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But it was! Right before Chen came.What do you mean we have different ideas of what it means to be profitable???? Profit is simple math. If the phone didn't generate more than it cost to make it didn't generate profit. If BB10 was a profitable venture for BlackBerry, it would still be in active development today.
Developmental cost can't be written off as the OS has to constantly change. You can't just leave an OS as is and expect it to survive.
Classically Posted SQC100-4/10.3.2.2876
The point was that there was hardly any bb10 OS development cost by the time the passport and the classic came out. At that point, it was cheaper to continue with bb10 phones and let the sales die off gradually, as they did, while profiting from the sales, instead of wasting development cost on BlackBerry android while still investing in Googleberry hardware.
The profits from the Passport sales and BIS revenue kept Chen's software transition plan alive for three more years.
Posted via CB10Last edited by sorinv; 03-22-17 at 09:23 PM.
03-20-17 07:50 PMLike 0 -
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I don't know how many times people have to say this, but there was no profit from any bb10 phone. If there was, the pivot to android wouldn't have happened.But it was! Right before Chen came.
The point was that there was hardly any bb10 OS development cost by the time the passport and the classic came out. At that point, it was cheaper to continue with bb10 phones and let the sales die off gradually, as they did, while profiting from the sales, instead of wasting development cost on BlackBerry android while still investing in Googleberry hardware.
The profits from the Passport sales and BIS revenue kept Chen's software translation plan alive for three more years.
Posted via CB10
The cost to keep making phones was more than the money coming in. BB10 was never generating the cash necessary for it to continue.
It can't be cheaper to continue when money walks out the door and never comes back. That's a sure fire way to completely out of business.anon(2313227) likes this.03-20-17 08:06 PMLike 1 -
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The K1 is a good solution IMO as well. The Passport keyboard, while awesome, is a hindrance sometimes. I feel like I type better on the Classic than I do on the Passport.
I love that they are bringing the Touch enabled keyboard to a classic style keyboard. I'm actually getting more excited about it the more I talk about it and the more I read about it.anon(2313227) likes this.03-20-17 08:09 PMLike 1 -
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There's a logical fallacy going on here - circular reasoning.
To paraphrase - BB switched to Android because BB10 devices were making a loss and we know BB10 devices were making a loss because BB switched to Android.
It also assumes that BB were only reacting to the situation at the time, not strategising for the (then) future. For all we know, even if BB10 devices had been profitable, BB may still have opted to switch to Android believing there to be greater profits to be made by doing so.
Without a breakdown of figures from BB, which as far as I'm aware none of us are party to, there's no way to know whether any BB10 devices were profitable or not.
Posted via CB1003-20-17 08:56 PMLike 0 -
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Thank you. I've been trying to explain this to these guys all month. It might have seemed easier to abandon their commitment to developing their own OS and all they were doing to attract developers, and tap from Googles android.There's a logical fallacy going on here - circular reasoning.
To paraphrase - BB switched to Android because BB10 devices were making a loss and we know BB10 devices were making a loss because BB switched to Android.
It also assumes that BB were only reacting to the situation at the time, not strategising for the (then) future. For all we know, even if BB10 devices had been profitable, BB may still have opted to switch to Android believing there to be greater profits to be made by doing so.
Without a breakdown of figures from BB, which as far as I'm aware none of us are party to, there's no way to know whether any BB10 devices were profitable or not.
Posted via CB10
And I think whoever made that decision was wrong, and failed to account for the many users who care more about security, privacy, corporation overreach ie Google, than having the latest snapchat app.03-20-17 08:59 PMLike 0 -
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Without wrong there can be no right so it must be right to be wrong sometimes.Thank you. I've been trying to explain this to these guys all month. It might have seemed easier to abandon their commitment to developing their own OS and all they were doing to attract developers, and tap from Googles android.
And I think whoever made that decision was wrong, and failed to account for the many users who care more about security, privacy, corporation overreach ie Google, than having the latest snapchat app.
Personally I too would be much more interested in the K1 were it not lumbered with the crappest operating system since Windows 3.11. Sadly it seems we're vastly outnumbered by spyware enthusiasts.
Posted via CB1003-20-17 09:17 PMLike 0 -
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This has been explicitly clear, from direct quotes from senior executives and investors throughout the life of BB10, and the financial statements.
BB10 was an unmitigated disaster - beginning to end. The decision to make another attempt with Android was subsequent to the decision to kill BB10.anon(2313227) likes this.03-20-17 11:09 PMLike 1 -
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Thank you. People here keep shrieking the same narrative over and over like hysterics. The more they listen to themselves, the more convinced they are that their opinions are fact.There's a logical fallacy going on here - circular reasoning.
To paraphrase - BB switched to Android because BB10 devices were making a loss and we know BB10 devices were making a loss because BB switched to Android.
It also assumes that BB were only reacting to the situation at the time, not strategising for the (then) future. For all we know, even if BB10 devices had been profitable, BB may still have opted to switch to Android believing there to be greater profits to be made by doing so.
Without a breakdown of figures from BB, which as far as I'm aware none of us are party to, there's no way to know whether any BB10 devices were profitable or not.
Posted via CB1003-21-17 01:27 AMLike 0 -
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Are you suggesting that John Chen does not have good marketing instincts?Thank you. I've been trying to explain this to these guys all month. It might have seemed easier to abandon their commitment to developing their own OS and all they were doing to attract developers, and tap from Googles android.
And I think whoever made that decision was wrong, and failed to account for the many users who care more about security, privacy, corporation overreach ie Google, than having the latest snapchat app.
Agree though. It was easier in the short term, but Chen neutered the company. Now it sells run of the mill logistics software for trucks. Oh, boy! It's an embarrassment.03-21-17 01:30 AMLike 0 -
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If BB10 had generated ANY positive cash flow, they would have built a upon it to increase that positive cash flow. It created and increased negative cash flow because it moved people from BIS platform monthly revenue to carrier based data plans. This doesn't even begin to include hardware losses... It accelerated the downward spiral at greater than anticipated rate and is a huge reason why no one wanted to buy the company. That's when Prem converted his offer to buy the company to offering a loan if BlackBerry agreed to hire Chen.
Look, if you're going to really think you could do better, then break out the checkbook and buy the company. If that's not an option, than consider this, having the money in the checkbook, means you have business skills to run a successful company. At this point, try running your own business, with your own money, no matter how small, with both a positive cash flow and eventually a profit.
Posted via CB10anon(2313227) likes this.03-21-17 06:54 AMLike 1 -
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Tweaking and developing apps for an established operating system is far, far, far less expensive than continuing to develop and support a proprietary OS. They are not the same thing. It was a last-ditch effort to stay in the device business.
Number of companies that at least have some faith in and optimism for Blackberry Android going forward: 3
Number of companies that have faith in BB10: 003-21-17 08:33 AMLike 0 -
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You seem to have missed the point. Nobody's disputing the relative cost of the two approaches. As stated earlier, BB evidently believed there was more profit to be made with Android. This however does not equate to "no BB10 device made a profit," which is the point of contention.Tweaking and developing apps for an established operating system is far, far, far less expensive than continuing to develop and support a proprietary OS. They are not the same thing. It was a last-ditch effort to stay in the device business.
Number of companies that at least have some faith in and optimism for Blackberry Android going forward: 3
Number of companies that have faith in BB10: 0
Posted via CB1003-21-17 09:56 AMLike 0 -
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What possible evidence do you have for the profitability of any BB10 device? The staggering losses throughout the whole program are extremely well documented.You seem to have missed the point. Nobody's disputing the relative cost of the two approaches. As stated earlier, BB evidently believed there was more profit to be made with Android. This however does not equate to "no BB10 device made a profit," which is the point of contention.
Posted via CB1003-21-17 11:14 AMLike 0 -
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I can't debunk anything you said but it makes me sad. I love BB10 and the passport keyboard is so great! We need Google Hangouts for work, we do conferencing on it and so I bought a Priv too and I feel like carrying two phones, which is annoying. Damn I miss the passport being my daily phone and I miss BB10. It's just not feasible to use only BB10 in 2017 for many people, unfortunately.Tweaking and developing apps for an established operating system is far, far, far less expensive than continuing to develop and support a proprietary OS. They are not the same thing. It was a last-ditch effort to stay in the device business.
Number of companies that at least have some faith in and optimism for Blackberry Android going forward: 3
Number of companies that have faith in BB10: 003-21-17 11:48 AMLike 0 -
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None whatsoever. I never said they were profitable; I merely pointed out that those claiming they were not profitable had no evidence. Google "burden of proof."
Posted via CB1003-21-17 12:00 PMLike 0 -
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Provided it has a full breakdown of costs and revenues for the entirety of the period from the beginning of BB10 development to present, that would suffice, yes. Then we'd have something on which to base an assessment of whether any BB10 devices made a profit or not, as opposed to speculation and circular reasoning.
Posted via CB1003-21-17 02:20 PMLike 0 -
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Better yet, a link to announcement of layoffs of all the BlackBerry developers? Better yet, a link to announcement of the BB10 updates being delayed for the umpteenth time? How about the updates for Android every month but 10.3.3 has been pulled for glitches and the five(5) guys that are left on the BB10 team are now busy running their hamburger business...03-21-17 02:23 PMLike 0
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