07-05-18 11:16 AM
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  1. KAM1138's Avatar
    Hello,

    Well, I got a new phone (Nokia 6.1) for a family member and after spending a weekend struggling to get Android to function as it is claimed to function, I'm going to hang onto my Passport as long as I can. Meaning, this EXPERIENCE convinced me not to switch my phone. I'm still stuck with the Nokia 6.1 (which seems like a decent phone).

    I was trying to backup Apps (specifically app data) from a DTEK50 to the new phone, and I tried several different methods, including using Google Drive, content transfer app, direct file transfer (via connection), and also looking for help on Android-Central (there was an article about the exact thing), nothing worked.

    I also spent about an hour on the phone with Google Support, talking to a very nice person who seemed very dedicated to helping me, and who provided incorrect information several times, including claiming that Android didn't include features it did, and having ignorance of how various features of Android worked (admitted by them).

    So, while I was starting to think that I might look into the KeyTwo and shift over before the end of 2019, this experience has made me think otherwise.

    Apparently, there is some way to accomplish what I want, but according to some (older) videos that requires rooting the phone (?), and I'm not willing to mess around with it to that extent.

    So, this app I'm trying to transfer--it's NOT important in any significant way (to me), but that's not the point. Rather, FOR ME PERSONALLY, dealing with android is like nails on a chalkboard. NOTHING seems intuitive or in a place that makes sense, and it's an exercise in frustration.

    So, perhaps there's some level of skill and knowledge that can make android "sing" and perform well, but for someone of my skill level it's just a low-functioning app switcher--and one that doesn't work well--vs iOS which is pretty much locked in, but at least seems to function at what you're allowed to do.

    I realize this isn't a direct apples to apples comparison with BB10, but I've never had any issues approaching this when dealing with Blackberry devices, including shifting between an Android Phone to BBOS then to BB10, to another BB10 device and even BB10 to Android. Trying to shift between DTEK 50 and Stock Android--just didn't work well for me at all.

    So, FOR ME (not claiming for anyone else), Android remains a really big disappointment, despite trying repeatedly.

    It doesn't seem to have substantially changed since I had an HTC EVO. Still the same, buggy, low functioning (in terms of UI) OS.

    The UP side of this--is that I have more of an appreciation of the Blackberry Software on android. It isn't BB10, but it seems to be a major improvement over stock Android.
    06-04-18 11:11 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    To each their own....

    Did take a few weeks to get the hang of Android, but seems very intuitive too me at this point. And for the most part bug free.

    What app were you dealing with? Maybe someone here has had some experience with it and could help you move the data over.
    06-04-18 12:15 PM
  3. KAM1138's Avatar
    To each their own....

    Did take a few weeks to get the hang of Android, but seems very intuitive too me at this point. And for the most part bug free.

    What app were you dealing with? Maybe someone here has had some experience with it and could help you move the data over.
    Maybe someone could help, but it's a stupid game (as I said, not important in itself). This post was more about how Android just doesn't click with me.

    But if anyone happens to know--the game is a Cartoon Network game called "Teeny Titans" (based on Teen Titans cartoon). It is in the Google Play store of course, and it does recognize that it was purchased (so that's not an issue for downloading), but there are no "Saves" it's a fresh install. There are actually 3 games all with the same issue, but that one was of primary interest (to the player).
    The game is also linked to the Play Google App (I think that's what it's called) which is one of those achievement sharing apps, and we tried linking via that too, but it doesn't seem to have the "Save" feature that the Play App refers to.

    I'll describe the problem more fully, just for information.
    The DTEK50 has a two User Accounts, and this game is installed on the Secondary account, and isn't backing up via Google Drive--only the primary account is. We've been unable to find a way to get Google Drive to Backup the secondary account, nor shift the game over to the primary account (although both use the same google account). There is no secondary google account at all.

    I found an Android Central Article about how newer versions (prior to DTEK 50) have this function of saving and restoring Apps AND app Data (user data). But we can't even get Google Drive to recognize the App at all. Actually--there were three apps (all games)

    THEN, there's no guarantee that the Saves will be available even if the App was backed up with Google Drive.

    I was told (by Google Support) that they had no knowledge of the secondary user account within Android (it's also on the new phone which is stock Android, so that doesn't appear to be a DTEK50 function), and that Google Drive didn't have anything to do with Apps (despite the Android Central article stating exactly that). When I told them about that, they reversed their statement and then agreed that it did.

