11-04-14 03:21 PM
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  1. markusbeutel's Avatar

    Well, it doesn't happen in a iphone... does that bother you more?

    Im going to explain you again because you can't get there by yourself: in practise, plastic interior and leather wouldn't make a difference in usability the same way that "split second" doesn't make a difference in your point of view. Got it?

    Older BBOS7 would fly throught screens and menus.

    This is a very interesting topic, because I saw everybody complaining about specs here, and specs there, but I see nobody complaining about real world use problems like this. Everybody bashes iOS products because they have dual core at 1.4ghz and only 1gb of ram, but they are very fluid, they never lag, they feel like a premium product. Android doesn't, so does BB10... they are not as polished as iOS is, not as seamless and reliable. And when you buy a TOP premium device, you expect it to be polished.


    People only care about the numbers in the specsheet, if there's performance improvements to be made, nobody cares.
    A this point, i'm sure the smartphone comunity would like better a top Spec phone that lags, than a phone with mediocre specs that's fluid and responsive.
    Yeah no. That's BS. Tried out the iPhone 6/6+ before getting the PP, and cycling quickly internet tabs while various apps were open was/is a brutal experience. While there's some lag on the PP, I'd have complete pages reloading on the iPhone. Also, the quality of the iPhone 6's is garbage - played around with a bunch of them (friends and in store), and bendgate is no joke - these things bend like nothing else. There were even multiple in-store models at the Apple store that were bent (that I took a video of and posted on mac rumours). Build quality of the PP by far trumps iPhones - most Android phones do as well.
    11-02-14 01:59 AM
  2. Vector-SS's Avatar
    I'm not sure why people are complaining and making a big deal out of what the OP said. The OP, simply put, drives his car faster than most of you guys, what is the issue? When we all buy a Toyota Camry do we all drive them the same way? No. For those of you who don't consider it an issue good for you. There are other people, myself included that would like this to be improved...and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. With that said, I've found this unresponsiveness to be the single most annoying thing in BB10 and it's been bugging me since day one. I know BB are continuously working on improving the OS and hopefully this thread serves as a purpose to get those "issues" out there but this needs to be ironed out. Maybe BlackBerry will dedicate a few updates simply for smoothness and responsiveness once they get all their features and real issues ironed out?

    With that said, the unresponsiveness the OP speaks of are not only found in the open-then-try-closing-immediately after or try doing another action. This unresponsiveness is found in many other parts of the OS.

    1-Look no further than swiping the app panes on the home screen. For example, I have 3 pages of apps, if I swipe as fast as I naturally do to access the last page, I will miss the 3rd swipe 70% of the time and be left on page 2. Actually, when BB10 was still not even out in the market and a select few had the test devices, I specifically asked some folks about this and whether the phone can "keep up with you" to which if I remember correctly they answered yes! That's not the case for me and this, once again depends on user usage hence whey many of us having opposing views concerning the subject at hand. If you try this action on an iPhone or even an S4 you will know what I'm taking about.

    2-Now, go the hub and do this movement quickly. Open up any of your accounts and swipe back to the hub and immediately try to open up another account. Chances are your phone cannot keep up with you and will result in a miss-swipe or opening another subject by accident. Admittedly, this has gotten better over the last few updates but...the unresponsiveness is still there and it gets worse the more the Hub gets loaded. I live in the Hub so this is a big nuisance to me.

    3- Open up the browser and tap the text box immediately - you will miss it and will have to tap again. This has been there since the very first version of BB10 and it also annoys me.

    4- Open the "settings" page and open any setting you want. Now try swiping back to the main menu of the settings page and you will most definitely miss it and would have to swipe again.

    5- Open multiple apps and try closing them down quickly; you simply cannot. You'd have to wait a split second until you can initiate another action. Not the case with iPhone or even and S4 for example.

    5- This is not an unresponsiveness issue but a real problem and I'm just going to throw it out there without going into details about it; The camera - it is a tragedy to even call it an app. It is slow, laggy, and even chokes the hell out of my phone. Thankfully BB seem to be hiring someone as a camera software developer.

    Those are a few examples and are the ones that mainly annoy me but they're there and there is a lot of them. Again, for some this may not seem as an issue at all because they probably use their devices much slower but I don't and it would be great should BlackBerry be able to iron these things out.

