07-11-14 09:41 AM
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  1. jefbeard911's Avatar
    Dear BlackBerry,

    A lot of questions have been raised on this topic. You sent us pictures of this virtual keyboard taking half of the screen. The people don't really like it. And if people on this forum (BlackBerry crazy top fans) don't like it. It could be a problem for regular fan and for regular user.

    People want a phone they can buy and be happy with. They certainly also don't want to increase the phone buy to return ratio. But if they have to, they will return it.

    People are still convinced that the z30 could be a better phone to choose. But next door at Apple or Samsung. There is no choosing between the new iPhone 6 and any older device. Or S5 and older... no choice should be given. We don't want to see "I will stick to my z30".

    How many people use everyday the on-screen virtual keyboard on the Q10. If that is more than 10% of the users. Go ahead and release the Passport. It's a bit different on the q10 as they don't need to. But it won't be easy to do so even if they wanted to.

    We know however it is late to call the manufacturer as of now to change the keyboard layout (add new keys) as it will require to change the frames. But if massive production hasn't started, it's still time to remove those large letters and try and fit letters and symbols on keys.

    Last thing. How would we add "alt" and "sym"? Not too hard. Well since the keyboard is touch. We can enable "alt" with a gesture on the left side of the keyboard and "sym" with another one on the right side of the keyboard. If people cannot do gestures then give them the option to enable ONE (1) layer only of virtual keys.....

    But this is probably too late for a release in September. No problem we will wait another month if you can recall the units made and do a hardware update. (swap current keyboard with keyboard with symbols) and also in the software.

    Posted via CB10
    By now you must have read the "Exclusive Pre-release Review" posted today on CB which gives the keyboard rave reviews. It also says you have to try it to believe it as well as pointing out the target market is not the average BB user. I'm curious if you have a different take on it now?

    PS- Come on now, the virtual keyboard takes up half the screen? That's a gross exaggeration to say the least. Let's be fair. If it took up an 1/5 of what is already a huge screen I'd be surprised.
    Last edited by jefbeard911; 06-30-14 at 06:09 AM.
    06-30-14 05:32 AM
  2. CrackberryQ's Avatar
    I love the keyboard, but incorporating gestures to make up for alt and shift and placing printed symbols on it are a welcomed concept.


    Send from my Q10 in Duracell Mode
    06-30-14 05:42 AM
  3. smoothrunnings's Avatar
    Lol, what? Based on the leaks, nothing wrong with the Passport keyboard.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    The keyboard is ugly and it does not real purpose especially when you have to use the on screen keyboard to do special characters making the keyboard incomplete. No dummy is going to like this device and there are currently a lot dummies using the older keyboards because even the touch screen ones because they are "easy" to use and manage.

    Unfortunately this phone will flop until they release a phone that has a fully functional keyboard, that's were all the keys have a purpose and the user doesn't have to use the touch screen as part of the keyboard.

    Just look at the PC keyboard, Microsoft and others have tried to change it's shape and layout and after all these years they keyboard has reminded one or two typical layouts. BlackBerry has realize this and know that changing the keyboard the way hey have with the Passport is going to be disastrous for them!
    06-30-14 06:25 AM
  4. 018125's Avatar
    The keyboard is ugly and it does not real purpose especially when you have to use the on screen keyboard to do special characters making the keyboard incomplete. No dummy is going to like this device and there are currently a lot dummies using the older keyboards because even the touch screen ones because they are "easy" to use and manage.

    Unfortunately this phone will flop until they release a phone that has a fully functional keyboard, that's were all the keys have a purpose and the user doesn't have to use the touch screen as part of the keyboard.

    Just look at the PC keyboard, Microsoft and others have tried to change it's shape and layout and after all these years they keyboard has reminded one or two typical layouts. BlackBerry has realize this and know that changing the keyboard the way hey have with the Passport is going to be disastrous for them!
    This is truth.

    And I will buy the phone.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 06:49 AM
  5. WorldwideRemix's Avatar
    It doesn't look that appealing to me, but I shall see when it's released.
    06-30-14 07:02 AM
  6. 018125's Avatar
    Imagine the scenario for a new buyer...

    "Oh this phone looks awesome! Great screen!"

    "But wait, where are the symbols on the keyboard?"

    "Oh they come up in a virtual keyboard?"

    "Errrrr, I think I'll pass, sounds annoying"

    Posted via CB10
    Tim Heard and lift like this.
    06-30-14 07:06 AM
  7. boyo66's Avatar
    Just buy the Classic if you're worried about the Passport keyboard.

    Z10STL100-2/10.2.1.3175
    calivol likes this.
    06-30-14 07:11 AM
  8. CeCoQ's Avatar
    Apparently people don't understand that pictures can tell a lot about how to use something.

