11-04-14 03:21 PM
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  1. Deckard79's Avatar
    A video showing something to the contrary would be welcome.

    Don't want to argue - it would be good to know with 100% certainty if this is poor OS optimisation or hardware.

    I work in software. Happy to keep this objective.

    Posted via CB10
    Joao Oliveira and SharonRD like this.
    11-01-14 06:30 PM
  2. power5's Avatar
    There are many events being processed in a small period of time. Again, I don't think this is typical of how people use a phone.

    You can say that "optimizations" are needed but software engineering is often about making choices. One thing is prioritized over another. We don't know what choices went into the OS as we use it.

    For me, having used many different devices with different OSs, I find BB10 to be my favorite mobile OS. I would characterize the OS as fast and responsive even in spite of the behavior shown in the video.
    The one time I would want responsiveness is in a situation shown in the videos. I just closed an app, now I want to flick through my apps and pick a new one but can't. I have to wait 2 seconds to do so. Seems trivial and I think it mostly is, but still creates an impression that most would not perceive as impressive.
    11-01-14 06:32 PM
  3. Deckard79's Avatar
    He said he did not remember it on his Z30, but I think many people look back with fondness on previous items when the new does not live up to expectations. Not saying this is definitely the case, but there is a reason the saying, "viewing the past through rose colored lenses" exists.

    ARM chips cannot do as much at the same time as x86 processors. So definitely when we try to do multiple things at once, that is when things slow down. ARM is sequential process, x86 is parallel process.
    I can't compare the two directly so cannot say with 100% certainty that my Z30 experience was not expectation bias (lower expectations based on its older hardware).

    It did *seem* better.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 06:33 PM
  4. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    There are many events being processed in a small period of time. Again, I don't think this is typical of how people use a phone.

    You can say that "optimizations" are needed but software engineering is often about making choices. One thing is prioritized over another. We don't know what choices went into the OS as we use it.

    For me, having used many different devices with different OSs, I find BB10 to be my favorite mobile OS. I would characterize the OS as fast and responsive even in spite of the behavior shown in the video.
    Again, I ask you whats so unrealistic about closing an app, and wanting to open another one right away? Every time you close an app, you put the phone straight to the pocket? As you can see in my video, you don't have to have many apps open, or close a few at the same time. You can have a single app open. When you close it, there is a lag before you can do something else... How that isn't real world use? How do you use your phone? you don't close apps?

    With todays powerfull Quad-cores and 3GB of ram like the passport has, im pretty sure this phone can do a lot of stuff at the same time. If the iphone with dual core 1.4ghz phone and 1 gb of ram can, why passport can not? The answer is, it can, and this will be fixed in the future i'm sure.

    Closing an app is stuff we do every day, and having a lag in response right after closing an app does impact the use of the phone, it's as normal as it gets. BB10 is my favourite OS aswell, and I woulnd't trade by another, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved and made even better.

    And i'm glad to see people like OP to notice "speed" issues that really matter, matters a lot more than "specs"
    11-01-14 06:37 PM
  5. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    I have a much more simplistic suggestion.

    1. Use the cleaner specified for eye glasses it's non abrasive and removes any oil left by our fingers.

    2. If you have dry skin like me and use cream, then it's possible that is leaving smudges or affecting the screen performance - it has happened to me since I used 9900, 3GS, IP4/4S/5, Z10, Z30, and Q10.

    Again simplistic but it may change the performance lag you're experiencing.

    BlackBerry - Accept is no substitute. Period!
    11-01-14 06:38 PM
  6. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    The one time I would want responsiveness is in a situation shown in the videos. I just closed an app, now I want to flick through my apps and pick a new one but can't. I have to wait 2 seconds to do so. Seems trivial and I think it mostly is, but still creates an impression that most would not perceive as impressive.
    Totally agree. Opening and closing apps in the home menu is a base function of the phone, i find weird how lawguyman says it's not how people use the phone.
    11-01-14 06:41 PM
  7. Deckard79's Avatar
    Again, I ask you whats so unrealistic about closing an app, and wanting to open another one right away? Every time you close an app, you put the phone straight to the pocket? As you can see in my video, you don't have to have many apps open, or close a few at the same time. You can have a single app open. When you close it, there is a lag before you can do something else... How that isn't real world use?

    With todays powerfull Quad-cores and 3GB of ram like the passport has, im pretty sure this phone can do a lot of stuff at the same time. If the iphone with dual core 1.4ghz phone and 1 gb of ram can, why passport can not? The answer is, it can, and this will be fixed in the future i'm sure.

    Closing an app is stuff we do every day, and having a lag in response right after closing an app does impact the use of the phone, it's as normal as it gets. BB10 is my favourite OS aswell, and I woulnd't trade by another, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved and made even better.
    The 801 can handle multi-threading just fine (as can the S4, though the 801 is so much quicker).