    Moreover, I initially thought this would all be resolved with the Passport's monstrous specs but apparently not. With 3GB and Quad-core I really did think this would make things significantly better, but it doesn't seem to be the case. The main noticeable difference which I'm super thankful for is how much quicker and superior Android apps run, but everything else native is still the same. My biggest disappointment however is when I open 8 apps and I go to the Hub and then try getting back out. The smoothness goes out of the window and the whole OS becomes jittery - that is truly disappointing given the Passport specs.

    What's even more frightening? I had the same issues on my Z10 but not on my Q10 and I've asked this question as to why does it happen only on the Z10 and not the Q10 despite carrying identical specs? The response on the forums was because the Z10 has a bigger screen hence more processing power is needed. So, technically, isn't this supposed to be resolved with the Passport due to the superior specs?

    I can live with the unresponsiveness because it's not a major issue and it will probably be fixed along the way with updates, but having the OS stutter when multiple apps are open makes me cringe every time and is simply unacceptable for a device of this stature.
    11-02-14 01:00 AM
  3. steiale's Avatar
    I have the same problem since 10.3.1
    Hope they will fix it with next release.
    11-02-14 01:51 AM
  4. dracolnyte's Avatar
    yeah i get that too, i guess its not optimized to fully utilize the raw power of 4 snapdragon cores
    11-02-14 02:18 AM
  5. skibnik's Avatar
    Let's get this straight. People are complaining about the responsiveness of the OS during transitions between opening and closing apps? So waiting a few micro seconds for the cpu/gpu to render the opening and closing animations takes too long? Seriously?! It's not like the old days with the spinning hour glass is it? Lol

    Loving my Passport!
    thedose, thymaster and wincyUt like this.
    11-02-14 02:25 AM
  6. Deckard79's Avatar
    Could anyone claiming the swipe upon closing example I have provided to be 'silly' please read the thread to understand

    a) why I chose that example specifically
    b) that there are countless instances of lag that do not require such fast input
    c) that yes, I do know perfectly well how to use a touchscreen so anything looking remotely unusual is because I am reaching round a camera to film

    I understand that this is a long thread now but there is a lot of repetition claiming to 'debunk' this, when that ground has already been covered.

    I have also politely asked users claiming to the contrary to post a video showing their devices not exhibiting such problems, but thus far none have done so.

    I also understand that some believe lag and unresponsiveness to be acceptable. Ok, but please be aware that whilst for some that may be perfectly ok, for just as many others it isn't.

    Finally, this isn't an 'if you don't like it get something else' scenario. I like my Passport and like BlackBerry. But I work in a profession where if you see a bug you raise it with a view to fixing. And this is a bug caused by bad optimisation, clear as day.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Deckard79; 11-02-14 at 02:51 AM.
    jmr1015 likes this.
    11-02-14 02:33 AM
  7. corn1185's Avatar
    I'm not experiencing any lag but even with the lag on his device it's a lot better multitasking device than any ios or android.

    Posted via CB10
    11-02-14 02:59 AM
  8. Moopusmaximus's Avatar
    Summing up this thread: Some select people get upset because while the app close animation is playing, you can't scroll to the left or right. I find this a non-issue. This is just like how you have to 'wait' for the transition animation on an iPhone when you press the home button to finish. This is nitpicking at its very finest.
    thedose and wincyUt like this.
    11-02-14 03:08 AM
  9. Deckard79's Avatar
    Summing up this thread: Some select people get upset because while the app close animation is playing, you can't scroll to the left or right. I find this a non-issue. This is just like how you have to 'wait' for the transition animation on an iPhone when you press the home button to finish. This is nitpicking at its very finest.
    Thanks for your input but no, that doesn't sum up the thread at all and I would suggest you read it (or skip to my last post above).

    Posted via CB10
    11-02-14 03:21 AM
  10. allsportsfan's Avatar
    Thanks for your input but no, that doesn't sum up the thread at all and I would suggest you read it (or skip to my last post above).

    Posted via CB10
    I've worked in software companies and my experience is that if the software can do 80% of what it needs to do very well it's done a good job. There is no perfect software or operating system out there, it would be too expensive to get to 100% perfection, if that is even possible.. BB10 isn't perfect, but my experience with ios and android is that they aren't perfect. You think this is lag, I consider waiting for the stupid android message where it says wait and the app program just dies or using an iphone where I try to multitask and end up rebooting the phone several times a day, that's lag, it makes me unproductive. A few microseconds of switching between apps won't make me unproductive they don't add up to much during the day, those lost minutes at a time do.

