04-01-17 09:01 AM
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  1. sorinv's Avatar
    What do you mean we have different ideas of what it means to be profitable???? Profit is simple math. If the phone didn't generate more than it cost to make it didn't generate profit. If BB10 was a profitable venture for BlackBerry, it would still be in active development today.

    Developmental cost can't be written off as the OS has to constantly change. You can't just leave an OS as is and expect it to survive.


     Classically Posted SQC100-4/10.3.2.2876 
    But it was! Right before Chen came.
    The point was that there was hardly any bb10 OS development cost by the time the passport and the classic came out. At that point, it was cheaper to continue with bb10 phones and let the sales die off gradually, as they did, while profiting from the sales, instead of wasting development cost on BlackBerry android while still investing in Googleberry hardware.

    The profits from the Passport sales and BIS revenue kept Chen's software transition plan alive for three more years.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by sorinv; 03-22-17 at 10:23 PM.
    03-20-17 08:50 PM
  2. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Wrong! Tell your boss at TCL I said that.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    You have to chill out with all the bashing of people stating their opinion. It's your OPINION that people are wrong.

    Be easy.
    03-20-17 09:01 PM
  3. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    But it was! Right before Chen came.
    The point was that there was hardly any bb10 OS development cost by the time the passport and the classic came out. At that point, it was cheaper to continue with bb10 phones and let the sales die off gradually, as they did, while profiting from the sales, instead of wasting development cost on BlackBerry android while still investing in Googleberry hardware.

    The profits from the Passport sales and BIS revenue kept Chen's software translation plan alive for three more years.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't know how many times people have to say this, but there was no profit from any bb10 phone. If there was, the pivot to android wouldn't have happened.

    The cost to keep making phones was more than the money coming in. BB10 was never generating the cash necessary for it to continue.

    It can't be cheaper to continue when money walks out the door and never comes back. That's a sure fire way to completely out of business.
    deremi likes this.
    03-20-17 09:06 PM
  4. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Being both PP and Priv user I would say the KEYone is a good solution. The PP keyboard is great but it has only three row. The Priv is not as tactile and flat. The KEYone hopefully typed like the 9900.
    The K1 is a good solution IMO as well. The Passport keyboard, while awesome, is a hindrance sometimes. I feel like I type better on the Classic than I do on the Passport.

    I love that they are bringing the Touch enabled keyboard to a classic style keyboard. I'm actually getting more excited about it the more I talk about it and the more I read about it.
    deremi likes this.
    03-20-17 09:09 PM
  5. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    there was no profit from any bb10 phone. If there was, the pivot to android wouldn't have happened.
    There's a logical fallacy going on here - circular reasoning.

    To paraphrase - BB switched to Android because BB10 devices were making a loss and we know BB10 devices were making a loss because BB switched to Android.

    It also assumes that BB were only reacting to the situation at the time, not strategising for the (then) future. For all we know, even if BB10 devices had been profitable, BB may still have opted to switch to Android believing there to be greater profits to be made by doing so.

    Without a breakdown of figures from BB, which as far as I'm aware none of us are party to, there's no way to know whether any BB10 devices were profitable or not.

    Posted via CB10
    03-20-17 09:56 PM
  6. ryder55's Avatar
    There's a logical fallacy going on here - circular reasoning.

    To paraphrase - BB switched to Android because BB10 devices were making a loss and we know BB10 devices were making a loss because BB switched to Android.

    It also assumes that BB were only reacting to the situation at the time, not strategising for the (then) future. For all we know, even if BB10 devices had been profitable, BB may still have opted to switch to Android believing there to be greater profits to be made by doing so.

    Without a breakdown of figures from BB, which as far as I'm aware none of us are party to, there's no way to know whether any BB10 devices were profitable or not.

    Posted via CB10
    Thank you. I've been trying to explain this to these guys all month. It might have seemed easier to abandon their commitment to developing their own OS and all they were doing to attract developers, and tap from Googles android.

