07-11-14 09:41 AM
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  1. gatorboi352's Avatar
    Try type a complex password with one hand while you are driving...and you will know what I mean.
    Posted via CB10
    Try not texting and driving.
    07-01-14 12:05 PM
  2. deltact's Avatar
    I'm concerned that early adopters and tech reviewers will not take the time to learn before complaining about the keyboard. The biggest issue with the keyboard is the learning curve, especially for those who type without looking through muscle memory. I know I faced a few frustrations going from the 9810 to the Z10, even though I prepared by using the on-screen keyboard on the 9810 for a couple of weeks before the switch. In my case I persisted and am now quite comfortable with the Z10, but not everyone will put in the time and energy to learn. So we need some very positive reviews on day one. I hope that CB can prep a review beforehand under NDA and release it at zero hour.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10
    07-01-14 01:35 PM
  3. slgta's Avatar
    Try not texting and driving.
    Yeah...I don't....usually. Hands free are great, but in some cases when I have to look up something quickly...the password gets in the way.

    Another example is when I am with the customer, trying to lookup something on the phone (calendar/contacts/ email)...pretty frustrated if I couldn't unlock the phone after two tries. That will not happen with a bold keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-14 01:37 PM
  4. JCMM's Avatar
    I'm concerned that early adopters and tech reviewers will not take the time to learn before complaining about the keyboard. The biggest issue with the keyboard is the learning curve, especially for those who type without looking through muscle memory. I know I faced a few frustrations going from the 9810 to the Z10, even though I prepared by using the on-screen keyboard on the 9810 for a couple of weeks before the switch. In my case I persisted and am now quite comfortable with the Z10, but not everyone will put in the time and energy to learn. So we need some very positive reviews on day one. I hope that CB can prep a review beforehand under NDA and release it at zero hour.

    Posted via CB10 on Z10

    Just give a Passport to one member from each country registered here on crackberry, we will review it on our own languages and spread the word about it
    07-01-14 02:13 PM
  5. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Then you are capable of telling me why an ALT key can interfere with gestures while the G, F, H, B, V, R, T, Y keys cannot.
    I'm waiting for your explanation.
    Why did you hold back?
    Because the more values you assign to the keys, the more chance of an unintended result. What you haven't answered ME is:

    1) Why is the vkb for nums/syms objectionable here when it works pretty much exactly the same way as on the Q10?

    2) Why worry about a physical ALT key when the user can just do a swipe-down on the pkb?

    Did you ever notice that's the point of everyone who use a physical keyboard?
    If you don't want a physical keyboard, you still don't want this, because you end with only 3 suggestions, ordered from left to right by probability and not in line with the key. And the screen is still smaller then full touch devices, both in portrait and landscape.
    I think there's a chance the Passport predictive scheme will work better for some people. The current scheme on the vkbs that places suggestions in line with the keys can sometimes result in many suggestions clustered in a group and when the user swipes up he can get the wrong one.

    With only three, it's very easy to quickly scan the suggestions and swipe up. And I prefer the swipe-up to reaching up to tap the suggestion.

    Also, holding down a button is not an option for capitalize, because it's slow.
    *shrug* Take that up with the keyboard design team. Never been a problem for me. If you want me to concede anything here I'll admit it would be useful to be able to adjust that keyboard delay for caps.

    Why not? The capacitive technology is the one that permits multi-touch input. And you don't use ALT for text selection, you use SHIFT.
    Just for remember how you don't know anything about keyboard use.
    Because you're not TOUCHING the modifier key, you're pressing it.

    ...Or, as I think someone already confirmed, after placing the cursor you can wait a moment and start dragging the selection on the keyboard.

    See? It's not hard. The physical alt and shift keys are needed for typing, and only for that.
    So, if the modifier key ISN'T needed for text selection, that actually reduces the need for it.

    And I think we've also established that a user doesn't actually need the shift/alt keys when there are keyboard gestures that replace both of them.



    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    07-01-14 02:22 PM
  6. Tim Heard's Avatar
    I'm an outlier, but pecking on the glass hurts my fingers. I have nerve damage in my hands. I have no idea why, but pressing on keys doesn't hurt. I suspect because they keys move when I press on them, and on the glass I'm just thumping my fingers on an immovable surface.
    But it could equally well be that swiping on the keyboard then typing on the glass just requires a degree of dexterity that some don't have. Or that they like typing without having to even look, because their fingers "know" where the desired key already is.