    You may not like it, consider it nitpicking but really if you find that BB10 isn't fast enough for you then why not find a system which is because knowing the cost of getting to that 100% I'm sure that John Chen would say the same thing, "It's not worth it, let's invest in developments which will continue to grow the base and provide us a return on investment.
    thedose likes this.
    11-02-14 03:59 AM
  11. Deckard79's Avatar
    I've worked in software companies and my experience is that if the software can do 80% of what it needs to do very well it's done a good job. There is no perfect software or operating system out there, it would be too expensive to get to 100% perfection, if that is even possible.. BB10 isn't perfect, but my experience with ios and android is that they aren't perfect. You think this is lag, I consider waiting for the stupid android message where it says wait and the app program just dies or using an iphone where I try to multitask and end up rebooting the phone several times a day, that's lag, it makes me unproductive. A few microseconds of switching between apps won't make me unproductive they don't add up to much during the day, those lost minutes at a time do.

    You may not like it, consider it nitpicking but really if you find that BB10 isn't fast enough for you then why not find a system which is because knowing the cost of getting to that 100% I'm sure that John Chen would say the same thing, "It's not worth it, let's invest in developments which will continue to grow the base and provide us a return on investment.
    I've already discussed this and responded to similar posts.

    If a piece of software only does 80% of what it's supposed to do then no, I wouldn't call that a good job at all.

    But that's beside the point. The point here is that this bug manifests in unresponsiveness and lag that is highly visible and occurs often. I and many people here believe this to be a real problem because:

    - UI responsiveness (or lack of) is about the first thing anyone notices when using a device, so will contribute to forming early impressions,
    - You shouldn't have to do something twice or more for the device to recognise an input. It is NOT only an issue with fast user input and i have only used this example because it is one that can be replicated with a near 100% rate.
    - In terms of lag, this becomes a problem when the screen is not showing the OS as at the current stage of user input. Users can then respond to lag and make a correction, only for the UI to unexpectedly catch up and result in further inconvenience.

    The UI waiting for background instructions to complete prior to accepting touch commands just isn't what should be happening. I'm surprised some think this doesn't matter.
    Joao Oliveira likes this.
    11-02-14 04:14 AM
  12. allsportsfan's Avatar
    I've already discussed this and responded to similar posts.

    If a piece of software only does 80% of what it's supposed to do then no, I wouldn't call that a good job at all. (Welcome to software companies, if it was perfect then there would never be upgrades, innovation requires risk and with risk means that things don't turn out more times than not)

    But that's beside the point. The point here is that this bug manifests in unresponsiveness and lag that is highly visible and occurs often. I and many people here believe this to be a real problem because: (Return the phone and see if it does it again then, what is your motivation then behind this, all software has bugs

    - UI responsiveness (or lack of) is about the first thing anyone notices when using a device, so will contribute to forming early impressions, (Like many people have countered your arguement here they're not having the same issue, so why are you discounting what these people's impressions because we seem to be pretty happy about the device.)
    - You shouldn't have to do something twice or more for the device to recognise an input. It is NOT only an issue with fast user input and i have only used this example because it is one that can be replicated with a near 100% rate. (Once again, compare it to other systems and you will have these issues)
    - In terms of lag, this becomes a problem when the screen is not showing the OS as at the current stage of user input. Users can then respond to lag and make a correction, only for the UI to unexpectedly catch up and result in further inconvenience.

    The UI waiting for background instructions to complete prior to accepting touch commands just isn't what should be happening. I'm surprised some think this doesn't matter.
    (Once again, you and some people here have encountered the issue, out of the few hundred thousand sold that percentage is less than .0001% Very few businesses will make a perfect device with software, ie. car companies. That error or failure rate is what I would say 99% of companies would want to have.

    I get it you'd like it to be perfect for your particular device, but as much as we'd all like to say that we all build perfect machines, software, and everything else in this world we don't, we're human and we're nowhere close to being 100% perfect.
    thedose likes this.
    11-02-14 04:53 AM
  13. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Since when did 48 become old?
    It wasn't a suggestion, it was an observation, on my own device. I can swipe into the hub immediately after the animation completes...if you can't then I am not seeing that on my device. But I'm an old, slow, 48yo senior citizen, what do I know...
    11-02-14 04:59 AM
  14. Deckard79's Avatar
    (Once again, you and some people here have encountered the issue, out of the few hundred thousand sold that percentage is less than .0001% Very few businesses will make a perfect device with software, ie. car companies. That error or failure rate is what I would say 99% of companies would want to have.

