07-11-14 09:41 AM
564 ... 1819202122 ...
tools
  1. CeCoQ's Avatar
    The screen is one inch bigger?

    The screen is 1.4" bigger. But just to do the math for you that equates to 111% more real estate. Yup. One hundred and eleven percent. That's more than twice the size to be clear.
    How do you get your 1.41" bigger?

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 07:54 AM
  2. CeCoQ's Avatar
    No, he wants a second virtual keyboard that tells him what virtual key press to insert that symbol.
    Does he have the on screen virtual keyboard activated on his PC? Maybe that's what he uses all the time to type faster. :-)

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 07:59 AM
  3. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    How do you get your 1.41" bigger?

    Posted via CB10
    Q10: 3.1"
    Passport: 4.5"
    CeCoQ likes this.
    07-09-14 08:38 AM
  4. ddbaloi's Avatar
    Nice


    Z30 heals,weed cure!
    07-09-14 08:43 AM
  5. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Umm...........you were comparing the Passport to the Q10 in that post and made it sound like it's "nothing more than just one inch bigger", right? I didn't mean to impress you in the sense of "a big screen" but more in sense of "a bigger screen than that of the Q10" since that was the point.

    And how does



    make any sense? Cm^2 = square centimeters = screen real estate. How can something that has a "very similar number of cm^2" have "by far more screen real estate"?

    Just to give you an impression on how much aspect ratio plays a role in terms of screen real estate, here are the numbers:

    4.5" 1:1 = 65.3 cm^2
    5.0" 16:9 = 68.9 cm^2

    So that - in your sense - MUCH bigger 5" display only equals 5.5% more screen real estate.

    So please stop acting as if the Passports 4.5" are comparable to a traditional 5" display in the sense of "diagonal = real estate".

    The point with the Note 3 was that the Passport, despite having a much more pocketable footprint vertically, has still a much bigger screen in one dimension than that monster called Note 3.
    1 inch, 1.4 inches....
    The essence of my post is still the same, because the Passport is just a bigger Q10 (with a crippled keyboard).
    This is the case and shouldn't be that hard to get, because both phones are keyboard phones.

    I also didn't talk about cm^2 in the context of screen size, but the overall phone.
    The Passport is pretty similar to the Note, going by the overall footprint.
    But the Note has more screen real estate overall. By far.
    Which is not surprising since one has a PKB and the other has a VBK.

    I didn't compare the Passport to the S4, or any other traditional 5 inch phone, because it doesn't make sense given the overall footprint of the Passport.
    I clearly said Note 3, a number of times in this and other threads already.

    You seem to like math....
    Would you mind calculating how much screen real estate is still there when the Passport starts letterboxing?

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 09:33 AM
  6. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    The Passport is pretty similar to the Note, going by the overall footprint.
    Yeah well overall it's 6 cm^2 bigger and 2,4 cm taller.

    But the Note has more screen real estate overall. By far.
    In overall screen real estate, yes, still one display side will always be 10 mm shorter.

    Which is not surprising since one has a PKB and the other has a VBK.
    Exactly, so what the hell is your point?
    07-09-14 10:53 AM
  7. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Yeah well overall it's 6 cm^2 bigger and 2,4 cm taller.



    In overall screen real estate, yes, still one display side will always be 10 mm shorter.



    Exactly, so what the hell is your point?
    That a comparison with a 5 inch phone makes no sense because of the overall footprint from the Passport.
    We are talking about Note dimensions here.

    So the Note loses out on 1cm on one side and gains how many more on the other side over the Passport?

    And obviously, my last point is the following:
    How much screen real-estate does the Passport lose, when the virtual keyboard pops up?
    About a 1/3 of the screen, no?
    Why make a physical keyboard phone, that already loses out on screen real-estate.... To then cripple it even harder through adding a virtual row and keyboard?

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 11:15 AM
  8. Tim Heard's Avatar
    Come on. You seem like a very bright person, but you seem to be laboring over this point.
    They keyboard is clearly being used differently than anyone has every conceived of using a keyboard.
    You can argue that it's lame, or stupid, or that you won't like it because they keys won't offer the firm
    responsiveness that you're used to. (One of my concerns.) However, it obviously is changing the way
    information is input with a keyboard. ... So it is a new input method. It's different in terms of mechanics,
    as well as the range of things that can be accomplished with the keyboard that couldn't be accomplished
    with a traditional keyboard.
    Yes, voice recognition was a new input method too, when it came out. And, like this keyboard, whatever
    voice recognition system you use, it has limitations and downsides, just like this keyboard innovation will.
    But seriously, you're not winning your case by just pretending that others aren't making valid points or that
    their definitions of "innovation" aren't valid.


    That's.... Probably a bit exaggerated.
    A new input method...

