09-01-14 04:46 PM
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  1. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    I know it seems "dirty" to video file guys that these devices are reaching levels never dreamed of before but it is happening.

    With the extreme codecs that are able to render the massive data these new sensors can take in we are in a sort of in a "Moore's law" concept of optics and processing power that seems never ending.
    Trust me, it's happening to professional grade material aswell. The difference is that professional grade material doesn't suffer marketing "blindness" like the megapixel race happens in phones and point and shoot cameras.

    Only a few DSLR cameras can provide 4k video, the ones that didn't have it yet is because they can't provide good quality 4k still. Trust me, 4K recording in phones is bad quality footage, and is unusable for professional work, You can't sell footage from a 4K phone... Image quality is MUCH MORE that outright resolution.

    It might sound confusing, but if you pick a bunch of 1080p recording devices, the detail and resolution will vary between them.

    Check this video... you have 2 different devices shooting at 1080p. The Canon 5D that is highly regarded for video recording, YET, doesn't match a very good 1080p from one of the best 1080p recorders. They both record at the same resolution
    08-29-14 09:31 PM
  2. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    so far every detail we have learned the G3 camera has so none of the features are surprising. i 90% sure its the same
    It will be interesting to see how the same camera will perform with 2 different OS's, especialy in this day and age that images are highly post processed between the sensor shoots and what they end up being showed to the user after processing
    08-29-14 09:33 PM
  3. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    so far every detail we have learned the G3 camera has so none of the features are surprising. i 90% sure its the same
    I wonder if it will have the Laser autofocus assist. I see a lot of useless stuff being fited to smartphone cameras, but the lazer assist seems to work well, and is a great solution for a common problem with smartphones, that tend to take a lot of time to focus, especialy when you're blinding your subject with the led flash waiting to lock on focus

    from the pictures it seems that it wont
    08-29-14 09:43 PM
  4. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    I know it seems "dirty" to video file guys that these devices are reaching levels never dreamed of before but it is happening.

    With the extreme codecs that are able to render the massive data these new sensors can take in we are in a sort of in a "Moore's law" concept of optics and processing power that seems never ending.
    We're confusing two limiting factors here.

    On one hand you have the physical limitations of megapixels density (more specifically, their small size) reaching sizes smaller than visible light wavelengths (at which point it just won't work)... But in reality that is really only being reached for still image capture, and there will be nothing that can be done aside from "super resolution" algorithms that use multiple lower pixel density sensors and stochastic interpolation of detail (basically, really good guessing).

    However 4k video presents an entirely distinct challenge, and that is data processing pipeline limitations. I mean, we've been able to take great high MP still digital images for a while, but with the delay of processing and saving each one. As you see in this thread, 4K video is only being sampled at 30fps, while 1080p can be sampled at 60fps. The amount of data per frame of a 4K video is not even close to that of a single "full resolution 13MP" still (even before you introduce codecs that reduce data further by taking advantage of low inter-frame entropy and motion vector prediction).

    The real reason why 4K is "a waste" in smartphones, is because the thin width of their body only allow for such a small z axis of their optical elements, so you're oversampling an incident image that isn't worth it. I would much rather have 60fps 1080p, with the extra pixels being used to implement excellent image stabilization and deblurring. After all, phones are so small and light, that most videos taken with them are quite shaky and fast panning (unlike heavy cameras).


    Posted via CB10
    Joao Oliveira likes this.
    08-29-14 11:51 PM
  5. nah.uhh's Avatar
    The.. I'd prefer they add 360 & 480p first -_-.. it's hard enough to transfer these massive hd videos, don't need to make it harder. I like the ability to record in super hd.. but I only need hd for maybe 10% of what I record. The other 90% is usually to share the video or to us it as a reminder.
    My 2c
    08-30-14 01:37 AM
  6. dejanh's Avatar
    Useless, utterly useless.

    Posted via CB10
    08-30-14 09:31 AM
  7. dejanh's Avatar
    We're confusing two limiting factors here.

    On one hand you have the physical limitations of megapixels density (more specifically, their small size) reaching sizes smaller than visible light wavelengths (at which point it just won't work)... But in reality that is really only being reached for still image capture, and there will be nothing that can be done aside from "super resolution" algorithms that use multiple lower pixel density sensors and stochastic interpolation of detail (basically, really good guessing).

