[conite]

I think that’s a fair assessment. I used BBOS for a relatively short time, so perhaps I didn’t become entrenched. I will admit I am pretty entrenched in BB10.

A lot of what I’m hearing is that one can tinker around with Android and get it to work for them. That seems like me having to do a lot of work to get a tool to function which seems opposite of what a tool should do for me, which is to make things easier—to provide me benefits rather than me having to service it.

Cooking always tastes better from scratch. You end up with a better product.

If you want turnkey simple, get an iPhone.

[KAM1138]

If you're asking me whether DroidBerry closes my perceived gaps of iOS, then the answer is a thousand times YES! Using an iPhone for work was tortuous... two of the least productive weeks of my career. I frequently travel for work and regularly visit clients with only my BlackBerry. When the iPhone was the daily driver, that was NOT an option. I had to have my laptop with me.

That said, I don't want to come off as an Apple hater. While I typically travel with just my BB and no laptop, my other must have device is my iPad mini. I may not care for the iPhone, but the iPad is the best plane companion for movies!

As for non BB Android, I have a Note 8 with the Hub installed and the UX is pretty close to a DroidBerry. I would not say that there are any gaps with that Note 8 setup. What I will say though, is that Samsung's skin of Android leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of bloatware that I wish I could delete.

With my KEYone, I get pretty much the same UX than the Note 8 minus the bloatware (BB runs a pretty clean, almost stock version of Android) plus a pkb plus the design hardware elements that I love from BB devices.

Also, I have an unapologetic bias for BB. As long as they keep making DroidBerrys, I'll keep buying them. The exception to this would be with the DTEKs. While they were serviceable devices, they were also TCL's equivalent of dipping their toes into the BB waters and I just could not shake the Alcatel Idol vibe from them. I'm so happy they committed to designing fresh devices, baked with plenty of BB DNA rather than cloning more Alcatel units.

I’ve become fond of Blackberry’s “DNA” myself.
I’ve got an iPad (using it now) but it’s for recreation.

I’m on the fence with hoping to iOS or shifting to BBAndroid. The Hub is a big deal for me, so that remains a strong draw, and I have wanted to get a KeyOne, but the price hasn’t been right.

[A Noise Annoys]

I did the same thing but recently had to face reality when one more app started to fail on me. I tried to buy a Motion but they seem as rare as hen's teeth here so I ended up with a Samsung A8 which I've had for about 10 days now, of which I've spent about 7 setting up and refining. I'm still not entirely happy with it for all the usual reasons people complain about Android, but the experience is a whole lot better now that I've added BB's VKB and Hub.

It's inevitable; start the grieving process now.

[KAM1138]

I did the same thing but recently had to face reality when one more app started to fail on me. I tried to buy a Motion but they seem as rare as hen's teeth here so I ended up with a Samsung A8 which I've had for about 10 days now, of which I've spent about 7 setting up and refining. I'm still not entirely happy with it for all the usual reasons people complain about Android, but the experience is a whole lot better now that I've added BB's VKB and Hub.

It's inevitable; start the grieving process now.

My Passport is still hanging on, but I did get a few "oops" messages, but oddly, things went on working anyway. For now at least.

I actually like the K1 and K2 from what I've seen of them, but I'm disappointed that they keep those stupid Android buttons. I'd also prefer a Passport Style 3 Row Keyboard.

While I've come to appreciate what Hub+ provides, I am not convinced that Blackberry is dedicated to that. I wish they went full bore (being a software company and all).

But I guess I've been grieving for a couple years now...I'm just still holding onto the casket while people are pulling my feet away.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

My Passport is still hanging on, but I did get a few "oops" messages, but oddly, things went on working anyway. For now at least.

I actually like the K1 and K2 from what I've seen of them, but I'm disappointed that they keep those stupid Android buttons. I'd also prefer a Passport Style 3 Row Keyboard.

While I've come to appreciate what Hub+ provides, I am not convinced that Blackberry is dedicated to that. I wish they went full bore (being a software company and all).

But I guess I've been grieving for a couple years now...I'm just still holding onto the casket while people are pulling my feet away.

The could only go as "full bore" as the Android OS allows and as their funding would allow.

In the end, it's just a tool - use what works best for you.

[KAM1138]

The could only go as "full bore" as the Android OS allows and as their funding would allow.

In the end, it's just a tool - use what works best for you.

Well, that's sort of the whole issue, and why I come here--because the options have been limited to Android and iOS, neither of which I particularly like.

What works best for me is BB10, and well...we know where that's going/gone.

