07-11-14 08:41 AM
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  1. AthenaSmith's Avatar
    I still wish it had a 4-row keyboard instead of 3.

    Posted via CB10
    Tim Heard, CeCoQ and Mr4aces like this.
    06-30-14 09:30 AM
  2. Nemzy's Avatar
    Only you and a few thousand people will buy the phone then.
    Wow, you are able to predict the future. Please tell us more
    Mr4aces likes this.
    06-30-14 09:38 AM
  3. 018125's Avatar
    Wow, you are able to predict the future. Please tell us more
    Mocking someone for speculating about BlackBerry, on a forum which would be dead without BlackBerry speculation, is stupid.

    Posted via CB10
    CeCoQ, lift and CeeXTwo like this.
    06-30-14 09:45 AM
  4. jhimmel's Avatar
    No, he didn't...
    Yes he did -
    "My typing has been faster on this than it has been on any other BlackBerry. Its been more accurate too."
    06-30-14 09:54 AM
  5. lift's Avatar
    Funny that you talk about giving opinions but reading your past comments in this thread and others, you state things as if factual with comments like: "This phone will be an epic failure outside the BlackBerry/ CrackBerry realm". You don't like the device so that means the rest of the world wouldn't too? Ultimately as other have shared wisdom, we will have to wait and see how things work before we begin to make judgements. I don't understand why they have excluded symbols from the keypad but I will not start saying "It will be an epic failure" because of that. I like the device and I HOPE it will be successful.

    See the difference? I haven't said "It will be phone of the year" but I certainly do HOPE it is. Its the same thing in every Passport thread, its really wearing me out lol
    Again, my OPINION is that this phone is going to be a total failure. MY opinion. Maybe it looks like I am trying to be MR. right but I'm not. I hope to god I am wrong. BlackBerry cannot afford any more failures not only financially, but in the perception department. The reason I believe it will fail is the looks, size ,shape and new touch/physical key combo. All of those factors you don't see from the other major phone manufactures. WHY? Because they won't sell and it seems like all the other company's know that except BlackBerry. It's bad enough that almost everybody thinks BlackBerry is a physical keyboard only company and old tech., now they come out with this laughing stock of a phone. I showed pictures to some of my family and friends (who by the way I still can't get them to buy BlackBerry phones) and the first thing they ALL said is "why is BlackBerry still making phones with keys and boy is that an ugly phone". Now you know why I seem to think it will fail and I am so worried? We should all be worried. Have you showed this to any family, friends, co workers? See what they say.
    06-30-14 10:35 AM
  6. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I know someone who used it. He was overwhelmingly complimentary about the device, said he will buy it on day 1 at full price.

    Also said the typing experience sucked. Apparently (what a surprise), it's really annoying to use the touchscreen to type really common symbols when you're in full flow.

    Posted via CB10
    Forgive me, but there's something about this comment that smells a little off.

    The Passport is really built around this new typing/navigation experience. If this acquaintance struggled with it that much, I'm surprised it didn't color his outlook on the device in general.

    And, again, the input for numbers/symbols is almost exactly the same as on the Q5/Q10. Did he have any experience with either of these phones?
    ubizmo likes this.
    06-30-14 10:41 AM
  7. Nemzy's Avatar
    Mocking someone for speculating about BlackBerry, on a forum which would be dead without BlackBerry speculation, is stupid.

    Posted via CB10
    My point in this forum remains that, the people who are suggesting that a device they don't have full information about is going to be a failure should first wait to try the device and also understand that they do not represent the market. That is all. My comment is a joke which is why it is accompanied with a smiley. And following my comment, referring to my comment as "stupid" is somewhat contradictory to your point, don't you think?
    06-30-14 10:42 AM
  8. 018125's Avatar
    Forgive me, but there's something about this comment that smells a little off.

    The Passport is really built around this new typing/navigation experience. If this acquaintance struggled with it that much, I'm surprised it didn't color his outlook on the device in general.

