07-11-14 08:41 AM
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  1. Timbosaurus's Avatar
    The rattle-throwing over this keyboard has been ridiculous. I like the Q10 keyboard, I also like what I've seen so far of the Passport keyboard. It may take some adjusting to, and I may end up preferring the Q10 keyboard once I've used both. I am pretty certain, however, that I will manage just fine with either, and that for many people (importantly, people who aren't currently BB users) are likely to find the simpler keyboard on the Passport less confusing, and easier to use.

    The idea of amalgamating the flexibility of a touch-keyboard, which which billions of people are already familiar, with a simple QWERTY is arguably the most commercially sensible idea.

    There are two ways to look at it: As a downgrade for QWERTY users into part-touch, or an upgrade for touch users into mostly-QWERTY. Which group do you think is bigger?
    07-04-14 06:42 AM
  2. CeCoQ's Avatar
    The real issue is that people haven't even seen the keyboard in action, but they already know that something could be wrong.

    However I am sure the Passport we are seeing here and there is a final product. So we will just deal with it. Unless we are really really lucky and Chen heard our prayers.

    Posted via CB10
    07-04-14 06:56 AM
  3. Vorkosigan's Avatar
    Who? The missing link?

    Oh, sorry. He must not be an actual QWERTY guy. Doesn't like the alt key he says, ha! This guy's got jokes!

    Posted via CB10
    You should be more careful of your assumptions.

    First of all - girl not guy.

    Second - the Z10 is the first non-qwerty phone I've had.


    It's simply once I started using a quick down swipe to get to special characters, using the alt key feels way more like an extra step.

    Of course, if I went back to a qwerty I'm sure I could get used to it. With the Passport it looks like I won't have to. I'll have the best of both worlds. Everything I love about a pkb and everything I love about my Z10 keyboard.

    Can't wait to try it.

    Posted via CB10
    Timbosaurus and awindsr like this.
    07-04-14 06:58 AM
  4. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    The rattle-throwing over this keyboard has been ridiculous. I like the Q10 keyboard, I also like what I've seen so far of the Passport keyboard. It may take some adjusting to, and I may end up preferring the Q10 keyboard once I've used both. I am pretty certain, however, that I will manage just fine with either, and that for many people (importantly, people who aren't currently BB users) are likely to find the simpler keyboard on the Passport less confusing, and easier to use.

    The idea of amalgamating the flexibility of a touch-keyboard, which which billions of people are already familiar, with a simple QWERTY is arguably the most commercially sensible idea.

    There are two ways to look at it: As a downgrade for QWERTY users into part-touch, or an upgrade for touch users into mostly-QWERTY. Which group do you think is bigger?
    Exactly what I'm thinking, right on point and very well put . Thanks.
    awindsr and Timbosaurus like this.
    07-04-14 09:59 AM
  5. 018125's Avatar
    You should be more careful of your assumptions.

    First of all - girl not guy.

    Second - the Z10 is the first non-qwerty phone I've had.


    It's simply once I started using a quick down swipe to get to special characters, using the alt key feels way more like an extra step.

    Of course, if I went back to a qwerty I'm sure I could get used to it. With the Passport it looks like I won't have to. I'll have the best of both worlds. Everything I love about a pkb and everything I love about my Z10 keyboard.

    Can't wait to try it.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't think anyone REALLY has a problem with a lack of an ALT key. Swipe down is a nice way to replace ALT, albeit unintuitive initially.

    The problem is the big *** virtual keyboard that pops up on the screen when you do so. My preference (some disagree) would be to avoid the use/display of the virtual keyboard for common symbols and instead have them printed on the keys. This way I don't have to deal with the virtual keyboard popping up and down while I'm typing like crazy on my awesome physical keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    SenorPistachio likes this.
    07-04-14 10:15 AM
  6. II ARROWS's Avatar
    There are two ways to look at it: As a downgrade for QWERTY users into part-touch, or an upgrade for touch users into mostly-QWERTY. Which group do you think is bigger?
    And do you really think the bigger group care at all of a crippled physical keyboard?
    The superior experience is the Q10 and previous keyboard. They didn't choose BlackBerry back when it was something, they won't choose it now.

    And the point NONE ever replied to: IT COULD HAVE BEEN A FULL KEYBOARD, AND STILL BEING GESTURE ENABLED.
    SenorPistachio likes this.
    07-04-14 12:08 PM
  7. II ARROWS's Avatar
    I don't think anyone REALLY has a problem with a lack of an ALT key. Swipe down is a nice way to replace ALT, albeit unintuitive initially.

    The problem is the big *** virtual keyboard that pops up on the screen when you do so.
    I think the lack of a shift key is worse than the virtual keyboard, and the lack of physical comma & co.