    However 4k video presents an entirely distinct challenge, and that is data processing pipeline limitations. I mean, we've been able to take great high MP still digital images for a while, but with the delay of processing and saving each one. As you see in this thread, 4K video is only being sampled at 30fps, while 1080p can be sampled at 60fps. The amount of data per frame of a 4K video is not even close to that of a single "full resolution 13MP" still (even before you introduce codecs that reduce data further by taking advantage of low inter-frame entropy and motion vector prediction).

    The real reason why 4K is "a waste" in smartphones, is because the thin width of their body only allow for such a small z axis of their optical elements, so you're oversampling an incident image that isn't worth it. I would much rather have 60fps 1080p, with the extra pixels being used to implement excellent image stabilization and deblurring. After all, phones are so small and light, that most videos taken with them are quite shaky and fast panning (unlike heavy cameras).


    Posted via CB10
    That was very scientific. Good read.

    Posted via CB10
    08-30-14 09:36 AM
  8. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    THis new 4K hype is only a gimmick for the consumer, to give the ilusion that they have somehow professional quality photos or videos on their smartphone, because their Specs are very close or even better than professional gear...

    It's like those guys that think that their 20mp phone is better than a 12MP DSLR... It's that ilusion that their phone is as good or better than professional cameras.

    The same way that phone cameras are in relentless progress, so is the professional equipment, but professionals don't sell out on spec sheets...
    08-30-14 10:07 AM
  9. sunetos's Avatar
    4k is almost certainly a waste to use at this point for 99% of consumers.

    I'm also very glad the Passport will support it, since there's no reason not to keep up with the latest tech to avoid penalties from tech reviewers and support experimentation. I will personally record at 720p for storage space reasons, but I'm glad to see the 4k option in case it's useful to somebody.
    08-30-14 03:37 PM
  10. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    4K is not a gimmick when it becomes the norm in 2 years. I'm sure Passport will last a long time.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    08-30-14 03:42 PM
  11. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    For me it's a gimmick to sell phones like megapixels are.

    Most people won't even get those 4K out of their phones, and if they have intentions of uploading those videos, you better have a very good data plan, because 4K files are huge.

    Not only that, but real 4K definition will only be seen in very bright sunlight, when you don't have very bright light, your 4K will be as sharp as 720p or worse, phone's sensors are too small to cope with low light
    08-30-14 03:58 PM
  12. danp2000's Avatar
    Actually, the most important part of a camera is the glass. The last Canon lens I purchased cost over 2 grand.

    No way a phone camera with glass smaller than a dime and no depth can compare.

    That leads me to a joke.

    Is that a camera lens in your pocket or are you just happy to see me.

    Could you see somebody carying a phone with a foot long 4 inch diameter lens hanging off the back of it?

    Posted via CB10
    08-30-14 04:16 PM
  13. FrankIAm's Avatar
    For me it's a gimmick to sell phones like megapixels are.

    Most people won't even get those 4K out of their phones, and if they have intentions of uploading those videos, you better have a very good data plan, because 4K files are huge.

    Not only that, but real 4K definition will only be seen in very bright sunlight, when you don't have very bright light, your 4K will be as sharp as 720p or worse, phone's sensors are too small to cope with low light
    Alright, let's listen to you and just put specs that suffice.

    There'll be no BlackBerry in near future.

    pin:2B7CAF06
    08-30-14 04:24 PM
  14. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    (Copied from a new thread that was closed

    Is that any good given the fact that ***most*** of us still don't and won't have anything to display that yet or in the near future ... ?

    Extremely high resolution versions of HOW-TO videos, looking forward to that. Let's say you're taking a gadget or a laptop apart, you'd see every single model number and description on every single capacitor on the vid... amazing...

    Hope it does close-ups well, my Q10 sometimes struggles when zooming or focusing...

    Is there a "flower" icon or option like on normal digicams in BB10 yet? I'm all for it!

    What's your opinion...



    ? BlackBerry? I premdict the future's gonna be chenomenal! ?
    08-30-14 04:49 PM
  15. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Actually, the most important part of a camera is the glass. The last Canon lens I purchased cost over 2 grand.

    No way a phone camera with glass smaller than a dime and no depth can compare.

    That leads me to a joke.

    Is that a camera lens in your pocket or are you just happy to see me.

    Could you see somebody carying a phone with a foot long 4 inch diameter lens hanging off the back of it?

    Posted via CB10
    That was my concluding point exactly.

