06-20-21 06:01 AM
43 12
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  1. skyscout's Avatar
    I have enjoyed the PASSPORT since 2015.
    It's my understanding that 10 OS service will be terminated on January 4, 2021.
    It's my understanding that Onward Mobility will be introducing a new Android BB some time in 2021 - but no "date" has been announced.
    For the interim, I must decide which phone to purchase and use.
    My carrier is AT&T [in California].
    I have looked at the Samsung 20 with all the bells and whistles - but too expensive for short-term use.
    I see that KEY2 phones are still available in the marketplace (along with the other BB Androids).

    I thought that with the manufacturer of the current BB Androids no longer in production that buying any of the existing BB Androids might not be most prudent choice.

    QUESTION: If I do purchase a KEY2, will I be able to use it confidently at this time ... until the OnwardMobillity new phone is released?
    I've read many posts over the last year that the reliability of the KEY2, its programing updates, may be at issue.

    I would appreciate your thoughts and recommendations ...
    Thank you.
    12-31-20 04:00 AM
  2. Fsl khan's Avatar
    BlackBerry terminating services 4 Jan 2022 so enjoy one more year.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Passport SE
    12-31-20 04:35 AM
  3. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    BlackBerry terminating services 4 Jan 2022 so enjoy one more year.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Passport SE
    TMO and VZW cutting 3G support in Feb 2021, AT&T cutting 3G support in Feb 2022 so actually depends on USA carrier. The OP has AT&T so OP should be ok until Feb 2022 approximately.
    12-31-20 06:14 AM
  4. the_boon's Avatar
    I have enjoyed the PASSPORT since 2015.
    It's my understanding that 10 OS service will be terminated on January 4, 2021.
    It's my understanding that Onward Mobility will be introducing a new Android BB some time in 2021 - but no "date" has been announced.
    For the interim, I must decide which phone to purchase and use.
    My carrier is AT&T [in California].
    I have looked at the Samsung 20 with all the bells and whistles - but too expensive for short-term use.
    I see that KEY2 phones are still available in the marketplace (along with the other BB Androids).

    I thought that with the manufacturer of the current BB Androids no longer in production that buying any of the existing BB Androids might not be most prudent choice.

    QUESTION: If I do purchase a KEY2, will I be able to use it confidently at this time ... until the OnwardMobillity new phone is released?
    I've read many posts over the last year that the reliability of the KEY2, its programing updates, may be at issue.

    I would appreciate your thoughts and recommendations ...
    Thank you.
    If you're okay running a KEY2 or LE for about half a year whose security patches ended in late 2020 (November/December) then yeah they're still solid options if you want a keyboard.

    I guess you could also keep using the Passport for a few more months of you switch to AT&T since it seems that they'll be the only ones in the US still keeping 3G around in 2021.
    12-31-20 08:03 AM
  5. ppeters914's Avatar
    Guess I missed the memo, but BB10 devices require 3G?
    12-31-20 11:26 AM
  6. conite's Avatar
    Guess I missed the memo, but BB10 devices require 3G?
    For calls, yes.
    12-31-20 11:33 AM
  7. saint300's Avatar
    BB10 devices also support 4G, so at least outside of the US there's no problem regarding calls and other stuff...for now.
    12-31-20 12:10 PM
  8. conite's Avatar
    BB10 devices also support 4G, so at least outside of the US there's no problem regarding calls and other stuff...for now.
    For data yes. Not for calls. BB10 uses gsm (3G) for calls.
    Last edited by conite; 12-31-20 at 12:42 PM.
    12-31-20 12:13 PM
  9. saint300's Avatar
    For data yes. Not for calls. BB10 uses gsm for calls.
    GSM is good in Europe until 2022 at least....and beyond...
    12-31-20 12:41 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    BB10 devices also support 4G, so at least outside of the US there's no problem regarding calls and other stuff...for now.
    Unfortunately, it’s not a USA thing since BB10 uses 3G GSM for voice and LTE for data only. I haven’t been able to find any documentation that any BB10 device has VoLTE capabilities. The 4G or LTE you are seeing is data only.

    One nasty trick AT&T did then and now is mislabel the service connection. It labled a newer higher speed 3G backhaul (4G HSPA) and newer higher speed 4G LTE (5GE) to make people think 4G and 5G when you really had just 3G and 4G service now and then.

    I don’t think AT&T was the only GSM carrier to do this back then. I’m suspicious that some of your 4G hopes are really faux g as it’s called. However, even on true LTE, I don’t believe any BB10 devices have Vo part of the LTE components.
    12-31-20 12:47 PM
  11. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Unfortunately, it’s not a USA thing since BB10 uses 3G GSM for voice and LTE for data only. I haven’t been able to find any documentation that any BB10 device has VoLTE capabilities. The 4G or LTE you are seeing is data only.

