09-26-17 06:19 PM
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  1. app_Developer's Avatar
    I'm familiar with this old story and laundry list of excuses why they couldn't, didn't or other. Don't really care much, my point was they went through the trouble of making the update so they should have updated the browser completely.
    The mic I dropped was by choosing to buy a Oneplus 3T

    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b6719249fd.jpg
    So you don't care if it was possible, you just wanted it anyway? Is that basically it?
    09-17-17 11:28 AM
  2. app_Developer's Avatar
    I'm familiar with this old story and laundry list of excuses why they couldn't, didn't or other. Don't really care much, my point was they went through the trouble of making the update so they should have updated the browser completely.
    The mic I dropped was by choosing to buy a Oneplus 3T

    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b6719249fd.jpg
    So you don't care if it was possible, you just wanted it anyway? Is that basically it?
    09-17-17 11:29 AM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I'm familiar with this old story and laundry list of excuses why they couldn't, didn't or other. Don't really care much, my point was they went through the trouble of making the update so they should have updated the browser completely.
    That's like hiring a guy to replace the drywall on a wall of your living room and then complaining "well, you were already here doing work - why didn't you build an entire addition to my house too? And don't give me any excuses about that being a much bigger job with far more costs - I won't want to hear it."

    The update was a SECURITY update - a minor sub-point release. There was no one left at the company who did significant BB10 browser development, and that would have been a much larger and much more expensive project. But, again, you don't want to hear excuses.
    09-17-17 11:41 AM
  4. The_Passporter's Avatar
    So you don't care if it was possible, you just wanted it anyway? Is that basically it?
    I think you finally hit the nail on the head.
    09-17-17 11:50 AM
  5. The_Passporter's Avatar
    That's like hiring a guy to replace the drywall on a wall of your living room and then complaining "well, you were already here doing work - why didn't you build an entire addition to my house too? And don't give me any excuses about that being a much bigger job with far more costs - I won't want to hear it."

    The update was a SECURITY update - a minor sub-point release. There was no one left at the company who did significant BB10 browser development, and that would have been a much larger and much more expensive project. But, again, you don't want to hear excuses.
    I don't work for Blackberry nor do I own shares. I really don't care as I stated before that their problems are their own and and I as a consumer expect a certain level of accountability.

    When JC said there will be two more updates we as consumers assume there is a certain amount of life and loyalty to be expected.

    Love your analogies though. Make up some more, they are a good read.
    09-17-17 11:52 AM
  6. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    The BB10 developers were all laid off more than 3 years ago, aside from a literal few who work on security patches. ...
    ... was costing the company hundreds of millions of dollars every quarter in net losses. BB is not a charity (despite effectively subsidizing every single BB10 phone sold by over $100 each), and could not continue sustaining those losses forever. Chen cut the cord in spring of 2014 and closed down the division in order to stave off those massive losses and allow the rest of the company to survive (which it almost didn't).

    Everyone posting here about BB10 should know this, and if you knew that anyway and still bought BB10 devices, well, you shouldn't be at all surprised that they were abandoned. BB had no other choice that would have allowed the company to still be in business, and Chen wasn't going to sink the entire ship just to make a few BB10 holdouts slightly happier.

    Use BB10 as long as it works for you, but don't imagine you are owed any further support. BB10 died the day all those developers got pink slips back in May of 2014. Being hooked up to a life support machine that pumps blood through the dead corpse isn't "life" - but that's where BB10 is today.
    Love to know where you got the$100 subsidy figure from...is that just picked out of the sky or did some genius outside the company deftly determine this number?....and subsidy is a loaded term...what were expenses, marketing costs? salary&bonuses? other projects inhouse etc...) .......also I doubt that includes the overcharging that Qualcomm was engaged in all these years to whom BlackBerry rec'd a YUGE settlement just this year. Someone suggested BB would have been profitable or nearly without the Qualcomm noose...and the drummed up and excessively exaggerated rumours from the chattering tech classes (Apple's SJWs? maybe?) that BlackBerry's were "outdated" and "useless" was all nonsence. Even before bb10 was dropped onto the market --- which scared off consumers....yes even at some retailers...BEst Buy etc....reading all the American review sites and listening to retail salespeople would have scared me off a Blackberry, if I didnt ignore them....this is the age of the awareness of fake media to the masses after all....and found the BB10 operating system superior to Apples and Google/Android's for usability (yes I used them too, but didn't enjoy the experience). Browser problems? BB10 had the best in class browser by far at the time and maybe its just average now. Probs go away when you flush the cookies, in my experience. A browser upgrade might be nice, not sure which html standards enhancements make this necessary though.

