[lokoalex]

Bundled with the BES services Blackberry is still very attractive even when selling higher price phones. Keep in mind when big businesses buy they aren't paying single pc prices. Often they are buying at a significant discount. Especially when subscribing to additional BES and protected services.

BES services and Blackberry is still atractive? Maybe you havent seen how Blackberrys stock keeps dropping. More and more corporations are moving away from Blackberry due to their concerns for the future of Blackberry. Consumers and businesses alike are moving away from Blackberry, because from a users persepective, iPhone, Android and Windows Phones offer more flexibility.
With that said, do you think really think Blackberry is in a position to push consumers away with overpricing?

Period Android iOS Windows Phone BlackBerry OS Others
Q2 2014 84.7% 11.7% 2.5% 0.5% 0.7%

These are Q2 Smartphone OS shares for 2014. These numbers are eye opening.

[Minhaaj Rehman]

These few simple sentences says it all.

I need apps, latest technology, good battery and reliability but if any company today thinks that people value these more than the money they are willing to spend on a phone they are deluded. Especially in developing countries where chen is headed. Do in India as the Indians do. Chen capitalized on Foxconn which is good but focus on economy of sales and make money on services. Huge margin days are over. You need to be apple in order to Behave like them. First get BlackBerry in every hand and then ask for the price you want for the next BlackBerry.

Patience is the key. It takes years to build and months to ruin.

Posted via CB10

[anon(3066922)]

These few simple sentences says it all.

They could have repackaged an iphone it would have still not done well. It is hard to remove a stigma. Only time will fix that. Blackberry became irrelevant.

[dejanh]

They could have repackaged an iphone it would have still not done well. It is hard to remove a stigma. Only time will fix that. Blackberry became irrelevant.

Sure, but this won't change if they price themselves out of the market.

Posted via CB10

[anon(3066922)]

But how do you maintain an ecosystem (it is important for enterprise as well) if you don't keep your volumes at a certain level. How do you keep your phone in carrier stores and websites (important for small and medium size businesses)?

Blackberry shouldn't worrying about hardware margins. They make their money on BES and other enterprise services. Get the dam phone into people's hand so that developers start to support the ecosystem. Do you really think selling a small handful of phones at high margins will have any impact on the company or its reputation? No. End of Story.

So you are worried about Blackberry's reputation? Funny, all investors are worried about is making money. Trust me, blackberry needs high margin and slow growth. Look at Tesla. They have a great product and are slowly building the brand. They didn't rush to put a tesla dealership in every town. If someone wants a tesla they know where to buy it, get support for it and evaluate their own need for it. Should they drop their price to $20,000 so everyone buys one? No they have high margins, innovative niche products where people are starting to notice.

Just saying

[anon(3066922)]

Bundled with the BES services Blackberry is still very attractive even when selling higher price phones. Keep in mind when big businesses buy they aren't paying single pc prices. Often they are buying at a significant discount. Especially when subscribing to additional BES and protected services.

Governments are not budget conscious. Businesses are but again total cost of ownership with blackberry is less than competitors.

[anon(3066922)]

Sure, but this won't change if they price themselves out of the market.

Posted via CB10

Mercedes sells a fraction of the vehicles that Ford does. Which business model is better? One is high margin niche and the other is low cost cut throat. One has differentiators and others are "me too products". Blackberry wants to sell differentiators.

[tnewton3]

I understand what the OP is saying and I agree that the Passport will sell if priced aggressively. What I would ask is would it sell better if it were $50.00-$100.00 less than say an iphone 6 or the latest greatest Samsung off contract?

If a consumer is looking at the devices side by side that price drop just might make them jump for the Passport? I'm looking to purchase the device with a contract extension so $200.00 is what I'm expecting. I would love to see a promotion for a pair of premium wired BlackBerry headphones if I were to purchase on contract through a rebate.

Anything BlackBerry can do to get the Passport into more hands I would like. I'm buying it no matter what the price so I'm good either way.

Posted via Q10

[anon(3066922)]

I agree. BlackBerry needs volume at this stage in the game not mark up. $100 on a data plus plan and $200 on a data light plan from the Canadian Carriers.