    One nasty trick AT&T did then and now is mislabel the service connection. It labled a newer higher speed 3G backhaul (4G HSPA) and newer higher speed 4G LTE (5GE) to make people think 4G and 5G when you really had just 3G and 4G service now and then.

    I don’t think AT&T was the only GSM carrier to do this back then. I’m suspicious that some of your 4G hopes are really faux g as it’s called. However, even on true LTE, I don’t believe any BB10 devices have Vo part of the LTE components.
    Looks like that is the case with most all pre-2015 phones.

    3G or GSM, ATT should work for another year (could be some regions or towers shutdown sooner). And other markets (countries) will have their own 3G shutdown dates - but again these too could vary depending on the need for more bandwidth and for 5G. We might not see much of a need right now.... but never know when some product becomes crucial and it requires 5G.

    But BB10 device could be fine in Africa for another decade, if the server shutdowns next year don't make them impossible to active.
    12-31-20 12:57 PM
  12. saint300's Avatar
    Unfortunately, it’s not a USA thing since BB10 uses 3G GSM for voice and LTE for data only. I haven’t been able to find any documentation that any BB10 device has VoLTE capabilities. The 4G or LTE you are seeing is data only.

    One nasty trick AT&T did then and now is mislabel the service connection. It labled a newer higher speed 3G backhaul (4G HSPA) and newer higher speed 4G LTE (5GE) to make people think 4G and 5G when you really had just 3G and 4G service now and then.

    I don’t think AT&T was the only GSM carrier to do this back then. I’m suspicious that some of your 4G hopes are really faux g as it’s called. However, even on true LTE, I don’t believe any BB10 devices have Vo part of the LTE components.
    Well, this is somehow quite technical to me, so all I can say it remains to be seen.
    12-31-20 01:03 PM
  13. ppeters914's Avatar
    Well, ****. Guess I should've sold my Torch 9800 and Z10 (both AT&T) when they worth a few dollars. Probably not worth the effort to box up now.
    12-31-20 01:06 PM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Well, ****. Guess I should've sold my Torch 9800 and Z10 (both AT&T) when they worth a few dollars. Probably not worth the effort to box up now.
    Always hold them as collectables....
    12-31-20 01:10 PM
  15. saint300's Avatar
    But BB10 device could be fine in Africa for another decade, if the server shutdowns next year don't make them impossible to active.
    I am not in Africa, acrually I am in Greece, and 3G will be supported until the end of 2022. And again, I am not so sure that BB10 in general and PP in particular only uses 3G for calls. Instead I believe it also has 4G for calls as well.
    12-31-20 01:16 PM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Well, ****. Guess I should've sold my Torch 9800 and Z10 (both AT&T) when they worth a few dollars. Probably not worth the effort to box up now.
    Coffee Table WiFi only hobbyist devices......
    12-31-20 01:18 PM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I am not in Africa, acrually I am in Greece, and 3G will be supported until the end of 2022. And again, I am not so sure that BB10 in general and PP in particular only uses 3G for calls. Instead I believe it also has 4G for calls as well.
    Uhhh, both are technically in proximity of the Mediterranean however Africa is a pretty large continent.

    The 4G signal as it pertains to calls would only be the HSPA portal of GSM which is not LTE but 3G enhanced back haul. It’s also why so many different versions of BB10 devices are compatible across the USA carriers since VoLTE technically fixes some obstacles.

    You’re on GSM for calls until 3G shuts down. You’re fine on 4G LTE for data for much longer. You just lose phone calls.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_over_LTE

    https://www.4g.co.uk/what-is-volte/
    rarsen likes this.
    12-31-20 01:25 PM
  18. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I am not in Africa, acrually I am in Greece, and 3G will be supported until the end of 2022. And again, I am not so sure that BB10 in general and PP in particular only uses 3G for calls. Instead I believe it also has 4G for calls as well.
    Well if the PP does.... some users here in NA will soon know.
    12-31-20 01:38 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    I am not in Africa, acrually I am in Greece, and 3G will be supported until the end of 2022. And again, I am not so sure that BB10 in general and PP in particular only uses 3G for calls. Instead I believe it also has 4G for calls as well.
    BB10 does not use VoLTE for calls.
    12-31-20 01:41 PM
  20. pdr733's Avatar
    BB10 devices also support 4G, so at least outside of the US there's no problem regarding calls and other stuff...for now.
    Well I have gathered the following on my own country - small EU member state - : 2G is going to stay for half a decade at least (for example, the local Vodafone said that they plan to shut it down around 2028), but 3G actually will be shutdown much earlier. Here there is no fixed target date set (yet), one carrier already started to switch off / repurpose 3G cells and will continue it in the next 2 years or so. From the other two, potential shutdown year seems to be 2023 or 2024.
    If I remember corretly you are from Greece, I assume you can look this up in the local press or local tech forums.
    What is certain that after 3G shutdown, devices that dont support VoLTE AND the carrier"s own implementation of VoLTE, will not be able to make calls on 4G, only on 2G (this fallback option doesnt exist any more in the USA as 2G has been shut down earlier than 3G)