    The virtual although very annoying, it's still a secondary issue (that can be corrected very easily).
    07-04-14 12:10 PM
  8. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    I don't think anyone REALLY has a problem with a lack of an ALT key. Swipe down is a nice way to replace ALT, albeit unintuitive initially.

    The problem is the big *** virtual keyboard that pops up on the screen when you do so. My preference (some disagree) would be to avoid the use/display of the virtual keyboard for common symbols and instead have them printed on the keys. This way I don't have to deal with the virtual keyboard popping up and down while I'm typing like crazy on my awesome physical keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    I have a problem with it. The lack of alt, shift and sym keys on a QWERTY phone is just ridiculous. Having to touch the screen to type numbers and symbols interrupts your typing flow and thus makes it way less efficient and productive. Not to mention having at actually look down to even tap on-screen alt and shift just to continue using the hardware keyboard while typing is preposterous.

    Posted via CB10
    SenorPistachio likes this.
    07-04-14 12:33 PM
  9. Hai Bo's Avatar
    I want two shift keys, one on either side, like in the old KB. Typing is faster than having only one shift key.
    07-04-14 12:38 PM
  10. grover5's Avatar
    I want two shift keys, one on either side, like in the old KB. Typing is faster than having only one shift key.
    Two? Give me eight shift keys and ten alt keys. Why couldn't BlackBerry make a pkb of nothing but shift and alt keys! I can't believe they screwed the pooch so bad on this.

    Posted via CB10
    07-04-14 12:40 PM
  11. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I think the lack of a shift key is worse than the virtual keyboard, and the lack of physical comma & co.

    The virtual although very annoying, it's still a secondary issue (that can be corrected very easily).
    Both annoy me to the same degree, though, because they are actually interdependent.

    Because I don't have an alt/shift key, I have them on the virtual keyboard.
    But it's actually the same vice versa.
    Since I have the virtual keyboard, I "don't need the alt/shift key".

    I had a little epiphany, while showering.
    The Passport has 3 rows, because adding a 4th row would have made the device too big in the end.
    BlackBerry was very likely unable to get the same screen size they have now with the Passport, if they would have added the 4th row.

    This obviously creates a problem, on where to place those buttons.
    Logical solution: make them virtual.
    Now, if you have virtual buttons already, and a virtual keyboard that pops up when you press "sym" on your other phones, the next logical step would be to eliminate all special characters on your hardware keyboard, and make then all virtual.

    Now, as "logical" as all of that seems to be, the guys at BlackBerry missed one thing....
    If you scrapped the 4th row of keys to get more screen real estate.....
    Then adding a 4th virtual row, doesn't remedy the issue.

    One might say, that you can consume graphical content better on the phone when the 4th virtual row hides....
    But if you bought a phone with a square screen and a physical keyboard to consume content, instead of a Tablet or Phablet, you probably did it wrong.

    Like this, the Passport is a downgrade in typing experience from a Bold/Classic/Q and a downgrade in terms of consuming content compared to a tablet/phablet.

    (btw, since the keyboard is also a trackpad, wouldn't it make more sense to have a real 4th row of keys, to have a bigger touchpad?)

    This is what I am criticising.
    Not that other people don't share my opinion of the device.
    But that the virtual keyboard is a band-aid solution to a self-inflicted problem.
    A "solution", that if your goal is to make the best physical keyboard device just doesn't cut it.
    ((It's also a solution, that BlackBerry would have never had to find, if they'd just produce a slider )

    Posted via CB10
    07-04-14 12:46 PM
  12. 3Dee's Avatar
    The interesting thing with the keyboard is that they are intentionally doing something new and counter to the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' principle.

    It appears that they could have used the traditional shift alt set up and have chosen not to. To the uninitiated the rationale seems questionable given the counterintuitive use of a second keyboard as an alternative, but I'm sure we'd all be happy to be proved wrong.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    07-04-14 12:58 PM
  13. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    The main complaint here is "why didn't they just implement a traditional BlackBerry keyboard?"

    And there is a very simple answer to it: they don't adress BlackBerry diehards. BlackBerry has to regain market share and they won't do that with BlackBerry diehards and traditional BlackBerry devices. Those who still stick to BlackBerry, the diehards, wilk soon have their new device - the Classic. And then there's a new, innovative new high end device, an iconic device to push boundaries and attract people that either never had a BlackBerry or jumped ship a long time ago. And that audience is accustomed to virtual keyboards for years. Does anybody think that audience will care about ALT and SHIFT and SYM keys? Hell no, that is why they passed on the last 10 BlackBerry QWERTY devices - they don't care about hardware keyboards as long as the display is tiny. So BlackBerry created a device that truly attracts that audience: it delivers a keyboard, doesn't compromise on screen real estate and at the same time its longer side is barely taller than an iPhone.