    And, again, the input for numbers/symbols is almost exactly the same as on the Q5/Q10. Did he have any experience with either of these phones?
    I'm sorry that his opinion conflicts with your hopes for this device.

    You can keep saying it's the same as the Q10/Q5, but that's not really true, is it? The Qs have physical ALT, SHIFT and SYM buttons, which allow you to quickly (and naturally) enter alternative characters WITHOUT having to look at the touch screen. Only extended uncommon symbols are selected via the touchscreen.

    Over time you will of course learn where the symbols are and will get used to using the physical keyboard which maps to the onscreen symbol. But this is not initially intuitive. And that's a big problem.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 10:48 AM
  9. lift's Avatar
    Actually, you've got it backwards. The virtual keys are labeled with the physical keys that trigger them, and that makes more sense when you think about it. One, your fingers are actually on the keys and you'd have to move them to look at the keyboard. Two, labeling the physical keys would be confusing, considering that the Alt key is virtual as well.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    So you will have to constantly keep looking up to the screen, down to the keys, up to the screen, rinse and repeat. Again this is going to be a learning curve to everybody. Why make it harder? All touch means everything is right there on the screen. A physical keyboard has all the numbers and symbols on the keys, right there. Why try to change all that? does BlackBerry think this is going to be so great that all the Millions and millions of people that have learned and adjusted to all touch or all physical keys are going to just flood the stores looking for this confusing device?
    06-30-14 10:50 AM
  10. gnirkatto's Avatar
    I know someone who used it. He was overwhelmingly complimentary about the device, said he will buy it on day 1 at full price.

    Also said the typing experience sucked. Apparently (what a surprise), it's really annoying to use the touchscreen to type really common symbols when you're in full flow.

    Posted via CB10
    ^this, I do not at all understand.
    "Typing experience sucked", "really annoying" - but then he wants to buy it on day 1 at full price?
    This logic makes no sense.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 10:50 AM
  11. CeCoQ's Avatar
    This is a phone with three rows. Even the space bar being off to the side wasn't a big problem. And Blackberry Passport with the space bar to the middle, it will be okay.
    Dear BlackBerry! There's still time to fix the Passport keyboard.-nokia-n900-wide_keyboard.jpg

    but we need more keys... shift (for caps)? alt? and sym? and therefore additional characters on the keys... WHY having a wide "Q" when we can fit "Q", "0" and "~", on the same key?

    Blackberry wanted to reinvent typing?
    lift, Mr4aces and AthenaSmith like this.
    06-30-14 10:50 AM
  12. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Again, my OPINION is that this phone is going to be a total failure. MY opinion. Maybe it looks like I am trying to be MR. right but I'm not. I hope to god I am wrong. BlackBerry cannot afford any more failures not only financially, but in the perception department. The reason I believe it will fail is the looks, size ,shape and new touch/physical key combo. All of those factors you don't see from the other major phone manufactures. WHY? Because they won't sell and it seems like all the other company's know that except BlackBerry. It's bad enough that almost everybody thinks BlackBerry is a physical keyboard only company and old tech., now they come out with this laughing stock of a phone. I showed pictures to some of my family and friends (who by the way I still can't get them to buy BlackBerry phones) and the first thing they ALL said is "why is BlackBerry still making phones with keys and boy is that an ugly phone". Now you know why I seem to think it will fail and I am so worried? We should all be worried. Have you showed this to any family, friends, co workers? See what they say.
    There's a big difference between saying "I don't like [insert phone/game/movie title here]" and "I think it will fail". There are many (MANY) things that I don't like that have been massively successful. I'll just throw out the name "Justin Bieber..."

    Your opinion is based on incomplete information, since you haven't actually used the device. You may be underestimating the phone-buying public's willingness to try something new (especially when we haven't seen much innovation in this space in the past few years). I PERSONALLY (note the emphasis) think that such a distinctive design has the potential to arouse a lot of curiosity and discussion.

