[MarsupilamiX]

Or scorched to the earth as the devil phone by the BlackBerry faithful so scared of any deviation that they must carefully monitor positive opinion to ensure nothing out of the ordinary is encouraged. Either one.

Posted via CB10

How should I say this friendly...
We know each other for so long now...

If the Passport would be exactly what it is currently.
But with a real 4th keyboard row, then there would be nothing to complain about.
Keep everything as it is, but give me back the keys every physical keyboard phone used since the OG Nokia Communicator.
There are reasons for an alt/sym/shift key. It's not because I am bored, that I want to press them.

And it's very obvious, that a BlackBerry keyboard phone should excel at typing.
It's on the verge of unimaginable for me, to not see the current solution on the Passport as a downgrade in typing and usability.
Which is nonsensical when you make a keyboard phone.

Yes, I will test the Passport nonetheless.
But conceptually, the Passport's keyboard and typing experience can only be worse when you come from a Q/Bold.

Posted via CB10

[neoberry99]

I understand your argument. I guess we'll have to wait and see. But even with the symbols on the screen you still have plenty of room on the screen to do whatever is needed.

[MarsupilamiX]

Nobody's forcing you to buy it. Based on your complaints about the Passport's keyboard I'd think the Classic would be more satisfactory for you.

Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7

The phone that feels like it comes str8 out of 2008 with a 2 inch screen?

Yeah, because that's what you want when you wait for a keyboard device that actually has some screen real estate......

The keyboard on the Zs takes a good week to get used to, but totally worth it. I see the Passport as having pretty much a new input method. It will likely take time for some users to get accustomed.

Please don't speak for me. I was good with the arrangement on the Q10 and this looks even less intrusive since the vkb takes up less of the screen.


Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7

What you say doesn't make sense...
If you were fine with the Q10, which has an "alt" key then I don't get you anyhow.

That key alone, minimises the time the virtual keyboard has to show up, because it doesn't show up.
A strange concept, isn't it?

How can a virtual keyboard that pops up all of the time, be less intrusive than one that doesn't?
Conceptually that makes no sense whatsoever.

I went

9000 > 9800 > 9900 > Z10

Now you may ask why I didn't went fot the Q10 and my simple answer is that I won't compromise on screen real estate without a toolbelt - simple. I loved the toolbelt.

I hate the tool-belt, but like keyboards
Similarities and differences everywhere.

Posted via CB10

[018125]

The phone that feels like it comes str8 out of 2008 with a 2 inch screen?

Yeah, because that's what you want when you wait for a keyboard device that actually has some screen real estate......



What you say doesn't make sense...
If you were fine with the Q10, which has an "alt" key then I don't get you anyhow.

That key alone, minimises the time the virtual keyboard has to show up, because it doesn't show up.
A strange concept, isn't it?

How can a virtual keyboard that pops up all of the time, be less intrusive than one that doesn't?
Conceptually that makes no sense whatsoever.



I hate the tool-belt, but like keyboards
Similarities and differences everywhere.

Posted via CB10

There's only one possible explanation for his complete unwillingness to acknowledge basic logic.

This is the subtle difference between BlackBerry Fans who want the company to be successful, and BlackBerry Employees who refuse to accept even constructive criticism.

Do you work for BlackBerry, Thunderbuck?

Posted via CB10

[dejanh]

You want to know why I am obnoxious? I'm like that to illustrate to you how all of you sound while continuously whining and complaining about a design that you have never tried.

You are *all* making assumptions that somehow Blackberry missed the obvious points when designing the Passport and that you, the mighty, experienced Blackberry users caught them with their pants down. Occam's Razor dictates quite the opposite. Blackberry likely thought of the exact same things you did and implemented a design that likely won't suffer from any of the issues brought up in this thread (note that circumstantial evidence like "my friend tried it" does not speak anything for the population and also fails to take the learning curve into account).

You need to wait and try the new device before you judge the new design, and by trying I don't mean try it for one day and judge it. Give it a few weeks until the muscle memory sets in and the usage paradigm becomes of secondary nature, and then pass your judgement on how good or bad the keyboard really is compared to the classic QWERTY.

After all, you know what they say about people who assume, they tend to make and "*** of you and me".

Posted via CrackBerry App

[018125]

You want to know why I am obnoxious? I'm like that to illustrate to you how all of you sound while continuously whining and complaining about a design that you have never tried.

You are *all* making assumptions that somehow Blackberry missed the obvious points when designing the Passport and that you, the mighty, experienced Blackberry users caught them with their pants down. Occam's Razor dictates quite the opposite. Blackberry likely thought of the exact same things you did and implemented a design that likely won't suffer from any of the issues brought up in this thread.

