07-11-14 08:41 AM
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  1. lift's Avatar
    Dude this is the fourth comment in the row of yours I read the last 5 minutes and OMG are you annoying.
    Sorry if I annoy you (and obviously some others). I'm done with this topic. Seems like I am the only one that is not in love with this phone for some reason. Moving on.
    07-06-14 10:08 PM
  2. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    Sorry if I annoy you (and obviously some others). I'm done with this topic. Seems like I am the only one that is not in love with this phone for some reason. Moving on.
    You're not the only one. In fact, come September I won't be surprised when everyone realizes that the vast majority of smart phone users don't like it either.

    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    07-06-14 10:41 PM
  3. lift's Avatar
    You're not the only one. In fact, come September I won't be surprised when everyone realizes that the vast majority of smart phone users don't like it either.

    Posted via CB10
    Thanks. I'm feeling a lot of hate for my comments. Nice to know I am not alone.
    07-06-14 10:54 PM
  4. Dr_Vancouver's Avatar
    Right. I would prefer it if I had the option to not have a big virtual keyboard pop up every time I need a symbol/number that isn't in the contextual menu. One thing that would really help (wait for it, this is revolutionary), is if the symbols and numbers were printed on the keys.

    A vkb is a fine compromise for extended/uncommon symbols, like we saw on the q10.

    Are we all in agreement yet?

    Posted via CB10
    Agreed. Let's face it, I'll replace my Q10 with a Passport regardless... but a fix to this problem is easy (in the scheme of things) and should be strongly considered before launch of the hardware. What I will hate to have happen is a "Passport 2" launch shortly after the Passport with the keyboard the Passport should have had all along- being stuck with a "Passport 1" after that would be infuriating.

    Posted via CB10 on my Q10
    07-06-14 10:59 PM
  5. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    Agreed. Let's face it, I'll replace my Q10 with a Passport regardless... but a fix to this problem is easy (in the scheme of things) and should be strongly considered before launch of the hardware. What I will hate to have happen is a "Passport 2" launch shortly after the Passport with the keyboard the Passport should have had all along- being stuck with a "Passport 1" after that would be infuriating.

    Posted via CB10 on my Q10
    This is why it's important to send the message to BlackBerry by not buying a broken/crippled product. My money is staying with me until they wise up and start listening.

    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    07-06-14 11:17 PM
  6. dejanh's Avatar
    That was pretty funny and I was not trying to be insulting.
    You made some great points. It is only my opinion that this device won't sell. Everyone has opinions on this device, both good and bad. People form opinions usually pretty quickly and I would think I am smart enough to know what would work for me or not. If this phone seems like the perfect device for some people out there than that's great.
    Again, I am just voicing my opinion because I am worried for the future of BlackBerry and hope somehow all of this will work out for the better.
    There is no doubt in my mind that this is a polarizing device. I'm the type that just likes to tinker with technology and try new experimental things. Experience has thought me that I cannot judge something until I've had the opportunity to use it thoroughly so I'm applying the same thing to the Passport. For me this seems like a neat device to try. Will it be a success? We'll see, but one thing is for sure, I do like the fact that Blackberry is at least trying to differentiate even if the Passport isn't the perfect device for everyone.

    *hugs all around*

    Off topic, why is the word bu-tt censored? Can't get more innocent than that...

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    07-06-14 11:22 PM
  7. Raestloz's Avatar
    I'm... not the only person that when seeing the images in the original post go "Oh hey, now we can customize the position of symbols and numbers!"

    Like... you know, the BlackBerry OS devices have this funny symbol layout where the numbers are on the left side, like in Swiftkey. BlackBerry 10 devices have the numbers on the top row, left to right 1-0.

    With the Passport's system, maybe now we can have the best of both worlds, you can either customize it to fit other BlackBerry 10 virtual keyboards or get it to be like the good old days. Maybe you can have an option where you need to tap twice to get the symbols area show, or maybe not considering the need to display which ones will get typed, dunno.

    I must say that the idea that half the screen will be trapped everytime I press alt is idiocy, but we'll see how things turn out.