    I'd be curious to know how much experience you have with both the virtual and physical keyboard BB10 devices, too. I'm going to venture that anyone who's lived with both would be very excited about a technology that combines the best features of each. And when I say "lived with both", I mean actually spent more than a week with each of them.

    I'm not so presumptuous as to assume that the Passport will be a massive success, or any success at all. I don't know how well these features have been implemented, or if they'll actually improve usability (though I have enough experience that I'm comfortable saying there's a pretty good chance). If you don't like the look of this device... well, it's different and I get that, but it's WAY too early make grand pronouncements.
    Nemzy likes this.
    06-30-14 10:51 AM
  13. Nemzy's Avatar
    Again, my OPINION is that this phone is going to be a total failure. MY opinion. Maybe it looks like I am trying to be MR. right but I'm not. I hope to god I am wrong. BlackBerry cannot afford any more failures not only financially, but in the perception department. The reason I believe it will fail is the looks, size ,shape and new touch/physical key combo. All of those factors you don't see from the other major phone manufactures. WHY? Because they won't sell and it seems like all the other company's know that except BlackBerry. It's bad enough that almost everybody thinks BlackBerry is a physical keyboard only company and old tech., now they come out with this laughing stock of a phone. I showed pictures to some of my family and friends (who by the way I still can't get them to buy BlackBerry phones) and the first thing they ALL said is "why is BlackBerry still making phones with keys and boy is that an ugly phone". Now you know why I seem to think it will fail and I am so worried? We should all be worried. Have you showed this to any family, friends, co workers? See what they say.
    That is fair enough but I don't understand how you have concluded that the reason other smartphone manufacturers have not come up with something similar is because they will not sell. How will someone know something will not sell if they no one has ever made it and sold it. Before the Samsung Galaxy note series there were practically no large phones on the market. That didn't mean that large phones will not sell, just because other manufacturers were not making them. And they did as seen by the success of the Note. I hope that the Passport will be a success and I would like to get one if its works fine in my hands and is available at a reasonable price. As others have stated, this phone is definitely not for everyone and so BlackBerry may restrict production compared to their other released devices. And also the success of BlackBerry by no means lies in the hands of this one device. BlackBerry is releasing the Classic and LTE Z3 this year (Although I do believe they should've released a high end full touch instead) and has multiple sources of revenue outside the handset market.
    lift likes this.
    06-30-14 10:52 AM
  14. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    This is a phone with three rows. Even the space bar being off to the side wasn't a big problem. And Blackberry Passport with the space bar to the middle, it will be okay.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	nokia-n900-wide_keyboard.jpg 
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    but we need more keys... shift (for caps)? alt? and sym? and therefore additional characters on the keys... WHY having a wide "Q" when we can fit "Q", "0" and "~", on the same key?
    The problem with including physical Shift/Alt/Sym keys is gesture support. Because you'll be swiping/tapping/holding keys for navigation functions, including keys that modify the other keys introduces a risk that the user will accidentally activate them in the course of a gesture.

    Give it a chance when it actually comes out, and get back to us then, huh?

    Blackberry wanted to reinvent typing?
    YES!!! That's the idea!
    calivol likes this.
    06-30-14 10:54 AM
  15. 018125's Avatar
    There's a big difference between saying "I don't like [insert phone/game/movie title here]" and "I think it will fail". There are many (MANY) things that I don't like that have been massively successful. I'll just throw out the name "Justin Bieber..."

    Your opinion is based on incomplete information, since you haven't actually used the device. You may be underestimating the phone-buying public's willingness to try something new (especially when we haven't seen much innovation in this space in the past few years). I PERSONALLY (note the emphasis) think that such a distinctive design has the potential to arouse a lot of curiosity and discussion.

