[jojon2se]

this thread should be closed already but before it does and for the record the user is at fault for not reading, now mods close this thread already

Err, no.

I was going to say no more in this thread, but because you couldn't help yourself, just having to get one mean spirited last word in there, and asserting ungrounded authority... (EDIT: ...and specifically; making a point of it.)

To reiterate:

The core issue here, is that like objects are not treated alike -- this is a fundamental design flaw.

It is true that different types of things require different types of measures, suitable to their particular characteristics, but this only makes it more important to be clear, distinct, discerning, and consistent.

When every item in a list has the same actionable trashcan icon, in the same place, the UX designer should strive to keep its behaviour as close to identical, for each type of item, as possible.

It is not enough to put up a warning sign behind an open manhole cover in the pavement, when that sign has a very close likeness to to every housenumber sign you are walking past. You could move the sign to a position before the hole, and make it bright red - this is a good start, but ultimately you'd do best to put the cover back on.

"But", we see argued, "that item and that array of items (shown in form of its tail item) are presented alike, and are treated alike".

...and therein lies the basic misunderstanding: The item and the array are disparate enough classes to warrant separation; they are not like and should not be presented like - it is strongly misleading.

In this case, the array is not even truly an array: it is a collation of content, based on sender and recipient, brought up through a function initiated by tapping that misleading list entry -- it is still treated as an array, though (...and maybe even indexed as one - what do I know).

If you show the item: act on the item - not the hierarchy that it happens to be (the latest) part of -- unless you do this through an offered distinct, separate method for dealing with the hierarchy - and then don't let that masquerade as the less destructive one, by e.g. supplanting it in its usual location -- it needs to be set apart.

Also; The more destructive action should be the one requiring more involvement to perform.

(Note that this is in a user interface context - if you are designing, e.g, a programming language; then make commands as powerful, and undiscerning, and safeguard-less, as you like - coding is a significantly less "casual" exercise than browsing your inbox.)


Furthermore, to take the always risky (people tend to veer off, or get into interpretation arguments) dive into semantics; an SMS is not a "chat" -- it is what's in its name: a "Short Text Message" "Short Message System" text message. These can be used to conduct an exchange back and forth, but is primarily an asynchronous one-shot type of thing.
A chat, meanwhile, implies, in addition to contigous context, a real-time element: Two or more people stand by, to receive and respond to one another right away, as lines come in -- it also has a beginning and an end.

As for "End chat"; That phrase implies ceasing to add entries to a conversation - possibly archiving it - maybe even "encasing it in glass to prevent tampering".
A far cry from eradicating it, along with every other, unrealted, conversation ever held with the same person.

Nothing is perfect, and dealing with imperfections involves first acknowledging them, and then taking action to have them corrected.
Shooting the messenger fixes nothing.

This "head stubbornly stuck into the sand, while legs flail sharp talons every which direction", is symptomatic of waning communities, where most of the reasonable and capable have left, and the remaining barky dogs feel they have the pen all to themselves and stridently assert such, in the process hampering progress, and scaring away potential newcomers.
It would make me sad to see yet another community fall to it - feel free, everyone, to prove lack of such behaviour (by not engaging in it, that is -- going on the war path (e.g. by spamming links that argubly show how "good" one is), would have the opposite effect).

I am glad, conversly, that the one professed developer among the participants in this thread, is the one designing user experiences, and not any of the rest of us.

[markusbeutel]

Did the exact same thing as you op. New to BlackBerry with the passport, and thought this was super unintuitive and annoying.

Posted via CB10

[slagman5]

They should make it emit a loud siren sound with flashing red lights and glowing words that tell you that it will delete your messages and not end the chat by blocking your ability to send or receive any more messages to/from that individual, lol.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[nick13b]

No, sorry I don't agree that's a justification for the UI choice here.

For instance, If I have a email conversation thread, selecting an email in that thread deletes that particular email and not every email in the conversation thread. A reasonable person will expect text messages to work the same way.

This UI is forcing the user to manage two separate mental models regarding messaging, with no real world gain as far as I can tell. That's bad in ordinary circumstances, but when the inconsistency leads to permanently deleting data, it goes from bad to inexcusable.

Dude, lay off the dubies and maybe your "mental model" will improve

Posted via R115-Aramis.

[berrydisappointed]

So, I had a half finished text message that I had started to compose but never finished.Later I selected this text in the Hub by long pressing on the message. This brought up the 'Delete' option. My intention was just to delete this message, not all of the text messages I had ever had with this person.

I selected delete. A dialog pops up asking me to confirm. Of course, thinking this is just like the normal 'confirm' when deleting a single email message, I quickly hit the confirm button.