You need to wait and try the new device before you judge the new design, and by trying I don't mean try it for one day and judge it. Give it a few weeks until the muscle memory sets in and the usage paradigm becomes of secondary nature, and then pass your judgement on how good or bad the keyboard really is compared to the classic QWERTY.

After all, you know what they say about people who assume, they tend to make and "*** of you and me".

Posted via CrackBerry App

Plenty of people have tested the device. Try again.

Posted via CB10

[dejanh]

Plenty of people have tested the device. Try again.

Posted via CB10

I knew that bright minds like yourself will respond exactly like this. Ever hear of circumstantial evidence? The "people" that have tried it are (a) very few, and (b) definitely have *not* had the time to use the device for any longer than maybe a few minutes. In fact, there has not been a single extended usage leak that corroborated any of the assumptions made in this thread. Quite the opposite in-fact. The one review that we got that was more thorough actually seems to have a fondness for the new design. So please, tell me, where are these extended usage tests and reviews that corroborate your assumptions about the new keyboard design?

Oh and next time, at least do me a favour of reading my post before quoting it in its entirety and then posting a response which I expected and therefore explicitly addressed in my original post.

Posted via CrackBerry App

[018125]

I knew that bright minds like yourself will respond exactly like this. Ever hear of circumstantial evidence? The "people" that have tried it are (a) very few, and (b) definitely have *not* had the time to use the device for any longer than maybe a few minutes. In fact, there has not been a single extended usage leak that corroborated any of the assumptions made in this thread. Quite the opposite in-fact. The one review that we got that was more thorough actually seems to have a fondness for the new design. So please, tell me, where are these extended usage tests and reviews that corroborate your assumptions about the new keyboard design?

Posted via CrackBerry App

This is CrackBerry. It's a fan site about BlackBerry. On fan sites, fans of said product speculate about various aspects of the product(s).

Our speculation is based on:

- Images
- Videos
- Rumours
- Specs
- Real world feedback.

To suggest that we should not be performing such speculation, is to contradict the very fabric of this site.

As far as I can see, only YOU have made assumptions in this thread. YOU are assuming that BlackBerry have done their research. YOU are assuming that BlackBerry have got this right. YOU are assuming that those of us speculating MUST be wrong.

By all means, post your opinions about why we could be wrong. But if you insist on stopping speculation, we might as well close this site right now.

So let's try again, and remember that we are all BlackBerry supporters here - that why we post on this fan site. I'm the only person in my 400 person organisation rocking a BlackBerry. I want nothing more than BlackBerry to be successful. I'm also a shareholder.

So, reserving my right to speculate, evidence thus far suggests that this device is not intuitive to the uninformed (unlikely to sell well), and the vkb popping up every time we need a number/symbol is LIKELY to be annoying (using my brain and evidence to speculate here) .

Can we agree on that?


Posted via CB10

[calivol]

Too many people talking with no-one listening IMO. Might as well be talking politics. Valid points on both sides yet many seem to think their point of view is the only valid one. Par for the course I guess.

To me I love the keyboard and design. It should work perfectly for my business. I need the extra screen real estate, I rarely used the short cuts on my old keyboard, and really don't miss the keyboard on my Z10 in general. However, I do see the keyboard as an upgrade to me. I think it's the best of both worlds.

I recognize how the missing keys would be a serious concern for the traditional user. Having a virtual screen pop up constantly could really be a challenge. I get that, I really do. However, I believe BlackBerry recognized that and felt that the most touch screen users would be satisfied with this design, many traditional users would adapt, and the rest would use the classic.

I also think that if the additional keys could have been adopted in a way that wouldn't have caused substantial changes in design and significantly increased the price they would have. From what we've seen, it just doesn't look like they could make it happen.

Just my opinion.

Posted via CB10

[jcarlos100]

You think they'd get such a simple concept.

I wish the keyboard was a proper QWERTY keyboard! If that were the case I'd have absolutely no qualms making this a day 1 purchase for me. But intentionally crippled keyboard? Not a chance.

Sad to see so many that can't see the forest from the trees.

Posted via CB10

I know can't wait to get that passport love the keyboard

Posted via CB10

[dejanh]

This is CrackBerry. It's a fan site about BlackBerry. On fan sites, fans of said product speculate about various aspects of the product(s).

Our speculation is based on:

- Images
- Videos
- Rumours
- Specs
- Real world feedback.

To suggest that we should not be performing such speculation, is to contradict the very fabric of this site.