    Bottom line--this particular instance is about a stupid game--NOT ultimately important, but rather an example of the issues I have trying to do what seems like should be simple things within Android.

    Another problem--contacts which were in the BlackBerry Contacts App (DTEK50) didn't transfer over to standard Android contacts. Apparently that's locked in the Blackberry app? Tried that with Google Drive and Content Transfer app as well.
    06-04-18 12:37 PM
  4. KAM1138's Avatar
    to say Android is low functioning is laughable... just sounds like haterade... maaaaaybe you can call it low efficiency...

    98% of posts like this are from os10 users trying to adjust to Android and having a hard (short) time and ******** about...
    Yes, I hate Android. I used it regularly back in...what was it version 4.0, and that was coming from the Palm Pre. It was an utter joke in regards to functionality--and by "functionality" I mean how it works for the user. It was literally an app switcher.

    I haven't used Android Extensively since then (although I tried the DTEK50 and found it to be slightly better), and then my bit of time with the Nokia, which appears to have...no functionality beyond opening apps, and mashing these idiotically archaic Triangle/Circle/Square buttons.

    Now, it appears that Android may be finally catching up with other OS functionality of 8 years ago in the next version.

    But perhaps "functionality" means something different, because again--Android doesn't appear to be doing much of anything other than opening an app, with no integration to speak of. It doesn't seem much different from version 4.0 in terms of actual use.

    The notifications do indeed stack up, but that's annoying. I'm guessing there's a way to address that to make them time out or something, instead of sitting there.

    What "functionality" are you thinking of that I might be missing? I'd love to get more out of it, because I may very well be stuck with it soon enough.
    06-04-18 02:09 PM
  5. KAM1138's Avatar
    I really wish I knew someone who could show me how Android is supposed to work--someone who really knows how to get the most out of it, because it just isn't apparent to me.

    The Android Hub+ software was pretty disappointing, but it seems worlds above stock android.

    So, with all sincerity--I'd love to hear what people are getting out of Android in terms of daily use. Bearing in mind I'm coming from BB10, and accustomed to how it works. I don't expect it will be the SAME experience, but people who used BB10, and who were excited about it (once upon a time), know what I'm talking about. The "Flow" which they attempted to sell people on for example.

    BB10 just seems to provide the User with a very different user experience, which doesn't involve smashing a back button at every turn.
    06-04-18 02:15 PM
  6. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I really wish I knew someone who could show me how Android is supposed to work--someone who really knows how to get the most out of it, because it just isn't apparent to me.

    The Android Hub+ software was pretty disappointing, but it seems worlds above stock android.

    So, with all sincerity--I'd love to hear what people are getting out of Android in terms of daily use. Bearing in mind I'm coming from BB10, and accustomed to how it works. I don't expect it will be the SAME experience, but people who used BB10, and who were excited about it (once upon a time), know what I'm talking about. The "Flow" which they attempted to sell people on for example.

    BB10 just seems to provide the User with a very different user experience, which doesn't involve smashing a back button at every turn.
    The FLOW never really worked.... gestures were different depending on where you were. Given time I'm sure HUB, Settings, and all Native Apps would have worked the same (wouldn't have been ports or Android Apps). But as it was, the flow took a lot of getting use to depending on what your were doing. I think it probable took me a couple of months to really make the transition from BBOS to BB10... even having had a PlayBook to help with those gestures. Took time to transition from BB10 to Android.... heck it took time to transition from a Motorola Android to a Samsung Android.

    Will there be times you say "BB10 could do this with fewer steps".... yes. But then there are the "BB10 could never have ran this app" or "My Z10 never lasted this long on one charge" or "My Z10 could never take photos this great".....

    In the end, I wouldn't rule out iOS... nor would I even considered it a "closed" ecosystem. Simple, yet powerful to do most things...
    06-04-18 02:41 PM
  7. KAM1138's Avatar
    The FLOW never really worked.... gestures were different depending on where you were. Given time I'm sure HUB, Settings, and all Native Apps would have worked the same (wouldn't have been ports or Android Apps). But as it was, the flow took a lot of getting use to depending on what your were doing. I think it probable took me a couple of months to really make the transition from BBOS to BB10... even having had a PlayBook to help with those gestures. Took time to transition from BB10 to Android.... heck it took time to transition from a Motorola Android to a Samsung Android.