    And I think whoever made that decision was wrong, and failed to account for the many users who care more about security, privacy, corporation overreach ie Google, than having the latest snapchat app.
    markmall likes this.
    03-20-17 09:59 PM
  7. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    Thank you. I've been trying to explain this to these guys all month. It might have seemed easier to abandon their commitment to developing their own OS and all they were doing to attract developers, and tap from Googles android.

    And I think whoever made that decision was wrong, and failed to account for the many users who care more about security, privacy, corporation overreach ie Google, than having the latest snapchat app.
    Without wrong there can be no right so it must be right to be wrong sometimes.

    Personally I too would be much more interested in the K1 were it not lumbered with the crappest operating system since Windows 3.11. Sadly it seems we're vastly outnumbered by spyware enthusiasts.

    Posted via CB10
    03-20-17 10:17 PM
  8. conite's Avatar

    Without a breakdown of figures from BB, which as far as I'm aware none of us are party to, there's no way to know whether any BB10 devices were profitable or not.

    Posted via CB10
    This has been explicitly clear, from direct quotes from senior executives and investors throughout the life of BB10, and the financial statements.

    BB10 was an unmitigated disaster - beginning to end. The decision to make another attempt with Android was subsequent to the decision to kill BB10.
    deremi likes this.
    03-21-17 12:09 AM
  9. markmall's Avatar
    There's a logical fallacy going on here - circular reasoning.

    To paraphrase - BB switched to Android because BB10 devices were making a loss and we know BB10 devices were making a loss because BB switched to Android.

    It also assumes that BB were only reacting to the situation at the time, not strategising for the (then) future. For all we know, even if BB10 devices had been profitable, BB may still have opted to switch to Android believing there to be greater profits to be made by doing so.

    Without a breakdown of figures from BB, which as far as I'm aware none of us are party to, there's no way to know whether any BB10 devices were profitable or not.

    Posted via CB10
    Thank you. People here keep shrieking the same narrative over and over like hysterics. The more they listen to themselves, the more convinced they are that their opinions are fact.
    03-21-17 02:27 AM
  10. markmall's Avatar
    Thank you. I've been trying to explain this to these guys all month. It might have seemed easier to abandon their commitment to developing their own OS and all they were doing to attract developers, and tap from Googles android.

    And I think whoever made that decision was wrong, and failed to account for the many users who care more about security, privacy, corporation overreach ie Google, than having the latest snapchat app.
    Are you suggesting that John Chen does not have good marketing instincts?

    Agree though. It was easier in the short term, but Chen neutered the company. Now it sells run of the mill logistics software for trucks. Oh, boy! It's an embarrassment.
    03-21-17 02:30 AM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    If BB10 had generated ANY positive cash flow, they would have built a upon it to increase that positive cash flow. It created and increased negative cash flow because it moved people from BIS platform monthly revenue to carrier based data plans. This doesn't even begin to include hardware losses... It accelerated the downward spiral at greater than anticipated rate and is a huge reason why no one wanted to buy the company. That's when Prem converted his offer to buy the company to offering a loan if BlackBerry agreed to hire Chen.

    Look, if you're going to really think you could do better, then break out the checkbook and buy the company. If that's not an option, than consider this, having the money in the checkbook, means you have business skills to run a successful company. At this point, try running your own business, with your own money, no matter how small, with both a positive cash flow and eventually a profit.

    Posted via CB10
    deremi likes this.
    03-21-17 07:54 AM
  12. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    Repeating a logical fallacy doesn't make it any less fallacious.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 09:08 AM
  13. conite's Avatar
    Repeating a logical fallacy doesn't make it any less fallacious.

    Posted via CB10
    Tweaking and developing apps for an established operating system is far, far, far less expensive than continuing to develop and support a proprietary OS. They are not the same thing. It was a last-ditch effort to stay in the device business.