    When you are in a text field or a document (whenever you have to type) one layer of keys will always be present.

    This is the one....
    Dear BlackBerry! There's still time to fix the Passport keyboard.-crackberry-image-3-.jpg


    Now you see that shift key at the bottom left of the screen? Yeah if you want to write in Caps. You need to hit that key (double hit to cap lock). And you can keep typing on the keyboard to type in caps.

    Now if you want special characters. Hit that virtual key on the bottom right. The "@ 123" key.

    Now once you type on that "@ 123" key.... abracadabra....


    Dear BlackBerry! There's still time to fix the Passport keyboard.-crackberry-image-1-.jpg

    No more space on the screen. Pretty much half of the screen is taken. You can type all these symbols (first three row) by hitting the corresponding key on the keyboard.

    And if you need more characters, you will hit that two dots (blue/gray) key on the virtual keyboard, or swipe down on the on-screen keyboard as it is is BB10 OS (lots of people don't know and use this), (or maybe passport will let you swipe down on the actual physical keyboard)


    Dear BlackBerry! There's still time to fix the Passport keyboard.-crackberry-image-2-.jpg

    And then if you want to dismiss the screen virtual keyboard you need to hit that button, arrow pointing down at the top right and then you get back to this.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CrackBerry Image(3).jpg 
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    If only we could use fact that the keys are large to add the special characters on bottom right and bottom left of each individual keys (yes smaller prints). Make one green and the other maybe blue. And then since we can't add buttons now, let's use some swipe gestures on physical keyboard when we want to type blue keys (special characters) or green keys (more special charaters),....

    Or maybe just add two more keys?? "Alt" and "sym"... where "alt" types the lower left symbols and "sym" the lower right symbols on each individual key?

    Then no more huge on-screen keyboard on top of the existing keyboard..... we will be good with just that one layers maybe? or maybe nothing at all. :-)


    Go team Big Screen ONLY for ever


    Dear BlackBerry! There's still time to fix the Passport keyboard.-crackberry-image.jpg

    A bit like that.... :-)

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by CeCoQ; 06-30-14 at 08:06 AM.
    06-30-14 07:49 AM
  9. smoothrunnings's Avatar
    This is truth.

    And I will buy the phone.

    Posted via CB10
    Only you and a few thousand people will buy the phone then.
    lift likes this.
    06-30-14 08:02 AM
  10. jhimmel's Avatar
    I'm more interested in comments from people who have actually tried it. The reviewer on front page seemed to like the typing experience, and the girl he handed it to seemed to like it also. I'll be watching as more hands-on reviews emerge.

    My initial reaction to this device was not good. However, after seeing more videos of the device in action, I am warming up considerably and am really starting to become interested.

    I am envisioning the Passport as a potentially awesome device for my work. I'm just still unsure of the ability of the device to make the transition to my after-work (leisure) activities. I have never been a two-phone person, and my Z30 is striking a reasonable balance. I see the Passport as probably better for me as a work device, and Z30 as better for personal use. Not sure yet what compromises I'd prefer to make.
    Thunderbuck and Mr4aces like this.
    06-30-14 08:15 AM
  11. JCMM's Avatar
    CeCoQ "Pretty much half of the screen is taken" What's wrong with that? Just picture you typing with the symbols panel opened.. you don't need to press the alt key anymore. your typing the letters with the physical keyboard and if you need symbols they are just there (on-screen) ready to be pressed, what can be better than that?

    that symbol's panel will only be available when you tap on a text field, when you are typing a message to someone you don't need that much of screen and still you have about 60% of the screen real state to watch what you are typing. I don't get it how this could be a bad thing. You cannot type that fast on other mobile device i guarantee.
    06-30-14 08:29 AM
  12. Banco's Avatar
    The thing that amuses me is that with all the missteps, with all the disasters, with all the problems that BlackBerry have had over the last few years, the one area where they have been consistently good, and acknowledged as such even by those who loathe the products themselves, is with keyboards. You'd have thought that given that, of all the things concerning this device, the one area where they might have earned a little bit of trust that they'll get it right is.....the keyboard.
    Mr4aces likes this.
    06-30-14 08:35 AM
  13. Rowan M's Avatar
    I don't miss the ALT key on my Z10. Nor will any IPhone or Android user I'd bet. Only people missing it (or believe they will miss it) are a handful of BlackBerry faithful (which is why we are getting the Classic).