    Will there be times you say "BB10 could do this with fewer steps".... yes. But then there are the "BB10 could never have ran this app" or "My Z10 never lasted this long on one charge" or "My Z10 could never take photos this great".....

    In the end, I wouldn't rule out iOS... nor would I even considered it a "closed" ecosystem. Simple, yet powerful to do most things...
    Well, it worked for me pretty seamlessly. I did use BBOS (Bold 9930), and I don't recall it being a tough transition. I did use the Playbook, and the Palm Pre, both of which had Gestures, so maybe that made it more natural for me.

    I'm fully willing to admit that it CAN take time to learn a new way of doing things, but I'm just not seeing ANY particular functionality to learn. Again--if there were a whole new set of Gestures to Learn (like I had to do with the Palm Pre), then I can see--ok, that's something to work on.

    Learning the Passport Keyboard takes a bit of time coming from a VKB or even the classic (in my opinion inferior) PKB. No physical period Button without shifting...really?

    I use iOS (ipad), but not for daily tasks like I use my Passport. I occasionally use an iphone for a few minutes here or there, and while it seems to lack the features of BB10, it seems a bit more intuitive and to "flow" (not FLOW) better.

    Based on my limited experience is that both iOS and Android are fairly limited in interface (compared to BB10), and are only slowly catching up to WebOS and BB10 (which seemed to borrow from WebOS style gestures a bit).

    The difference seems to be that Apple spent some time designing an OS to do things exactly the way that they decide it should work, and it DOES function...but that's how it functions.

    Android seems to be a really slap-dash design that has grown in a more "wild west" fashion with many manufacturers slapping their own interface on top of it, and stock android remaining fairly..."low functioning." As such, it doesn't really have any sort of "flow" at all.

    Now, there may be all sorts of apps and controls hidden in there that one can customize that I'm not aware of. Again--I hope there are, as I might be able to trick it into functioning in a way that's acceptable. But out of the box...it's a low functioning mess.

    I can see the appeal of tinkering with a device, but as I said--I don't know where to start with that.

    If the answer is "Download a bunch of third party apps" then anyone who might answer can stop right there--I'm not going to do that, nor does that address what ANDROID is and does in itself.
    06-04-18 03:17 PM
  8. joewoo's Avatar
    no integration on android? you can be at almost any major app and share to another... with os10, the sharing has to be done by copy and pasting...
    06-04-18 03:18 PM
  9. KAM1138's Avatar
    no one is gonna show you how Android works... wtf... use it for a year... practice...

    I don't even know what you're asking... you want someone to go over the functionality?!?!??! c'mon man....
    You don't even know what I'm asking. Right. That might be the issue.

    I don't expect anyone to do anything. No one owes me any of their time. But since you seem to think it's so obvious, I would think it would be easy to demonstrate how it is "high functioning." It's "laughable" to think otherwise according to you, right?

    But you haven't listed any of this high functionality that you seem to claim exists within Android, and as I've stated--I don't see it.
    06-04-18 03:23 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You don't even know what I'm asking. Right. That might be the issue.

    I don't expect anyone to do anything. No one owes me any of their time. But since you seem to think it's so obvious, I would think it would be easy to demonstrate how it is "high functioning." It's "laughable" to think otherwise according to you, right?

    But you haven't listed any of this high functionality that you seem to claim exists within Android, and as I've stated--I don't see it.
    Hey KAM, let's try and help you out. First, you are correct, BBAndroid is better than regular Android when it’s on a BB device. Not sure how well BBApps integrate on non-BB hardware.

    That being said. Make sure you have both Google accounts logged into Google Play Store. Then make sure that you’re in correct account in the Google Play Store. Then while in the proper account in the Google Play Store, go into “My apps & games” and the app should be under library to be installed. After installing, login via correct ID and you should be ok to go.
    06-04-18 03:27 PM
  11. KAM1138's Avatar
    Yeah you used 4.0 ..... Looooong time ago... Many things have changed... Basically, you haven't used android... And trying to learn it over a weekend is not easy...