    The whole compatibility thing is not only because business reasons (forcing you to sell more phones), sometimes the carrier's own VoLTE implementation make the phone incompatible, or b/c the phone manufacturers did not put the necessary software profiles in the phone's firmware - and being X year old, the phone is not supported anymore.
    Here in this country for example, rollout of VoLTE is complicated by the fact that 2 carriers have junk Chinese backbone equipment for LTE (Huawei and ZTE, respectively). Unlocked phones which work on the third carrier (which has Ericsson) may not work on the 2 others, sometimes, even those 2 carriers own carrier locked phones have problems with VoLTE (this is the funniest)

    So all in all, you cannot count on having your BB10 phone support VoLTE, whatever the spec sheet says, unless and until your carrier said so.
    12-31-20 02:06 PM
  21. saint300's Avatar
    Well I have gathered the following on my own country - small EU member state - : 2G is going to stay for half a decade at least (for example, the local Vodafone said that they plan to shut it down around 2028), but 3G actually will be shutdown much earlier. Here there is no fixed target date set (yet), one carrier already started to switch off / repurpose 3G cells and will continue it in the next 2 years or so. From the other two, potential shutdown year seems to be 2023 or 2024.
    If I remember corretly you are from Greece, I assume you can look this up in the local press or local tech forums.
    What is certain that after 3G shutdown, devices that dont support VoLTE AND the carrier"s own implementation of VoLTE, will not be able to make calls on 4G, only on 2G (this fallback option doesnt exist any more in the USA as 2G has been shut down earlier than 3G)

    The whole compatibility thing is not only because business reasons (forcing you to sell more phones), sometimes the carrier's own VoLTE implementation make the phone incompatible, or b/c the phone manufacturers did not put the necessary software profiles in the phone's firmware - and being X year old, the phone is not supported anymore.
    Here in this country for example, rollout of VoLTE is complicated by the fact that 2 carriers have junk Chinese backbone equipment for LTE (Huawei and ZTE, respectively). Unlocked phones which work on the third carrier (which has Ericsson) may not work on the 2 others, sometimes, even those 2 carriers own carrier locked phones have problems with VoLTE (this is the funniest)

    So all in all, you cannot count on having your BB10 phone support VoLTE, whatever the spec sheet says, unless and until your carrier said so.
    Thing is that Vodafone Greece has already announced that 3G services will be terminated at the end of 2022, which at the same time will provide more bandwith (their exact words) to 4G/LTE whilke at the same time retaining 2G in the future.

    Now, I have checked time and again Passport's data and I can say it does support 4G/LTE as well as 2G (and 3G obviously). So, you guys tell me where I am wrong here; because I don't think I am.
    12-31-20 02:20 PM
  22. pdr733's Avatar
    Thing is that Vodafone Greece has already announced that 3G services will be terminated at the end of 2022, which at the same time will provide more bandwith (their exact words) to 4G/LTE whilke at the same time retaining 2G in the future.

    Now, I have checked time and again Passport's data and I can say it does support 4G/LTE as well as 2G (and 3G obviously). So, you guys tell me where I am wrong here; because I don't think I am.
    In this case your Passport will be able to make calls on 2G after 3G shutdown until 2G exists on your carrier (judging from the local Vodafone's policy, it will be quite a while there aswell). However, unless and until they tell you that VoLTE can be activated on your phone, it will not support it (in practice that means that on VoLTE call/voice quality is better than on 2G)
    I dont own a BB10 phone, so I dont know if it supports VoLTE according to its spec sheet. But unfortunately, in case of VoLTE, what counts whether or not the carrier supports/activates the given phone for that capability, not what the phone can do on paper.
    12-31-20 02:30 PM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Thing is that Vodafone Greece has already announced that 3G services will be terminated at the end of 2022, which at the same time will provide more bandwith (their exact words) to 4G/LTE whilke at the same time retaining 2G in the future.

    Now, I have checked time and again Passport's data and I can say it does support 4G/LTE as well as 2G (and 3G obviously). So, you guys tell me where I am wrong here; because I don't think I am.
    4G/LTE is NOT the same thing as VoLTE.
    12-31-20 02:45 PM
  24. saint300's Avatar
    4G/LTE is NOT the same thing as VoLTE.
    OK....what is it then? And how does it precisely affect full use of BB10 devices?
    12-31-20 02:47 PM
  25. conite's Avatar
    OK....what is it then? And how does it precisely affect full use of BB10 devices?
    Voice Over LTE, is a method that newer (usually specifically whitelisted) phones use to carry voice over the 4G data network. BB10, while fully compatible with 4G for data, carries voice over 3G.
    12-31-20 02:49 PM
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