    Posted via CB10
    I don't miss the ALT key on my Z10 either. I didn't have a hard time transitioning from my 9790 to the Z10 as the keyboard is just superb. I think the ones that complain more are the Q10 users... they're not used to swiping down.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 08:35 AM
  14. Rowan M's Avatar
    I just don't get the screen real estate issue with having the virtual keyboard pop up for a few seconds. It's not like it's there for the whole time that you are typing. I bet the Passport can display more texts, even with the pop up keyboard, than my Z10 when typing.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 08:47 AM
  15. jhimmel's Avatar
    The thing that amuses me is that with all the missteps, with all the disasters, with all the problems that BlackBerry have had over the last few years, the one area where they have been consistently good, and acknowledged as such even by those who loathe the products themselves, is with keyboards. You'd have thought that given that, of all the things concerning this device, the one area where they might have earned a little bit of trust that they'll get it right is.....the keyboard.
    Does that mean it should stay exactly the same until the end of time? That it could not possibly be improved upon? Even with technology that did not exist when the original BB keyboard was conceived? What they did back then was the beginning of something special. I'm willing to give this new idea a chance. The reviewer said it's the fastest he has ever typed... {shrug} They already have offerings for those who are absolutely hooked on the old way.
    06-30-14 08:58 AM
  16. Banco's Avatar
    Does that mean it should stay exactly the same until the end of time? That it could not possibly be improved upon? Even with technology that did not exist when the original BB keyboard was conceived? What they did back then was the beginning of something special. I'm willing to give this new idea a chance. The reviewer said it's the fastest he has ever typed... {shrug} They already have offerings for those who are absolutely hooked on the old way.
    No, it means that when they do something new that they are renowned for, a little trust that they know what they're doing wouldn't go amiss. If you hate it when it's released, say so then.
    06-30-14 09:01 AM
  17. ubizmo's Avatar
    When I'm entering text I'm not looking at pictures. I'm focused on what I'm writing. I don't care that the virtual part of the keyboard takes up screen space temporarily, since it goes away when I no longer need to enter symbols. For typing a period / full stop at the end of a sentence, I use the BlackBerry double space anyway.

    For other punctuation, reaching up with a thumb will be a new way to do it, but I don't have the impression it'll be crazy hard to learn. And I'm 60! I use my thumbs quite a lot now to select predicted words on my Q10, and in fact I find doing so easier than I found word-flicking on my Z10, which seemed to break the flow of text entry more.

    It's certainly possible that BlackBerry has implemented the keyboard on the Passport poorly but I really think it's premature to declare it a failure.

    As for the rest of the form of the device, the more I see, the more I like it.
    m1kr0, Thunderbuck and ghundiraj like this.
    06-30-14 09:06 AM
  18. II ARROWS's Avatar
    Does that mean it should stay exactly the same until the end of time? That it could not possibly be improved upon?
    By adding the capacitive capabilities without removing the typing capability.
    The reviewer said it's the fastest he has ever typed... {shrug}
    No, he didn't...
    06-30-14 09:35 AM
  19. Rowan M's Avatar
    No, he didn't...
    "My typing has been faster on this than it has been on any other BlackBerry" --- Ummmmmmm he did and he currently owns a Q10.

    Posted via CB10
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    06-30-14 09:44 AM
  20. Tim Heard's Avatar
    I agree with you that it's too late to turn back now, but they definitely could have improved the keyboard by adding numbers and symbols to the existing keys, not to mention a couple of additional buttons that possibly could have been user-defined. (Answer, camera, function, etc)

    For individuals who want phones with physical keyboards, the option off typing on the screen is not better, even if it does offer more options. I don't dispute that everything we have seen about the new keyboard is really cool. And I really want a screen with a large keyboard like that. However, I'm still pretty unhappy that I'm forced to use a virtual keyboard if I want to use this phone.

    You seem to think that all they have to do is drill a bunch of holes and stick some plastic buttons through there. I'm pretty sure that there is some pretty complicated hardware underneath. I'll bet those rows of buttons were there in the hardware design from day one with everything in the phone being built around it.

    There probably is months of testing going on with final hardware configuration. That's probably why we even are seeing the leak.

    With a virtual keyboard you would have a lot more flexibility. You could even modify the keyboard with a software update. With hardware keyboards you are probably stick with those keys from day one of the hardware design.
    06-30-14 09:45 AM
  21. Tim Heard's Avatar
    Exactly.