    Still say though, subscription paid maintenance upgrade for BB10 (nothing YUGE) is the way to go to keep it alive (and pay the salary of a small staff) or some other near arrangement through BlackBerry World ....until the hardware is actually obsolete.

    Some people lease cars for 3 years, and some people buy cars for 7 or longer (but they know they have to pay for maintenance when they keep it that long).
    09-17-17 12:08 PM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    When JC said there will be two more updates we as consumers assume there is a certain amount of life and loyalty to be expected.
    Individuals can be loyal. Companies are only "loyal" to what will make them a profit. Being "loyal" to BB10 cost the company billions of dollars, which is why Mike, Jim, and Thor were fired and Chen hired. BB had been on the brink of bankruptcy since 2013, and has only shown some signs of possible survival once Chen axed BB10 and moved towards an exit of devices entirely.

    The writing was on the wall, and has been there for a long time. If you chose to believe something else, that's on you, but the fact is that the BB10 project effectively ended in 2014, and BB's "commitment" to consumers effectively ended when they licensed their brand to other companies. BB no longer has any hardware (and, aside from a few Android apps, no products of any kind) to sell to consumers - and no "loyalty" to them. Consumers no longer have a direct relationship with BB at all. That's factual - even CBK and Bla1ze have made that clear.

    That doesn't mean you or anyone else has to stop using their BB10 devices, but c'mon, you can't really expect or believe that you are owed anything (much less that you're going to RECEIVE anything) from a company that has completely left the business that was the basis of your "relationship" with them, right?
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    09-17-17 12:09 PM
  8. The_Passporter's Avatar
    I prefer the analogy where the builder is contracted to build a house and he says he has ran out of funds and a couple guys quit on him cause he is not paying them.
    I don't care, give me my finished house! Lol
    09-17-17 12:10 PM
  9. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I prefer the analogy where the builder is contracted to build a house and he says he has ran out of funds and a couple guys quit on him cause he is not paying them.
    I don't care, give me my finished house! Lol
    Can't figure out where my house is unfinished (bb10), everything is ship-shape and the yard is nicely landscaped...though not excessive as expected...oh you mean its not earth-quake proof, and it doesn't have a 4 car garage on the second floor?....yeah but I don't live in California.
    09-17-17 12:28 PM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Love to know where you got the$100 subsidy figure from...is that just picked out of the sky or did some genius outside the company deftly determine this number?
    BB is a public company, and releases quarterly reports every quarter. Their own numbers (though not written out so overtly - some work had to be done to figure out the numbers) showed that BB was taking a loss of more than $100 per handset sold.

    But, I mean, is that a shock? In 2013 alone, there were 2 consecutive write-downs, the first for $1B for Z10 inventory, and the second for $4.4 B for the costs of BB10 in general to the company. That's not counting the $1B write-off of Playbook inventory the year before, or the losses that continued to pile up afterwards. Overall, the BB10 project (rolling the Playbook into it) netted BB a LOSS of about $9-10 billion.

    ....and subsidy is a loaded term...what were expenses, marketing costs? salary&bonuses? other projects inhouse etc...)
    "Subsidy" was MY term, but that's effectively what it was. And of COURSE it included all of the labor and marketing costs - because those are all part of the real costs that BB had to spend on BB10. That money doesn't just appear out of nowhere.

    .......also I doubt that includes the overcharging that Qualcomm was engaged in all these years to whom BlackBerry rec'd a YUGE settlement just this year. Someone suggested BB would have been profitable or nearly without the Qualcomm noose...
    Sure, you can now take $900M off of the losses, but it wouldn't have changed BB10's fate at all.

    and the drummed up and excessively exaggerated rumours from the chattering tech classes (Apple's SJWs? maybe?) that BlackBerry's were "outdated" and "useless" was all nonsence.
    It wasn't nonsense, and it wasn't rumors. It was the opinions of millions of then-current and former BBOS users - many of whom at the time were carrying a BBOS for work and an iPhone for personal use and could compare the two directly. BBOS was grossly behind the iPhone in the capabilities that most consumers cared about. You may not have cared about those things yourself, but that just means you are outside of the mainstream. They WERE the mainstream, and they voted "iPhone" and "Galaxy" with their wallets.

