link you cannot state that the devices running the company's OS weren't profitable, and that it's posible that they were but decided to go to a different platform because x reason... you don't have any proof but without a link you can say black but I cannot say white... human beings...
    I didn't make an assertion. I merely challenged someone else to back up theirs and pointed out an alternative possibility. I don't need to provide proof of anything. That's how logic works. Google "burden of proof."

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 04:42 PM
  20. gallopiton's Avatar
    I see... well play I guess? Silly from top to bottom... BTW I heard that you stole some money... sorry no link but you know, internet...

    I didn't make an assertion. I merely challenged someone else to back up theirs and pointed out an alternative possibility. I don't need to provide proof of anything. That's how logic works. Google "burden of proof."

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 04:45 PM
  21. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    I see... well play I guess? Silly from top to bottom... BTW I heard that you stole some money... sorry no link but you know, internet...
    Smh. Extraordinary.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 04:48 PM
  22. ryder55's Avatar
    ANY basis?! Really?

    The gross revenue on a single device has no meaning if you refuse to include ongoing development and support, physical plant, distribution networks, sales and marketing, etc, etc.

    If I go out and get Foxconn to build 100 WebOS devices for $5000 each, and manage to sell them all for $5200 without any future support, warranty, or work on my part, did the device make a profit? I suppose it did, but it's meaningless silliness.
    Ongoing development and support? Hahahahaha wow. Take for example android- as you clearly know, most android devices are used AS IS, and the cost of the next software update tied into the next upgrade cycle which is especially true for Apple products. Are you talking about the 19th century?

    This is why I've been mentioning that with each upgrade cycle, Google has been expanding its reach on users data to mitigate cost which is why android users should worry.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 04:53 PM
  23. gallopiton's Avatar
    Why? You didn't like the logic behind? If you want you can refute my claim that I heard that you stole some money but of course, even when I didn't provide any link, you have to provide one for me to believe it...

    Smh. Extraordinary.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 04:55 PM
  24. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    Why? You didn't like the logic behind? If you want you can refute my claim that I heard that you stole some money but of course, even when I didn't provide any link, you have to provide one for me to believe it...
    You've got it backwards again. Why don't you leave the logic to those of us who understand how to use it?

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 04:57 PM
  25. krazyatom's Avatar
    As a passport user, I will buy a keyone but it will be my last attempt for BlackBerry android. I didn't like dtek series because I already had better android devices. I don't hate android at all but BlackBerry 10 was my favorite. I already know how keyone will perform so obviously my expectations are not very high.
    03-21-17 05:00 PM
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