    In the meantime, people would rather reject change

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.3175
    07-06-14 11:28 PM
  8. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    Again, I am just voicing my opinion because I am worried for the future of BlackBerry...
    Yep and my point is that you should be even more concerned about BlackBerry if they were just going to crap out something like a Z50 instead of a Passport.

    The Passport is that iconic and polarizing that even people who dismiss it for its design will take a Z50 more serious when it launches six months later. My opinion.
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    07-07-14 01:09 AM
  9. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    You still just don't get it, do you? This is nothing like the Q10 arrangement. Why do you keep repeating that?

    The Q10 only displays the vkb for extended/uncommon symbols. Other symbols are accessed via the ALT key and the physical keys.

    Now that you understand this (surely you can't keep repeating misinformation), can we agree?

    Posted via CB10
    The fundamental difference is that the vkb on the Passport does come up more often, since you need it for all numbers. Fine, you have me there.

    It takes up somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of the screen. It might be a problem for me, it might not. I'll have to TRY IT before I say for sure.
    07-07-14 09:54 AM
  10. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    That was pretty funny and I was not trying to be insulting.
    You made some great points. It is only my opinion that this device won't sell. Everyone has opinions on this device, both good and bad. People form opinions usually pretty quickly and I would think I am smart enough to know what would work for me or not. If this phone seems like the perfect device for some people out there than that's great.
    Again, I am just voicing my opinion because I am worried for the future of BlackBerry and hope somehow all of this will work out for the better.
    Here's the thing. Of course you're entitled to judge what will and won't work for you. It's when you start to speculate what everyone else will or won't want that it gets presumptuous.

    For my own sake, I've felt especially insulted by posts suggesting I'm some kind of blind fanboi or that I'm lying on some level when I say I'm interested in the design and want to give it a chance.

    Based on speculation and early screenshots, I was pretty dubious of the BB10 virtual keyboard in general, but actually USING IT impressed me very quickly. I have a lot of confidence in BlackBerry's ability to design a new keyboard device.
    07-07-14 10:01 AM
  11. Tim Heard's Avatar
    I'm in a similar camp in the sense that I was pretty dubious initially and have warmed up to it a bit. The early pictures were not a fair representation of the device.

    I really *want* this phone to be something that would work for me but have 2 major concerns:
    1. That the keys won't provide much in terms of tactile feedback and are essentially "mushy" for lack of a better word. It would seem that they would have to be very soft and not provide much resistance at all for them to work as a track pad.
    2. That I will have to rely a lot on tapping on the glass for numbers and alternate keys, which simply won't work for me.

    You're absolutely correct in having repeatedly said that we'll have to wait and see what it's really like. That's one thing that has me a little anxious. I suspect that a lot of people are going to love this phone, but I'm going to need to hold it in my hands and really check it out before I make a decision, and I'm worried that we won't be seeing it in any AT&T stores, even if it will run on their network.


    Here's the thing. Of course you're entitled to judge what will and won't work for you. It's when you start to speculate what everyone else will or won't want that it gets presumptuous.

    For my own sake, I've felt especially insulted by posts suggesting I'm some kind of blind fanboi or that I'm lying on some level when I say I'm interested in the design and want to give it a chance.

    Based on speculation and early screenshots, I was pretty dubious of the BB10 virtual keyboard in general, but actually USING IT impressed me very quickly. I have a lot of confidence in BlackBerry's ability to design a new keyboard device.
    07-07-14 10:20 AM
  12. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I'm in a similar camp in the sense that I was pretty dubious initially and have warmed up to it a bit. The early pictures were not a fair representation of the device.

    I really *want* this phone to be something that would work for me but have 2 major concerns:
    1. That the keys won't provide much in terms of tactile feedback and are essentially "mushy" for lack of a better word. It would seem that they would have to be very soft and not provide much resistance at all for them to work as a track pad.
    2. That I will have to rely a lot on tapping on the glass for numbers and alternate keys, which simply won't work for me.