    With proper coding, we shouldn't see this. Particularly with the Passport hardware.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 06:42 PM
  8. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    I have a much more simplistic suggestion.

    1. Use the cleaner specified for eye glasses it's non abrasive and removes any oil left by our fingers.

    2. If you have dry skin like me and use cream, then it's possible that is leaving smudges or affecting the screen performance - it has happened to me since I used 9900, 3GS, IP4/4S/5, Z10, Z30, and Q10.

    Again simplistic but it may change the performance lag you're experiencing.

    BlackBerry - Accept is no substitute. Period!
    It's a software issue... software issues arent affected by oils or creams or dry fingers. The touch screen is very responsive, it's the software that doesn't respond in that split second that you close an app in this very specific situation only.
    11-01-14 06:43 PM
  9. Deckard79's Avatar
    I have a much more simplistic suggestion.

    1. Use the cleaner specified for eye glasses it's non abrasive and removes any oil left by our fingers.

    2. If you have dry skin like me and use cream, then it's possible that is leaving smudges or affecting the screen performance - it has happened to me since I used 9900, 3GS, IP4/4S/5, Z10, Z30, and Q10.

    Again simplistic but it may change the performance lag you're experiencing.

    BlackBerry - Accept is no substitute. Period!
    Thanks for the suggestion. I think the problem is more with the OS recognising my inputs rather than the screen doing so.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 06:44 PM
  10. awakerman's Avatar
    Unfortunately the passport has many lags, not only the type that the OP shows in his video, but a lot of stuttering at the animations-transitions.
    This is unacceptable for a Device with these specs..
    Previously, I owned a z30 and I have to tell that 10.2.1 is a lot smoother than the 10.3.
    I like BlackBerry a lot ,but also I am not a fool.
    The lag is something that makes me turn the back to the android and after some ios and wp8 experience I feel like the passport is a step backwards in terms of smoothness and responsiveness.
    I see that the android L , is a huge step in the right direction and this make the newest versions of bb10, the most laggy os at the moment.
    Sad but absolutely true.

    Posted via CB10
    Deckard79 likes this.
    11-01-14 06:44 PM
  11. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    The 801 can handle multi-threading just fine (as can the S4, though the 801 is so much quicker).

    With proper coding, we shouldn't see this. Particularly with the Passport hardware.

    Posted via CB10
    For sure. It will be corrected sooner or later, I bet this could have a simple fix once they indentify it and decide to correct it.
    11-01-14 06:45 PM
  12. Deckard79's Avatar
    For sure. It will be corrected sooner or later, I bet this could have a simple fix once they indentify it and decide to correct it.
    Mr Clewley did suggest he wasn't experiencing this with his current 10.3.1 build. Time will tell I suppose.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 06:46 PM
  13. robitaille93's Avatar
    To be honest that just looks like the app minimizing and app closing animations are merely taking precedence over touch input. Not lag, and merely a software decision.
    11-01-14 06:47 PM
  14. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Unfortunately the passport has many lags, not only the type that the OP shows in his video, but a lot of stuttering at the animations-transitions.
    This is unacceptable for a Device with these specs..
    Previously, I owned a z30 and I have to tell that 10.2.1 is a lot smoother than the 10.3.
    I like BlackBerry a lot ,but also I am not a fool.
    The lag is something that make me turn the back to the android and after some ios and wp8 experience I feel like the passport is a step backwards in terms of smoothness and responsiveness.
    I see that the android L , is a huge step in the right dimension and this make the newest versions of bb10, the most laggy os at the moment.
    Sad but absolutely true.

    Posted via CB10
    earlier versions of 10.3 yes, but latest versions in my opinion are as smooth as 10.2.1, but still some stuff like this to correct. Try 10.3.0.1418, it's the best i've used so far, android apps run much better than in 1052. (I tried 10.3.1 but needs a lot of optimizations)
    11-01-14 06:48 PM
  15. Deckard79's Avatar
    To be honest that just looks like the app minimizing and app closing animations are merely taking precedence over touch input. Not lag, and merely a software decision.
    Someone else suggested this too, but I disagree - the animation is long completed. And there are countless other scenarios where unresponsiveness and lag are present (for me and many others).

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 06:49 PM
  16. power5's Avatar
    My Note 3 has the option of turning off animations. I did that on day one due to similar complaints about the Note 3 when it was launched. WP7 used animations to make it look smoother due to it being on more than a generation behind hardware compared to android. Animations are worthless to me. Just make the app close when I click close. I don't need a disappearing animation to make me feel better about closing an app.
    Joao Oliveira and thymaster like this.
    11-01-14 06:49 PM
  17. Deckard79's Avatar
    Right, going to sign off for today. Thanks to everyone who responded sensibly.