As far as I can see, only YOU have made assumptions in this thread. YOU are assuming that BlackBerry have done their research. YOU are assuming that BlackBerry have got this right. YOU are assuming that those of us speculating MUST be wrong.

By all means, post your opinions about why we could be wrong. But if you insist on stopping speculation, we might as well close this site right now.

So let's try again, and remember that we are all BlackBerry supporters here - that why we post on this fan site. I'm the only person in my 400 person organisation rocking a BlackBerry. I want nothing more than BlackBerry to be successful. I'm also a shareholder.

So, reserving my right to speculate, evidence thus far suggests that this device is not intuitive to the uninformed (unlikely to sell well), and the vkb popping up every time we need a number/symbol is LIKELY to be annoying (using my brain and evidence to speculate here) .

Can we agree on that?


Posted via CB10

No we can't. The "evidence" you speak of does not exist. By all means though, continue to speculate as much as you want as to how the device will be a failure based on your own opinion and at best anecdotal evidence.

Posted via CrackBerry App

[BlackberryFan777]

Why do you have to be so obnoxious? Everyone is clearly welcoming the keyboard innovations. The gestures sound awesome.

Using a vkb to replace printed symbols is not innovation.

Posted via CB10

I agree. I'm having trouble understanding why an ALT key and SYM key was not included. At the minimum, it's going to take longer to reach my thumb from the keyboard to the screen than it would take on a traditional BlackBerry QWERTY. Unless, they think their word prediction is so good that I'll rarely need to type punctuation and such... ?

EDIT: One reason may be that research indicates that potential buyers prefer larger keys. We understand that physical keys allow smaller, quicker keyboards, but I've talked to numerous people who shied away from BlackBerry in the past because they felt their "thumbs were too big." Their objection was almost certainly wrong, but maybe it's resounding with BlackBerry's new management... or more likely BlackBerry's old management.

ALSO: I want to emphasize that I'm going to buy a Passport as a QWERTY with a large screen and BB10 with Blend is a dream machine for me. But, I think the concern about no ALT or SYM is worth discussing.

Posted via CB10

[018125]

No we can't. The "evidence" you speak of does not exist. By all means though, continue to speculate as much as you want as to how the device will be a failure based on your own opinion and at best anecdotal evidence.

Posted via CrackBerry App

This is the BlackBerry Passport subforum. A message board dedicated solely to an UNRELEASED device. If we did not speculate, it would be almost entirely empty.

If you have a problem with people speculating on information which may not be 100% accurate, why do you read this section?

Your posts equate to "Stop speculating about a device you haven't used", and you have the audacity to sarcastically refer to me as a "bright mind".

You have contributed nothing and caused nothing but frustration.

Posted via CB10

[dejanh]

This is the BlackBerry Passport subforum. A message board dedicated solely to an UNRELEASED device. If we did not speculate, it would be almost entirely empty.

If you have a problem with people speculating on information which may not be 100% accurate, why do you read this section?

Your posts equate to "Stop speculating about a device you haven't used", and you have the audacity to sarcastically refer to me as a "bright mind".

You have contributed nothing and caused nothing but frustration.

Posted via CB10

Tell us how you really feel

Posted via CrackBerry App

[grover5]

This is the BlackBerry Passport subforum. A message board dedicated solely to an UNRELEASED device. If we did not speculate, it would be almost entirely empty.

If you have a problem with people speculating on information which may not be 100% accurate, why do you read this section?

Your posts equate to "Stop speculating about a device you haven't used", and you have the audacity to sarcastically refer to me as a "bright mind".

You have contributed nothing and caused nothing but frustration.

Posted via CB10

I've enjoyed his posts. The audacity huh. Pretty funny stuff.

Posted via CB10

[018125]

Tell us how you really feel

Posted via CrackBerry App

http://9gag.com/gag/aeNL9XQ?ref=blackberry

Posted via CB10

[lift]

Dejanh, I have to say I agree with 018125 more than you and most others on this subforum. You are not the smartest person on CrackBerry so why are you acting as such? I'm not saying I am either but speculation based on the points 018125 outlined are pretty good. You don't HAVE to actually use the device yourself to make an informed decision that the device will be awkward, too big in many cases, ugly, and have a steep learning curve. Other than SOME BlackBerry fans and less than .001% of the general public, who is going to buy this phone so Blackberry can make a return on the investment it made? It cost BlackBerry lot's of time and money to develop this device and what will be the return on this investment? There are lot's of very smart people on here and their opinions should not be just tossed aside because they didn't try it. You don't have to be a genius to see that in the general public this is going to fail miserably. I don't own stock in BlackBerry but I do own 7 BB10 devices and care deeply whether the company can succeed. I am worried that somehow BlackBerry has gone down the wrong path to success with not only this phone but with the classic also. The market for Physical keyboard phones is so small right now and continues to shrink. Why invest in that anymore when they have the best touch keyboards in the industry? I'm not saying screw the physical keyboard users. I'm saying that those of you are a shrinking user base and need to just accept that. There is no profit in it anymore. Nobody makes those phones for a reason and BlackBerry is dying because they are focused too much on it.