    Even before bb10 was dropped onto the market --- which scared off consumers....yes even at some retailers...BEst Buy etc....reading all the American review sites and listening to retail salespeople would have scared me off a Blackberry, if I didnt ignore them....
    The salespeople were just repeating what their customers were saying. The iPhone was released in 2007. BB10 wasn't released until 2013 - SIX YEARS LATER - and it was a mess until 10.2.1 was released in 2014, which was after the company had cratered. BB's reputation was killed by BB (specifically Mike) refusing to take the iPhone seriously and by holding on to BBOS for far too long.

    this is the age of the awareness of fake media to the masses after all...
    Again, millions of people who had carried BB phones for years - and knew all there was to know about them - switched - many couldn't WAIT to switch. No "fake news" stories were needed - these people had their own personal experiences to guide them.

    and found the BB10 operating system superior to Apples and Google/Android's for usability (yes I used them too, but didn't enjoy the experience).
    You're an outlier - and exception - for whom the OS mattered. For most people, what mattered was the APPS, the SERVICES, the CAMERA, the SPECS, the COST, and the screen real estate - all areas where BB was behind. BB lost billions trying to cater to a relative handful of outliers while Apple and Google and Samsung catered to the mainstream user. Unfortunately for BB, the costs of a smartphone platform are far, FAR too high to survive catering only to outliers.


    Browser problems? BB10 had the best in class browser by far at the time and maybe its just average now. Probs go away when you flush the cookies, in my experience. A browser upgrade might be nice, not sure which html standards enhancements make this necessary though.
    Your fellow BB10 users are the ones demanding a browser upgrade. There's obviously a reason for that. Note that currently the BB10 browser has the lowest HTML5 score of any major browser (though I'm not sure it's fair to call BB10's browser "major").

    Still say though, subscription paid maintenance upgrade for BB10 (nothing YUGE) is the way to go to keep it alive (and pay the salary of a small staff) or some other near arrangement through BlackBerry World ....until the hardware is actually obsolete.
    That's because you have no understanding of the costs associated with what you're asking for. If BB thought it was possible to just break even, they'd probably have done it - but it isn't even close.

    In 2014, *after* several rounds of cuts, BB still had 1700 BB10 developers to let go. It wasn't 4 dudes in a basement who made BB10, it was a huge team (over 4,000 developers alone, originally). That's half a billion a year in total costs at least (for the 1700). You'd need at least 100 just for the browser alone. No way you could find enough people willing to pay that you could come close to covering those costs.
    StephanieMaks and CrackNutRun like this.
    09-17-17 12:35 PM
  11. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I prefer the analogy where the builder is contracted to build a house and he says he has ran out of funds and a couple guys quit on him cause he is not paying them.
    I don't care, give me my finished house! Lol
    In that analogy, you'd have a contract that spelled out the contractor's obligations. Do you have such a contract from BB stating that you are owed an update? I kind of doubt it. That makes the situation quite different.
    09-17-17 12:39 PM
  12. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Can't figure out where my house is unfinished (bb10), everything is ship-shape and the yard is nicely landscaped...though not excessive as expected...oh you mean its not earth-quake proof, and it doesn't have a 4 car garage on the second floor?....yeah but I don't live in California.
    Some folks are perfectly happy living in a grass hut, or a tent. And that's fine, but it just means you are outside of the mainstream.

    Live there and be happy - just don't expect to be supported as if you were in the mainstream when you aren't.
    09-17-17 12:42 PM
  13. joeldf's Avatar
    ...It wasn't 4 dudes in a basement who made BB10, it was a huge team (over 4,000 developers alone, originally)...
    I think it's 4 dudes in a basement NOW... and only part-time in the summer at that...

    anon(8679041) likes this.
    09-17-17 01:21 PM
  14. Lincoln Allen's Avatar
    Chen is in hiding. He betrayed us loyal BB10 users. Where is the promised Os update 10.3.4..????

    Posted via CB10
    The only thing Chen promised was another KEYBOARD phone with android and that's what we got the KEYone after that it's BlackBerry Mobiles problem to deliver phones
    09-17-17 02:19 PM
  15. conite's Avatar
    When JC said there will be two more updates we as consumers assume there is a certain amount of life and loyalty to be expected.
    The statement clearly indicated that the updates would be focused on security only.
    09-17-17 02:31 PM
  16. Zeratul57's Avatar
    Which is a better weaponized OS. Android or ios?

    Sent from one of my SE Passports using BB10 superior software.
    09-17-17 03:30 PM
  17. Philip Edwards2's Avatar
    Which is a better weaponized OS. Android or ios?

    Sent from one of my SE Passports using BB10 superior software.
    I have tried them both, and they both have very different feels.