It's actually not. It asking to confirm deleting All MESSAGES from this person from time immemorial. If that is not bad enough, I quickly realized my mistake but there is no additional dialog popping up for a few seconds allowing one to undo the delete like it does when deleting an email.

I just deleted six months worth of text messages and there is no way of getting them back.

This is inexcusable. Blackberry is a the bottom of the heap in the smartphones war and deleting all text messages should not be so easy, especially for a company that claims to be focused on communications. Maybe I am missing something here, but I googled, and I'm pretty sure I am not.

I am super pissed.

I think bro what you did was.. you "reply" and not "compose a new" message.. try to figure it out bro the difference between composing a new message and replying to a message..

Z10 STL100-2 | Official OS 10.3.1.1779

[slagman5]

Err, no.

I was going to say no more in this thread, but because you couldn't help yourself, just having to get one mean spirited last word in there, and asserting ungrounded authority... (EDIT: ...and specifically; making a point of it.)

To reiterate:

The core issue here, is that like objects are not treated alike -- this is a fundamental design flaw.

It is true that different types of things require different types of measures, suitable to their particular characteristics, but this only makes it more important to be clear, distinct, discerning, and consistent.

When every item in a list has the same actionable trashcan icon, in the same place, the UX designer should strive to keep its behaviour as close to identical, for each type of item, as possible.

It is not enough to put up a warning sign behind an open manhole cover in the pavement, when that sign has a very close likeness to to every housenumber sign you are walking past. You could move the sign to a position before the hole, and make it bright red - this is a good start, but ultimately you'd do best to put the cover back on.

"But", we see argued, "that item and that array of items (shown in form of its tail item) are presented alike, and are treated alike".

...and therein lies the basic misunderstanding: The item and the array are disparate enough classes to warrant separation; they are not like and should not be presented like - it is strongly misleading.

In this case, the array is not even truly an array: it is a collation of content, based on sender and recipient, brought up through a function initiated by tapping that misleading list entry -- it is still treated as an array, though (...and maybe even indexed as one - what do I know).

If you show the item: act on the item - not the hierarchy that it happens to be (the latest) part of -- unless you do this through an offered distinct, separate method for dealing with the hierarchy - and then don't let that masquerade as the less destructive one, by e.g. supplanting it in its usual location -- it needs to be set apart.

Also; The more destructive action should be the one requiring more involvement to perform.

(Note that this is in a user interface context - if you are designing, e.g, a programming language; then make commands as powerful, and undiscerning, and safeguard-less, as you like - coding is a significantly less "casual" exercise than browsing your inbox.)


Furthermore, to take the always risky (people tend to veer off, or get into interpretation arguments) dive into semantics; an SMS is not a "chat" -- it is what's in its name: a "Short Text Message" "Short Message System" text message. These can be used to conduct an exchange back and forth, but is primarily an asynchronous one-shot type of thing.
A chat, meanwhile, implies, in addition to contigous context, a real-time element: Two or more people stand by, to receive and respond to one another right away, as lines come in -- it also has a beginning and an end.

As for "End chat"; That phrase implies ceasing to add entries to a conversation - possibly archiving it - maybe even "encasing it in glass to prevent tampering".
A far cry from eradicating it, along with every other, unrealted, conversation ever held with the same person.

Nothing is perfect, and dealing with imperfections involves first acknowledging them, and then taking action to have them corrected.
Shooting the messenger fixes nothing.

This "head stubbornly stuck into the sand, while legs flail sharp talons every which direction", is symptomatic of waning communities, where most of the reasonable and capable have left, and the remaining barky dogs feel they have the pen all to themselves and stridently assert such, in the process hampering progress, and scaring away potential newcomers.
It would make me sad to see yet another community fall to it - feel free, everyone, to prove lack of such behaviour (by not engaging in it, that is -- going on the war path (e.g. by spamming links that argubly show how "good" one is), would have the opposite effect).

I am glad, conversly, that the one professed developer among the participants in this thread, is the one designing user experiences, and not any of the rest of us.

Hey, if you can't read a message before clicking ok on a dialog box, what makes you think we can read all of that? Lol

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Al moon]

They should make it emit a loud siren sound with flashing red lights and glowing words that tell you that it will delete your messages and not end the chat by blocking your ability to send or receive any more messages to/from that individual, lol.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

That's nothing how about making the phone just completely friggin implode once you press that confirm button

Posted via CB10

[RyanGermann]

Hey, if you can't read a message before clicking ok on a dialog box, what makes you think we can read all of that? Lol

Enough of your LOLs. UIs that are poorly designed cause errors. Better designed UIs prevent user error. Your jokes about not reading are as funny as your other pointless comments so give it a rest. Jebus.

