11-04-14 02:21 PM
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  1. power5's Avatar
    Thanks for the post. I only chose the app-close scenario for the video because it was the only one I can show with near 100% consistency. The unresponsiveness and lag occurs throughout the OS experience however, and it isn't confined to when my inputs are fast. Slow input can be ignored at times as well, and the OS at times 'jumps' to catch up.

    It does not prevent me from using the device but I do find it an annoyance, as (as you have mentioned and we agree on) it is a bug resulting from poor optimisation of very good hardware.

    Sorry, but I sold my Z30 the day my Passport was purchased. I was not anticipating this problem.

    Posted via CB10
    I was just asking if when you close multiple windows, does it do the same thing and not take the touch input from the delete action just as when you try to swipe after closing. Or is it only swipes that are not immediately acted upon?

    Do you know anyone else with another BB running same OS version you could trouble? I know any other user of another device could provide video, but then there would be the obvious arguing about who was doing what in which way.
    11-01-14 04:33 PM
  2. Deckard79's Avatar
    I was just asking if when you close multiple windows, does it do the same thing and not take the touch input from the delete action just as when you try to swipe after closing. Or is it only swipes that are not immediately acted upon?

    Do you know anyone else with another BB running same OS version you could trouble? I know any other user of another device could provide video, but then there would be the obvious arguing about who was doing what in which way.
    I'll just test this now...

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 04:35 PM
  3. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    I was just asking if when you close multiple windows, does it do the same thing and not take the touch input from the delete action just as when you try to swipe after closing. Or is it only swipes that are not immediately acted upon?

    Do you know anyone else with another BB running same OS version you could trouble? I know any other user of another device could provide video, but then there would be the obvious arguing about who was doing what in which way.
    I had my passport in different OS's and it does the same thing. Even the Q10 did it, it's the OS. Even the leaked 10.3.1 does it. I guess it would be some kind of "wait" for the animation to fully end or something.

    I can post a video aswell if you want
    11-01-14 04:36 PM
  4. Deckard79's Avatar
    I was just asking if when you close multiple windows, does it do the same thing and not take the touch input from the delete action just as when you try to swipe after closing. Or is it only swipes that are not immediately acted upon?

    Do you know anyone else with another BB running same OS version you could trouble? I know any other user of another device could provide video, but then there would be the obvious arguing about who was doing what in which way.
    It happens regardless of the touch input. So, if I have multiple apps open and go to close each in quick succession, the first input is immediate but subsequent inputs lag by between 3/4 - 1 second.

    Would be keen to see other contrasting videos to ascertain whether it is hardware, and no I'm not one for squabbling (though so many folk here are).

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 04:39 PM
  5. jbarmi's Avatar
    I have noticed that when you are holding the phone, it's more responsive that when it is lying on a flat surface... it does take a few tries when it is flat on a hard surface.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 04:43 PM
  6. Deckard79's Avatar
    I had my passport in different OS's and it does the same thing. Even the Q10 did it, it's the OS. Even the leaked 10.3.1 does it. I guess it would be some kind of "wait" for the animation to fully end or something.

    I can post a video aswell if you want
    Thing is, the animation is long complete and it happens even when not off the back of any animation whatsoever. I would appreciate the video (though beware of... well, you've seen these people already!).

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 04:47 PM
  7. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Thing is, the animation is long complete and it happens even when not off the back of any animation whatsoever. I would appreciate the video (though beware of... well, you've seen these people already!).

    Posted via CB10
    Here's the video I just made. I'm using latest version of 10.3.0. Tried 10.3.1 but had a few bugs and speed issues, this is the fastest OS so far for passport that I tried.

    Deckard79 likes this.
    11-01-14 05:00 PM
  8. Deckard79's Avatar
    Here's the video I just made. I'm using latest version of 10.3.0. Tried 10.3.1 but had a few bugs and speed issues, this is the fastest OS so far for passport that I tried.

    Yup, exact same. Thanks for posting - gone from 90% to almost 100% this is poorly optimised code.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 05:03 PM
  9. Deckard79's Avatar
    Here's the video I just made. I'm using latest version of 10.3.0. Tried 10.3.1 but had a few bugs and speed issues, this is the fastest OS so far for passport that I tried.

    Incidentally, I mentioned this issue to Michael Clewley and told him I'd also tried the 10.3.1 that was accidentally sent OTA. He was aware of that 10.3.1 build and told me it hadn't been optimised for Passport (hence the truly dreadful performance).

    It makes me chuckle that some Passport users here are so in denial that they're probably using it now, convincing themselves at how 'snappy' it is.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 05:07 PM
  10. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Yup, exact same. Thanks for posting - gone from 90% to almost 100% this is poorly optimised code.