    You're absolutely correct in having repeatedly said that we'll have to wait and see what it's really like. That's one thing that has me a little anxious. I suspect that a lot of people are going to love this phone, but I'm going to need to hold it in my hands and really check it out before I make a decision, and I'm worried that we won't be seeing it in any AT&T stores, even if it will run on their network.
    You know you won't actually have to "tap" on the glass for numbers; the vkb maps to the physical keys and you can just press the physical key that the numbers map to. I would think that in a matter of days you won't even have to refer to the vkb to see which key maps where.

    As for the kb feel, yes, I read that "mushy" comment in the review, but feel is one thing that actually can be fiddled with before they reach full production. It might be improved. And it might not be "that bad", either. We'll have to see.

    I do suspect that some of the most vocal critics of this phone will actually be BlackBerry keyboard diehards, because this phone messes with the traditional formula so much (many comments in this thread suggest that to me, at least). To me, I'd call the Passport scheme more of a "BB10 touch keyboard with physical keys" than a "BlackBerry keyboard with touch".
    07-07-14 10:30 AM
  13. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    You know you won't actually have to "tap" on the glass for numbers; the vkb maps to the physical keys and you can just press the physical key that the numbers map to. I would think that in a matter of days you won't even have to refer to the vkb to see which key maps where.

    As for the kb feel, yes, I read that "mushy" comment in the review, but feel is one thing that actually can be fiddled with before they reach full production. It might be improved. And it might not be "that bad", either. We'll have to see.

    I do suspect that some of the most vocal critics of this phone will actually be BlackBerry keyboard diehards, because this phone messes with the traditional formula so much (many comments in this thread suggest that to me, at least). To me, I'd call the Passport scheme more of a "BB10 touch keyboard with physical keys" than a "BlackBerry keyboard with touch".
    The only BlackBerry keyboard phone I ever owned was a Torch.
    The only keyboard phones I owned were sliders (and whatever you call a Nokia Communicator).

    I currently own a Z10.
    I don't care at all for the Classic/Q because of the screen size.

    So, the Passport interests me. But not to the point where I'd want a crippled typing experience.
    Which, conceptually, it must have.

    Also, if you've used a virtual keyboard, you should know that it "levels the content" every time it appears, which can make navigation a little bit awkward.
    But that's not a problem when you are simply typing, and not navigating around much.
    It's also no problem, when you type special characters, because the keyboard is already there anyway.

    But on the Passport, you will "level the content" every single time when you want to type a special character.
    Sounds awesome for navigation and orientation purposes, don't you think?

    Posted via CB10
    07-07-14 10:41 AM
  14. 018125's Avatar
    Here's the thing. Of course you're entitled to judge what will and won't work for you. It's when you start to speculate what everyone else will or won't want that it gets presumptuous.

    For my own sake, I've felt especially insulted by posts suggesting I'm some kind of blind fanboi or that I'm lying on some level when I say I'm interested in the design and want to give it a chance.

    Based on speculation and early screenshots, I was pretty dubious of the BB10 virtual keyboard in general, but actually USING IT impressed me very quickly. I have a lot of confidence in BlackBerry's ability to design a new keyboard device.
    It's taken you about 20 posts across 16 pages to finally acknowledge that what you've been saying about the Q10 keyboard (repeatedly) is false.

    Forgive me for assuming that you're "some kind of blind fanboi", but you made it really difficult for me to think anything to the contrary.

    You know what? I think most of us may finally be on the same page

    - We like the look of the device.
    - We love that it's something new/innovative.
    - We suspect that the vkb popping up when we need a non-contextual number/symbol MIGHT be annoying (a solution which could prevent this is to print the numbers and symbols on the keyboard like the q10).

    If only you hadn't jumped to the defence of BlackBerry every time you sniffed a somewhat negative post, we may well have all agreed on page 1.



    Posted via CB10
    07-07-14 11:06 AM
  15. lift's Avatar
    It's taken you about 20 posts across 16 pages to finally acknowledge that what you've been saying about the Q10 keyboard (repeatedly) is false.

    Forgive me for assuming that you're "some kind of blind fanboi", but you made it really difficult for me to think anything to the contrary.