Apparently, I'm the one person in all the world who is least able to adapt, but from my way of thinking we live in a Tech-Heavy 21st Century, and we have TWO choices.

That sucks. It's like there being only two car companies, or two fast food choices, or any other limited selection market. In TECH. Insane.

[Chuck Finley69]

Well, that's sort of the whole issue, and why I come here--because the options have been limited to Android and iOS, neither of which I particularly like.

What works best for me is BB10, and well...we know where that's going/gone.

Apparently, I'm the one person in all the world who is least able to adapt, but from my way of thinking we live in a Tech-Heavy 21st Century, and we have TWO choices.

That sucks. It's like there being only two car companies, or two fast food choices, or any other limited selection market. In TECH. Insane.

But isn’t that how tech has pretty much always been?

Desktop/Laptop - Microsoft/Apple - Bunch of smaller type OS low adoption variants

Tablet/Phone - Google/Apple - Bunch of smaller type OS low adoption variants.

Simplistic but cost of tech OS development supports this business model.

[KAM1138]

But isn’t that how tech has pretty much always been?

Desktop/Laptop - Microsoft/Apple - Bunch of smaller type OS low adoption variants

Tablet/Phone - Google/Apple - Bunch of smaller type OS low adoption variants.

Simplistic but cost of tech OS development supports this business model.

Yeah, it does seem to collapse to that duopoly.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Well, that's sort of the whole issue, and why I come here--because the options have been limited to Android and iOS, neither of which I particularly like.

What works best for me is BB10, and well...we know where that's going/gone.

Apparently, I'm the one person in all the world who is least able to adapt, but from my way of thinking we live in a Tech-Heavy 21st Century, and we have TWO choices.

That sucks. It's like there being only two car companies, or two fast food choices, or any other limited selection market. In TECH. Insane.

I think it would have been nice to have four or five viable platforms.... But it wasn't to be.

How many PC OS options did we have? I remember someone here on CrackBerry sorta said we'd might only end up with one or two Mobile OS. At that Point I think they taught Microsoft and BlackBerry, as Google hadn't really enter the race yet and Apple was only selling phones on one Carrier....

[KAM1138]

I think it would have been nice to have four or five viable platforms.... But it wasn't to be.

How many PC OS options did we have? I remember someone here on CrackBerry sorta said we'd might only end up with one or two Mobile OS. At that Point I think they taught Microsoft and BlackBerry, as Google hadn't really enter the race yet and Apple was only selling phones on one Carrier....

Well, I guess it's even worse with things like Video Tapes and DVDs. Basically those collapse to one format.

In that, it's due to content Software (movies in the example above). The internet went towards universality (websites that could run on many platforms) backwards towards non-universality (apps for a given platform).

Well...now that I think about it. There ARE more than 2 platforms for Web browsing. You had Netscape in the old days, which was overtaken by Internet Explorer, which is still around, but also Firefox, Safari and Chrome (and others I'm not familiar with).

So, is it platform exclusive (or limited) apps that destroys diversity in platforms?

If BB10, Android and iOS all ran the same apps universally, would that have changed things? Anyone who states "ecosystem" and "app availability" would have to agree.

[danfrancisco]

But I guess I've been grieving for a couple years now...I'm just still holding onto the casket while people are pulling my feet away.

LOL! Hey, at least you are acknowledging reality! That's a positive step!

I can feel the angst in your postings. If my work hadn't have forced me off of BB10, I would be just like you... fighting like hell for BB10's survival and battling off all the EOL doomsday naysayers.

I hope you will eventually make the jump to DroidBerry. If you do, I feel like a year from now, we'll be reading posts from you about how you've grown to love the platform and helping others un-clench their fingers from the casket.

[KAM1138]

LOL! Hey, at least you are acknowledging reality! That's a positive step!

I can feel the angst in your postings. If my work hadn't have forced me off of BB10, I would be just like you... fighting like hell for BB10's survival and battling off all the EOL doomsday naysayers.

I hope you will eventually make the jump to DroidBerry. If you do, I feel like a year from now, we'll be reading posts from you about how you've grown to love the platform and helping others un-clench their fingers from the casket.

Well, reports of my denying reality are greatly exaggerated.

I'm not FIGHTING for BB10's survival--there is literally nothing to be done, I'm just dreading it's final doom.

I appreciate your optimism, and as of now, there really are only two choices (Droidberry or iOS). Stock Android or some other Skinned Android...less palatable.

But I don't think I'll have to convince anyone else--I may be the last one.