    Out of the two apples ios is much more basic in feel but works very well. Android on the other hand can be very messy, and sometime too complicated.
    09-17-17 03:36 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Android on the other hand can be very messy, and sometime too complicated.
    Which is also written as customizable and powerful.
    09-17-17 03:51 PM
  19. Philip Edwards2's Avatar
    Which is also written as customizable and powerful.
    Exactly, neither is right, and neither is wrong. It is entirely down to user preference.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    09-17-17 03:53 PM
  20. kvndoom's Avatar
    Can't figure out where my house is unfinished (bb10), everything is ship-shape and the yard is nicely landscaped...though not excessive as expected...oh you mean its not earth-quake proof, and it doesn't have a 4 car garage on the second floor?....yeah but I don't live in California.
    But when you need paint they don't make the color. And when you need shingles they don't make that kind anymore. And oh man! Aluminum wiring? Cast iron pipes? It's like no manufacturers make exact replacements for wear and tear items in your house anymore.

    You keep going to Cobalt's Hardware down the street because he sells some patch-up pieces. He still has some cans of that paint, and he has some aluminum to copper wire nuts, and a few cast to PVC fittings... but oh my if he ever goes out of business!

    But all your neighbors they just go to Lowe's because the shelves are always stocked.
    09-17-17 05:41 PM
  21. app_Developer's Avatar
    But when you need paint they don't make the color. And when you need shingles they don't make that kind anymore. And oh man! Aluminum wiring? Cast iron pipes? It's like no manufacturers make exact replacements for wear and tear items in your house anymore.

    You keep going to Cobalt's Hardware down the street because he sells some patch-up pieces. He still has some cans of that paint, and he has some aluminum to copper wire nuts, and a few cast to PVC fittings... but oh my if he ever goes out of business!

    But all your neighbors they just go to Lowe's because the shelves are always stocked.
    Best analogy ever on CB.

    Some people will make their nonstandard house work. And maybe even make their own 150V@75Hz appliances.

    Most people just want to go to Lowes.
    09-17-17 06:22 PM
  22. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    But when you need paint they don't make the color. And when you need shingles they don't make that kind anymore. And oh man! Aluminum wiring? Cast iron pipes? It's like no manufacturers make exact replacements for wear and tear items in your house anymore.

    You keep going to Cobalt's Hardware down the street because he sells some patch-up pieces. He still has some cans of that paint, and he has some aluminum to copper wire nuts, and a few cast to PVC fittings... but oh my if he ever goes out of business!

    But all your neighbors they just go to Lowe's because the shelves are always stocked.
    However did we get from building the house (bb10) , to maintenance and renovation? The Apple and Google home builders say...you want to renovate? fa-get-about-it, we will tear it down in two,three years tops and we will build you a new one.....whether you like it or not...poor Lowes, there's no place for it in the swipe up for the Home screen business.

    (ps ...remind the folks where Cobalt's and the other independent hardware maintenance and renos are)
    09-17-17 11:02 PM
  23. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Some folks are perfectly happy living in a grass hut, or a tent. And that's fine, but it just means you are outside of the mainstream.

    Live there and be happy - just don't expect to be supported as if you were in the mainstream when you aren't.
    Nope my home is quite structurally sound, secure and well engineered (just doesn't need to deal with being built on a massive fault line (monopoly line maybe - more Google than Apple, but maybe not) nothing wrong with a Grass Hut in the African Savannah though - fits the requirements of that environment reasonably well (economically). Sometimes the "mainstream" is so polluted though, that the bloated fish in those waters haven't a clue. More than one river on the planet, and they're pretty near the size of that mythical mainstream. ;-) (Support....Changing the light-bulbs when they flicker, doesn't mean rebuilding all the skyscrapers down the main street though)
    09-17-17 11:40 PM
  24. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Clarification: that bb10 was outdated...and useless... was all nonsense. The devices prior to bb10 while not terrible in themselves, were starting to lag some of the variety that Apple/Android had started to offer, I would say is true, but not to a horribly gaping extent.
    09-18-17 12:01 AM
  25. kvndoom's Avatar
    However did we get from building the house (bb10) , to maintenance and renovation? The Apple and Google home builders say...you want to renovate? fa-get-about-it, we will tear it down in two,three years tops and we will build you a new one.....whether you like it or not...poor Lowes, there's no place for it in the swipe up for the Home screen business.

    (ps ...remind the folks where Cobalt's and the other independent hardware maintenance and renos are)
    We got there because everything works new (OS) but some lack in longevity and compatibility (platform). It's laughable that what looks like 1/4 of new threads in the BB10 forum concern android apps.
    09-18-17 05:23 AM
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