    You know what? I think most of us may finally be on the same page

    - We like the look of the device.
    - We love that it's something new/innovative.
    - We suspect that the vkb popping up when we need a non-contextual number/symbol MIGHT be annoying (a solution which could prevent this is to print the numbers and symbols on the keyboard like the q10).

    If only you hadn't jumped to the defence of BlackBerry every time you sniffed a somewhat negative post, we may well have all agreed on page 1.



    Posted via CB10
    I do not agree with your points, as do many others. The points I do not agree on are:
    - "We like the look of the device". Absolutely no way, many others agree.
    - "We love that it's something new/innovative". I agree it's new, but I do not believe it is innovative.
    - "We suspect that the vkb popping up when we need a non-contextual number/symbol MIGHT be annoying (a solution which could prevent this is to print the numbers and symbols on the keyboard like the q10)". I'm not a physical keyboard guy at all, but this one I agree with.
    --TommesJay-- likes this.
    07-07-14 11:23 AM
  16. Tim Heard's Avatar
    I have no problem with any of Thunderbuck's posts.
    I think one issue is there have been different ideas regarding what "fixing" they keyboard would involve. If fixing it means adding additional keys, then it is definitely too late. We could maybe hope for a revised layout if a Passport 2 comes along.
    If the "fix" involves adding printed numbers and symbols on what are already mostrously huge keys when compared to other QWERTY phone keys, then that should be an easy fix. And it definitely isn't too late. Regardless of whether they original designers feel it's necessary, or even like the idea, clearly a LOT of people are pretty vocal about wanting them added.


    It's taken you about 20 posts across 16 pages to finally acknowledge that what you've been saying about the Q10 keyboard (repeatedly) is false.

    Forgive me for assuming that you're "some kind of blind fanboi", but you made it really difficult for me to think anything to the contrary.

    You know what? I think most of us may finally be on the same page

    - We like the look of the device.
    - We love that it's something new/innovative.
    - We suspect that the vkb popping up when we need a non-contextual number/symbol MIGHT be annoying (a solution which could prevent this is to print the numbers and symbols on the keyboard like the q10).

    If only you hadn't jumped to the defence of BlackBerry every time you sniffed a somewhat negative post, we may well have all agreed on page 1.



    Posted via CB10
    07-07-14 11:32 AM
  17. 018125's Avatar
    I do not agree with your points, as do many others. The points I do not agree on are:
    - "We like the look of the device". Absolutely no way, many others agree.
    - "We love that it's something new/innovative". I agree it's new, but I do not believe it is innovative.
    - "We suspect that the vkb popping up when we need a non-contextual number/symbol MIGHT be annoying (a solution which could prevent this is to print the numbers and symbols on the keyboard like the q10)". I'm not a physical keyboard guy at all, but this one I agree with.
    The looks of the device are entirely subjective and you're entitled to your opinion.

    Whether the Passport is innovative or not is not up for debate. It is. Time will tell whether the innovation is adopted by the market.

    BlackBerry already has a fantastic option for people who aren't "physical keyboard guys" like yourself. I'm typing on my Z30 right now and I've been in love with it since day 1.

    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    07-07-14 11:33 AM
  18. 018125's Avatar
    I have no problem with any of Thunderbuck's posts.
    I think one issue is there have been different ideas regarding what "fixing" they keyboard would involve. If fixing it means adding additional keys, then it is definitely too late. We could maybe hope for a revised layout if a Passport 2 comes along.
    If the "fix" involves adding printed numbers and symbols on what are already mostrously huge keys when compared to other QWERTY phone keys, then that should be an easy fix. And it definitely isn't too late. Regardless of whether they original designers feel it's necessary, or even like the idea, clearly a LOT of people are pretty vocal about wanting them added.
    You may well not have a problem with his posts, but it's not my OPINION that he has lied, or at the very least blindly spread misinformation. It's a fact that he has - repeatedly.

    He has failed to acknowledge the corrections multiple times and ignored many questions, while continuing to defend his stance.