However, I'm sure I will get used to it, and I might enjoy the Blackberry part of it. I'm just not envisioning a scenario where I enjoy communications with stock Android (or iOS) vs the Hub(+). It may be possible that someone comes up with an even better way to handle communications, but it seems most people (~85%--HAH) are satisfied with (or ignorant of other options) with the basic way of doing things.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Well, I guess it's even worse with things like Video Tapes and DVDs. Basically those collapse to one format.

In that, it's due to content Software (movies in the example above). The internet went towards universality (websites that could run on many platforms) backwards towards non-universality (apps for a given platform).

Well...now that I think about it. There ARE more than 2 platforms for Web browsing. You had Netscape in the old days, which was overtaken by Internet Explorer, which is still around, but also Firefox, Safari and Chrome (and others I'm not familiar with).

So, is it platform exclusive (or limited) apps that destroys diversity in platforms?

If BB10, Android and iOS all ran the same apps universally, would that have changed things? Anyone who states "ecosystem" and "app availability" would have to agree.

All things being equal....

But thing is even if BB10 had all the apps, it was a very buggy OS in 2013... Z10 would have still had terrible battery life. Brand would still have had a stigma. BlackBerry always took too long to develop products, thus by the time it came to market is wasn't "cutting edge" anymore. And their whole pricing system - from low level buying to retail pricing was a negative (I bet more than half of BB10 owners would have never bought if not for the greatly discounted prices). BlackBerry would never have been a major player again, but I do think that maybe enterprise sales would have been enough to keep them in the business as BB10 matured. But much like today BlackBerry users would have to accept that there is a "premium" to owning a midgrade BlackBerry device.

The company was simply not built to compete on the open market. BIS and BES had made them lazy....

And if there was room for BB10, their would have been room for Windows... which would have pushed BlackBerry out of enterprise eventually - even if Apple and Android didn't. As great as BB10 was, BlackBerry was simply too small to compete against the giants.

[KAM1138]

All things being equal....

But thing is even if BB10 had all the apps, it was a very buggy OS in 2013... Z10 would have still had terrible battery life. Brand would still have had a stigma. BlackBerry always took too long to develop products, thus by the time it came to market is wasn't "cutting edge" anymore. And their whole pricing system - from low level buying to retail pricing was a negative (I bet more than half of BB10 owners would have never bought if not for the greatly discounted prices). BlackBerry would never have been a major player again, but I do think that maybe enterprise sales would have been enough to keep them in the business as BB10 matured. But much like today BlackBerry users would have to accept that there is a "premium" to owning a midgrade BlackBerry device.

The company was simply not built to compete on the open market. BIS and BES had made them lazy....

And if there was room for BB10, their would have been room for Windows... which would have pushed BlackBerry out of enterprise eventually - even if Apple and Android didn't. As great as BB10 was, BlackBerry was simply too small to compete against the giants.

I really don't know what you're talking about (not because I'm saying your wrong, but just because it wasn't my experience), because my Z10 had few issues to speak of. Battery life was a bit low at the very outset and then stabilized and was fine. FAR superior to my DTEK50 (which was a miserable failure--must have been flawed how bad mine was).

BB10 did improve over time, but it was never "buggy" in my use, and certainly not compared to other phones at the time. But that was just my personal use, so others might have been doing other things that were.

BB surely did take a long time to get things to market, but in terms of "cutting edge." Well, BB10 STILL seems "cutting edge" to me compared to Android--at least out of the box, and in regards to UI. With equal third party options, I'm not sure why it wouldn't be even better.

Pricing...can't argue that. And of course there was the internal BB issue--people that didn't want to switch from BBOS to BB10.

Good point about Windows, but again, I'm not sure that a more diverse market (meaning no juggernauts) wouldn't have benefited Blackberry. Hard to say.

As far as paying a Premium to own a "midgrade" phone. Well, is that true? Let's take the Passport SE, which was what...$600? Was that really out of line with other premium phones of that era? It certainly isn't high price now, where phones are pushing $1000. The Passport was excellent, and I think it's hard to argue that--given that it's still running quite well (hardware wise) for a few of us.

No doubt Blackberry made many missteps beyond losing App support, but I think they might have been able to remain at least a Niche player.
But maybe not. When your brand is a punchline and that goes unanswered, and your marketing (what there was) flops...

Ah well, it was a fun time for me at least. I really enjoyed those earlier days of Phones--WebOS, and then landing with Blackberry, and all the potential it SEEMED to have at the time.

This is a different Subject, and perhaps there were hurdles they couldn't get past, but it seems to me that they should have released BB10 on the Playbook and had a bunch of people testing for them, and had a highly tuned release of the Z10/Q10.

