[Oscar_E]

iphone 6 selling at US $1,350 in my country, i think US $600 dollars for a beast like the passport is very apropiate !

[NYC10065]

To all those who think that 599 US is too much... go look up the word "margin"... as this is a business BB is trying to run... the lower the margin.. the less profit per device... the more they need to sell to be successful right now... A big issue they face currently... if you think 599 is too much .. let them sell all thier devices at close to cost... and have no handset business in a year or two... then what will they talk about????? vI do think sometimes people think BB simply grows these things on trees at little or no cost.....

I agree entirely but if you price it at the point where you only sell a handful of units, then what's the point? Let's not forget the Z10 which was the most aggressively marketed BBRY in recent memory. It didn't sell at any price and BBRY simply wrote them down to nothing and had inventory to spare.

[DaedalusIcarusHelios]

I think $599 is a great price. It's not as expensive at it could be, and is very reasonable for a high-end flagship. They should also still be able to make some money on this. I think they'll sell out at this price. Pretty much all to BB fans or corporations. I don't anticipate they are building a huge number of these devices either. They'll "sell out" to get good press and manage their inventory better and just build more as demanded.

If the price is lower, it will only hurt BB, since it lowers their margin and lowering it won't gain them any appreciable sales. Especially in the consumer market, which will reject it due to it's odd shape, the BlackBerry brand itself, or the "ecosystem" argument.

[Thunderbuck]

I agree entirely but if you price it at the point where you only sell a handful of units, then what's the point? Let's not forget the Z10 which was the most aggressively marketed BBRY in recent memory. It didn't sell at any price and BBRY simply wrote them down to nothing and had inventory to spare.

You make a great point, and BlackBerry has had a horrible history of mis-pricing new devices. Pricing the PlayBook dollar-for-dollar with the iPad 2 may be the biggest, most spectacular mistake the company made. And I'll agree that the Z10's pricing likely harmed it more than just about anything else.

$599 for the Passport, though? Given that it's got the most current spec I've seen on a BlackBerry, and that its novel form-factor might just start a fad that will drive demand, that doesn't seem out of line. And sales expectations for the Passport are VERY conservative at this point.

The price I'll be paying more attention to as a shareholder will be that of the Z20. That's a volume model that DOES need aggressive pricing to succeed.

[LordPiggyOfHam]

I think $599 is a fair price. I got the BlackBerry Z30 in August because my old phone was on its last legs and I wanted a full touch screen device. That being said I do have two cell phone lines (BlackBerry's virtual dual SIM tech will be useful) so I will take a serious look at the BlackBerry Passport in terms of upgrading sooner rather than later since the price is favourable.

Posted via CB10

[vinniesworld]

Take a look at Microsoft... Each and every time they sell a Windows OS there are huge queues to that the size of when Apple release a device.
Microsoft however make their money from licencing, they make no money by selling the Microsoft Surface and the money they do make is very minimal to that of covering the price of the hardware manufacturing.

BlackBerry make the little money they do from the Enterprise market, they don't make money from hardware and quite frankly never ever said they do. In fact for the most part they have to subsidise it themselves and take a hit in the pocket. BlackBerry are not trying to compete with anyone in the mobile market, this is why they have not jumped on the bandwagon and produced the same handsets time and time again just because they sell. This may have been the case of old but the Passport is a different device.

Apple NEED to sell hardware and need to sell it hard which is why they have an unlimited budget for marketing. They do this very well indeed and can make a turd appear like it's covered in 24ct gold.
Samsung also have an unlimited marketing budget in their Mobile division and also sell hard but unlike Apple Samsung Corp do have other divisions and don't have to rely solely on their mobile and electronic divisions.

Also take HTC, they run in the red year in year out but they still produce mobile phones that sell, not well but they sell.

Do you maximise the device or maximise your profit margins. If I took the iPhone 6 and rebranded it as 'Parsnip - With a carrot logo on the back' would it still sell as well without the 'Apple' logo even though it's the exact same phone like for like? That's what we need to consider.

[DaedalusIcarusHelios]

The iPhone 6 and 6-Plus sold 10 million units on its first weekend of sales. BBRY has never seen numbers like that.

Um, no one has seen numbers like that before. That doesn't mean BB should sell their phones at a loss because you deem their proportional sales and market share justifies it. BB will profit from the Passport, and that's what matters (regardless of how few devices they move).