    I get it you'd like it to be perfect for your particular device, but as much as we'd all like to say that we all build perfect machines, software, and everything else in this world we don't, we're human and we're nowhere close to being 100% perfect.
    I've yet to see a video showing a single device which does not exhibit the same issue. If yours does not, I'd appreciate it if you could share.

    Posted via CB10
    11-02-14 05:09 AM
  15. Deckard79's Avatar
    Since when did 48 become old?
    35 feels old with my arthritic joints

    Posted via CB10
    11-02-14 05:10 AM
  16. awakerman's Avatar
    I'm not sure why people are complaining and making a big deal out of what the OP said. The OP, simply put, drives his car faster than most of you guys, what is the issue? When we all buy a Toyota Camry do we all drive them the same way? No. For those of you who don't consider it an issue good for you. There are other people, myself included that would like this to be improved...and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. With that said, I've found this unresponsiveness to be the single most annoying thing in BB10 and it's been bugging me since day one. I know BB are continuously working on improving the OS and hopefully this thread serves as a purpose to get those "issues" out there but this needs to be ironed out. Maybe BlackBerry will dedicate a few updates simply for smoothness and responsiveness once they get all their features and real issues ironed out?

    With that said, the unresponsiveness the OP speaks of are not only found in the open-then-try-closing-immediately after or try doing another action. This unresponsiveness is found in many other parts of the OS.

    1-Look no further than swiping the app panes on the home screen. For example, I have 3 pages of apps, if I swipe as fast as I naturally do to access the last page, I will miss the 3rd swipe 70% of the time and be left on page 2. Actually, when BB10 was still not even out in the market and a select few had the test devices, I specifically asked some folks about this and whether the phone can "keep up with you" to which if I remember correctly they answered yes! That's not the case for me and this, once again depends on user usage hence whey many of us having opposing views concerning the subject at hand. If you try this action on an iPhone or even an S4 you will know what I'm taking about.

    2-Now, go the hub and do this movement quickly. Open up any of your accounts and swipe back to the hub and immediately try to open up another account. Chances are your phone cannot keep up with you and will result in a miss-swipe or opening another subject by accident. Admittedly, this has gotten better over the last few updates but...the unresponsiveness is still there and it gets worse the more the Hub gets loaded. I live in the Hub so this is a big nuisance to me.

    3- Open up the browser and tap the text box immediately - you will miss it and will have to tap again. This has been there since the very first version of BB10 and it also annoys me.

    4- Open the "settings" page and open any setting you want. Now try swiping back to the main menu of the settings page and you will most definitely miss it and would have to swipe again.

    5- Open multiple apps and try closing them down quickly; you simply cannot. You'd have to wait a split second until you can initiate another action. Not the case with iPhone or even and S4 for example.

    5- This is not an unresponsiveness issue but a real problem and I'm just going to throw it out there without going into details about it; The camera - it is a tragedy to even call it an app. It is slow, laggy, and even chokes the hell out of my phone. Thankfully BB seem to be hiring someone as a camera software developer.

    Those are a few examples and are the ones that mainly annoy me but they're there and there is a lot of them. Again, for some this may not seem as an issue at all because they probably use their devices much slower but I don't and it would be great should BlackBerry be able to iron these things out.

    Moreover, I initially thought this would all be resolved with the Passport's monstrous specs but apparently not. With 3GB and Quad-core I really did think this would make things significantly better, but it doesn't seem to be the case. The main noticeable difference which I'm super thankful for is how much quicker and superior Android apps run, but everything else native is still the same. My biggest disappointment however is when I open 8 apps and I go to the Hub and then try getting back out. The smoothness goes out of the window and the whole OS becomes jittery - that is truly disappointing given the Passport specs.

    What's even more frightening? I had the same issues on my Z10 but not on my Q10 and I've asked this question as to why does it happen only on the Z10 and not the Q10 despite carrying identical specs? The response on the forums was because the Z10 has a bigger screen hence more processing power is needed. So, technically, isn't this supposed to be resolved with the Passport due to the superior specs?

