07-05-18 10:16 AM
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  1. KAM1138's Avatar
    You seem to have missed my point completely, I totally see your side in this, I think rather than criticise your comment maybe someone could offer you help (someone who clearly knows Android well, not me).

    Please re-read my first post.

    Posted via CB10 using my Classic running 10.3.3.3216
    Ok, I did. It seems that you were agreeing that the Responder's (Joewoo's) response was accurate. I thought that you were indicating that you also agreed--that the UI wasn't "low functioning."

    But thanks for the Clarification.
    06-04-18 03:25 PM
  2. KAM1138's Avatar
    Just replaces hitting the square with a gesture. Won't change the game any.

    Somehow 85% of the world gets on fine with Android - including most of the third world with far less education.
    That's a really "obtuse" statement, which is attempting to forward a flawed notion that the issue is about the capability to push a button. Or that because an interface is common that it is somehow good.

    Either way, you're wrong.
    ezubeBB2013 likes this.
    06-04-18 03:55 PM
  3. KAM1138's Avatar
    Hey KAM, let's try and help you out. First, you are correct, BBAndroid is better than regular Android when it’s on a BB device. Not sure how well BBApps integrate on non-BB hardware.

    That being said. Make sure you have both Google accounts logged into Google Play Store. Then make sure that you’re in correct account in the Google Play Store. Then while in the proper account in the Google Play Store, go into “My apps & games” and the app should be under library to be installed. After installing, login via correct ID and you should be ok to go.
    Hmmm, this is odd--only the first sentence showed up previously.

    Ok. When you say "both accounts" there is actually only one Google Account associated with both phones and both "profiles/users" on the DTEK50.

    This game is installed on the secondary user side of things.

    Well, in any case--I'll try what you suggest step by step when I have it in front of me.

    Thanks.

    On the BBAndroid on a Blackberry Branded device vs not...that's a good point. I would HOPE that it would work similarly well, but who knows. It's likely for my use, I'd go with a Blackberry branded device if I was going Android for my daily driver. Either that or iOS, because again...stock android...not loving it.
    06-04-18 04:00 PM
  4. KAM1138's Avatar
    That's a really "obtuse" statement, which is attempting to forward a flawed notion that the issue is about the capability to push a button. Or that because an interface is common that it is somehow good.

    Either way, you're wrong.
    Also...ever think of why 85% of the world uses Android? Think it's because it's the most Premium OS, or because it's free? Yeah, you get what you pay for.

    KAM
    06-04-18 04:02 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    That's a really "obtuse" statement, which is attempting to forward a flawed notion that the issue is about the capability to push a button. Or that because an interface is common that it is somehow good.

    Either way, you're wrong.
    Huh?

    I was making two separate points - one responding to the P gesture, and the other with regards to your notion that Android is somehow difficult or non-intuitive.
    06-04-18 06:09 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    Also...ever think of why 85% of the world uses Android? Think it's because it's the most Premium OS, or because it's free? Yeah, you get what you pay for.

    KAM
    Lots of reasons.

    Yes, free. But it also has the largest ecosystem, the most wearables, the widest breadth of hardware choices at all price points, and the highest customisability.
    06-04-18 06:12 PM
  7. KAM1138's Avatar
    Lots of reasons.

    Yes, free. But it also has the largest ecosystem, the most wearables, the widest breadth of hardware choices at all price points, and the highest customisability.
    Yeah, and each of those things except customizability directly results from large numbers, which which results from being free. I suppose customizability does as well if that results from large ecosystem.
    06-04-18 09:29 PM
  8. KAM1138's Avatar
    Huh?

    I was making two separate points - one responding to the P gesture, and the other with regards to your notion that Android is somehow difficult or non-intuitive.
    Non-intuitive is not quite the same as difficult and I’m sure you are right that most people can browse the internet or make calls or whatever. It doesn’t mean it’s a finely designed or high functioning interface, which in fact might be seen as difficult.

    When I picked up BB10 it was apparent that someone thought how it worked through. When I pick up android it is apparent that it’s an app switcher with other Stuff pasted on.