    Because the more values you assign to the keys, the more chance of an unintended result. What you haven't answered ME is:

    1) Why is the vkb for nums/syms objectionable here when it works pretty much exactly the same way as on the Q10?

    2) Why worry about a physical ALT key when the user can just do a swipe-down on the pkb?


    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    07-01-14 02:53 PM
  7. CeCoQ's Avatar
    Because the more values you assign to the keys, the more chance of an unintended result. What you haven't answered ME is:

    1) Why is the vkb for nums/syms objectionable here when it works pretty much exactly the same way as on the Q10?

    2) Why worry about a physical ALT key when the user can just do a swipe-down on the pkb?



    I think there's a chance the Passport predictive scheme will work better for some people. The current scheme on the vkbs that places suggestions in line with the keys can sometimes result in many suggestions clustered in a group and when the user swipes up he can get the wrong one.

    With only three, it's very easy to quickly scan the suggestions and swipe up. And I prefer the swipe-up to reaching up to tap the suggestion.



    *shrug* Take that up with the keyboard design team. Never been a problem for me. If you want me to concede anything here I'll admit it would be useful to be able to adjust that keyboard delay for caps.



    Because you're not TOUCHING the modifier key, you're pressing it.



    So, if the modifier key ISN'T needed for text selection, that actually reduces the need for it.

    And I think we've also established that a user doesn't actually need the shift/alt keys when there are keyboard gestures that replace both of them.



    Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
    Who said that they are keyboard gestures to replace shift and alt? As of now. There are none.

    That's why this thread is so important. We are fighting for them to implement it in the final OS version before release. And we trying to get BlackBerry to hear us here so they can print other symbols on keys.

    BlackBerry read this forum.

    And if someone says again "Close this thread" then he should just ignore this thread all together. This is the number 1 thread on the Passport, and this is what brings the popularity of the Passport. :-)




    Posted via CB10
    07-01-14 03:00 PM
  8. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Who said that they are keyboard gestures to replace shift and alt? As of now. There are none.

    That's why this thread is so important. We are fighting for them to implement it in the final OS version before release. And we trying to get BlackBerry to hear us here so they can print other symbols on keys.

    BlackBerry read this forum.

    And if someone says again "Close this thread" then he should just ignore this thread all together. This is the number 1 thread on the Passport, and this is what brings the popularity of the Passport. :-)




    Posted via CB10
    There absolutely ARE existing gestures to replace shift and alt

    1) Hold down a letter key to capitalize
    2) Swipe downward on the keyboard to bring up the first num/sym page. Swipe again for the second page.
    canuckbear likes this.
    07-01-14 03:39 PM
  9. CeCoQ's Avatar
    There absolutely ARE existing gestures to replace shift and alt

    1) Hold down a letter key to capitalize
    2) Swipe downward on the keyboard to bring up the first num/sym page. Swipe again for the second page.
    Then if that's the case we don't need the on-screen keyboard and just print more symbols on the individual keys. And just a little square on the screen to show us where we are typing first page of second page of symbol. Just trying them all on the keyboard. We want to leave that screen as free as possible....

    We want to leave that large screen free.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-14 03:55 PM
  10. 018125's Avatar
    There absolutely ARE existing gestures to replace shift and alt

    1) Hold down a letter key to capitalize
    2) Swipe downward on the keyboard to bring up the first num/sym page. Swipe again for the second page.
    If I want to type the @ symbol on my Q10, I press ALT P. It's printed on the keyboard, I didn't need any training to understand how to do it and it fits with the flow of my typing.

    If I want to type the @ symbol on the Passport, I have to swipe down and press a virtual key which is several centimetres above the keyboard that I have just been typing in full flow on. Eventually I might learn the corresponding key on the physical keyboard and use that instead.

    I prefer the first option. Clearly you prefer the second - right?
    07-01-14 04:19 PM
  11. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    If I want to type the @ symbol on my Q10, I press ALT P. It's printed on the keyboard, I didn't need any training to understand how to do it and it fits with the flow of my typing.