    I'd be curious to know how much experience you have with both the virtual and physical keyboard BB10 devices, too. I'm going to venture that anyone who's lived with both would be very excited about a technology that combines the best features of each. And when I say "lived with both", I mean actually spent more than a week with each of them.

    I'm not so presumptuous as to assume that the Passport will be a massive success, or any success at all. I don't know how well these features have been implemented, or if they'll actually improve usability (though I have enough experience that I'm comfortable saying there's a pretty good chance). If you don't like the look of this device... well, it's different and I get that, but it's WAY too early make grand pronouncements.
    I own a z30 and a q10. Loved both devices.

    I am not excited about the combined virtual/physical keyboard on the Passport. In my opinion it will slow me down.

    I'll still buy it for the collection :-)

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 10:54 AM
  16. lift's Avatar
    My point in this forum remains that, the people who are suggesting that a device they don't have full information about is going to be a failure should first wait to try the device and also understand that they do not represent the market. That is all. My comment is a joke which is why it is accompanied with a smiley. And following my comment, referring to my comment as "stupid" is somewhat contradictory to your point, don't you think?
    Many of us speculating it's failure are also worried about BlackBerry's future. Just the looks alone will turn Millions away. People are very quick to judge by appearance alone, then when they find out it's a BlackBerry they will run away laughing or screaming. Does BlackBerry need that? Just go to any American phone retailer and ask for a BlackBerry. Remember what happens. Now once those dealers get a look at this, do you HONESTLY think they are going to want this product? Honestly?
    06-30-14 10:59 AM
  17. wincyUt's Avatar
    Only you and a few thousand people will buy the phone then.
    ain't you presumptuous?
    06-30-14 11:00 AM
  18. lift's Avatar
    "You may be underestimating the phone-buying public's willingness to try something new (especially when we haven't seen much innovation in this space in the past few years). I PERSONALLY (note the emphasis) think that such a distinctive design has the potential to arouse a lot of curiosity and discussion."

    Your quote. Are you serious? Then why hasn't all the phone buying public been running out in droves to try the new BB10 devices? They were new for BlackBerry and different. People don't want new and different!! They want new and Better. New and easier to use. New and sexier. New and cheaper. New and something their friends will want too. NOT just new for the sake of trying to be so different that people won't want to bother.
    06-30-14 11:08 AM
  19. wincyUt's Avatar
    This is a phone with three rows. Even the space bar being off to the side wasn't a big problem. And Blackberry Passport with the space bar to the middle, it will be okay.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	nokia-n900-wide_keyboard.jpg 
Views:	581 
Size:	30.5 KB 
ID:	281646

    but we need more keys... shift (for caps)? alt? and sym? and therefore additional characters on the keys... WHY having a wide "Q" when we can fit "Q", "0" and "~", on the same key?

    Blackberry wanted to reinvent typing?
    I take it that you are a mobile phone expert and is probably smarter than the engineers at BlackBerry, right? Have you considered working for BlackBerry so you can show them how keyboards are done.
    06-30-14 11:09 AM
  20. calivol's Avatar
    Many have said from day one this is a love / hate device. This thread certainly supports that assumption.

    I'll certainly take that over irrelevant, which is unfortunately what the previous BlackBerry 10 products were.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 11:11 AM
  21. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I own a z30 and a q10. Loved both devices.

    I am not excited about the combined virtual/physical keyboard on the Passport. In my opinion it will slow me down.

    I'll still buy it for the collection :-)

    Posted via CB10
    So, what is it about the concept that you think will slow you down?

    Now, anyone who's doing a LOT of numbers/symbols will have to either have to reach up to the virtual row to hit the ALT key or swipe down to get the first page of the num/sym vkb. And, yes, I get that this incurs a slight delay over just hitting a physical ALT key as on the Q10. Based on my own experience, though, I found that this was more than offset by the time saved with word prediction/up-swiping as on the Z10/Z30.
    06-30-14 11:14 AM
  22. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    "You may be underestimating the phone-buying public's willingness to try something new (especially when we haven't seen much innovation in this space in the past few years). I PERSONALLY (note the emphasis) think that such a distinctive design has the potential to arouse a lot of curiosity and discussion."