Now I need a drink...

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

This is a different Subject, and perhaps there were hurdles they couldn't get past, but it seems to me that they should have released BB10 on the Playbook and had a bunch of people testing for them, and had a highly tuned release of the Z10/Q10.

Now I need a drink...

I agree, they should have used those PlayBook owners that were willing to test BB10.

Could have used them for two years to provide feedback.... and probable have figured out sooner that 1GB wasn't going to work.

[KAM1138]

I agree, they should have used those PlayBook owners that were willing to test BB10.

Could have used them for two years to provide feedback.... and probable have figured out sooner that 1GB wasn't going to work.

I am guessing that there would have been a high percentage of Playbook users that would have been willing to test. I would have.

[conite]

I agree, they should have used those PlayBook owners that were willing to test BB10.

Could have used them for two years to provide feedback.... and probable have figured out sooner that 1GB wasn't going to work.

Playbook OS was basically a BB10 beta. All the big pieces were the same.

[coffee-turtle]

BB10 was great! The big problem is that there is no development for BB10. If there was active, current development of it, I'm sure it could fill in the missing gaps. But now Android has matured and BB10 (though it was a secret to most how advanced of an OS it really was especially with the user experience) has fallen behind in some ways.

[KAM1138]

Playbook OS was basically a BB10 beta. All the big pieces were the same.

Well, you know what they say--the Devil is in the details.

[KAM1138]

BB10 was great! The big problem is that there is no development for BB10. If there was active, current development of it, I'm sure it could fill in the missing gaps. But now Android has matured and BB10 (though it was a secret to most how advanced of an OS it really was especially with the user experience) has fallen behind in some ways.

Well, everyone here will tel you--BB10 Development isn't only dead--it's vaporized and buried to never be spoken of again.

I think BB10 was a better product, and failed for many reasons, but it wasn't because the core product was inferior.

But even though I like BB10, it hasn't been developed for a long time and it is and will show its age. I do think it's a testament to how good it was that years later (which is a long time in Tech), phones like the Passport SE are still really good devices, but day by day...that will erode.

[coffee-turtle]

Well, everyone here will tel you--BB10 Development isn't only dead--it's vaporized and buried to never be spoken of again. ...

Dag...

[KAM1138]

Dag...

I wish it weren't.

[Thud Hardsmack]

I think that’s a fair assessment. I used BBOS for a relatively short time, so perhaps I didn’t become entrenched. I will admit I am pretty entrenched in BB10.

A lot of what I’m hearing is that one can tinker around with Android and get it to work for them. That seems like me having to do a lot of work to get a tool to function which seems opposite of what a tool should do for me, which is to make things easier—to provide me benefits rather than me having to service it.

Having to tinker was simultaneously what prompted my move to Android as well as facilitated it. Had I merely been using BB10 for messaging it would have probably been fine; however, I found myself more and more relying on apps from Amazon and the Google Play Store, to the point where the Play Store apps ran better but required some tinkering to install and maintain. Using Android apps on BB10 is also most likely why I have difficulty with any claims about the UI being "messy".

I tinkered with BBOS as well - tools are great. They're even better with personal improvements.

[KAM1138]

Having to tinker was simultaneously what prompted my move to Android as well as facilitated it. Had I merely been using BB10 for messaging it would have probably been fine; however, I found myself more and more relying on apps from Amazon and the Google Play Store, to the point where the Play Store apps ran better but required some tinkering to install and maintain. Using Android apps on BB10 is also most likely why I have difficulty with any claims about the UI being "messy".

I tinkered with BBOS as well - tools are great. They're even better with personal improvements.

Every time I get a new phone I get really excited about customizing it, and really making it fit me like a glove. It just never works out quite that well.

I use very few Apps on BB10, nor do I feel the need to, so my experience is different.

I can see the appeal of being able to tinker and customize. It's cool. But I don't feel like sifting through the chaff at this point.

[Thud Hardsmack]

Every time I get a new phone I get really excited about customizing it, and really making it fit me like a glove. It just never works out quite that well.

I use very few Apps on BB10, nor do I feel the need to, so my experience is different.

I can see the appeal of being able to tinker and customize. It's cool. But I don't feel like sifting through the chaff at this point.

BlackBerry has you covered when you decide to switch; they ship a nearly stock Android with very few alterations - they made some adjustments to the bootloader, and provide their own launcher plus the Hub, and that's it. Other end of the spectrum is Samsung, and LG a close second.