    Number of companies that at least have some faith in and optimism for Blackberry Android going forward: 3

    Number of companies that have faith in BB10: 0
    03-21-17 09:33 AM
  14. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    Tweaking and developing apps for an established operating system is far, far, far less expensive than continuing to develop and support a proprietary OS. They are not the same thing. It was a last-ditch effort to stay in the device business.

    Number of companies that at least have some faith in and optimism for Blackberry Android going forward: 3

    Number of companies that have faith in BB10: 0
    You seem to have missed the point. Nobody's disputing the relative cost of the two approaches. As stated earlier, BB evidently believed there was more profit to be made with Android. This however does not equate to "no BB10 device made a profit," which is the point of contention.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 10:56 AM
  15. conite's Avatar
    You seem to have missed the point. Nobody's disputing the relative cost of the two approaches. As stated earlier, BB evidently believed there was more profit to be made with Android. This however does not equate to "no BB10 device made a profit," which is the point of contention.

    Posted via CB10
    What possible evidence do you have for the profitability of any BB10 device? The staggering losses throughout the whole program are extremely well documented.
    03-21-17 12:14 PM
  16. thurask's Avatar
    What possible evidence do you have for the profitability of any BB10 device? The staggering losses throughout the whole program are extremely well documented.
    Feelings over facts!
    03-21-17 12:17 PM
  17. xpxpxpxp's Avatar
    Tweaking and developing apps for an established operating system is far, far, far less expensive than continuing to develop and support a proprietary OS. They are not the same thing. It was a last-ditch effort to stay in the device business.

    Number of companies that at least have some faith in and optimism for Blackberry Android going forward: 3

    Number of companies that have faith in BB10: 0
    I can't debunk anything you said but it makes me sad. I love BB10 and the passport keyboard is so great! We need Google Hangouts for work, we do conferencing on it and so I bought a Priv too and I feel like carrying two phones, which is annoying. Damn I miss the passport being my daily phone and I miss BB10. It's just not feasible to use only BB10 in 2017 for many people, unfortunately.
    03-21-17 12:48 PM
  18. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    What possible evidence do you have for the profitability of any BB10 device? The staggering losses throughout the whole program are extremely well documented.
    None whatsoever. I never said they were profitable; I merely pointed out that those claiming they were not profitable had no evidence. Google "burden of proof."

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 01:00 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    None whatsoever. I never said they were profitable; I merely pointed out that those claiming they were not profitable had no evidence. Google "burden of proof."

    Posted via CB10
    Have you looked at any BlackBerry financial statements in the last 4 years?
    03-21-17 01:19 PM
  20. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    Have you looked at any BlackBerry financial statements in the last 4 years?
    If you think you have one that proves your point, post a link to it.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 01:22 PM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    If you think you have one that proves your point, post a link to it.

    Posted via CB10
    Seriously? BlackBerry has lost money since rollout of BB10. They've publicly announced that every quarter. What did you think was generating the losses? BBM stickers?
    03-21-17 03:13 PM
  22. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    Seriously? BlackBerry has lost money since rollout of BB10. They've publicly announced that every quarter. What did you think was generating the losses? BBM stickers?
    Is that an admission that you don't?

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 03:14 PM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Is that an admission that you don't?

    Posted via CB10
    What are asking for? A link to their quarterly financials?
    03-21-17 03:15 PM
  24. anon(10190830)'s Avatar
    What are asking for? A link to their quarterly financials?
    Provided it has a full breakdown of costs and revenues for the entirety of the period from the beginning of BB10 development to present, that would suffice, yes. Then we'd have something on which to base an assessment of whether any BB10 devices made a profit or not, as opposed to speculation and circular reasoning.

    Posted via CB10
    03-21-17 03:20 PM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Is that an admission that you don't?

    Posted via CB10
    Better yet, a link to announcement of layoffs of all the BlackBerry developers? Better yet, a link to announcement of the BB10 updates being delayed for the umpteenth time? How about the updates for Android every month but 10.3.3 has been pulled for glitches and the five(5) guys that are left on the BB10 team are now busy running their hamburger business...
    03-21-17 03:23 PM
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