    Posted via CB10
    I call it "androidness"... BB10 also has the real LAG touch screen lag, that WP8 and iOS don't have nearly as much. Like you see in this video slowed down to 120fps:



    In iOS and WP8, things are more responsive, and feel like they are more "under your finger", Android has that lag of movement between your finger and screen movement, and BB10 as it aswell. New powerfull processors have reduced this lag on android a lot, but it's still there.

    for example doing pich to zoom in android and BB10 is a lot less responsive than WP8 and iOS
    11-01-14 05:07 PM
  11. chewblock's Avatar
    I think the problem is the way you swipe your fingers on the screen.

    It seems like you are swiping extremely fast and inaccurately....

    Slow down a bit and there won't be any lag.
    11-01-14 05:07 PM
  12. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    Incidentally, I mentioned this issue to Michael Clewley and told him I'd also tried the 10.3.1 that was accidentally sent OTA. He was aware of that 10.3.1 build and told me it hadn't been optimised for Passport (hence the truly dreadful performance).

    It makes me chuckle that some Passport users here are so in denial that they're probably using it now, convincing themselves at how 'snappy' it is.

    Posted via CB10
    I came from the Q10, and i can tell you, 90 or 95% of the stuff i do on the passport, doesn't feel any faster than the Q10. Android apps is where you see significant improvement. But people want specs, and phone might not be any faster, but that placebo effect of the specs make people feel that is a lot faster.
    11-01-14 05:11 PM
  13. Deckard79's Avatar
    I call it "androidness"... BB10 also has the real LAG touch screen lag, that WP8 and iOS don't have nearly as much. Like you see in this video slowed down to 120fps:



    In iOS and WP8, things are more responsive, and feel like they are more "under your finger", Android has that lag of movement between your finger and screen movement, and BB10 as it aswell. New powerfull processors have reduced this lag on android a lot, but it's still there.

    for example doing pich to zoom in android and BB10 is a lot less responsive than WP8 and iOS
    Yeah, had some laggy Android devices in my time (that I have rapidly lost all patience with and gotten rid of).

    Not responding to inputs though is a real pain in the arse. No excuses really - the hardware is there. Just code properly, and test it properly.

    Posted via CB10
    Joao Oliveira likes this.
    11-01-14 05:11 PM
  14. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    I think the problem is the way you swipe your fingers on the screen.

    It seems like you are swiping extremely fast and inaccurately....

    Slow down a bit and there won't be any lag.
    Just no. When you get used to the phone, you want to get things done FAST. After some use, we have that muscle memory that let us do things fast without thinking, so "slow down" is not the answer. It's a lack of optimization so it should be corrected.
    The thinking that "mediocre" is "good enought" is what sinks blackberry.
    11-01-14 05:13 PM
  15. lawguyman's Avatar
    You can screw up any OS if you push it the way it is being pushed in the video.

    Open an App. While it is loading, shut it down. Then, try to do something else before all these tasks have been accomplished.

    I can get Windows apps to hang doing these kinds of things.

    To me, this does not seem like typical device use. Who opens and closes that many apps at the same time, over and over again?

    So, I don't know whether there is anything wrong with the code or the device is working within the sets of compromises that BlackBerry has been designed. I'm not losing sleep over this kind of behavior.
    thedose and spikesolie like this.
    11-01-14 05:15 PM
  16. vader42's Avatar
    On my passport, my wife can sometimes take 3 attempts to make something happen (swipe, click etc). I get it every time. She has actually had this with almost every capacitive phone either of us has owned. My kids think it is funny - the only phone that really works is the lunia which works through gloves. We have been using mobiles since the late 80s, and touch screens since they were brought out.

    I don't pretend to know what is causing this, but it is not the phone. From an engineering point of view, the problem follows the person not the device.

    Has anyone else had problems with your passport?

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 05:15 PM
  17. Deckard79's Avatar
    Just no. When you get used to the phone, you want to get things done FAST. After some use, we have that muscle memory that let us do things fast without thinking, so "slow down" is not the answer. It's a lack of optimization so it should be corrected.
    The thinking that "mediocre" is "good enought" is what sinks blackberry.
    Agreed. It's not what you want when trying to coax users back from competitors.

    It annoys me, and I'm a pretty steadfast BlackBerry user.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 05:15 PM
  18. vader42's Avatar
    Oh, should have added that the problem isn't only on phones. She hates trackpad and touchscreens on tablets. The latter was easy to fix with a stylus. Have you tried a capacitive stylus? That would eliminate technique as a problem.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 05:17 PM
  19. Deckard79's Avatar
    You can screw up any OS if you push it the way it is being pushed in the video.

    Open an App. While it is loading, shut it down. Then, try to do something else before all these tasks have been accomplished.

    I can get Windows apps to hang doing these kinds of things.

    To me, this does not seem like typical device use. Who opens and closes that many apps at the same time, over and over again?

    So, I don't know whether there is anything wrong with the code or the device is working within the sets of compromises that BlackBerry has been designed. I'm not losing sleep over this kind of behavior.
    Thanks for commenting. The close app video was only used as an example because, as I mentioned in other posts, other instances are less predictable and can't be replicated so consistently.