[Nugzie]

You can't happy trolls!

Posted via CB10

^^^^THIS!^^^^

Posted via CB10

[ubizmo]

A minor difference like $50 CAD may sway some people on the fence. The problem is however that when they realize how weak the ecosystem is they will see the $50 CAD savings as not having justified the lack of ecosystem. These fence sitters will then turn into disgruntled buyers who will very likely turn into BlackBerry bashers. This will be worse for BlackBerry in the long term than ensuring that they priced the device $100 CAD below competition. The same individuals in my example above will (even if unhappy with the ecosystem), still go back and say that "for $100 CAD less, the phone is excellent value, despite the lack of apps". This will be tremendous for the perception of BlackBerry.

I disagree here. Those who are dissatisfied with the ecosystem are likely, in my view, to bash BlackBerry at any price point. The Passport is a high-end phone in terms of hardware, with a weak ecosystem. The $600 price reflects that. Compared to other high-end hardware with strong ecosystems, it's a discount price. That discount is an acknowledgment of the weak ecosystem and the tarnished brand, without being an admission of self-loathing.

If BlackBerry controls inventory, they'll move enough of these to make money at this price point, without having to resort to massive write-downs. And that's the main thing they need to do right now: Release a device that makes money. And show they can innovate. It doesn't have to be a home run.

Rinse and repeat in a few months with the Classic. Again, no home run attempted or expected. Just harvest the money of the people waiting for a retro BB10 experience. Properly executed, that should be two profitable launches in a single quarter (pretty much), and BlackBerry is no longer seen as circling the drain. That's the thing they have to stop. That's what "success" looks like at this point.

[dejanh]

I disagree here. Those who are dissatisfied with the ecosystem are likely, in my view, to bash BlackBerry at any price point. The Passport is a high-end phone in terms of hardware, with a weak ecosystem. The $600 price reflects that. Compared to other high-end hardware with strong ecosystems, it's a discount price. That discount is an acknowledgment of the weak ecosystem and the tarnished brand, without being an admission of self-loathing.

If BlackBerry controls inventory, they'll move enough of these to make money at this price point, without having to resort to massive write-downs. And that's the main thing they need to do right now: Release a device that makes money. And show they can innovate. It doesn't have to be a home run.

Rinse and repeat in a few months with the Classic. Again, no home run attempted or expected. Just harvest the money of the people waiting for a retro BB10 experience. Properly executed, that should be two profitable launches in a single quarter (pretty much), and BlackBerry is no longer seen as circling the drain. That's the thing they have to stop. That's what "success" looks like at this point.

While I do think that you somewhat missed the point of my post, I do agree with your overall statement. The point is to be able to deliver a successful launch and a successful device. The success isn't expected to look like that of Apple. Let's hope $50 discount does that.

Posted via CB10

[lawguyman]

By Chen's admission, the price was set to help drive demand. Will this price drive demand?

I think the goal is to sell as many s possible while still making money. Profit for profits sake is not the only point.


Posted via CB10

[undone]

Its only a good price if it sells and BB makes a profit. As long as both conditions are met its a good price.

[Mirk]

@MIRK, I dont agree with you and def people would not complain if the phone was $199, that's just a ridiculous comment. I understand "WE", including me, are a bit biased in our opinions because we truly stand behind blackberry and know how great the phones are. But when dealing with things like this you must understand "WE" are the minority and not the majority. The majority does not look twice at bb phones, the majority makes fun of bb phones and the majority will not buy bb phones because they believe they are over priced and for "X" amount more $ they can get they're iPhones. When pricing the phones now they have to be priced at what the majority would think is reasonable and not us bb fans. Sorry to say but even at this price people will feel it is over priced. Maybe not me and you, but everyone else who bb is trying to bring to their platform...

Actually, simple economics would dictate that yes, even if the phone was $199 some people, albeit very few, would still find it to be not worth the money. But, that was kind of beside the point, the point was to over exaggerate the complaint to illustrate how ridiculous I really thought it was. There will always be people how think something is too expensive and who think the same thing is a good deal. Personally, I think the phone is a good deal at $599 and would honestly expect something in the $700-$800 range. But as Chen himself apparently said "to try to get the market interested, we're going to start a little lower."

So, we get basically what we had asked for (http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...sively-956470/) and there is still another thread about how it should be even cheaper. You can't have your cake and eat it too I say...