    Voice recognition, that was a new input method.
    But what the Passport has... No, not really.
    It has a keyboard and a touchscreen, like the Bold 9900/Torch/Q5/10/Classic.
    You have UI elements on the touchscreen while also having buttons to press on your keyboard.

    What is that new input method you mean?

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 11:24 AM
  9. Tim Heard's Avatar
    If you're being honest, then we may have to discuss a different title than "Crackberry Genius of Geniuses." ;-)
    Seriously, everyone here knows that you're bright enough to understand the point here, and that you are just refusing to concede that it's valid because you don't want to admit that you've lost on a particular point.
    And let me be 100% clear that I'm in agreement with you on some of your concerns. I just think you're overstating your case a lot, and aren't doing a good job of arguing the points you have made that are valid.
    This feels a lot like the "I know you are, but what am I?" heated discussions you might hear among 7 year olds. There's no winning on the merits of the arguments. Eventually one of the parties just gets tired and goes off to do something fun with the other kids.

    I still don't get what you mean, sorry :S

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    07-09-14 11:32 AM
  10. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Come on. You seem like a very bright person, but you seem to be laboring over this point.
    They keyboard is clearly being used differently than anyone has every conceived of using a keyboard.
    You can argue that it's lame, or stupid, or that you won't like it because they keys won't offer the firm
    responsiveness that you're used to. (One of my concerns.) However, it obviously is changing the way
    information is input with a keyboard. ... So it is a new input method. It's different in terms of mechanics,
    as well as the range of things that can be accomplished with the keyboard that couldn't be accomplished
    with a traditional keyboard.
    Yes, voice recognition was a new input method too, when it came out. And, like this keyboard, whatever
    voice recognition system you use, it has limitations and downsides, just like this keyboard innovation will.
    But seriously, you're not winning your case by just pretending that others aren't making valid points or that
    their definitions of "innovation" aren't valid.
    I ignored your other reply, because I gave you the definition and you still got it wrong.
    Should I respond to it?
    (@ definition of innovation)

    Edit:
    If you want to tell me, that the Passport has a new input method, I completely disagree.

    It has keys, a touchscreen and a trackpad.
    Minus the the trackpad (substitute it for a d-pad on other phones), this is a phone design we know for years.

    I don't get what's new, sorry. I don't see why that would be a new input method we haven't seen or used before.
    Contrary to voice recognition.
    And if that makes me dumb, I guess I can live with it.

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 11:35 AM
  11. Tim Heard's Avatar
    I have heard this argument several times, and it's absolutely absurd. Who types with their thumbs covering all of the keys? I have a physical keyboard with symbols on the keys too. To my knowledge, except maybe in the first few days of learning they keyboard, I have never stopped and had to ask myself where the 7 key was, because it was covered up, or any other symbol.
    There have been instances in which I didn't have my glasses on, and couldn't see a key clearly, but a virtual screen wouldn't improve that. Besides, the Passport keys are huge by comparison to the keys on my current phone.

    But then you need to look down at the keys and move your thumbs to see what symbol is printed is printed on the key.

    I'd prefer the virtual heads up display.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    07-09-14 11:38 AM
  12. 018125's Avatar
    I ignored your other reply, because I gave you the definition and you still got it wrong.
    Should I respond to it?
    (@ definition of innovation)

    Edit:
    If you want to tell me, that the Passport has a new input method, I completely disagree.

    It has keys, a touchscreen and a trackpad.
    Minus the the trackpad (substitute it for a d-pad on other phones), this is a phone design we know for years.

    I don't get what's new, sorry. I don't see why that would be a new input method we haven't seen or used before.
    Contrary to voice recognition.
    And if that makes me dumb, I guess I can live with it.

    Posted via CB10
    Your interpretation of the word innovation is wrong. Nobody here as any interest in teaching you English, so let's get back to talking about this phone.

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 12:07 PM
  13. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Your interpretation of the word innovation is wrong. Nobody here as any interest in teaching you English, so let's get back to talking about this phone.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't think english is the problem.
    German and French are my native languages, and the definition of innovation is the same in all 3.

    And all 3 have very well defined differences between invention and innovation.

    Do I understand it correctly, that you want to know why your understanding of the word is wrong?
    (I'll be fair though and tell you right now that I studied economics, and that I know how to define the word innovation).