    I'm not here to make a list of functionality of Android... But when you make those noob claims of Android, I just had to say it was laughable... It's clearly opinions from someone who hasn't taken time to learn the OS
    Well, Actually I have. When the DTEK50 came out, I spent some time with it, so that was...what Android 6.0?

    Also--it seems like you're not quite understanding what I'm saying. I'm not claiming that I should be an expert at working with Android over a weekend. I'm saying that there is nothing apparent to learn about in terms of the UI--the User Experience seems pretty bare--which is why I said it was essentially unchanged from 4.0--from what I can see.

    In regards to "taken time to learn." Well, again, not QUITE true, because I have spent time with the DTEK50, but beyond that...you mentioned a YEAR to learn the OS...it took me a few hours to gain proficiency in BB10 or WebOS.
    What I'm telling you is that the UI is such that those things (for me) were apparent, and easy to learn.

    I'm just not seeing it in Android, but I'm fully willing to admit that I might just not be aware of it, but at the same time am confused as to why this wouldn't be obvious, if it exists.
    06-04-18 03:32 PM
  12. KAM1138's Avatar
    Hey KAM, let's try and help you out.
    Ok, sure. You know BB10 and WebOS, so you probably have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about when I refer to "functionality" or UI.

    With stock Android--are there any things I should be looking for to help function beyond "back button" app switching sort of interface? Anything I can start with?

    As i said--the Next version of Android (P) is previewing Gestures that look pretty good. But that's not here yet.
    06-04-18 03:35 PM
  13. conite's Avatar

    As i said--the Next version of Android (P) is previewing Gestures that look pretty good. But that's not here yet.
    Just replaces hitting the square with a gesture. Won't change the game any.

    Somehow 85% of the world gets on fine with Android - including most of the third world with far less education.
    joewoo and pdr733 like this.
    06-04-18 03:38 PM
  14. KAM1138's Avatar
    Just replaces hitting the square with a gesture. Won't change the game any.

    Somehow 85% of the world gets on fine with Android - including most of the third world with far less education.
    I'm not sure how it all works, but from what I've seen it's more than replacing a button with a gesture. Didn't it have the "card" system--very similar to WebOS and later versions of iOS?

    But you may be right--it isn't not really integrated into the OS well, it might just be a pasted on annoyance. I don't know.

    I may have dismissed the Value of Hub+, because there was a noticeable difference in the simple things with the DTEK50 and the Stock Android "flow"--at least for me, coming from BB10.

    I think you had mentioned recently that you initially enjoyed BB10's interface as well, but have transitioned to Blackdroid-ish interface. Was it you that was praising how the Hub worked on Android? One of the better e-mail clients? I may be forgetting who said that.
    06-04-18 03:43 PM
  15. Fret Madden's Avatar
    If your game isn't tied to Google Play Games or GP Games isn't active on your device, it can't back up to Drive. If it's linked and still not backing up to Drive, there's something else not letting it work.
    06-04-18 03:45 PM
  16. KAM1138's Avatar
    If your game isn't tied to Google Play Games or GP Games isn't active on your device, it can't back up to Drive. If it's linked and still not backing up to Drive, there's something else not letting it work.
    Thanks for the response. It is listed in the Google 'Play games' app (can be opened from there, etc). So, I think you're right--there's some reason it's not backing up.
    It may be the app just doesn't include saving integration.
    06-04-18 03:48 PM
  17. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Thanks for the response. It is listed in the Google 'Play games' app (can be opened from there, etc). So, I think you're right--there's some reason it's not backing up.
    It may be the app just doesn't include saving integration.
    That's the first key to find out how games are saved.... for some it's on the companies servers and all you need is your logon info. Others use social media services like Facebook, if that's their option and you don't want to use it... they you can't save your info. (me I have a fake facebook account that's only for a few games)

    Very few rely on device storage...
    06-04-18 03:53 PM
  18. Fret Madden's Avatar
    Thanks for the response. It is listed in the Google 'Play games' app (can be opened from there, etc). So, I think you're right--there's some reason it's not backing up.
    It may be the app just doesn't include saving integration.
    From within Tiny Titans, does it request access to GP Games?
    06-04-18 03:53 PM
  19. KAM1138's Avatar
    That's the first key to find out how games are saved.... for some it's on the companies servers and all you need is your logon info. Others use social media services like Facebook, if that's their option and you don't want to use it... they you can't save your info. (me I have a fake facebook account that's only for a few games)

    Very few rely on device storage...
    There wasn't a login--like onto an external server, nor did it use Facebook or Google To login (unless it was done behind the scenes with Google account active on that phone).