[marvini]

It's for businessmen and executives. You want a cheaper phone? Get the Z3.

Posted via CB10

[wincyUt]

If you consider the lack of ecosystem, yes $599 is too much

What is the darn ecosystem you are yapping about? SMH. Show me one person on another platform that can get more done than someone on a BB10 device (who really knows how to fully utilize the BB functions)? If the this ecosystem shenanigan is such a big deal then don't use or buy BB10 phones.

[wincyUt]

$599 is a real bargain, except for those who want it for free. And even if BlackBerry gave them the Passport for free, they will still complain. OLIVER TWISTs!!

[lang007]

Well said

$599 is a real bargain, except for those who want it for free. And even if BlackBerry gave them the Passport for free, they will still complain. OLIVER TWISTs!!

[ShaneVich1]

599 is good compared to Flagship iOS devices and Android specs monsters. The iPhone 6 Plus is going for $750 -$1000 outright as of right now. The Galaxy s5 is still $650. $599 is a decent price in comparison.

Posted via CB10

[Adam Fox2]

For a modern smartphone, the price is actually cheap. Look at the price of an S5, iPhone 6 (6 Plus is even higher), HTC M8, etc. They start at $650. I wonder what carriers are getting this phone and what the subsidized price would be. I would buy one out-right if I had the money

[DJM626]

Nope it think it is perfect for a device of its caliber and capabilities

Posted via CB10

[BroncoVAL]

I'll be honest...
First of all, i live in Europe so 599$ are 470 Euro and it's an amazing price for the specs and screen estate of the Passport!
But if they were to price it 599 Euro (like i have seen on Mediamarkt) then it would be 770$.
1- That would totally destroy Mr. Chen allegation that he could price it at 700$ but prefers to make a very aggressive price tag.
2- I would be very curious to see how you can legitimate a +29% in so called taxes (when Euro/$ change should still be in benefit of Europeans customers...)
Let's see if Mediamarkt was right, maybe it will be priced at 500-549Euro (that i could accept, but 599Euro/770$ instead of 599$ is really very difficult to swallow)

[MrGlenn]

Does the $599 price include vat?
Regardless, 599 Euro would be ~499 Euro pre-tax. Tax is not something BlackBerry has influence on.

So consider the alternative of importing one from the US:
Base cost US model 466 Euro (if vat included) + 21% European tax = 563 Euro. Then you would have to pay import/customs fees as well, which would make it at least 599 Euro anyway.

BlackBerry 10 signed @ C0007CC89

[wincyUt]

I'll be honest...
First of all, i live in Europe so 599$ are 470 Euro and it's an amazing price for the specs and screen estate of the Passport!
But if they were to price it 599 Euro (like i have seen on Mediamarkt) then it would be 770$.
1- That would totally destroy Mr. Chen allegation that he could price it at 700$ but prefers to make a very aggressive price tag.
2- I would be very curious to see how you can legitimate a +29% in so called taxes (when Euro/$ change should still be in benefit of Europeans customers...)
Let's see if Mediamarkt was right, maybe it will be priced at 500-549Euro (that i could accept, but 599Euro/770$ instead of 599$ is really very difficult to swallow)

Just curious, does John Chen have any control or influence over how much taxes countries levy? Maybe you should direct your questions to your government officials.

[BroncoVAL]

Does the $599 price include vat?
Regardless, 599 Euro would be ~499 Euro pre-tax. Tax is not something BlackBerry has influence on.

So consider the alternative of importing one from the US:
Base cost US model 466 Euro (if vat included) + 21% European tax = 563 Euro. Then you would have to pay import/customs fees as well, which would make it at least 599 Euro anyway.

BlackBerry 10 signed @ C0007CC89

you're right, almost right: 470Euro +20%= 564Euro.
But then again what about Mr. Chen allegation that the Passport could be priced at 700$... if it ends up costing 770$ ?

[BroncoVAL]

Just curious, does John Chen have any control or influence over how much taxes countries levy? Maybe you should direct your questions to your government officials.

you're right too but they wouldn't care...
in France you pay for anything, they made up a tax on digital supports (sd cards for example that makes prices up with no real good reason... "anti piracy" "copyright tax" and other B.S. they say...)
I was just disappointed about Chen's allegation (he could price it 700$ but prefers a 599$ tag price) when it ends up costing 770$...
and no, there's no such thing as 29% tax (20% in France, 21% in Italy)