08-12-15 02:05 PM
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  1. Deckard79's Avatar
    Finally I have an older quite limited light (indoor) comparison from my Passport using 10.3.0. My son was not still (as you'd expect from a three year old).

    Lumia 925:


    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-wp_20141101_12_36_35_pro.jpg

    Passport:


    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-img_20141101_124125.jpg

    My wife and I agree that the Passport generally takes longer to focus but takes a considerably better shot than the Lumia 925 when it does.

    Posted via CB10
    01-22-15 05:55 PM
  2. dejanh's Avatar
    The blur in the balloon pic is the result of Passport camera not focusing. While less common, this is part of the focus issue. It's always slow, and sometimes can't focus at all.

    Posted via CB10
    01-22-15 07:29 PM
  3. buwee's Avatar
    I can recreate a similar looking blurred shot from my phone if I used digital zoom (pinch to zoom) on my camera app. I hope that's not what you did.
    As a hobby photographer, I am amused at the lot of people who know nothing about photography, but go in various device forums to bash on that device's camera.[/QUOTE]


    Nope, no zoom digital or otherwise so sorry, that's not the problem and besides - why do the other phone cameras seem a lot more focused? again with no zoom or alterations of any kind.
    01-22-15 08:04 PM
  4. buwee's Avatar
    Ok, I can replicate this. If I turn the camera about 180 degrees away, then turn it to the subject and immediately take the photo without giving the camera any chance to focus, it comes out blurred. I literally have to snap it the moment I get the subject in shot:


    Attachment 328984

    Thing is though, I can't imagine a real life scenario where that would happen beyond trying to photograph my toddler kid running around in a darkened room. In which case, surely a proper good standalone camera is in order.

    Posted via CB10
    I think the problem with the PP's camera is that when it finally focuses you need to be absolutely still while pressing the shutter button - if you move so much as a hair while pressing the shutter button the picture ends up blurred. When taking these photos I tried to not move on any of the shots while pressing the shutter button. FYI - For each phone I took 3 shots and posted the best of the 3 from each phone here. Now, I am in my 50's so maybe I'm shaking too much LOL but the point is the other phones seemed to have did a lot better. None of the photos are 100% blur free but all except the PP did much better imo.
    01-22-15 08:10 PM
  5. Deckard79's Avatar
    I think the problem with the PP's camera is that when it finally focuses you need to be absolutely still while pressing the shutter button - if you move so much as a hair while pressing the shutter button the picture ends up blurred. When taking these photos I tried to not move on any of the shots while pressing the shutter button. FYI - For each phone I took 3 shots and posted the best of the 3 from each phone here. Now, I am in my 50's so maybe I'm shaking too much LOL but the point is the other phones seemed to have did a lot better. None of the photos are 100% blur free but all except the PP did much better imo.
    Yeah, you can't move while taking the shot. This and the focus sweep speed are part of the same thing, which is a hardware limitation (no auto phase detection on Passport camera).

    This does absolutely make it harder to use and there is no way around that unfortunately. Software updates won't fix it.

    If you can hold pretty still then it'll take a good shot, even with a fair bit of movement from the subject - better than the well-received camera on the Lumia 925.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-15 01:33 AM
  6. bb10_fan's Avatar
    This does absolutely make it harder to use and there is no way around that unfortunately. Software updates won't fix it.
    Posted via CB10
    Let me disagree with you here. I still believe that blur problem is a software issue. As I posted in this thread earlier (or maybe some other similar threads), it seems Passport uses ISO priority mode and constantly tries to lower ISO value to reduce the noise (with its sensor size 3.63x2.72 mm I can understand the choice). To let sensor receive enough light shutter is opened longer and as we know slow shutter = blurred image if any motion occurs. If you increase the ISO value (you'll need 3d party app for that, Camera++ by I&N MobiSoft is the only native app I know that can do it), you'll see shutter increases it's speed too and that in many cases completely solves problem with blurred images. From my experiments with standard camera app I found that Passport doesn't go above 888 for ISO and that's the value used when almost no light is available. For indoor scenes ISO is usually between 200-300 and that's forcing shutter to be opened long enough to get blurred image. I usually increase ISO to 600-800 and my shutter speed goes to 1/50 sec, which can take non-blurred images of a moving kid (I also have small kids ).

    As for focusing issue, it seems as a software issue too. You have probably notices that in video mode focusing is more stable and usually faster. As a beta tester for Camera++ app by I&N MobiSoft I had long email conversations with the developer of the app. He would not openly say that 10.3.0 camera API sucks but I've got the feeling that it's full of bugs. So, let's hope in 10.3.1 things will be improved on software side since hardware cannot be changed
    allsportsfan likes this.
    01-23-15 02:31 AM
  7. bb10_fan's Avatar
    I think the problem with the PP's camera is that when it finally focuses you need to be absolutely still while pressing the shutter button - if you move so much as a hair while pressing the shutter button the picture ends up blurred. When taking these photos I tried to not move on any of the shots while pressing the shutter button. FYI - For each phone I took 3 shots and posted the best of the 3 from each phone here. Now, I am in my 50's so maybe I'm shaking too much LOL but the point is the other phones seemed to have did a lot better. None of the photos are 100% blur free but all except the PP did much better imo.
    You can actually prevent camera from refocusing by tap-and-hold instead of simple tap to focus. This way even if something has moved in the scene or lighting has changed (both events trigger refocusing) you still have your focus at the same distance and picture is not taken while camera tries to refocus. Of course if you have a subject close enough and it moves towards/from you, than this method would give you equally blurred image
    01-23-15 02:35 AM
  8. Deckard79's Avatar
    You can actually prevent camera from refocusing by tap-and-hold instead of simple tap to focus. This way even if something has moved in the scene or lighting has changed (both events trigger refocusing) you still have your focus at the same distance and picture is not taken while camera tries to refocus. Of course if you have a subject close enough and it moves towards/from you, than this method would give you equally blurred image
    I assumed the blur amounted to the same issue as focus performance but reading your post you may have a point.

    But the fact remains that a focus sweep is taking 1-2 seconds depending on lighting conditions whilst cameras with Phase Diff manage this in about 0.5 seconds. I can't see that ever changing.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-15 07:03 AM
  9. bb10_fan's Avatar
    But the fact remains that a focus sweep is taking 1-2 seconds depending on lighting conditions whilst cameras with Phase Diff manage this in about 0.5 seconds. I can't see that ever changing.
    Posted via CB10
    The video focus time is bellow 1 sec usually. And since the focusing is just a contrast based algorithm they may come up with a better algorithm/implementation of it
    allsportsfan likes this.
    01-23-15 07:05 AM
  10. yasikhi's Avatar
    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-img_20150123_103005.png
    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-img_20150120_191058.jpg
    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-img_20150120_191033.jpg
    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-img_20150120_190330.jpg

    Camera is ok. But need to fix focus issue. It works good for me after tweaking in settings.

    ⓟⓐⓢⓢⓟⓞⓡⓣ
    01-23-15 09:32 AM
  11. Vintage123's Avatar
    I can recreate a similar looking blurred shot from my phone if I used digital zoom (pinch to zoom) on my camera app. I hope that's not what you did.
    As a hobby photographer, I am amused at the lot of people who know nothing about photography, but go in various device forums to bash on that device's camera.

    Nope, no zoom digital or otherwise so sorry, that's not the problem and besides - why do the other phone cameras seem a lot more focused? again with no zoom or alterations of any kind.[/QUOTE]

    I agree with the majority that the camera sucks. It really *does* suck & needs improvement, but I'm sorry it does seem like your last pic was on zoom (as the other poster suggested). The phone sucks, yes, but that pic is a bit much, even considering the suck factor.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-15 09:54 AM
  12. weedb0y's Avatar
    Ignorance is bliss eh? The camera focus sucks. It doesn't matter what some of you may believe.

    Posted via CB10
    Yep. I love how the BlackBerry gang loves backing up incompetence. There is no excuse in 2015 for a phone to not have AF issues resolved

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-15 10:11 AM
  13. tfitzpat03's Avatar
    One thing I can say about the PP camera is that it takes waaaaay better close up shots than my z10. I do agree that the autofocus is slow but when it's focused you can get some awesome shots from it. The problem is that it's a bit inconsistent when compared to my z10. I'm not a heave picture taker so I'll take it in stride. Hopefully it will get better on the next OS release.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-15 11:48 AM
  14. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Yep. I love how the BlackBerry gang loves backing up incompetence. There is no excuse in 2015 for a phone to not have AF issues resolved

    Posted via CB10
    We don't "love" incompetence... but it is clearly a software issue... I'm sure they fired whoever was working on the cam software since they had a position up for that specifically.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-15 01:57 PM
  15. Zedd88's Avatar
    Still the bottom line is the camera on this phone is not trusty or dependable. We always don't have time to wait for the camera to focus and that's what makes it bad.

    Most of the attached pictures here are of stills, landscape, people holding their pose, etc. The picture of the low light with curtains, the curtains will not go away no matter how long you take to get that shot. But practical cases of a celphone camera, especially in business use, are instantaneous and no one will hold their pose for you. And that instant could be gone by the time you got your shot. I've already posted before a real life scenario where I lost a shot because it took too long to focus. I was shooting a message that flashed in a machine's console because the shot was blurry. The message only popped in the console for a couple of seconds. Again, I didn't need it to be perfect just that the message was readable.