    My only concern is that you have to type on both physical keys and on the touchscreen. There is going to be a learning curve to do something that no other phone does. After who knows how long, Once you get used to that, then you would have a hard time going back to an all touch or physical only keyboard. This just seems illogical to me not innovative. Sure, it may seem cool and different now but is it REALLY better?
    There seems to be a huge divide between the all touch crowd and the physical keys crowd. There is good reason for that. People prefer one or the other. How is combining them going to be better? Just my 2 cents.
    lift likes this.
    06-30-14 09:48 AM
  22. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    If I have to look into the screen for numbers and punctuation marks then look down to find the corresponding key on the KB, then I would like the practicality of having them printed there on the KB with the letters, like the KB on the previous models. That way, I will not have to look around too much and don't have to interpret which key is dot and which is comma. Instead of there they are on the screen, it's much simpler and more practical to have them there on the KB.
    But again, let's see what the commercial version has to offer.
    Actually, you've got it backwards. The virtual keys are labeled with the physical keys that trigger them, and that makes more sense when you think about it. One, your fingers are actually on the keys and you'd have to move them to look at the keyboard. Two, labeling the physical keys would be confusing, considering that the Alt key is virtual as well.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    06-30-14 10:01 AM
  23. gnirkatto's Avatar
    When I'm entering text I'm not looking at pictures. I'm focused on what I'm writing. I don't care that the virtual part of the keyboard takes up screen space temporarily, since it goes away when I no longer need to enter symbols. For typing a period / full stop at the end of a sentence, I use the BlackBerry double space anyway.

    For other punctuation, reaching up with a thumb will be a new way to do it, but I don't have the impression it'll be crazy hard to learn. And I'm 60! I use my thumbs quite a lot now to select predicted words on my Q10, and in fact I find doing so easier than I found word-flicking on my Z10, which seemed to break the flow of text entry more.

    It's certainly possible that BlackBerry has implemented the keyboard on the Passport poorly but I really think it's premature to declare it a failure.

    As for the rest of the form of the device, the more I see, the more I like it.
    ...and I don't even think this will be needed.
    When typing on my Q, I remember the "codes" for certain symbols that I use most frequently, by heart. So whenever I e.g. need an "&", I hit the sym key and the J key right afterwards. I don't even have to look at the screen and what's going on there. I don't even notice that 3 lines of symbols overlap the screen. And, it takes less than a second until the display has disappeared again.
    As far as I can see on the published images, the Passport's KB seems work in the same way.
    Likewise, when needing a capital letter, I'm almost sure this can be achieved by pushing and holding the respective key. Only a caps lock will ned a tap on the touchscreen, as far as I can see.
    I'm also not too concerned about the symbols/special characters display taking too much screen space away. You don't typically type long text in symbols or special characters. Usually, you need one symbol, and then carry on typing with regular keys. Again, as far as I have seen on the images and videos that got published so far, there are only one or two lines displayed on the screen when typing "regular" text.

    So as a previous poster said, it's very unlikely that BB totally messed up the main feature that they are famous for. We will see soon.
    ubizmo and ghundiraj like this.
    06-30-14 10:18 AM
  24. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I'm going to assume that everyone complaining about the virtual num/sym keys haven't actually used the Q5/Q10, which use THE SAME virtual keys in the same layout.

    For one thing, it doesn't take up "half the screen" on the Passport (from the screenshots it looks like 1/4 to 1/3). That leaves a LOT of real estate.

    For another thing, a Passport user doesn't have to use the virtual Shift/Alt keys. Ever. Why? Because a letter can be capitalized just by holding it down. Capitalize the first two letters of a word and the Z10/Z30 vkb will make word suggestions in all caps. I'm sure the Passport will do the exact same thing.

    And that Alt key? Swipe down from the top of the kb to bring up the first page of symbols, swipe down a second time for the second page. Swipe down a third time to go back to letters. Easy peasy.

    I get that people are skeptical of the design ideas here, but you have no way to be sure if it actually needs improvement until you actually USE it. I'll keep an open mind; if there's one thing BlackBerry knows better than anybody else, it's keyboards.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    ghundiraj likes this.
    06-30-14 10:22 AM
  25. 018125's Avatar
    I'm going to assume that everyone complaining about the virtual num/sym keys haven't actually used the Q5/Q10, which use THE SAME virtual keys in the same layout.

    For one thing, it doesn't take up "half the screen" on the Passport (from the screenshots it looks like 1/4 to 1/3). That leaves a LOT of real estate.

    For another thing, a Passport user doesn't have to use the virtual Shift/Alt keys. Ever. Why? Because a letter can be capitalized just by holding it down. Capitalize the first two letters of a word and the Z10/Z30 vkb will make word suggestions in all caps. I'm sure the Passport will do the exact same thing.

    And that Alt key? Swipe down from the top of the kb to bring up the first page of symbols, swipe down a second time for the second page. Swipe down a third time to go back to letters. Easy peasy.

    I get that people are skeptical of the design ideas here, but you have no way to be sure if it actually needs improvement until you actually USE it. I'll keep an open mind; if there's one thing BlackBerry knows better than anybody else, it's keyboards.

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    I know someone who used it. He was overwhelmingly complimentary about the device, said he will buy it on day 1 at full price.

    Also said the typing experience sucked. Apparently (what a surprise), it's really annoying to use the touchscreen to type really common symbols when you're in full flow.

    Posted via CB10
    Tim Heard and lift like this.
    06-30-14 10:29 AM
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