    I use the device fairly quickly, but not anything unusual. The UI can fail to respond even with slower input, in apps, out of apps, minimising, maximising, waking from sleep.

    In fact, you can see a lack of response to the close command and wake command in my video as well. I can assure you I am accurate enough (typed all these posts on the device).

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 05:20 PM
  20. wolexf's Avatar
    Thanks for the post. I only chose the app-close scenario for the video because it was the only one I can show with near 100% consistency. The unresponsiveness and lag occurs throughout the OS experience however, and it isn't confined to when my inputs are fast. Slow input can be ignored at times as well, and the OS at times 'jumps' to catch up.

    It does not prevent me from using the device but I do find it an annoyance, as (as you have mentioned and we agree on) it is a bug resulting from poor optimisation of very good hardware.

    Sorry, but I sold my Z30 the day my Passport was purchased. I was not anticipating this problem.

    Posted via CB10
    OP what OS version are you using???

    I don't have any lag on my passport and i will advice you to revert to OS version 10.3.0.1418 SR 908 its the best 10.3 OS till date in my opinion. I read through all the 10.3.1. XXXX OS version threads and they seem to have various bugs that can affect your device performance. Try to revert for now untill there is an official 10.3.1 release. kindly share your experience after reverting.
    11-01-14 05:20 PM
  21. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    You can screw up any OS if you push it the way it is being pushed in the video.

    Open an App. While it is loading, shut it down. Then, try to do something else before all these tasks have been accomplished.

    I can get Windows apps to hang doing these kinds of things.

    To me, this does not seem like typical device use. Who opens and closes that many apps at the same time, over and over again?

    So, I don't know whether there is anything wrong with the code or the device is working within the sets of compromises that BlackBerry has been designed. I'm not losing sleep over this kind of behavior.
    What you mean with being pushed? it's just closing an app + swiping to the menu. is it "unreal" closing an app, and swipe to the right to open another one? Seems pretty ramdom phone usage to me.

    This is lack of optimization, and i'm sure it will get corrected sooner or later.

    Nobody is loosing it's sleep over this, but is a optimization that could be made, and improvement is all about spotting, fixing and adding small details.
    11-01-14 05:21 PM
  22. Deckard79's Avatar
    OP what OS version are you using???

    I don't have any lag on my passport and i will advice you to revert to OS version 10.3.0.1418 SR 908 its the best 10.3 OS till date in my opinion. I read through all the 10.3.1. XXXX OS version threads and they seem to have various bugs that can affect your device performance. Try to revert for now untill there is an official 10.3.1 release. kindly share your experience after reverting.
    Thanks for that - I'm actually using a clean install of 10.3.0.1418. It has happened on the three 10.3 builds I have tried.

    Posted via CB10
    11-01-14 05:22 PM
  23. Joao Oliveira's Avatar
    OP what OS version are you using???

    I don't have any lag on my passport and i will advice you to revert to OS version 10.3.0.1418 SR 908 its the best 10.3 OS till date in my opinion. I read through all the 10.3.1. XXXX OS version threads and they seem to have various bugs that can affect your device performance. Try to revert for now untill there is an official 10.3.1 release. kindly share your experience after reverting.
    I have 10.3.0.1418 SR 908, is the one you can see in my video. Close an app and immediately swipe to the menu. As far as I know every OS does it, my Q10 did it, so your should do aswell. Try it exactly like i did on my video that I posted before
    11-01-14 05:23 PM
  24. lawguyman's Avatar
    What you mean with being pushed? it's just closing an app + swiping to the menu. is it "unreal" closing an app, and swipe to the right to open another one? Seems pretty ramdom phone usage to me.

    This is lack of optimization, and i'm sure it will get corrected sooner or later.

    Nobody is loosing it's sleep over this, but is a optimization that could be made, and improvement is all about spotting, fixing and adding small details.
    There are many events being processed in a small period of time. Again, I don't think this is typical of how people use a phone.

    You can say that "optimizations" are needed but software engineering is often about making choices. One thing is prioritized over another. We don't know what choices went into the OS as we use it.

    For me, having used many different devices with different OSs, I find BB10 to be my favorite mobile OS. I would characterize the OS as fast and responsive even in spite of the behavior shown in the video.
    thedose likes this.
    11-01-14 05:30 PM
  25. power5's Avatar
    Oh, should have added that the problem isn't only on phones. She hates trackpad and touchscreens on tablets. The latter was easy to fix with a stylus. Have you tried a capacitive stylus? That would eliminate technique as a problem.

    Posted via CB10
    He said he did not remember it on his Z30, but I think many people look back with fondness on previous items when the new does not live up to expectations. Not saying this is definitely the case, but there is a reason the saying, "viewing the past through rose colored lenses" exists.

    ARM chips cannot do as much at the same time as x86 processors. So definitely when we try to do multiple things at once, that is when things slow down. ARM is sequential process, x86 is parallel process.
    11-01-14 05:30 PM
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