[dejanh]

Dejanh, I have to say I agree with 018125 more than you and most others on this subforum. You are not the smartest person on CrackBerry so why are you acting as such? I'm not saying I am either but speculation based on the points 018125 outlined are pretty good. You don't HAVE to actually use the device yourself to make an informed decision that the device will be awkward, too big in many cases, ugly, and have a steep learning curve. Other than SOME BlackBerry fans and less than .001% of the general public, who is going to buy this phone so Blackberry can make a return on the investment it made? It cost BlackBerry lot's of time and money to develop this device and what will be the return on this investment? There are lot's of very smart people on here and their opinions should not be just tossed aside because they didn't try it. You don't have to be a genius to see that in the general public this is going to fail miserably. I don't own stock in BlackBerry but I do own 7 BB10 devices and care deeply whether the company can succeed. I am worried that somehow BlackBerry has gone down the wrong path to success with not only this phone but with the classic also. The market for Physical keyboard phones is so small right now and continues to shrink. Why invest in that anymore when they have the best touch keyboards in the industry? I'm not saying screw the physical keyboard users. I'm saying that those of you are a shrinking user base and need to just accept that. There is no profit in it anymore. Nobody makes those phones for a reason and BlackBerry is dying because they are focused too much on it.

I'm not the smartest person here?! *cries, takes his ball, and goes home*

Just kidding. Joking aside, the problem with this thread is that it hasn't been positioned as an opinion. It was positioned as factual truth. Moreover, it seems to attract almost exclusively all those users that are for some reason ****-hurt that Blackberry did not utilize a classic keyboard design on the Passport. The gave you purists the Classic. Go and enjoy it.

Could the Passport keyboard prove to be cumbersome? Absolutely. There is always a chance of that. Could the device flop because of it? That too is possible. iPhone could have flopped when it tried to push an all touch experience into a world of keyboards and buttons. Samsung Note serious could have failed when it proposed that people want to carry massive devices as a phone (and was certainly the **** of many discussions of the exact same nature as what we are having here). None of these failed and it is my opinion (emphasis on opinion) that the Passport will do OK as well. There always seems to be a market for something different.

As for the design of the keyboard and the device as a whole it is *not* logical to assume that a company in the position that is BlackBerry's would risk a bad design. Samsung can do that (looks at Mega), but BlackBerry cannot. Nothing so far has given us the reason to think that they are making an uninformed decision with the Passport.

Posted via CrackBerry App

[Vorkosigan]

Too many people talking with no-one listening IMO. Might as well be talking politics. Valid points on both sides yet many seem to think their point of view is the only valid one. Par for the course I guess.

To me I love the keyboard and design. It should work perfectly for my business. I need the extra screen real estate, I rarely used the short cuts on my old keyboard, and really don't miss the keyboard on my Z10 in general. However, I do see the keyboard as an upgrade to me. I think it's the best of both worlds.

I recognize how the missing keys would be a serious concern for the traditional user. Having a virtual screen pop up constantly could really be a challenge. I get that, I really do. However, I believe BlackBerry recognized that and felt that the most touch screen users would be satisfied with this design, many traditional users would adapt, and the rest would use the classic.

I also think that if the additional keys could have been adopted in a way that wouldn't have caused substantial changes in design and significantly increased the price they would have. From what we've seen, it just doesn't look like they could make it happen.

Just my opinion.

Posted via CB10

^ I mostly agree with this. I can see how for some users having the virtual keyboard pop up on the screen will be annoying.

However, for me, based on my usage on my Z10 and on my PlayBook, it won't be a problem. I've been watching the last few days and I don't use the special characters all that much while I'm typing on the phone and not even on my PlayBook.

I think the single virtual row will change depending on what type of field you are in and that it will answer most of my punctuation needs very nicely.



Posted via CB10

[gg bb]

Yes, but is there time to read this thread???

In a strange way I really hope BlackBerry get it wrong and think about it afterwards in a typical BlackBerry way.