    Bottom line is the Passport may be just the right device for the right audience and any BlackBerry diehard should just go for the Classic.
    Timbosaurus and Thunderbuck like this.
    07-04-14 01:48 PM
  14. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    The main complaint here is "why didn't they just implement a traditional BlackBerry keyboard?"

    And there is a very simple answer to it: they don't adress BlackBerry diehards. BlackBerry has to regain market share and they won't do that with BlackBerry diehards and traditional BlackBerry devices. Those who still stick to BlackBerry, the diehards, wilk soon have their new device - the Classic. And then there's a new, innovative new high end device, an iconic device to push boundaries and attract people that either never had a BlackBerry or jumped ship a long time ago. And that audience is accustomed to virtual keyboards for years. Does anybody think that audience will care about ALT and SHIFT and SYM keys? Hell no, that is why they passed on the last 10 BlackBerry QWERTY devices - they don't care about hardware keyboards as long as the display is tiny. So BlackBerry created a device that truly attracts that audience: it delivers a keyboard, doesn't compromise on screen real estate and at the same time its longer side is barely taller than an iPhone.

    Bottom line is the Passport may be just the right device for the right audience and any BlackBerry diehard should just go for the Classic.
    That all sounds nice...
    A few points though:
    BlackBerry diehards who want a Classic are a shrinking part of the market.
    Catering to a shrinking niche, as a niche manufacturer, usually has a very predictive outcome.
    That's a huge reason why I am not a fan of the Classic, but much more of the LTE Z3 for the enterprise.

    Which you would reply to, is a reason for them making the Passport.
    Which confuses me though, because most people already made the switch to a full touch device and are more or less invested in an ecosystem.

    And those are the ones you will try to get with the Passport?
    While at the same time punishing them for doing that, with less screen estate, and a keyboard that doesn't have any special characters on it, further lessening the usable screen estate because you now need a virtual keyboard...
    In the meantime BlackBerry still has no ecosystem, you're getting a square screen and a device bigger than everything you've seen in the last few years....

    Let's say it like this:
    I doubt that this device has soooo many upsides that you'll get touch converts back.
    You may get those who only switched away from the PKB because of screen size.
    But then featuring a full keyboard would be a far better way to convince them.

    Anyhow, I think your premise is wrong.
    People who jumped ship a long time ago, will not go for a Passport.
    And people who never had a BlackBerry to begin with, only had dumbphones or touchscreens until now. In both cases, the switch to a keyboard is rather unlikely.

    I don't think that it won't sell though.
    It should find it's audience, because it's new, the biggest physical keyboard phone since a long time and kinda gimmicky as well.
    But the way you describe it, sounds like the Passport will be the ultimate success...
    With BlackBerry hoping to sell 10M phones this year, I doubt that very much.

    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    07-04-14 02:13 PM
  15. Vorkosigan's Avatar
    I don't think anyone REALLY has a problem with a lack of an ALT key. Swipe down is a nice way to replace ALT, albeit unintuitive initially.

    The problem is the big *** virtual keyboard that pops up on the screen when you do so. My preference (some disagree) would be to avoid the use/display of the virtual keyboard for common symbols and instead have them printed on the keys. This way I don't have to deal with the virtual keyboard popping up and down while I'm typing like crazy on my awesome physical keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    If the big virtual keyboard was up all the time then I might see it as a problem. For me it's not because I don't use excel on my phone so I never really need to be in that alternate keyboard all that much.

    I do think it would be cool if it could be made more transparent as Thunder suggested, but I don't think I'll find it that intrusive.

    Of course, I need to see it and hold it and use it before I can truly decide, but I do think this could be the device that will bring me back to a pkb. I'm not tempted by the Q10 and the Classic leaves me cold, but the Passport ... oh yes.

    Posted via CB10
    07-04-14 05:37 PM
  16. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    While at the same time punishing them for doing that, with less screen estate, and a keyboard that doesn't have any special characters on it, further lessening the usable screen estate because you now need a virtual keyboard...
    In the meantime BlackBerry still has no ecosystem, you're getting a square screen and a device bigger than everything you've seen in the last few years....
    "Less screen real estate"

    Than what? The Passport has almost the same screen real estate as a 5" 16:9 device. And comcerning width, it beats any noteworthy phone out there, even the Galaxy Note 3 with its 5.7" screen.

    "A keyboard w/ special characters"

    Why would that audience care about this? Because they're accustomed to crappy virtual keyboards for years? Hell no.

    "Further lessening..."

    Firstly "further" is already a joke, see my first paragraph. Secondly, don't make that keyboard solution worse than it is. For everything up to capitalization, punctuation, accented characters and numbers you won't need that pop up keyboard. And even the virtual 4th row only appears when in a text field, so please stop acting as if that extended virtual pop up keyboard would lessen the estate permanently.

    "Ecosystem"

    Come on, that's getting old. Amazon.