Yes then buy the Z10, Q10, Z3 or Z30. All less than that right now. Don't expect a premium device (at launch) to be less than that.

Good luck on Sunday by the way

[anon(3066922)]

I understand what the OP is saying and I agree that the Passport will sell if priced aggressively. What I would ask is would it sell better if it were $50.00-$100.00 less than say an iphone 6 or the latest greatest Samsung off contract?

If a consumer is looking at the devices side by side that price drop just might make them jump for the Passport? I'm looking to purchase the device with a contract extension so $200.00 is what I'm expecting. I would love to see a promotion for a pair of premium wired BlackBerry headphones if I were to purchase on contract through a rebate.

Anything BlackBerry can do to get the Passport into more hands I would like. I'm buying it no matter what the price so I'm good either way.

Posted via Q10

I agree and your wish of $200 may actually happen with the subsidy of the carrier in Canada. Have you noticed now that phone plans are 2 years vs. 3 years that the average phone plan is now $80+

Now that is margin but it is also to compensate for a year less of a service agreement to amortize your contact over.

[dejanh]

Mercedes sells a fraction of the vehicles that Ford does. Which business model is better? One is high margin niche and the other is low cost cut throat. One has differentiators and others are "me too products". Blackberry wants to sell differentiators.

Strategically that only works if they actually have a differentiating factor. Unfortunately, reality is that BlackBerry is in a "me too" market. Don't fool yourself thinking that they have something to offer that others don't. The niche for their top end security is tiny. Most everyone else is good with Good or Mobile Iron, or really any other provider out there together with a cheapo BYOD model. They won't survive catering to the German government.

Posted via CB10

[insandouts]

Thus I believe that the corporatocracy would want a product which is recognized as a more expensive option compared to an i-phone.

You make it sound like the iPhone is cheap while it is the most expensive phone in the market. You need to compare unlock prices not subsidized ones

[anon(3066922)]

BES services and Blackberry is still atractive? Maybe you havent seen how Blackberrys stock keeps dropping. More and more corporations are moving away from Blackberry due to their concerns for the future of Blackberry. Consumers and businesses alike are moving away from Blackberry, because from a users persepective, iPhone, Android and Windows Phones offer more flexibility.
With that said, do you think really think Blackberry is in a position to push consumers away with overpricing?

Period Android iOS Windows Phone BlackBerry OS Others
Q2 2014 84.7% 11.7% 2.5% 0.5% 0.7%

These are Q2 Smartphone OS shares for 2014. These numbers are eye opening.

The reply is based on pricing. If pricing is the motivation then yes Blackberry is very attractive. If based on negligence on the part of whoever is telling the company to switch then that is something different. I can tell you blackberry isn't losing these accounts on price... it's the latter in addition to consumer confidence etc. but not price.

[anon(3066922)]

I need apps, latest technology, good battery and reliability but if any company today thinks that people value these more than the money they are willing to spend on a phone they are deluded. Especially in developing countries where chen is headed. Do in India as the Indians do. Chen capitalized on Foxconn which is good but focus on economy of sales and make money on services. Huge margin days are over. You need to be apple in order to Behave like them. First get BlackBerry in every hand and then ask for the price you want for the next BlackBerry.

Patience is the key. It takes years to build and months to ruin.

Posted via CB10

Yes, get a phone into everyone's hands, a Z3. Not a passport, Z30.

[insandouts]

100% spot on. Business and governments are budget conscious and they think very carefully about pricing. Even though you don't think you are competing with Apple or Samsung, you are. Price it well and enterprise will buy more units. It is that simple. Pricing needs to be aggressive to get Blackberry back in the game.

You assumed that consumers and enterprises will buy Blackberry but that is not the case. The Z10 and Q10 were sold at $0 subsidized and still they did not sell in any meaningful numbers. I am afraid that no matter the price consumers/Enterprises are just over Blackberry.

[mf1982]

But do they need 50% margins on hardware or over all? Services are where they make significant margin.

Over price the Passport and lots of people will sit on the sidelines until a price cut comes.

Look at the
Z10
Z30
Q10
Q5

All these phones were priced high. Now a brand new Z10 should be no more than $200. Q10 about $350 (I paid $649 for mine), Q5 for $150 and Z30 for $350.