    I'm not here to do anything other than report a bug so that it can be fixed. Have tried to respond politely to everyone but would appreciate no more nasty stuff.

    Btw, have reported this to Michael Clewley and shown him the video. He's acknowledged it and told me it is being looked into.

    Goodnight.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 06:55 PM
  18. awakerman's Avatar
    earlier versions of 10.3 yes, but latest versions in my opinion are as smooth as 10.2.1, but still some stuff like this to correct. Try 10.3.0.1418, it's the best i've used so far, android apps run much better than in 1052. (I tried 10.3.1 but needs a lot of optimizations)
    I Am running the latest .1418 on my passport but this didn't change my mind considering the huge raw power difference between z30 and my passport.
    I wish I could load a 10.2.1 to the passport to see how it behaves..

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 06:55 PM
  19. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Someone else suggested this too, but I disagree - the animation is long completed. And there are countless other scenarios where unresponsiveness and lag are present (for me and many others).

    Posted via CB10
    I would assume that the OS only "activates" the swipe motion once the process of closing the app (animation+closing app) is completed. Maybe the animation isn't long enough for the app to close, so the OS waits for the app to fully close to "release" other OS funtions.
    11-01-14 06:55 PM
  20. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    I Am running the latest .1418 on my passport but this didn't change my mind considering the huge raw power difference between z30 and my passport.
    I wish I could load a 10.2.1 to the passport to see how it behaves..

    Posted via CB10
    It depends... Quad-core processors are very good to fool the specs "wh0res" that exist in spades in the smartphone comunity. I bet most apps don't even use 2 cores, let alone 4 or even 8.... Passport might have many cores, but if apps use 1 or 2 cores, it might not have advantage over previous dual core processors.

    Look at the iphone, has only 2 cores, but very powerfull 2 cores... So it's actualy the fastest phone in most apps compared to androids with multi-cores.

    Very few desktop software use 4 cores... why phones would need 4 cores? I'm sure most cores spend their life just sitting doing nothing
    11-01-14 06:58 PM
  21. Swagg777's Avatar
    Opening apps within folders is pretty bad

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 07:00 PM
  22. aerotus110's Avatar
    I have watched your video and tried to replicate this 'lag'. Yes, if i really want to, i could replicate this by mindlessly closing apps and purposely swipe the screen almost without lifting my finger off the screen after touching the 'x' to close the app. I have never needed to swipe that fast right after closing the app

    I have not used wp, but bb10 is far superior in terms of fluidness not having to double click the home button or look for the multitask icon. This is speaking from using iphone and sony experia z1.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 07:17 PM
  23. awakerman's Avatar
    It depends... Quad-core processors are very good to fool the specs "wh0res" that exist in spades in the smartphone comunity. I bet most apps don't even use 2 cores, let alone 4 or even 8.... Passport might have many cores, but if apps use 1 or 2 cores, it might not have advantage over previous dual core processors.

    Look at the iphone, has only 2 cores, but very powerfull 2 cores... So it's actualy the fastest phone in most apps compared to androids with multi-cores.

    Very few desktop software use 4 cores... why phones would need 4 cores? I'm sure most cores spend their life just sitting doing nothing
    Yes, I see your point and I agree with you.But in general performance (app starting, processing etc) passport is a way faster than z30 .
    The Os glitches is the source of the problems that affect the user experience ..
    Software optimizing is the key. I hope BlackBerry will not sacrifice the UI smoothness and fluidity for the raw productivity and enterprise use..

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 07:25 PM
  24. power5's Avatar
    I have watched your video and tried to replicate this 'lag'. Yes, if i really want to, i could replicate this by mindlessly closing apps and purposely swipe the screen almost without lifting my finger off the screen after touching the 'x' to close the app. I have never needed to swipe that fast right after closing the app

    I have not used wp, but bb10 is far superior in terms of fluidness not having to double click the home button or look for the multitask icon. This is speaking from using iphone and sony experia z1.

    Posted via CB10
    Tested with my Note 3. I can swipe away apps as fast as my reflexes allow with no hesitation. I can also hit the home button at any time and swipe through my home screens with no hesitation. It has to be an OS problem.
    11-01-14 07:34 PM
  25. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Yes, I see your point and I agree with you.But in general performance (app starting, processing etc) passport is a way faster than z30 .
    The Os glitches is the source of the problems that affect the user experience ..
    Software optimizing is the key. I hope BlackBerry will not sacrifice the UI smoothness and fluidity for the raw productivity and enterprise use..

    Posted via CB10
    in opening some heavier apps yes it is, and is A LOT faster and smoother in android apps. but in 90% of the stuff I don't find it much faster than my previous Q10. The Snapdragon 801 does give it some more consistency that previous blackberry's could not have at some moments
    11-01-14 07:56 PM
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