    "Square screen"

    How is that a disadvantage!?

    "A device bigger than everything"

    Errrr nope. It's longer side is 127 mms. Please find another flagship phone with less than 130 mm height which at the same time delivers thar screen real estate.
    Last edited by --TommesJay--; 07-05-14 at 05:49 AM.
    07-05-14 05:34 AM
  17. CeCoQ's Avatar
    "Less screen real estate"

    Than what? The Passport has almost the same screen real estate as a 5" 16:9 device. And comcerning width, it beats any noteworthy phone out there, even the Galaxy Note 3 with its 5.7" screen.

    "A keyboard w/ special characters"

    Why would that audience care about this? Because they're accustomed to crappy virtual keyboards for years? Hell no.

    "Further lessening..."

    Firstly "further" is already a joke, see my first paragraph. Secondly, don't make that keyboard solution worse than it is. For everything up to capitalization, punctuation, accented characters and numbers you won't need that pop up keyboard. And even the virtual 4th row only appears when in a text field, so please stop acting as if that extended virtual pop up keyboard would lessen the estate permanently.

    "Ecosystem"

    Come on, that's getting old. Amazon.

    "Square screen"

    How is that a disadvantage!?

    "A device bigger than everything"

    Errrr nope. It's longer side is 127 mms. Please find another flagship phone with less than 130 mm height which at the same time delivers thar screen real estate.
    I think the virtual keyboard will be there more than you think.

    Posted via CB10
    07-05-14 06:20 AM
  18. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    I think the virtual keyboard will be there more than you think.

    Posted via CB10
    Hm maybe, but I hope it won't.

    One could just look up recent chats and messages of oneself and analyze it for punctuation and symbols. After all we already know which characters need the pop up and which not, right?

    I'll do just that and come back later.

    Note: this entire post wouldn't have needed it.

    EDIT:

    Okay I just found out that any number will obviously require the entire pop up. Also

    "
    /
    =
    -
    (
    )
    #
    @
    %
    Hm......
    Last edited by --TommesJay--; 07-05-14 at 08:35 AM.
    07-05-14 08:25 AM
  19. 018125's Avatar
    Hm maybe, but I hope it won't.

    One could just look up recent chats and messages of oneself and analyze it for punctuation and symbols. After all we already know which characters need the pop up and which not, right?

    I'll do just that and come back later.

    Note: this entire post wouldn't have needed it.

    EDIT:

    Okay I just found out that any number will obviously require the entire pop up. Also

    "
    /
    =
    -
    (
    )
    #
    @
    %
    Hm......
    Right. I would prefer it if I had the option to not have a big virtual keyboard pop up every time I need a symbol/number that isn't in the contextual menu. One thing that would really help (wait for it, this is revolutionary), is if the symbols and numbers were printed on the keys.

    A vkb is a fine compromise for extended/uncommon symbols, like we saw on the q10.

    Are we all in agreement yet?

    Posted via CB10
    07-05-14 09:24 AM
  20. jcarlos100's Avatar
    Morning

    Posted via CB10
    07-05-14 10:35 AM
  21. dejanh's Avatar
    I have a problem with it. The lack of alt, shift and sym keys on a QWERTY phone is just ridiculous. Having to touch the screen to type numbers and symbols interrupts your typing flow and thus makes it way less efficient and productive. Not to mention having at actually look down to even tap on-screen alt and shift just to continue using the hardware keyboard while typing is preposterous.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree! How dare they! Blackberry, we don't want change, we don't want something new to try, and we are sure we know better than you how the keyboard should be designed for a mobile device so take your Passport keyboard and shove it! Give us the same old! Am I right? Who's with me?

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    gokulesh likes this.
    07-05-14 11:34 AM
  22. II ARROWS's Avatar
    Am I right? Who's with me?
    No, none is with you.
    And not only because you are sarcastic, but because none here want to be stuck with the past. We just don't want a downgrade of typing experience.

    Gestures could still be there with a full keyboard.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    07-05-14 11:43 AM
  23. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    No, none is with you.
    And not only because you are sarcastic, but because none here want to be stuck with the past. We just don't want a downgrade of typing experience.

    Gestures could still be there with a full keyboard.
    Indeed...

    Posted via CB10
    07-05-14 12:18 PM
  24. dejanh's Avatar
    No, none is with you.
    And not only because you are sarcastic, but because none here want to be stuck with the past. We just don't want a downgrade of typing experience.

    Gestures could still be there with a full keyboard.
    Are you certain of this like you were that the keyboard is OLED?

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    07-05-14 04:25 PM
  25. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I think the virtual keyboard will be there more than you think.

    Posted via CB10
    Even the virtual row will only be there for text fields. When else would you need it?

    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    Timbosaurus likes this.
    07-05-14 05:42 PM
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