    If that's not a problem then fine, but I'll continue to call him out on it if it continues.

    Posted via CB10
    07-07-14 11:38 AM
  19. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    The looks of the device are entirely subjective and you're entitled to your opinion.

    Whether the Passport is innovative or not is not up for debate. It is. Time will tell whether the innovation is adopted by the market.

    BlackBerry already has a fantastic option for people who aren't "physical keyboard guys" like yourself. I'm typing on my Z30 right now and I've been in love with it since day 1.

    Posted via CB10
    First time I disagree with you, damn...

    I don't consider the Passport innovative.
    In the end, it's a huge Q10.
    Which makes the Passport as innovative as.... A 20 inch screen over a 17 inch one?

    The rest, yes, I am mostly with you.

    Posted via CB10
    07-07-14 11:47 AM
  20. Tim Heard's Avatar
    Meh. I think you could be overstating things, but don't really care.
    I *will* say that you're treading pretty close to the line in terms of what's acceptable here.
    We're free to debate opinions all day long. It's *not* appropriate to call out users and make the discussions about them.
    The fact that you're actually targeting one of the moderators, who has volunteered countless hours here, just makes
    your line of reasoning even more questionable. ... You have every right to disagree with him, as I'm sure he would say.
    Calling him a liar ... Might be going a bit too far.


    You may well not have a problem with his posts, but it's not my OPINION that he has lied, or at the very least blindly spread misinformation. It's a fact that he has - repeatedly.

    He has failed to acknowledge the corrections multiple times and ignored many questions, while continuing to defend his stance.

    If that's not a problem then fine, but I'll continue to call him out on it if it continues.

    Posted via CB10
    grover5 likes this.
    07-07-14 11:50 AM
  21. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    First time I disagree with you, damn...

    I don't consider the Passport innovative.
    In the end, it's a huge Q10.
    Which makes the Passport as innovative as.... A 20 inch screen over a 17 inch one?

    The rest, yes, I am mostly with you.

    Posted via CB10
    Doesn't make sense. Being huge already makes it a whole lot different to a Q10, because the size is a main differentiating factor for smartphone segments.

    As is having a keyboard at this size.

    As is having a touch enabled hardware keyboard.

    As is having a 1:1 screen of this size, which makes the widest screen on the entire market by a long shot in a relatively compact device.
    07-07-14 11:55 AM
  22. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    I'm not a physical keyboard guy at all
    Then why even bother commenting on this product? I don't get it. OF COURSE it's ugly then to you and OF COURSE there isn't any functionality in it you care about that could make up for its looks. OMG.
    07-07-14 11:58 AM
  23. deltact's Avatar
    I guess a lot of the issues about the changing vkb would be resolved if the rumour of e-ink keys had been true. Alas...it was only a dream

    Posted via CB10 on Z10
    07-07-14 12:02 PM
  24. dejanh's Avatar
    I guess a lot of the issues about the changing vkb would be resolved if the rumour of e-ink keys had been true. Alas...it was only a dream

    Posted via CB10 on Z10
    That wasn't even a credible rumor. It was made up by a handful of users here, that's all.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    07-07-14 12:16 PM
  25. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    First time I disagree with you, damn...

    I don't consider the Passport innovative.
    In the end, it's a huge Q10.
    Which makes the Passport as innovative as.... A 20 inch screen over a 17 inch one?

    The rest, yes, I am mostly with you.

    Posted via CB10
    No, the Passport is not just "a huge Q10". The input system is a completely new hybrid physical/touch keyboard system that--if it works--could be revolutionary.

    And it's not just the larger screen, either. The Passport's screen is large enough and dense enough to display content in 16:9 vertically or horizontally. The vertical display will eliminate the scaling problems from the Q10 (a fair number of Android apps won't work on the Q10/Q5 just because UI elements wind up outside the window and can't be reached). This is also a fairly distinctive feature; I know I'VE never seen a phone that does this.

    And, finally, the Passport looks like no other phone out there right now. The style will certainly attract attention far more than the 9900-like Q10.
    07-07-14 12:16 PM
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