    Pokemon Go was also on that phone, and that was no problem--because you just installed and then logged into the account and it was all there.
    06-04-18 03:56 PM
  20. KAM1138's Avatar
    From within Tiny Titans, does it request access to GP Games?
    Ok first--the DTEK50 did not have Google Play Games on it, when this game was installed (not sure if that makes a difference). In order to try and save the progress, we installed GP games, and within that app, Teeny Titans showed up--meaning it recognized it and a few other games.

    As far as Requesting Access? I believe it did, but I'll have to go back and look again.

    Oh yeah--in regards to Google Drive. The DTEK50 had a primary account and a secondary account where the Game was installed from. Nothing in the secondary account backed up to Google Drive. I haven't been able to figure out how to get that to work, but perhaps if I could, then it would transfer over and be able to be restored to the new phone.

    The different account thing sets up a pretty hard wall, and I've struggled with that in a number of areas, but I also can't figure out how to dismantle or merge those accounts back down into the primary.

    I'm only mentioning this because it seems to be a hang-up, and one I've not been able to resolve.
    06-04-18 03:59 PM
  21. KAM1138's Avatar
    That's the first key to find out how games are saved.... for some it's on the companies servers and all you need is your logon info. Others use social media services like Facebook, if that's their option and you don't want to use it... they you can't save your info. (me I have a fake facebook account that's only for a few games)

    Very few rely on device storage...
    Also--in searching for an answer for this, there were some videos talking about the "Save File". I think they were looking for those for other reasons--a third party security app that wiped out the save file I think.

    In any case--this may be a game that does keep a save file on the device.
    06-04-18 04:05 PM
  22. Fret Madden's Avatar
    That's the first key to find out how games are saved.... for some it's on the companies servers and all you need is your logon info. Others use social media services like Facebook, if that's their option and you don't want to use it... they you can't save your info. (me I have a fake facebook account that's only for a few games)

    Very few rely on device storage...
    They should always have a local or their own hosted backup if someone doesn't want to use Facebook. I don't play a huge amount so I'm not an expert on all configurations; so far I've had games that backed up locally, or backed up on Drive, or backed up on the company's server(s). A lot had an option for Facebook login/backup but I've never had one that made that the only option - I'd skip it if I ever came across one.
    06-04-18 04:06 PM
  23. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    There wasn't a login--like onto an external server, nor did it use Facebook or Google To login (unless it was done behind the scenes with Google account active on that phone).

    Pokemon Go was also on that phone, and that was no problem--because you just installed and then logged into the account and it was all there.
    Went to the developers website, only backup capability is with iCloud. Number of complainants about not providing the same ability for Android devices. That's really on the game developer and not the fault of Google, other than the fact that many developers make their apps for iOS and just port them over to Android as an after taught.
    Fret Madden likes this.
    06-04-18 04:11 PM
  24. m3ach's Avatar
    Yes, please do tell me what High (opposite of low) functionality that Android is providing that I'm missing.

    But Since it's apparent to you m3ach--please tell me.
    You seem to have missed my point completely, I totally see your side in this, I think rather than criticise your comment maybe someone could offer you help (someone who clearly knows Android well, not me).

    Please re-read my first post.

    Posted via CB10 using my Classic running 10.3.3.3216
    06-04-18 04:19 PM
  25. KAM1138's Avatar
    Went to the developers website, only backup capability is with iCloud. Number of complainants about not providing the same ability for Android devices. That's really on the game developer and not the fault of Google, other than the fact that many developers make their apps for iOS and just port them over to Android as an after taught.
    I saw some posts on that subject, but they were fairly old.
    That's why I was hoping that the advertised (Android Central article I mentioned) about Google Drive being able to backup/restore apps and app data would work.

    The save file apparently does exist, so If I can get to it, I MIGHT be able to manually place it in whatever folder it resides. On a PC that would work I think, not sure about Android.

    Also--I was actually able to file-transfer the APK to the new phone and it seemed to load, but the save wasn't there.

    Well, in any case Thank you and Fret Madden for attempting to resolve this issue. I certainly appreciate it.
    06-04-18 04:21 PM
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