    If I want to type the @ symbol on the Passport, I have to swipe down and press a virtual key which is several centimetres above the keyboard that I have just been typing in full flow on. Eventually I might learn the corresponding key on the physical keyboard and use that instead.

    I prefer the first option. Clearly you prefer the second - right?
    Actually, with the num/sym keyboard up, the virtual num/sym keys are arranged in a duplicate to the PHYSICAL keys, and are labeled with the PHYSICAL keys that activate them. You can reach up to the vkb and touch the @ key, but you can also just hit the P key on the pkb instead. So, where you went ALT-P before, down-swipe-P will still do the same thing.

    It will take some relearning. The BB10 vkb takes a good week to get used to, and the Passport's works very similarly. It won't be for everyone.

    ETA:



    You can see how the vkb maps to the pkb. And I guess if this picture is accurate it will actually be down-swipe-B that will get you the @ sym.
    Last edited by Thunderbuck; 07-01-14 at 05:53 PM.
    07-01-14 05:24 PM
  12. 018125's Avatar
    Actually, with the num/sym keyboard up, the virtual num/sym keys are arranged in a duplicate to the PHYSICAL keys, and are labeled with the PHYSICAL keys that activate them. You can reach up to the vkb and touch the @ key, but you can also just hit the P key on the pkb instead. So, where you went ALT-P before, down-swipe-P will still do the same thing.

    It will take some relearning. The BB10 vkb takes a good week to get used to, and the Passport's works very similarly. It won't be for everyone.
    Actually, that's what I said.

    I prefer the first option, you prefer the second option - right?

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-14 05:53 PM
  13. slgta's Avatar
    Actually, with the num/sym keyboard up, the virtual num/sym keys are arranged in a duplicate to the PHYSICAL keys, and are labeled with the PHYSICAL keys that activate them. You can reach up to the vkb and touch the @ key, but you can also just hit the P key on the pkb instead. So, where you went ALT-P before, down-swipe-P will still do the same thing.

    It will take some relearning. The BB10 vkb takes a good week to get used to, and the Passport's works very similarly. It won't be for everyone.

    ETA:

    http://forums.crackberry.com/attachm...bcmaa3yd3.jpeg

    You can see how the vkb maps to the pkb. And I guess if this picture is accurate it will actually be down-swipe-B that will get you the @ sym.
    If that's the case, I think the physical keyboard on the Passport will at least be closer to a full function one. What we need it that case is to have the symbols and special characters printed on the keys please. ...and an option to completely disable the virtual keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    CeCoQ likes this.
    07-01-14 06:07 PM
  14. canuckbear's Avatar
    I might buy this as 95% of what I use the phone for is 1) Browser 2) BBM 3) Phone 4) GPS. The screen will be awesome for web browsing!
    m1kr0, Timbosaurus and Thunderbuck like this.
    07-01-14 06:09 PM
  15. 018125's Avatar
    If that's the case, I think the physical keyboard on the Passport will at least be closer to a full function one. What we need it that case is to have the symbols and special characters printed on the keys please. ...and an option to completely disable the virtual keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    We all agree (well, the sensible ones).

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-14 06:14 PM
  16. AthenaSmith's Avatar
    Oh well. For me, if in the event that the keyboard remains as it is, some sort of physical keyboard is better than no physical keyboard at all. I really dislike typing (especially drafting documents) on an all-touchscreen.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-14 07:33 PM
  17. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Actually, that's what I said.

    I prefer the first option, you prefer the second option - right?

    Posted via CB10
    No, what you said is you'd have to reach up to press the virtual key. You don't. Down-swipe-B (and that's B on the PHYSICAL kb) for an @ sign.

    Once you've been using the phone for a few days you don't even consciously think about it.
    07-01-14 08:36 PM
  18. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    If that's the case, I think the physical keyboard on the Passport will at least be closer to a full function one. What we need it that case is to have the symbols and special characters printed on the keys please. ...and an option to completely disable the virtual keyboard.

    Posted via CB10
    I want neither of those things. If the symbols are printed on the physical keys, I have to actually pull my fingers off the keyboard to see where they are. With the vkb up as a guide I can press the corresponding key without having to look.