    In my recent trip to Japan, inside the airport limousine on my way to my flight home, I saw a long line of people queuing in a shop/restaurant. I was holding my Passport then and my Lumia was in my pocket. So I launched the camera of my Passport and was gonna snap a picture of the store's name so that I could research on it later. As a businessman I am always on the lookout for new ideas and that store could be an idea I could bring home. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to snap any picture, by the time it focused the stoplight had turned green and the bus was already moving.

    Although, I already have a mental note in my head to use my Lumia 1020 for snapping quick pics, I still got burned again. Because I am using my Passport as a primary device, when it is in my hands you will tend to use its camera instead of fishing for your other phone or digital camera.

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-15 08:13 PM
  16. weedb0y's Avatar
    Chen, hire better talent. There's no excuse not to have the best software talent in waterloo

    Posted via CB10
    01-23-15 08:31 PM
  17. myboxerssayjoe's Avatar
    Going to try out Camera++ for a bit to see if I can get past the blur, but so far the camera still doesn't want to focus.
    01-23-15 08:58 PM
  18. chobits's Avatar
    It's not the camera quality, it's more the auto focus problem
    SUPER SLOW and miss a lot from the subject
    in low light condition, slight movement won't get the pic done

    So ... it's the AF speed matters the most
    From my own experience ... Xiaomi redmi 1s which cost me $119 can do focusing better than the Passport
    As for xiaomi redmi 1s image quality ... blah
    01-24-15 03:03 AM
  19. bb10_fan's Avatar
    It's not the camera quality, it's more the auto focus problem
    SUPER SLOW and miss a lot from the subject
    in low light condition, slight movement won't get the pic done

    So ... it's the AF speed matters the most
    Let's make a small correction here, it's AF in photo mode that is super slow. In video mode AF is better. And again, use tap and hold to lock the focus instead of simple tap, this way slight movement or changes in lighting won't spoil your shot.

    For those who use Camera++ use Auto mode instead of C-Auto, which makes app to focus only when you tap on screen and not 'follow' subject/refocus each second due to slight move. You can also use manual focus, absolutely great thing in low light conditions. If you want to have video speed of AF use Snapshot mode

    Posted via CB10
    chobits likes this.
    01-24-15 03:13 AM
  20. buwee's Avatar
    Ok, have more time to kill tonight (by now you guys have probably figured out that I have a boring life LOL.
    I took the same pictures of the balloons again with the PP but this time I didn't have to fan blowing on them so they weren't moving and the photo actually looks pretty awesome so the lens and whatever apparatus seems to have what it takes to take a decent picture - just the bad focusing issue which hopefully can be fixed although @Deckard doesn't feel like it can me - hopefully he's incorrect.

    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-pp-2.jpg
    01-24-15 04:05 AM
  21. Desert888's Avatar
    I think this is also related to the OS 10.3. My Q10 focus quicker and took better photos while i was on 10.2.1.8 but after I upgraded to 10.3.1.2072, it turns out to be way slower to focus and just like my Passport.

    Posted via CB10
    01-24-15 05:38 AM
  22. bb10_fan's Avatar
    Pictures I've done today with my Passport

    standard camera, all settings on Auto:
    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-standard_auto.jpg
    One can easily see that Passport chooses low ISO to reduce the noise, but as a drawback it also slows down the shutter (wind was quite strong, so this thing was rotating like crazy)

    Camera++, ISO forced to 600:
    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-plusplus_iso600.jpg
    As one can see, forcing ISO higher helps to reduce blur due to faster shutter (speed of rotation was constant, the wind is Dutch certified )

    Camera++, ISO forced to 800:
    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-plusplus_iso800.jpg
    Forcing ISO higher reduces blur even more


    Camera++, ISO forced:
    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-plusplus_iso200.jpg
    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-plusplus_iso400.jpg
    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-plusplus_iso600-2.jpg
    Without comments. Drops were actually moving

    Camera++, ISO forced:
    Passport has the worst camera so far in my opinion!-plusplus_iso400-2.jpg
    This was to see if a walking animal can be photographed without much of a blur... Yes, it can be done

    The test was done to see if Passport hardware is capable of something more than what we get from standard camera app. From images you can see that hardware is actually quite capable.

    P.S. it seem CrackBerry reduces image quality for some reason, photos look much more grainy compared to the ones on my computer :/
    Last edited by bb10_fan; 01-24-15 at 12:32 PM.
    habs_fan, dejanh and deptech like this.
    01-24-15 09:33 AM
  23. Vintage123's Avatar
    Where do you go to adjust the ISO?


    Posted via CB10
    01-24-15 10:56 AM
  24. myboxerssayjoe's Avatar
    Where do you go to adjust the ISO?


    Posted via CB10
    You'd have to buy the app Camera++
    bb10_fan likes this.
    01-24-15 11:12 AM
  25. garpt's Avatar
    Do the aftermarket apps really help at all with the focus issue or simply add features to the built in software?
    01-24-15 12:54 PM
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