    I can live with the unresponsiveness because it's not a major issue and it will probably be fixed along the way with updates, but having the OS stutter when multiple apps are open makes me cringe every time and is simply unacceptable for a device of this stature.
    You said everything!
    That's the way that I feel too.
    Sadly BlackBerry ignored and continuing ignoring these problems.

    Posted via CB10
    11-02-14 06:08 AM
  17. detritus71's Avatar
    Happy to discuss in further detail. Anyone else noticing the same, please comment here.
    Thanks.
    The UI is not responding for a moment after closing an app. Yes. How long the moment is seem to depend on the phone model and the type of sd-card, so you use one (I think, it has been better (but existed) with my phone without using a (really fast) SD-Card). I slowed myself down when closing an app and that helps. Sounds annoying, but how important is that issue... really?
    The behavior of BB 10 looks to me like waiting for deregistering the app from UI and try to make sure, that in the meanwhile nothing non-existent (because of the close) will be used.
    Other systems do such things, too. But they behave different, show some animations or store the inputs and do silly things afterwards. You can have a lot of fun, when acting with lightning speed on a 10000-Server-UI... ;-)
    But I think, it could surely done better than it is in BB10.
    11-02-14 06:09 AM
  18. Vector-SS's Avatar
    Just to add one more thing, I will say that the majority of users will not pick up on such nuisances as the majority probably isn't swiping away frantically trying to do something as fast as possible. The minority, myself included, are just pointing out that there is always room for improvement and it would ultimately benefit BlackBerry if they hear user feedback.

    I'm sure many of those who have been on these forums since BB10 launch have realized that quite a few times, discussions like this turn into something positive with BlackBerry listening, implementing new features, and squashing bugs in future updates taking into consideration user feedbak, so there is absolutely no harm in discussing this "non-issue".
    11-02-14 06:21 AM
  19. jojo beaconsfield's Avatar
    Why make it Private???
    Last edited by jojo beaconsfield; 11-02-14 at 06:41 AM. Reason: wanted to add a Quote as I did in my last post.
    11-02-14 06:36 AM
  20. jojo beaconsfield's Avatar
    Thanks for that. Can you do a really short video of it if poss? (just make private if you don't want the grief I've had so far). If that is the case then that's pretty good proof something could be up with mine hardware-wise.

    Posted via CB10
    Why make his rebut video Private???
    11-02-14 06:39 AM
  21. Deckard79's Avatar
    Why make his rebut video Private???
    Can make it public if he likes - only mentioned it because some people respond angrily and argue on here in response to just about anything.

    Posted via CB10
    11-02-14 06:48 AM
  22. jojo beaconsfield's Avatar
    Can make it public if he likes - only mentioned it because some people respond angrily and argue on here in response to just about anything.

    Posted via CB10
    That won't be the case if he does show how you could be doing something wrong,right?,anyway I have to admit the little X you have to hit at the bottom right hand corner to get the app to disappear is a little hard to hit,I just hit it a little to the left and it works,fine.
    11-02-14 07:03 AM
  23. Deckard79's Avatar
    That won't be the case if he does show how you could be doing something wrong,right?,anyway I have to admit the little X you have to hit at the bottom right hand corner to get the app to disappear is a little hard to hit,I just hit it a little to the left and it works,fine.
    Well either way, a video illustrating a device that doesn't behave this way would be really welcome.

    The x isn't hard to hit after practice, really, but I think this was more a case of the UI not responding quickly whilst background processes complete. See it in slow mo and my input was pretty accurate.

    If someone can show this not happening that's good because it raises the prospect that a batch might have a hardware problem. But so far no one has and it looks highly, highly likely that it's the OS and that it's present for everyone.

    Posted via CB10
    Joao Oliveira likes this.
    11-02-14 07:11 AM
  24. sportline's Avatar
    It:s laggy at times whilst unlocking..sometime I push unlock button twice.

    Posted via CB10
    Deckard79 likes this.
    11-02-14 08:43 AM
  25. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Let's get this straight. People are complaining about the responsiveness of the OS during transitions between opening and closing apps? So waiting a few micro seconds for the cpu/gpu to render the opening and closing animations takes too long? Seriously?! It's not like the old days with the spinning hour glass is it? Lol

    Loving my Passport!
    So we should be glad that we buy a phone that simply has a screen with color and camera, because in the old days they were only black and white LCD's.... oh... we should be glad that we have a mobile phone at all, they didn't exist when I was born...

    /sarcasm
    Deckard79 and thymaster like this.
    11-02-14 08:44 AM
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