    The fact remains, app switching is largely what any OS does, so I guess it works for 85% of the world as you say. It just doesn’t seem to do it very well.
    06-04-18 09:45 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    Non-intuitive is not quite the same as difficult and I’m sure you are right that most people can browse the internet or make calls or whatever. It doesn’t mean it’s a finely designed or high functioning interface, which in fact might be seen as difficult.

    When I picked up BB10 it was apparent that someone thought how it worked through. When I pick up android it is apparent that it’s an app switcher with other Stuff pasted on.

    The fact remains, app switching is largely what any OS does, so I guess it works for 85% of the world as you say. It just doesn’t seem to do it very well.
    You're not as daft as you are pretending to be.

    Just put everything else down, and run with Android for a month. You'll answer all of your own questions, and wonder what took you so long to make the change.

    But I think you already know that.
    john_v, joewoo and Jrox74 like this.
    06-04-18 09:47 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Non-intuitive is not quite the same as difficult and I’m sure you are right that most people can browse the internet or make calls or whatever. It doesn’t mean it’s a finely designed or high functioning interface, which in fact might be seen as difficult.

    When I picked up BB10 it was apparent that someone thought how it worked through. When I pick up android it is apparent that it’s an app switcher with other Stuff pasted on.

    The fact remains, app switching is largely what any OS does, so I guess it works for 85% of the world as you say. It just doesn’t seem to do it very well.
    That’s why for me, BBAndroid has been a pleasant compromise. It’s more what I expected to find when I left BBOS five years ago for BB10.
    john_v and Jrox74 like this.
    06-04-18 09:58 PM
  11. KAM1138's Avatar
    You're not as daft as you are pretending to be.

    Just put everything else down, and run with Android for a month. You'll answer all of your own questions, and wonder what took you so long to make the change.

    But I think you already know that.
    Is this your attempt at “when did you stop beating your wife”?

    I may get used to Android, but growing accustomed to something doesn’t mean it suddenly develops features.

    If those features are there I’ve begged everyone to tell me what they are and how to get started enjoying them. No one seems to be able or willing to do that.

    It would be fair to say that I’m resisting an inevitable change, and I’ll have no choice sooner or later.

    Maybe you’re all suffering from Stockholm syndrome of a sort.
    06-04-18 10:04 PM
  12. KAM1138's Avatar
    That’s why for me, BBAndroid has been a pleasant compromise. It’s more what I expected to find when I left BBOS five years ago for BB10.
    I hope that BBAndroid moves forward and I can hope beyond hope that someday gestures get up to speed.

    Maybe I can get to your level of satisfaction.
    06-04-18 10:08 PM
  13. conite's Avatar

    Maybe you’re all suffering from Stockholm syndrome of a sort.
    Or more likely you are.

    Your question however is too vague, similar to "tell me what I need to know about investing" - a rather large topic, combined with your own concepts of risk aversion and personal goals.
    john_v and joewoo like this.
    06-04-18 10:09 PM
  14. danfrancisco's Avatar
    Here's my DroidBerry journey. In 2015, my company pulled the plug on BES and I had to choose between Android and iOS.

    I decided to joined the majority of my colleagues and got an iPhone 6. Two weeks with iOS and I was waving the white flag.

    I then got a Nexus 6 to try my hand at Android (I believe it had Lollipop). This was still before the PRIV came out so I was desperately searching for something comparable to BB10. Well after two weeks with the Nexus 6, I was also waving the white flag!

    Then the PRIV came out. It was marginally better than the Nexus because of the Hub. But it wasn't until Marshmallow coming out that I started noticing a difference. Since then, I've gone through the DTEK50, the DTEK60 and now the KEYone and the DroidBerry experience keeps getting better and better.

    So why am I sharing my journey? It's because I was once a diehard BB10 lover who was forced off the platform for work reasons. Thousands of others will be forced off within a year and a half. You're going to have to make a choice.

    The majority will want to be on a supported platform and that means Android or iOS. Part of that majority will want to stick with BB so Android is the only choice.

    Conite is right, the OS is not complex, it's just getting used to it. It's customizability allows you to make it your own and the wealth of developer support will only improve the platform.
    john_v and deltact like this.
    06-04-18 10:17 PM
  15. KAM1138's Avatar
    Or more likely you are.

    Your question however is too vague, similar to "tell me what I need to know about investing" - a rather large topic, combined with your own concepts of risk aversion and personal goals.
    No, you folks that felt forced to leave BB10 for Android are the ones justifying the shortcomings of Android, whereas I openly admit BB10’s shortcomings.

    I wasn’t co-opted into something, due to something beyond my control and subsequently justified and sympathized with it.

    So, no, your experience mirrors Stockholm syndrome, not mine. But that’s just a response to your backhanded insults, not a serious claim.

    Too vague? You don’t understand what I mean when I ask what functionality exists in the UI? Not one thing you can refer to? You know how BB10 works as a starting point. Presumably you actually use your device beyond opening an App and smashing a geometric shape and starting again.
    You can’t name any examples at all that your average user might find helpful or interesting or efficient?
    06-04-18 10:34 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    No, you folks that felt forced to leave BB10 for Android are the ones justifying the shortcomings of Android, whereas I openly admit BB10’s shortcomings.

    I wasn’t co-opted into something, due to something beyond my control and subsequently justified and sympathized with it.

    So, no, your experience mirrors Stockholm syndrome, not mine. But that’s just a response to your backhanded insults, not a serious claim.

    Too vague? You don’t understand what I mean when I ask what functionality exists in the UI? Not one thing you can refer to? You know how BB10 works as a starting point. Presumably you actually use your device beyond opening an App and smashing a geometric shape and starting again.
    You can’t name any examples at all that your average user might find helpful or interesting or efficient?
    Justifying shortcomings? I do no such thing. I find almost everything better.

    Better file management, better app integration and data sharing between them, better sound/notification profile control, better connectivity, better media controls and streaming options, better custom gestures and keyboard shortcuts, better theming, better homescreen layouts, better multitasking with split screen, widgets for quick reference and interaction, and on, and on, and on, and on.

    How one sets things up is a matter of preference and using the right combination of available apps.
    06-04-18 10:39 PM
  17. KAM1138's Avatar
    Here's my DroidBerry journey. In 2015, my company pulled the plug on BES and I had to choose between Android and iOS.

    I decided to joined the majority of my colleagues and got an iPhone 6. Two weeks with iOS and I was waving the white flag.

    I then got a Nexus 6 to try my hand at Android (I believe it had Lollipop). This was still before the PRIV came out so I was desperately searching for something comparable to BB10. Well after two weeks with the Nexus 6, I was also waving the white flag!

    Then the PRIV came out. It was marginally better than the Nexus because of the Hub. But it wasn't until Marshmallow coming out that I started noticing a difference. Since then, I've gone through the DTEK50, the DTEK60 and now the KEYone and the DroidBerry experience keeps getting better and better.

    So why am I sharing my journey? It's because I was once a diehard BB10 lover who was forced off the platform for work reasons. Thousands of others will be forced off within a year and a half. You're going to have to make a choice.

    The majority will want to be on a supported platform and that means Android or iOS. Part of that majority will want to stick with BB so Android is the only choice.

    Conite is right, the OS is not complex, it's just getting used to it. It's customizability allows you to make it your own and the wealth of developer support will only improve the platform.
    Thank you for sharing that. It is actually helpful to hear, contrasted with what sounds like more like denial, than optimism.

    You are right, I will be forced off like you were. The only difference is that my Situation has allowed me to hold out. But that will end, no doubt.

    I don’t think I stated Android is complex. Rather it seems like a mess.
    06-04-18 10:41 PM
  18. danfrancisco's Avatar
    Thank you for sharing that. It is actually helpful to hear, contrasted with what sounds like more like denial, than optimism.

    You are right, I will be forced off like you were. The only difference is that my Situation has allowed me to hold out. But that will end, no doubt.

    I don’t think I stated Android is complex. Rather it seems like a mess.
    I agree with you in that Android seems like a mess compared to BB10... but I believe that's a matter of perspective.

    A few years back, I got my kids some tablets running Android 4. At the time, I was happily using my Passport SE as my daily driver and when faced with the Android OS, I was like... wth is this? It seemed so primitive, aesthetically ugly and just so cumbersome to use with brutal UX compared to BB10.

    With Nougat, Android really polished the ugliness and usability. It is light years better than the days of 4.0 and 4.1. Nowadays, when I fire up my Passport or Classic for a little weekend nostalgia run, I wonder why I was so resistant to Android? I now honestly believe that Android N is superior to BB10. Again, it's a matter of perspective and my perspective is from a consumer who has been using a DroidBerry for the last 2.5 years.

    That said, if we were in a different space/time continuum and lived in a world where BB10 had the latest Android Run Time, with full Google service support...
    06-04-18 10:55 PM
  19. KAM1138's Avatar
    Justifying shortcomings? I do no such thing. I find almost everything better.

    Better file management, better app integration and data sharing between them, better sound/notification profile control, better connectivity, better media controls and streaming options, better custom gestures and keyboard shortcuts, better theming, better homescreen layouts, better multitasking with split screen, widgets for quick reference and interaction, and on, and on, and on, and on.
    Sounds kinda like a list of justifications, and a list of subjective preferences. I seem to recall you dismissing personal preference. Better for you? Better for me? Maybe, maybe not.

    What of those things is part of Android vs third party. Important point because my knock was on Android’s lack of UI functionality.

    App integration and data sharing seem more objective however.

    Better home screens, themeing. Hmmm, not really a good trade for the Hub in my order of needs.
    06-04-18 10:57 PM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I hope that BBAndroid moves forward and I can hope beyond hope that someday gestures get up to speed.

    Maybe I can get to your level of satisfaction.
    It took me quitting BBOS cold turkey for BB10 to become usable. Even after using Regular Android while having BBOS and then BB10, I never fully enjoyed it like BBOS and then BBAndroid made it possible. I had to quit BB10 cold turkey as well but it wasn’t as bad for me as moving to BB10.

    The biggest thing was accepting that BBOS and then BB10 weren’t really better OS as much as different OS. All types of successful people are use the different OS with ease so it was just a matter of me having to accept change. I’ve had to read the book “Who moved the cheese? more than once. LOL
    pdr733 likes this.
    06-04-18 11:01 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    Sounds kinda like a list of justifications, and a list of subjective preferences. I seem to recall you dismissing personal preference. Better for you? Better for me? Maybe, maybe not.

    What of those things is part of Android vs third party. Important point because my knock was on Android’s lack of UI functionality.

    App integration and data sharing seem more objective however.

    Better home screens, themeing. Hmmm, not really a good trade for the Hub in my order of needs.
    It's hard to have a discussion when all you want to do is dismiss everything out of hand, and not even read the post. You ask questions, and then pick apart the answers. You get answers and then change the goalposts on the questions.

    I said "I find almost everything better", and then I list those things I find better.

    I also wrote you need to find the right mix of built-in and 3rd party functionality. Why are you asking again? 3rd party apps can be so deeply integrated they can become completely indistinguishable from the OS.

    I can swipe to HUB from anywhere, no problem. Any why would theming and HUB be tradeoffs? It's not a binary choice.
    joewoo and pdr733 like this.
    06-04-18 11:02 PM
  22. KAM1138's Avatar
    I agree with you in that Android seems like a mess compared to BB10... but I believe that's a matter of perspective.

    A few years back, I got my kids some tablets running Android 4. At the time, I was happily using my Passport SE as my daily driver and when faced with the Android OS, I was like... wth is this? It seemed so primitive, aesthetically ugly and just so cumbersome to use with brutal UX compared to BB10.

    With Nougat, Android really polished the ugliness and usability. It is light years better than the days of 4.0 and 4.1. Nowadays, when I fire up my Passport or Classic for a little weekend nostalgia run, I wonder why I was so resistant to Android? I now honestly believe that Android N is superior to BB10. Again, it's a matter of perspective and my perspective is from a consumer who has been using a DroidBerry for the last 2.5 years.

    That said, if we were in a different space/time continuum and lived in a world where BB10 had the latest Android Run Time, with full Google service support...
    Again, thanks, because others seem to want to imply my perspective (which is following yours) is some sort of fantasy.

    In regards to the “mess”. Well, it reminds me of the guy with a total mess on his desk, but he knows where it all is, and thus “works.”

    I won’t get into the “if only”scenario, because that hope is dead even for me.

    For you, is it ‘droidberry’ that makes the difference in closing that gap? You mentioned waving the white flag with iOS and non BBAndroid. Do you think it would be acceptable (to you) without it?
    06-04-18 11:05 PM
  23. KAM1138's Avatar
    It's hard to have a discussion when all you want to do is dismiss everything out of hand, and not even read the post.

    I said "I find almost everything better", and then I list those things I find better.

    I also wrote you need to find the right mix of built-in and 3rd party functionality. Why are you asking again?

    I can swipe to HUB from anywhere, no problem. Any why would theming and HUB be tradeoffs? It's not a binary choice.
    I guess when you liter your posts with nonsense like “and you didn’t even read the post” or “you aren’t as daft as you pretend to be” then I sort of write you off as less than sincere.

    I’m sure you think that’s witty, and I’m up for some ribbing as much as anyone (Stockholm syndrome) but in the end, it’s not very useful.
    06-04-18 11:20 PM
  24. danfrancisco's Avatar

    For you, is it ‘droidberry’ that makes the difference in closing that gap? You mentioned waving the white flag with iOS and non BBAndroid. Do you think it would be acceptable (to you) without it?
    If you're asking me whether DroidBerry closes my perceived gaps of iOS, then the answer is a thousand times YES! Using an iPhone for work was tortuous... two of the least productive weeks of my career. I frequently travel for work and regularly visit clients with only my BlackBerry. When the iPhone was the daily driver, that was NOT an option. I had to have my laptop with me.

    That said, I don't want to come off as an Apple hater. While I typically travel with just my BB and no laptop, my other must have device is my iPad mini. I may not care for the iPhone, but the iPad is the best plane companion for movies!

    As for non BB Android, I have a Note 8 with the Hub installed and the UX is pretty close to a DroidBerry. I would not say that there are any gaps with that Note 8 setup. What I will say though, is that Samsung's skin of Android leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of bloatware that I wish I could delete.

    With my KEYone, I get pretty much the same UX than the Note 8 minus the bloatware (BB runs a pretty clean, almost stock version of Android) plus a pkb plus the design hardware elements that I love from BB devices.

    Also, I have an unapologetic bias for BB. As long as they keep making DroidBerrys, I'll keep buying them. The exception to this would be with the DTEKs. While they were serviceable devices, they were also TCL's equivalent of dipping their toes into the BB waters and I just could not shake the Alcatel Idol vibe from them. I'm so happy they committed to designing fresh devices, baked with plenty of BB DNA rather than cloning more Alcatel units.
    pdr733 likes this.
    06-04-18 11:29 PM
  25. KAM1138's Avatar
    It took me quitting BBOS cold turkey for BB10 to become usable. Even after using Regular Android while having BBOS and then BB10, I never fully enjoyed it like BBOS and then BBAndroid made it possible. I had to quit BB10 cold turkey as well but it wasn’t as bad for me as moving to BB10.

    The biggest thing was accepting that BBOS and then BB10 weren’t really better OS as much as different OS. All types of successful people are use the different OS with ease so it was just a matter of me having to accept change. I’ve had to read the book “Who moved the cheese? more than once. LOL
    I think that’s a fair assessment. I used BBOS for a relatively short time, so perhaps I didn’t become entrenched. I will admit I am pretty entrenched in BB10.

    A lot of what I’m hearing is that one can tinker around with Android and get it to work for them. That seems like me having to do a lot of work to get a tool to function which seems opposite of what a tool should do for me, which is to make things easier—to provide me benefits rather than me having to service it.
    06-04-18 11:32 PM
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