    Your quote. Are you serious? Then why hasn't all the phone buying public been running out in droves to try the new BB10 devices? They were new for BlackBerry and different. People don't want new and different!! They want new and Better. New and easier to use. New and sexier. New and cheaper. New and something their friends will want too. NOT just new for the sake of trying to be so different that people won't want to bother.
    Actually, you could make the case that the Z10 and Q10 weren't "new and different" enough. People frequently mistook my Z10 for an iPhone. And the Q10 just looks like a legacy kb BlackBerry to someone who isn't actually looking for it.

    The Passport will get attention. It doesn't just work different, it LOOKS different. Whether you like that difference or not is completely subjective, but outside of this community (i.e. non-BB tech blogs), the dominating mood seems to be curiosity over outright dismissal.
    lift likes this.
    06-30-14 11:18 AM
  23. liteScribble's Avatar
    I see what they have done. It's the HYBRID keyboard.

    Personally, I do a lot of typing while moving around. And a lot of the time the typing is done without the need to look at the keys or screen even for punctuation and smileys. Pretty sure a bunch of the q10 and legacy BlackBerry users can relate.

    My only concern is : it seems we may be required to glance at the screen whenever we need to add in a punctuation. NOOOOOOOOO

    I know it's a first world problem. But nevertheless I would just have to deal with it when I get my hand on it. Hope BlackBerry has a solution for this. Maybe the device auto-punctuates.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 11:19 AM
  24. Tim Heard's Avatar
    I get what you're saying, and that's a valid point. It's not insurmountable though. If swiping left to right, the various control keys like that could be in the far right column, or they could be offset somehow. Or give the shift key additional functionality. Hold it down and it becomes the "Alt" key.
    Undoubtedly, many people will adapt just fine to using the screen for symbols and numbers. People who are switching back from a Z10, or Z30, for example. It shouldn't have to be an either/or situation though. With just a bit o thought, BlackBerry could have allowed for both options in the same phone.


    The problem with including physical Shift/Alt/Sym keys is gesture support. Because you'll be swiping/tapping/holding keys for navigation functions, including keys that modify the other keys introduces a risk that the user will accidentally activate them in the course of a gesture.

    Give it a chance when it actually comes out, and get back to us then, huh?

    YES!!! That's the idea!
    06-30-14 11:24 AM
  25. Mr4aces's Avatar
    I really want to like this phone but I just cant. It has a nice resolution on the screen and it has a better camera, which are two things I have been waiting for but I just cant get over the width. I don't see how I carry that around day to day comfortably. Hopefully when I see it in person it doesnt handle as big as it looks. My other issue is somewhat in agreement with the OP. Ive been a long term blackberry user, still on a Bold 9900, and love the current keyboard. Its comfortable and familiar. I wont judge until the passport is in my hands for a trial, but right now I just cant get behind it having to learn a new keyboard form factor. If the classic has comparable specs on screen resolution and camera I think I would go that route just because it looks like a more portable form.
    Unless you are a BB9900 user they just don't get it. We use the Bold because it is so fast to type on. And why would they call the Q20 a CLASSIC when it has a straight keyboard like the Q10? The ergonomic keyboard is what a Classic it should be. I have mix feelings about the Classic and Passport, I will have to try one and see how it feels.

    I know one thing I won't be able to lay on my back in bed and use a Passport.

    I guess if I don't like either one I will light a candle and pray someone will make a mother board with BB10 OS and high end specs so I can go in business assemblying new 9900's or rebuild old ones.
    Last edited by Mr4aces; 06-30-14 at 01:02 PM.
    06-30-14 11:25 AM
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