    But I also 100% agree that it has to be included (even if it's seldom used by most), just for its marketing value alone,.. because marketing and logic don't know each other... lol

    Posted via CB10
    FrankIAm likes this.
    08-30-14 05:03 PM
  16. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    (Copied from a new thread that was closed

    Is that any good given the fact that ***most*** of us still don't and won't have anything to display that yet or in the near future ... ?

    Extremely high resolution versions of HOW-TO videos, looking forward to that. Let's say you're taking a gadget or a laptop apart, you'd see every single model number and description on every single capacitor on the vid... amazing...

    Hope it does close-ups well, my Q10 sometimes struggles when zooming or focusing...

    Is there a "flower" icon or option like on normal digicams in BB10 yet? I'm all for it!

    What's your opinion...



    ? BlackBerry? I premdict the future's gonna be chenomenal! ?
    Mmmhhh...

    When will YouTube do 4K... ????

    ? BlackBerry? I premdict the future's gonna be chenomenal! ?
    08-30-14 06:32 PM
  17. danp2000's Avatar
    That was my concluding point exactly.

    But I also 100% agree that it has to be included (even if it's seldom used by most), just for its marketing value alone,.. because marketing and logic don't know each other... lol

    Posted via CB10
    I agree.

    In another thread it was suggested that BlackBerry post people at the iSheep launch line with Passports and show off the features to create more buzz. I think that's a good idea.

    This makes me think of the following which I believe are truths.

    Apple is a marketing company that also makes phones.

    Samsung is a company catering to the masses with the spec wars.

    BlackBerry is a company that makes incredible phones, now, and doesn't market worth a damn.

    However I hope this is changing.

    Posted via CB10
    nah.uhh likes this.
    08-30-14 06:50 PM
  18. Bla1ze's Avatar
    When will YouTube do 4K... ????
    Already does. Problem is the end user. - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...F9E09ECEC8F88F
    08-30-14 07:34 PM
  19. vladi's Avatar
    Well in theory if you downscale 4K to HD you get an HD footage with a lot more details than HD footage shot natively. With crappy codecs used in cellphones who knows if this will applicable or not.
    08-30-14 07:50 PM
  20. Burton79's Avatar
    I find it funny how in different areas of the forums you have people complaining different sides of the BB coin. In one area you have people ******** about inferior specs on devices even if the included ones/proposed included ones are sufficient to run the device smoothly. Now over here we have BB going big on something and people are complaining that its useless and unnecessary. Guess you cant please all the people all the time.
    08-30-14 07:54 PM
  21. Chris S Mellor's Avatar
    Already does. Problem is the end user. - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...F9E09ECEC8F88F
    Same with Netflix too

    Posted via CB10
    08-30-14 07:59 PM
  22. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Alright, let's listen to you and just put specs that suffice.

    There'll be no BlackBerry in near future.

    pin:2B7CAF06
    Do you have anything to say about the specs of the most selling phone one the planet AKA iphone? Dual core? 1GB of ram?

    But yeah, I know what you mean, and I know that uneducated people like to have the specs to brag about to their friends and internet, even when they are completely meaningless...

    I remember when the Iphone 5s came out with rubish specs, and spanked all the multi-cores and multi-GB's of ram of the android panorama, the iphone had better numbers on the benchmarks and was faster in the real world too... Yet people's greed to show off and brag about what they have, seem that it's still all about the stupid specs...

    It's like a lot of people here in the forum complaining that the Passport should have the 801 instead of the 800, when the 801 is just a overclocked 800, and the performance difference is almost negligible

    With so much evidence and information around, I still find strange how the Smartphone comunity can be so catastrophically blind
    Last edited by Joao Oliveira; 08-31-14 at 12:21 PM.
    MeganMegan1982 likes this.
    08-31-14 12:06 PM
  23. JustAnotherBeerbot's Avatar
    yay! photoshopped (or hacked-up QML) 10.2.1 camera menu?
    09-01-14 10:24 AM
  24. MeganMegan1982's Avatar
    yay! photoshopped (or hacked-up QML) 10.2.1 camera menu?
    Y would someone with a passport fake a screen? i assume you aren't familiar with dhabkrik?
    09-01-14 01:59 PM
  25. FrankIAm's Avatar
    Y would someone with a passport fake a screen? i assume you aren't familiar with dhabkrik?
    And haven't read the news on the front page lately

    pin:2B7CAF06
    MeganMegan1982 likes this.
    09-01-14 02:00 PM
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