Posted via CB10

[slagman5]

Enough of your LOLs. UIs that are poorly designed cause errors. Better designed UIs prevent user error. Your jokes about not reading are as funny as your other pointless comments so give it a rest. Jebus.

Posted via CB10

Strange how so many people don't have a problem with it. If the UI is the thing "causing" the issue, and we're all using the same exact UI, then we would all have the issue. I don't know, just logic, jebus.

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[anon(5990673)]

Hey, if you can't read a message before clicking ok on a dialog box, what makes you think we can read all of that? Lol

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Exactly what I thought to myself, after reading the whole post lol



Passport 

[slagman5]

Exactly what I thought to myself, after reading the whole post lol



Passport 

All of that time, writing that rant, just so you don't have to spend 2 seconds to read a dialog box before making a selection...

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

[Eddie Lee4158]

There is a warning message. Which part of it don't you understand?

Posted via CB10

[R7abb]

Hey, if you can't read a message before clicking ok on a dialog box, what makes you think we can read all of that? Lol

Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10

Amen lol

Posted via CB10

[Leo pard]

I believe it's like that for all platforms. Nothing new, nothing to do with Blackberry.

Posted via CB10

[scorepion]

This is a funny thread

Posted via CB10

[Henry Jr]

So, are only old Blackberry users supposed to use newer Blackberry devices?

Of course not. I was just wondering.

[mr_vpw]

I accidentally click the wrong trash can icon in the Hub when cruising through a bunch of items to delete (I know, dumby-dumb again!), and then foolishly and reflexively hit the confirm delete button when the dialog pops up, it permanently deletes the item.

Presumably you also reflexively agree to terms and conditions, reflexively sign contracts and so on too?

..by the way, if you had to get a client to resend an email, it makes your point moot because you complained about the sms thing and suggested it should have email like 'not really' deleted states. Which er, email does if you're using a half credible email setup as you yourself point out.

So whilst it doesn't make the feature appear in sms, nor stop you reflexively pressing ok to a specific warning prompt, your email scenario surely can't have happened in the first place. What was your point!?!?







Posted via CB10

[gvs1341]

Someone should head over to iMore forums and start a 'WTF' thread about iMess ages' group chats on non iOS devices....... ;-)

Sorry / OT

 Q5 / Z30

[Al moon]

good lord this thread is still alive ? its the most useful useless thread of all time

[wtj]

An older BlackBerry user would know that. Someone who just picked up BB10 for the first time, would not.

I've had two different Curves and my last BB was a 9900 Bold over several years.
My recent PP was my first OS 10 device.

How "old" does a user have to be?
I suggest that I've probably been using BB's while you were too young to afford one without a contract.

HOWEVER, this BB is indeed inexcusably quick to delete.

There seems no way to extend the "undo" time which is ridiculously fast on emails
and I sympathize with the poster's annoyance,
not because he lost a message after the "end chat" warning,
but because the learning curve on this thing is obscene without proper documentation.

It took me two weeks to determine how to select all the emails from an obnoxious sender ONLY and delete all with "delete prior".
I had no problem selecting and deleting with my Bold.
It was intuitive.

When I called the BB help line, the fellow that answered had no idea what I was talking about.
He couldn't understand that someone would want to organize JUST the emails from one source and delete them all.
He kept reading a script that explained how to set up an account.
I got so disgusted, that I hung up after a wasted half hour.

Searching the Crackberry forums didn't help either.
The forum threads are too unwieldy and take too long to narrow a search.
A more SPECIFIC TOC is needed...and
...in this age where we have 3.7GHZ, 8GB and 1 or more TB on the desktop,
there's no reason a decent index can't be provided and updated regularly by the wizards among the moderators/editors.

[DocDRM]

I've had two different Curves and my last BB was a 9900 Bold over several years.
My recent PP was my first OS 10 device.

How "old" does a user have to be?
.
.
.
.
.
. rants deleted
.
.
.
.
.
.
...in this age where we have 3.7GHZ, 8GB and 1 or more TB on the desktop,
there's no reason a decent index can't be provided and updated regularly by the wizards among the moderators/editors.

Dude - you need a SNICKERS!

[anon(5990673)]

Dude - you need a SNICKERS!

I agree, In this age we have too many slow learners, we need to give them a snickers, and a pat on their back, and tell them it's OK!

Passport 

[scorepion]

I snickered

Posted via CB10

[Harmount]

Amazon app world has a email text app. I am trying that out.