You see I've got used to the pattern of the regular software changes.
I just couldn't go back to the banality of a finished product - I need the adrenalin rush of the maintenance release,the pent-up anticipation for a new version relaese, the sense of relief when it actually works, the satisfaction of discovering the more subtle changes......

[018125]

I'm not the smartest person here?! *cries, takes his ball, and goes home*

Just kidding. Joking aside, the problem with this thread is that it hasn't been positioned as an opinion. It was positioned as factual truth. Moreover, it seems to attract almost exclusively all those users that are for some reason ****-hurt that Blackberry did not utilize a classic keyboard design on the Passport. The gave you purists the Classic. Go and enjoy it.

Could the Passport keyboard prove to be cumbersome? Absolutely. There is always a chance of that. Could the device flop because of it? That too is possible. iPhone could have flopped when it tried to push an all touch experience into a world of keyboards and buttons. Samsung Note serious could have failed when it proposed that people want to carry massive devices as a phone (and was certainly the **** of many discussions of the exact same nature as what we are having here). None of these failed and it is my opinion (emphasis on opinion) that the Passport will do OK as well. There always seems to be a market for something different.

As for the design of the keyboard and the device as a whole it is *not* logical to assume that a company in the position that is BlackBerry's would risk a bad design. Samsung can do that (looks at Mega), but BlackBerry cannot. Nothing so far has given us the reason to think that they are making an uninformed decision with the Passport.

Posted via CrackBerry App

Ah you're one of those guys. Let's all make sure we add "in my opinion" to all of our posts just in case dejanh reads them.

Here's a tip: most of the things that people post on discussion forums are opinions, and should be treated as such.

Edit: In my opinion

[--TommesJay--]

Dejanh, I have to say I agree with 018125 more than you and most others on this subforum. You are not the smartest person on CrackBerry so why are you acting as such? I'm not saying I am either but speculation based on the points 018125 outlined are pretty good. You don't HAVE to actually use the device yourself to make an informed decision that the device will be awkward, too big in many cases, ugly, and have a steep learning curve. Other than SOME BlackBerry fans and less than .001% of the general public, who is going to buy this phone so Blackberry can make a return on the investment it made? It cost BlackBerry lot's of time and money to develop this device and what will be the return on this investment? There are lot's of very smart people on here and their opinions should not be just tossed aside because they didn't try it. You don't have to be a genius to see that in the general public this is going to fail miserably. I don't own stock in BlackBerry but I do own 7 BB10 devices and care deeply whether the company can succeed. I am worried that somehow BlackBerry has gone down the wrong path to success with not only this phone but with the classic also. The market for Physical keyboard phones is so small right now and continues to shrink. Why invest in that anymore when they have the best touch keyboards in the industry? I'm not saying screw the physical keyboard users. I'm saying that those of you are a shrinking user base and need to just accept that. There is no profit in it anymore. Nobody makes those phones for a reason and BlackBerry is dying because they are focused too much on it.

Dude this is the fourth comment in the row of yours I read the last 5 minutes and OMG are you annoying.

[jcarlos100]

Man u guys can write paragraphs lol

Posted via CB10

[sleepngbear]

Folks, this is a brand new device that we ought to be excited about. Even people who don't like BlackBerry are excited about it. Let's keep the discussion civil and, if at all possible, somewhat positive.

Play Nice, Be Helpful, and have Respect!

This means keep the language clean, keep your posts polite, and don�t get into arguments over dumb things. If somebody responds to a thread you posted in poor fashion, ignore it, and the moderation team will quickly clean it up (you can always message or email a moderator at any time if you observe anything that is in poor taste/against the rules). Think back to what your parentals and teachers used to lecture - if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Always remember that we are all unique and at different levels here - some of us are experienced BlackBerry users and forum junkies, while others are just starting out. If you�re on the experienced side, have patience for those just joining in on the fun and be helpful. With a little patience and a little help they won�t be newbies for long. Also remember that it is our differences that keeps this place interesting. If everyone was from the same place and at the same experience level it would be boring. This is a worldwide community united by a common interest - our love, or addiction as some would call it, for the BlackBerry!

[lift]

I'm not the smartest person here?! *cries, takes his ball, and goes home*

That was pretty funny and I was not trying to be insulting.
You made some great points. It is only my opinion that this device won't sell. Everyone has opinions on this device, both good and bad. People form opinions usually pretty quickly and I would think I am smart enough to know what would work for me or not. If this phone seems like the perfect device for some people out there than that's great.
Again, I am just voicing my opinion because I am worried for the future of BlackBerry and hope somehow all of this will work out for the better.