The PlayBook was a $500+ device, a 32 was $600 I think. I bought one after a year, brand new for $149.

Price too high and I'll wait for the firesale.

Posted via CB10

[insandouts]

I need apps, latest technology, good battery and reliability but if any company today thinks that people value these more than the money they are willing to spend on a phone they are deluded. Especially in developing countries where chen is headed. Do in India as the Indians do. Chen capitalized on Foxconn which is good but focus on economy of sales and make money on services. Huge margin days are over. You need to be apple in order to Behave like them. First get BlackBerry in every hand and then ask for the price you want for the next BlackBerry.

Patience is the key. It takes years to build and months to ruin.

Posted via CB10

Blackberry were in lots of hands before Apple and Google conquered the market. You are deluded into thinking that they will come back. I bet they won't and even Chen admitted that when he said all he needs is to sell 10 million devices a year - Sammy & Apple sell that in a week

[anon(3066922)]

Strategically that only works if they actually have a differentiating factor. Unfortunately, reality is that BlackBerry is in a "me too" market. Don't fool yourself thinking that they have something to offer that others don't. The niche for their top end security is tiny. Most everyone else is good with Good or Mobile Iron, or really any other provider out there together with a cheapo BYOD model. They won't survive catering to the German government.

Posted via CB10

I agree with you 100%. They do at least have a perception of being more secure. That is very valuable. Again their market is also not consumers. It is fortune 500 with an emphases on security. Different levels of companies are doing to want different things. I see lots of companies right now deploying iPhone 5C's and blackberry Q5's. The ones that want the premium phones need to pay for them. The value as you mentioned is in the BES and the services but if you aren't going to make any money on the phone why not sell them a Q5 or a Q10 vs. building an expensive phone for no profit. It's expected that they will sell fewer of the passports because they aren't intending for the average person.

Again the ones who want them need to pay for them.

[anon(3066922)]

The Z10 and Q10 were sold at $0 subsidized and still they did not sell in any meaningful numbers

Blackberry makes healthy margins on their phones. Not sure if you are referring to the cost you see at the store or not but carriers pay blackberry for the phones at a hefty price. Try buying one out of contact.

[Resilience]

Doesn't matter what price this phone will sell loads

Posted via CB10

[anon(3066922)]

But do they need 50% margins on hardware or over all? Services are where they make significant margin.

Over price the Passport and lots of people will sit on the sidelines until a price cut comes.

Look at the
Z10
Z30
Q10
Q5

All these phones were priced high. Now a brand new Z10 should be no more than $200. Q10 about $350 (I paid $649 for mine), Q5 for $150 and Z30 for $350.

The PlayBook was a $500+ device, a 32 was $600 I think. I bought one after a year, brand new for $149.

Price too high and I'll wait for the firesale.

Posted via CB10

Software margins are generally 90% + so just hardware. It is one of the most heavily watch numbers during quarterly report (before sales).

Yes apple does the same thing when new phones are coming out. If you are a techy that has to have the latest then you have to pay. If you can wait for a product cycle or 2 then you can save big time. It costs much more for a company to sit on inventory then to clear it out at discounted prices.

[dejanh]

Doesn't matter what price this phone will sell loads

Posted via CB10

That's the spirit (of denial).

Posted via CB10

[anon(3066922)]

Maybe you havent seen how Blackberrys stock keeps dropping.

By the way. It isn't dropping right now. It was in restructuring and survival mode. I would be shocked if the price went up during that time. Did you noticed that there was a slight uptick in sales last quarter? Rome wasn't built in a day (not that I expect blackberry to get back to it's glory days but I do expect greater things to come)

[anon(3066922)]

By the way pricing is almost always last in the minds of the people that are in the market for high end phones. The decision is in perceived value. Start watching apple keynote speeches and take note of how they tell you how the value of what they are selling you is a really good deal. This is what it comes down to. There aren't many people buying high end phones on price.

[Resilience]

I don't give a crap if it doesn't sell, because pretty sure this device is going to last a good year before they make another high end qwerty and by then I don't know how they can top this one

Posted via CB10