    I also asked twice already (not you) to tell us what exactly made the iPhone innovative.
    I have the feeling that the misunderstandings already start there.
    (hint: it's not the form factor)

    People call the Passport innovative, and through doing that, they show very clearly that they don't understand the word.
    So I guess teaching english, is necessary to talk about the Passport.
    Unless we drop the marketing buzz words.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 07-09-14 at 12:38 PM.
    07-09-14 12:23 PM
  14. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    So the Note loses out on 1cm on one side and gains how many more on the other side over the Passport?
    The question for me is: how much do you gain in terms of actual user experience? Can that 45 mm more height or width (depending on orientation) make up for the other 10 mm shorter side depending on the content? The way I see it is that either you have to scroll more on the Note (landscape) or you have to zoom more (portrait)
    .
    07-09-14 12:26 PM
  15. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    The question for me is: how much do you gain in terms of actual user experience? Can that 45 mm more height or width (depending on orientation) make up for the other 10 mm shorter side depending on the content? The way I see it is that either you have to scroll more on the Note (landscape) or you have to zoom more (portrait)
    .
    And I ask myself why it would make sense to go with that huge form factor bordering (or maybe even exceeding) on Note 3 dimensions, and then not include a full physical keyboard.

    But it's even better, they actually go for a virtual keyboard as well, to further lessen the screen real estate.

    What's the point of that?

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 12:29 PM
  16. Tim Heard's Avatar
    Clearly the discussion is now about semantics.
    Let me ask a related question. Was it innovative to put a flat lid on the bottom of a bottle of shampoo or mayonnaise?
    Clearly, the products didn't change, and we were still dealing with basically the same mechanics. You open a lid, pour
    out the shampoo, or squeeze out the ketchup or mayonnaise, then you close the container and put it back.
    I'd argue that it was innovative though. It offered an improvement in user experience, and it was changing a product in a meaningful way that hadn't been thought of before. We still use the contents of the bottles int he same way, but no longer have to hold mostly empty containers upside-down and shake them vigorously in order to get the product out.


    I don't think english is the problem.
    German and French are my native languages, and the definition of innovation is the same in all 3.

    And all 3 have very well defined difference between invention and innovation.

    Do I understand it correctly, that you want to know why your understanding of the word is wrong?
    (I'll be fair though and tell you right now that I studied economics, and that I know how to define the word innovation).

    I also asked twice already (not you) to tell us what exactly made the iPhone innovative.
    I have the feeling that the misunderstandings already start there.
    (hint: it's not the form factor)

    People call the Passport innovative, and through doing that, they show very clearly that they don't understand the word.
    So I guess teaching english, is necessary to talk about the Passport.
    Unless we drop the marketing buzz words.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    07-09-14 12:40 PM
  17. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    And I ask myself why it would make sense to go with that huge form factor bordering (or maybe even exceeding) on Note 3 dimensions, and then not include a full physical keyboard.

    But it's even better, they actually go for a virtual keyboard as well, to further lessen the screen real estate.

    What's the point of that?

    Posted via CB10
    Firstly let's get clear about the footprint/dimensions discussion once and for all:

    Note 3: 119 cm^2, longer side 151 mm
    Passport: 113 cm^2, longer side 127 mm
    Galaxy S5: 104 cm^2, longer side 142 mm

    It clearly doesn't exceed the Note 3. It's sitting somewhere between a Note and a Galaxy S and has notably the shortest height and the widest screen of all flagship phones. And a keyboard.

    And please stop talking about "lessen screen real estate". Did anybody ever talk about lessening screen real estate on full touch phones although those have to always display the entire VKB when entering text? NOPE.
    07-09-14 12:56 PM
  18. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Clearly the discussion is now about semantics.
    Let me ask a related question. Was it innovative to put a flat lid on the bottom of a bottle of shampoo or mayonnaise?
    Clearly, the products didn't change, and we were still dealing with basically the same mechanics. You open a lid, pour
    out the shampoo, or squeeze out the ketchup or mayonnaise, then you close the container and put it back.
    I'd argue that it was innovative though. It offered an improvement in user experience, and it was changing a product in a meaningful way that hadn't been thought of before. We still use the contents of the bottles int he same way, but no longer have to hold mostly empty containers upside-down and shake them vigorously in order to get the product out.
    Let's look at the definition of innovation, and see if your example qualifies.

    "Innovation is about finding a better way of doing something.[1] Innovation can be viewed as the application of better solutions that meet new requirements, in-articulated needs, or existing market needs.[2] This is accomplished through more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are readily available to markets, governments and society. The term innovation can be defined as something original and, as a consequence, new, that "breaks into" the market or society. A definition consistent with these aspects would be the following: "An innovation is something original, new, and important in whatever field that breaks in to a market or society".[3]

    While something novel is often described as an innovation, in economics, management science, and other fields of practice and analysis it is generally considered a process that brings together various novel ideas in a way that they have an impact on society.

    Innovation differs from invention in that innovation refers to the use of a better and, as a result, novel idea or method, whereas invention refers more directly to the creation of the idea or method itself.

    Innovation differs from improvement in that innovation refers to the notion of doing something different rather than doing the same thing better."
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation

    It qualifies perfectly for the conclusion of the first paragraph.
    "An innovation is something original, new, and important in whatever field that breaks in to a market or society"
    ^
    Important, new, changed the market / society.

