09-11-19 06:16 PM
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  1. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    The native or Built for BB10 was the initial development phase gold standard designation to reward developers for their effort. The Android ports were some kind of compromise when BB was in desperate need of BB10 ecosystem and port-o-thon contests. I remember some company porting over ridiculous number of Android version apps that were sheer manipulation of the contest.

    Sometime after that and the introduction of the Amazon store apps
    the BBW native distinction went away.

    How would one distinguish native or port at this point?
    Chuck, I think it's important to clarify a point here for those less BB10-knowledgable than you or I. Please forgive the clarification.

    NATIVE apps are those that are built to run on the Blackberry 10 platform natively, using the BB10 OS and without any Android components. That distinction HAS NOT gone away and never will, as it's built into the OS.

    Android ports have been available since the beginning of BB10, and while Blackberry Limited did indeed run port-o-thons to try and get more apps into Blackberry World (quality apps, at that) the capability to do Android ports was never an "add-on" or similar to BB10.

    Built For Blackberry apps are those native apps that met a certification process by Blackberry Limited for particular fluidity and smoothness. That designation has indeed gone away, but it's entirely different than saying native apps have gone away.

    As for distinguishing, it's pretty straightforward in BBW--just check the screenshots for the apps. If they are Android-based screenshots (or otherwise don't have BB10 icons at the top of the screen, for those who don't know the Android OS) they are ports. If they do not, they are native apps.
    09-10-19 06:26 PM
  2. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Chuck, I think it's important to clarify a point here for those less BB10-knowledgable than you or I. Please forgive the clarification.

    NATIVE apps are those that are built to run on the Blackberry 10 platform natively, using the BB10 OS and without any Android components. That distinction HAS NOT gone away and never will, as it's built into the OS.

    Android ports have been available since the beginning of BB10, and while Blackberry Limited did indeed run port-o-thons to try and get more apps into Blackberry World (quality apps, at that) the capability to do Android ports was never an "add-on" or similar to BB10.

    Built For Blackberry apps are those native apps that met a certification process by Blackberry Limited for particular fluidity and smoothness. That designation has indeed gone away, but it's entirely different than saying native apps have gone away.

    As for distinguishing, it's pretty straightforward in BBW--just check the screenshots for the apps. If they are Android-based screenshots (or otherwise don't have BB10 icons at the top of the screen, for those who don't know the Android OS) they are ports. If they do not, they are native apps.
    I think my original comment or question wasn’t understood. I was only commenting that BB10 native distinction had disappeared. I was thinking of Built for BB10 and native as one and the same distinction.
    09-10-19 06:31 PM
  3. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    I think my original comment or question wasn’t understood. I was only commenting that BB10 native distinction had disappeared. I was thinking of Built for BB10 and native as one and the same distinction.
    Oh no, that's exactly what I thought you were thinking. That's why I issued the clarification so that people know that native apps have not at all disappeared--it's just the Built for Blackberry designation that is no longer being offered (though many apps that achieved that designation still say so in their descriptions in BBW and if an app mentions it it's usually an indicator of high quality.)
    09-10-19 06:33 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Chuck, I think it's important to clarify a point here for those less BB10-knowledgable than you or I. Please forgive the clarification.

    NATIVE apps are those that are built to run on the Blackberry 10 platform natively, using the BB10 OS and without any Android components. That distinction HAS NOT gone away and never will, as it's built into the OS.

    Android ports have been available since the beginning of BB10, and while Blackberry Limited did indeed run port-o-thons to try and get more apps into Blackberry World (quality apps, at that) the capability to do Android ports was never an "add-on" or similar to BB10.

    Built For Blackberry apps are those native apps that met a certification process by Blackberry Limited for particular fluidity and smoothness. That designation has indeed gone away, but it's entirely different than saying native apps have gone away.

    As for distinguishing, it's pretty straightforward in BBW--just check the screenshots for the apps. If they are Android-based screenshots (or otherwise don't have BB10 icons at the top of the screen, for those who don't know the Android OS) they are ports. If they do not, they are native apps.
    Even native apps aren't necessarily "native".

    The BB10 SDK can also port iOS apps, Air apps, QT apps, and Android apps implemented with C - all without using the Android Runtime.

    Certainly a step up from straight Android ports though.
    09-10-19 06:57 PM
  5. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Even native apps aren't necessarily "native".

    The BB10 SDK can also port iOS apps, Air apps, QT apps, and Android apps implemented with C - all without using the Android Runtime.
    This is simply false. Native apps are indeed "native" to BB10. Ports can be made from sources other than Android certainly, but they're still ports. Native apps developed using Cascades or HTML5 for example however are native to BB10.
    09-10-19 07:00 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    This is simply false. Native apps are indeed "native" to BB10. Ports can be made from sources other than Android certainly, but they're still ports. Native apps developed using Cascades or HTML5 for example however are native to BB10.
    Absolutely you can code natively from the ground up. I'm just saying that a lot of "native" apps don't fit this category.

    Kalemsoft and Neutron Player are two examples - they are both ported Android C++ apps using the BB10 SDK.

    But again, a definite step up from straight Android ports that operate within the Runtime. No doubt.
    09-10-19 07:01 PM
  7. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Absolutely you can code natively from the ground up. I'm just saying that a lot of "native" apps don't fit this category.

    Kalemsoft and Neutron Player are two examples - they are both ported Android C++ apps.
    Ignoring whether or not you're correct about Kalemsoft and Neutron for the moment, it's important to clarify terms for folks who may not be aware of the nuances of BB10. Native apps are those which run natively in Blackberry 10. Android ports typically use the Android runtime to function.

    Are there different kinds of ports? Sure there are. But for the average user, there are two "categories" of apps: native apps (including ports that do not use the Android runtime) and Android apps (which do use the runtime, either through being direct ports or by being actual Android APKs themselves).
    09-10-19 07:05 PM
  8. conite's Avatar
    Ignoring whether or not you're correct about Kalemsoft and Neutron for the moment, it's important to clarify terms for folks who may not be aware of the nuances of BB10. Native apps are those which run natively in Blackberry 10. Android ports typically use the Android runtime to function.

    Are there different kinds of ports? Sure there are. But for the average user, there are two "categories" of apps: native apps (including ports that do not use the Android runtime) and Android apps (which do use the runtime, either through being direct ports or by being actual Android APKs themselves).
    Agreed.

    I'm just giving the "Built for BlackBerry" designation its proper due. It's a big step up from most other native apps.
    howarmat likes this.
    09-10-19 07:06 PM
  9. brookie229's Avatar
    I use the native BB10 app, AppNinja (by Andrei Popleteev) to distinguish the origin/type of apps although there are other ways to see that directly within the app itself. AppNinja has plenty of other info about the apps on the device and is one example of an excellent native BB10 app. I purchased that one years ago but it has recently been released for free by the dev. Highly recommended for those still using BB10 in any way.
    09-10-19 07:10 PM
  10. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    I use the native BB10 app, AppNinja (by Andrei Popleteev) to distinguish the origin/type of apps although there are other ways to see that directly within the app itself. AppNinja has plenty of other info about the apps on the device and is one example of an excellent native BB10 app. I purchased that one years ago but it has recently been released for free by the dev. Highly recommended for those still using BB10 in any way.
    Good thought Brookie! That would answer @Chuck Finley69 on how to distinguish as well. (For anyone wondering how to get this app, you can use BBW or, for the native BAR file, go to this thread:

    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb.../#post13442522

    )
    09-10-19 07:15 PM
  11. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Agreed.

    I'm just giving the "Built for BlackBerry" designation its proper due. It's a big step up from most other native apps.
    Agreed on the "Built for Blackberry" designation.


    conite, this marks the second time I've agreed with you and the first you've agreed with me in the past two days. Is it time to check the weather forecast in Hell?
    conite likes this.
    09-10-19 07:16 PM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Agreed.

    I'm just giving the "Built for BlackBerry" designation its proper due. It's a big step up from most other native apps.
    I learned early on that I was happier only using Built for BlackBerry apps because they were so much better from a UX perspective. What I enjoy most about BB10 is the UX, so the "native" ports that felt like Android apps were less desirable.

    Of course, the fact that I mostly avoid third party apps as much as possible on all platforms has a lot to do with my ability to be so choosy. I freely acknowledge the value of native BB10 apps ported from other OSes.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    09-10-19 07:24 PM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Ignoring whether or not you're correct about Kalemsoft and Neutron for the moment, it's important to clarify terms for folks who may not be aware of the nuances of BB10. Native apps are those which run natively in Blackberry 10. Android ports typically use the Android runtime to function.

    Are there different kinds of ports? Sure there are. But for the average user, there are two "categories" of apps: native apps (including ports that do not use the Android runtime) and Android apps (which do use the runtime, either through being direct ports or by being actual Android APKs themselves).
    Easy TT, you both are educating me and many others with stuff long forgotten. I understand one possibly two levels of nuances and that’s it. This simple exchange reminds me of all the confusion with BB10 at introduction and before the ART solution and the APKs side loading.

    I went straight from BBW to Amazon to sketchy OneMobile store and never side loading... I found native BB10 apps functioned as expected like Android/iOS where apps I used existed.

    I’m asking part nostalgia and part curiosity. While I allude to grave dancing, it’s hard to be helpful when I’ve forgotten more than I remember.

    Carry on......
    09-10-19 07:32 PM
  14. BBlegacy's Avatar
    Easy TT, you both are educating me and many others with stuff long forgotten. I understand one possibly two levels of nuances and that’s it. This simple exchange reminds me of all the confusion with BB10 at introduction and before the ART solution and the APKs side loading.

    I went straight from BBW to Amazon to sketchy OneMobile store and never side loading... I found native BB10 apps functioned as expected like Android/iOS where apps I used existed.

    I’m asking part nostalgia and part curiosity. While I allude to grave dancing, it’s hard to be helpful when I’ve forgotten more than I remember.

    Carry on......
    In addition, a truly "native app" for the Blackberry OS 10 would have been written and optimized from the ground up for the QNX API, closed sourced and proprietary from Blackberry. Though QNX is "derived" from Unix, which I can see uses C++.

    Whereas Android's API is native in Java.

    Of course there are SDK's available in other languages for Android being how popular it is, but their official language is Java.

    --

    I was wondering how Blackberry OS 10 handles Android APK's in their OS. Android authority claims:

    "What’s even more interesting is that in order to fully run Android apps, Blackberry is essentially running the Android OS inside of their QNX-based OS."

    https://www.androidauthority.com/bla...ndroid-340468/

    --

    However, of course, as we see in actual use, not all Android APK's run flawlessly be it for the infinite quirks in implementation, despite Blackberry 10 devices running the same Qualcomm SOC's as Android devices ran in the same time frame... if anyone has done development work before you'd know.

    Not sure if I contributed to the discussion, but in short, for the scope of the topic of "native" vs non-native(written for say Android API, which can run pretty well on Blackberry 10) boiling down to QNX specific(optimized) vs the latter.
    09-11-19 06:03 PM
  15. howarmat's Avatar
    The android runtime is basically AOSP Android. It doesnt have google play or its services and it also does have limited API access. Also remember that the runtime was MUCH better in 2013, its now stuck in time and 6 years behind on updates/security/privacy advancements
    09-11-19 06:16 PM
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