    It could be worse. On the Q5/Q10 the vkb for num/sym really does take up half the screen. On the Passport it's less than a third.
    07-01-14 08:38 PM
  19. lift's Avatar
    Thunderbuck, thanks for the picture. Now more than ever I am convinced that this phone will be a disaster. I would not want to spend even one minute trying to get used to something so different and confusing. Like I said before. If you were to get used to that keyboard and used it on a daily basis, you would never be able to use a regular all touch or all physical keyboard again. Why would you want to put yourself through that misery? No other phone manufacturer will ever use something like that. Just my opinion again. I'm going to try and stay away from anymore of these Passport threads. They are just making me ill.
    07-01-14 11:33 PM
  20. BrizzadMan's Avatar
    Thunderbuck, thanks for the picture. Now more than ever I am convinced that this phone will be a disaster. I would not want to spend even one minute trying to get used to something so different and confusing. Like I said before. If you were to get used to that keyboard and used it on a daily basis, you would never be able to use a regular all touch or all physical keyboard again. Why would you want to put yourself through that misery? No other phone manufacturer will ever use something like that. Just my opinion again. I'm going to try and stay away from anymore of these Passport threads. They are just making me ill.
    Thanks for the opinion... though my opinion is that there are enough people willing to try out this keyboard configuration. An open mind is capable of many things... and learning a new keyboard is one.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-14 11:56 PM
  21. arlene_t's Avatar
    No worries if you don't like passport you can have the classic. Once in awhile I think a company has to release something different. And passport now is unique among its competitors. This to say that BlackBerry is still the most innovative product up to date and Windows Phone. And hands down to Microsoft for coming up with windows 8. I'm a mac user but appreciate it. You can use those tiles or the traditional way in laptop. Only that most people follow trends than doing research about phones. Android phones mostly look the same except I think for the HTC one. That is the only android that I find appealing. Iphone is starting to lose it's mojo. Incremental small updates same as ever but it doesn't give the wow factor anymore like before. Looking forward to BlackBerry going up the ladders again.

    via Q10
    jcarlos100 likes this.
    07-01-14 11:58 PM
  22. cfoxx's Avatar
    If I wanted to use an on-screen keyboard for numbers and every-day punctuation when typing I'd have a Z30 already.

    I still cannot understand why they are neutering the physical keyboard like this.
    07-02-14 03:42 AM
  23. Raestloz's Avatar
    It's my work and my life, shame on you.
    And since you clearly don't understand anything about it, I won't explaining all 3 points to you.
    And it's my work and life too, so I don't feel any shame at all. In fact, I wrote that precisely because I know what would happen when you declare you will change how a module works and claim it's so easy you can do it in a day. Have you heard how much money Red Bull makes?

    Because at this point we're 1 year in from 10.0 and sometimes the awesome "swipe left to delete a word" feature on the keyboard sometimes still doesn't work, despite showing the correct animation across the keyboard, which means the correct method(s) is/are called albeit partially. If they haven't completely stomped such a bug after a year, how long do they need to change how the keyboard works? I certainly don't think a day is enough to change the code and test and catch enough bugs.

    Unless their code is indeed that good, but at that point it's nothing big to be skeptical about how big of a problem can changing a seemingly simple thing create.

    Remember Heartbleed?

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.3175
    07-02-14 04:11 AM
  24. 018125's Avatar
    No, what you said is you'd have to reach up to press the virtual key. You don't. Down-swipe-B (and that's B on the PHYSICAL kb) for an @ sign.

    Once you've been using the phone for a few days you don't even consciously think about it.
    I'm getting really tired of your attitude.

    Here's what I said:

    "Eventually I might learn the corresponding key on the physical keyboard and use that instead."

    You still haven't told me which option you prefer. Given that you've vehemently defended the Passport implementation for 15 pages, you must have an opinion.

    Posted via CB10
    lift likes this.
    07-02-14 04:36 AM
  25. II ARROWS's Avatar
    I want neither of those things. If the symbols are printed on the physical keys, I have to actually pull my fingers off the keyboard to see where they are. With the vkb up as a guide I can press the corresponding key without having to look.
    So, you are basically saying this:
    You want that your virtual keyboard shows up a second virtual keyboard that tells you what virtual key press for symbol an punctuation, because with punctuation "printed" on the virtual keys you cannot see them and need to pull your fingers off.
    07-02-14 05:02 AM
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