    I am probably not old enough to know, if our new lid implies the following and how it changed things back then:
    "a process that brings together various novel ideas in a way that they have an impact on society."
    But I have the feeling that it might count.

    The third paragraph gets tricky.
    Our flat lid is obviously an invention, if it wasn't existant before. This is where my lacking knowledge is a problem. If however, that flat lid was used before already, then it is no invention.
    It definitely was a novel and better way to handle shampoo though.

    Now onto the last paragraph...
    That's the most tricky one for that flat lid.
    Is the flat lid different enough from those before it, to not only be considered an improvement?
    I'd say no. The flat lid, is still just a lid.

    To deserve the innovation tag, a product or process, has to fulfil ALL of those requirements posted in the definition above, and the lid isn't compliant with one of them (improvement/innovation).

    And the Passport as a whole struggles with far more than the last point.

    Edit:
    Yes, this seems to be about semantics.
    If someone uses the word innovative, combined with BlackBerry Passport, he has to prove that the Passport actually qualifies.
    (unless he works in a marketing department. They would try to sell you a horse as being innovative)

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 07-09-14 at 01:15 PM.
    07-09-14 12:59 PM
  19. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Firstly let's get clear about the footprint/dimensions discussion once and for all:

    Note 3: 119 cm^2, longer side 151 mm
    Passport: 113 cm^2, longer side 127 mm
    Galaxy S5: 104 cm^2, longer side 142 mm

    It clearly doesn't exceed the Note 3. It's sitting somewhere between a Note and a Galaxy S and has notably the shortest height and the widest screen of all flagship phones. And a keyboard.

    And please stop talking about "lessen screen real estate". Did anybody ever talk about lessening screen real estate on full touch phones although those have to always display the entire VKB when entering text? NOPE.
    I don't care that much about the cm^2, even though they show very clearly that the Passport is closer to a Note (+6 for the Note and -9 for the S5. The S5 has a 5.1 inch screen though) than a Galaxy.
    But for being closer to a Note than a Galaxy, having more than 1 inch less screen size is nothing impressive...

    Do you agree or disagree, that a virtual keyboard on a phone (that isn't a slider) that is combined with a physical keyboard, takes away more theoretical screen real estate than a phone that only has a virtual keyboard?

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 01:09 PM
  20. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    I don't care that much about the cm^2, even though they show very clearly that the Passport is closer to a Note (+6 for the Note and -9 for the S5. The S5 has a 5.1 inch screen though) than a Galaxy.
    But for being closer to a Note than a Galaxy, having more than 1 inch less screen size is nothing impressive...

    Do you agree or disagree, that a virtual keyboard on a phone (that isn't a slider) that is combined with a physical keyboard, takes away more theoretical screen real estate than a phone that only has a virtual keyboard?

    Posted via CB10
    So you count the PKB as blockes screen real estate. Right, I'm out.
    07-09-14 02:16 PM
  21. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    So you count the PKB as blockes screen real estate. Right, I'm out.
    Obviously?
    That's the trade off, when you opt for a physical keyboard.

    You take tactile feedback and real keys, over screen estate.
    So what happens when you add a virtual keyboard to that construction?
    You further diminish the theoretically available screen real estate.

    Which is counter-intuitive and not logical at all, when the physical keyboard already does that.
    Which is, apart from usability troubles, my biggest gripe with the Passport's keyboard.

    Losing more screen size than needed, is exactly what the VKB solution does.

    Posted via CB10
    CeCoQ likes this.
    07-09-14 03:18 PM
  22. 018125's Avatar
    I have to be honest and say that I'm a little concerned that the only people who seem to agree with me are the crazies.

    Maybe I should rethink this whole thing...

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    07-09-14 05:37 PM
  23. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I have to be honest and say that I'm a little concerned that the only people who seem to agree with me are the crazies.

    Maybe I should rethink this whole thing...

    Posted via CB10
    I had the same thought :S
    That's a concern....
    Damn...

    Posted via CB10
    07-09-14 06:41 PM
  24. jojon2se's Avatar
    What about those of us who agree with both sides? :P
    app_Developer likes this.
    07-09-14 06:45 PM
  25. menshawy's Avatar
    I just came here to put the comment number 500

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    07-09-14 07:09 PM
564 ... 1819202122 ...

Similar Threads

  1. White Verizon BlackBerry Z10
    By ajst222 in forum Buy, Sell, Trade - Sold / Archived
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-09-14, 10:25 PM
  2. Blackberry Flip phone
    By Valetta bloodstern in forum Developers Lounge
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-01-14, 08:50 AM
  3. BlackBerry Z30 available at 25K INR on Flipkart
    By Anubhav Nagpal in forum BlackBerry Z30
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-01-14, 12:45 AM
  4. BlackBerry shows off the Z3 in Indonesia with two commercials
    By CrackBerry News in forum CrackBerry.com News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-30-14, 01:40 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD