Dear BlackBerry! There's still time to fix the Passport keyboard.
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- I'm concerned that early adopters and tech reviewers will not take the time to learn before complaining about the keyboard. The biggest issue with the keyboard is the learning curve, especially for those who type without looking through muscle memory. I know I faced a few frustrations going from the 9810 to the Z10, even though I prepared by using the on-screen keyboard on the 9810 for a couple of weeks before the switch. In my case I persisted and am now quite comfortable with the Z10, but not everyone will put in the time and energy to learn. So we need some very positive reviews on day one. I hope that CB can prep a review beforehand under NDA and release it at zero hour.
Posted via CB10 on Z1007-01-14 12:35 PMLike 0 - Yeah...I don't....usually. Hands free are great, but in some cases when I have to look up something quickly...the password gets in the way.
Another example is when I am with the customer, trying to lookup something on the phone (calendar/contacts/ email)...pretty frustrated if I couldn't unlock the phone after two tries. That will not happen with a bold keyboard.
Posted via CB1007-01-14 12:37 PMLike 0 - I'm concerned that early adopters and tech reviewers will not take the time to learn before complaining about the keyboard. The biggest issue with the keyboard is the learning curve, especially for those who type without looking through muscle memory. I know I faced a few frustrations going from the 9810 to the Z10, even though I prepared by using the on-screen keyboard on the 9810 for a couple of weeks before the switch. In my case I persisted and am now quite comfortable with the Z10, but not everyone will put in the time and energy to learn. So we need some very positive reviews on day one. I hope that CB can prep a review beforehand under NDA and release it at zero hour.
Posted via CB10 on Z10
Just give a Passport to one member from each country registered here on crackberry, we will review it on our own languages and spread the word about it07-01-14 01:13 PMLike 0 - ThunderbuckRetired Moderator
1) Why is the vkb for nums/syms objectionable here when it works pretty much exactly the same way as on the Q10?
2) Why worry about a physical ALT key when the user can just do a swipe-down on the pkb?
Did you ever notice that's the point of everyone who use a physical keyboard?
If you don't want a physical keyboard, you still don't want this, because you end with only 3 suggestions, ordered from left to right by probability and not in line with the key. And the screen is still smaller then full touch devices, both in portrait and landscape.
With only three, it's very easy to quickly scan the suggestions and swipe up. And I prefer the swipe-up to reaching up to tap the suggestion.
Also, holding down a button is not an option for capitalize, because it's slow.
Why not? The capacitive technology is the one that permits multi-touch input. And you don't use ALT for text selection, you use SHIFT.
Just for remember how you don't know anything about keyboard use.
...Or, as I think someone already confirmed, after placing the cursor you can wait a moment and start dragging the selection on the keyboard.
See? It's not hard. The physical alt and shift keys are needed for typing, and only for that.
And I think we've also established that a user doesn't actually need the shift/alt keys when there are keyboard gestures that replace both of them.
Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F707-01-14 01:22 PMLike 0 - I'm an outlier, but pecking on the glass hurts my fingers. I have nerve damage in my hands. I have no idea why, but pressing on keys doesn't hurt. I suspect because they keys move when I press on them, and on the glass I'm just thumping my fingers on an immovable surface.
But it could equally well be that swiping on the keyboard then typing on the glass just requires a degree of dexterity that some don't have. Or that they like typing without having to even look, because their fingers "know" where the desired key already is.
Because the more values you assign to the keys, the more chance of an unintended result. What you haven't answered ME is:
1) Why is the vkb for nums/syms objectionable here when it works pretty much exactly the same way as on the Q10?
2) Why worry about a physical ALT key when the user can just do a swipe-down on the pkb?
Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F707-01-14 01:53 PMLike 0 - Because the more values you assign to the keys, the more chance of an unintended result. What you haven't answered ME is:
1) Why is the vkb for nums/syms objectionable here when it works pretty much exactly the same way as on the Q10?
2) Why worry about a physical ALT key when the user can just do a swipe-down on the pkb?
I think there's a chance the Passport predictive scheme will work better for some people. The current scheme on the vkbs that places suggestions in line with the keys can sometimes result in many suggestions clustered in a group and when the user swipes up he can get the wrong one.
With only three, it's very easy to quickly scan the suggestions and swipe up. And I prefer the swipe-up to reaching up to tap the suggestion.
*shrug* Take that up with the keyboard design team. Never been a problem for me. If you want me to concede anything here I'll admit it would be useful to be able to adjust that keyboard delay for caps.
Because you're not TOUCHING the modifier key, you're pressing it.
So, if the modifier key ISN'T needed for text selection, that actually reduces the need for it.
And I think we've also established that a user doesn't actually need the shift/alt keys when there are keyboard gestures that replace both of them.
Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7
That's why this thread is so important. We are fighting for them to implement it in the final OS version before release. And we trying to get BlackBerry to hear us here so they can print other symbols on keys.
BlackBerry read this forum.
And if someone says again "Close this thread" then he should just ignore this thread all together. This is the number 1 thread on the Passport, and this is what brings the popularity of the Passport. :-)
Posted via CB1007-01-14 02:00 PMLike 0 - ThunderbuckRetired ModeratorWho said that they are keyboard gestures to replace shift and alt? As of now. There are none.
That's why this thread is so important. We are fighting for them to implement it in the final OS version before release. And we trying to get BlackBerry to hear us here so they can print other symbols on keys.
BlackBerry read this forum.
And if someone says again "Close this thread" then he should just ignore this thread all together. This is the number 1 thread on the Passport, and this is what brings the popularity of the Passport. :-)
Posted via CB10
1) Hold down a letter key to capitalize
2) Swipe downward on the keyboard to bring up the first num/sym page. Swipe again for the second page.canuckbear likes this.07-01-14 02:39 PMLike 1 -
We want to leave that large screen free.
Posted via CB1007-01-14 02:55 PMLike 0 -
If I want to type the @ symbol on the Passport, I have to swipe down and press a virtual key which is several centimetres above the keyboard that I have just been typing in full flow on. Eventually I might learn the corresponding key on the physical keyboard and use that instead.
I prefer the first option. Clearly you prefer the second - right?07-01-14 03:19 PMLike 0 - ThunderbuckRetired ModeratorIf I want to type the @ symbol on my Q10, I press ALT P. It's printed on the keyboard, I didn't need any training to understand how to do it and it fits with the flow of my typing.
If I want to type the @ symbol on the Passport, I have to swipe down and press a virtual key which is several centimetres above the keyboard that I have just been typing in full flow on. Eventually I might learn the corresponding key on the physical keyboard and use that instead.
I prefer the first option. Clearly you prefer the second - right?
It will take some relearning. The BB10 vkb takes a good week to get used to, and the Passport's works very similarly. It won't be for everyone.
ETA:
You can see how the vkb maps to the pkb. And I guess if this picture is accurate it will actually be down-swipe-B that will get you the @ sym.Last edited by Thunderbuck; 07-01-14 at 04:53 PM.
07-01-14 04:24 PMLike 0 - Actually, with the num/sym keyboard up, the virtual num/sym keys are arranged in a duplicate to the PHYSICAL keys, and are labeled with the PHYSICAL keys that activate them. You can reach up to the vkb and touch the @ key, but you can also just hit the P key on the pkb instead. So, where you went ALT-P before, down-swipe-P will still do the same thing.
It will take some relearning. The BB10 vkb takes a good week to get used to, and the Passport's works very similarly. It won't be for everyone.
I prefer the first option, you prefer the second option - right?
Posted via CB1007-01-14 04:53 PMLike 0 - Actually, with the num/sym keyboard up, the virtual num/sym keys are arranged in a duplicate to the PHYSICAL keys, and are labeled with the PHYSICAL keys that activate them. You can reach up to the vkb and touch the @ key, but you can also just hit the P key on the pkb instead. So, where you went ALT-P before, down-swipe-P will still do the same thing.
It will take some relearning. The BB10 vkb takes a good week to get used to, and the Passport's works very similarly. It won't be for everyone.
ETA:
http://forums.crackberry.com/attachm...bcmaa3yd3.jpeg
You can see how the vkb maps to the pkb. And I guess if this picture is accurate it will actually be down-swipe-B that will get you the @ sym.
Posted via CB10CeCoQ likes this.07-01-14 05:07 PMLike 1 - I might buy this as 95% of what I use the phone for is 1) Browser 2) BBM 3) Phone 4) GPS. The screen will be awesome for web browsing!07-01-14 05:09 PMLike 3
- If that's the case, I think the physical keyboard on the Passport will at least be closer to a full function one. What we need it that case is to have the symbols and special characters printed on the keys please. ...and an option to completely disable the virtual keyboard.
Posted via CB10
Posted via CB1007-01-14 05:14 PMLike 0 - Oh well. For me, if in the event that the keyboard remains as it is, some sort of physical keyboard is better than no physical keyboard at all. I really dislike typing (especially drafting documents) on an all-touchscreen.
Posted via CB1007-01-14 06:33 PMLike 0 - ThunderbuckRetired Moderator
Once you've been using the phone for a few days you don't even consciously think about it.07-01-14 07:36 PMLike 0 - ThunderbuckRetired ModeratorIf that's the case, I think the physical keyboard on the Passport will at least be closer to a full function one. What we need it that case is to have the symbols and special characters printed on the keys please. ...and an option to completely disable the virtual keyboard.
Posted via CB10
It could be worse. On the Q5/Q10 the vkb for num/sym really does take up half the screen. On the Passport it's less than a third.07-01-14 07:38 PMLike 0 - Thunderbuck, thanks for the picture. Now more than ever I am convinced that this phone will be a disaster. I would not want to spend even one minute trying to get used to something so different and confusing. Like I said before. If you were to get used to that keyboard and used it on a daily basis, you would never be able to use a regular all touch or all physical keyboard again. Why would you want to put yourself through that misery? No other phone manufacturer will ever use something like that. Just my opinion again. I'm going to try and stay away from anymore of these Passport threads. They are just making me ill.07-01-14 10:33 PMLike 0
- Thunderbuck, thanks for the picture. Now more than ever I am convinced that this phone will be a disaster. I would not want to spend even one minute trying to get used to something so different and confusing. Like I said before. If you were to get used to that keyboard and used it on a daily basis, you would never be able to use a regular all touch or all physical keyboard again. Why would you want to put yourself through that misery? No other phone manufacturer will ever use something like that. Just my opinion again. I'm going to try and stay away from anymore of these Passport threads. They are just making me ill.
Posted via CB1007-01-14 10:56 PMLike 0 - No worries if you don't like passport you can have the classic. Once in awhile I think a company has to release something different. And passport now is unique among its competitors. This to say that BlackBerry is still the most innovative product up to date and Windows Phone. And hands down to Microsoft for coming up with windows 8. I'm a mac user but appreciate it. You can use those tiles or the traditional way in laptop. Only that most people follow trends than doing research about phones. Android phones mostly look the same except I think for the HTC one. That is the only android that I find appealing. Iphone is starting to lose it's mojo. Incremental small updates same as ever but it doesn't give the wow factor anymore like before. Looking forward to BlackBerry going up the ladders again.
via Q10jcarlos100 likes this.07-01-14 10:58 PMLike 1 -
Because at this point we're 1 year in from 10.0 and sometimes the awesome "swipe left to delete a word" feature on the keyboard sometimes still doesn't work, despite showing the correct animation across the keyboard, which means the correct method(s) is/are called albeit partially. If they haven't completely stomped such a bug after a year, how long do they need to change how the keyboard works? I certainly don't think a day is enough to change the code and test and catch enough bugs.
Unless their code is indeed that good, but at that point it's nothing big to be skeptical about how big of a problem can changing a seemingly simple thing create.
Remember Heartbleed?
Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.317507-02-14 03:11 AMLike 0 -
Here's what I said:
"Eventually I might learn the corresponding key on the physical keyboard and use that instead."
You still haven't told me which option you prefer. Given that you've vehemently defended the Passport implementation for 15 pages, you must have an opinion.
Posted via CB10lift likes this.07-02-14 03:36 AMLike 1 -
You want that your virtual keyboard shows up a second virtual keyboard that tells you what virtual key press for symbol an punctuation, because with punctuation "printed" on the virtual keys you cannot see them and need to pull your fingers off.07-02-14 04:02 AMLike 0
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Dear BlackBerry! There's still time to fix the Passport keyboard.
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