10-01-14 08:05 AM
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  1. Elite1's Avatar
    Oh you guys. The verge looks at things like normal people do. If you think normal people want a passport your crazy. BB faithful who are still using bb7 and newer bb10 keyboard devices yes but normal people have moved to touch screen typing and this device is just weird for the mainstream. I haven't held this our used it but people who pound out emails and such as my bosses would love this. People who just im and do normal Android and iPhone things wouldn't go for this. They just wouldn't. BB said there going for enterprise and this is killer for that.
    To be fair, Samsung Note went retro with its stylus, did it well, and is a reasonably popular device.
    Taking something that's maybe a bit out of style and putting an innovative new take on it doesn't make it old-fashioned.
    09-24-14 05:52 PM
  2. offyoutoddle's Avatar
    I couldn't agree less. BB10 has a high barrier to entry with its gesture driven nature. Or did i miss the roaring success the first generation of phones have proven to be?

    More powerful interface yes, and probably best out there. But intuitive? My god, no! The average person hasn't got a clue when faced with this. i once watched with amusement an team of sales assistants in the shop totally fail to explain to a customer how to make a phone call on a Z10. And btw, that's what counts - the average person. Call them stupid if you will, but they will make or break a platform. BlackBerry know this, which is why the introductions are now enforced on a fresh device. And they return to a tried and tested hardware config in the classic.

    The passport will appeal to BlackBerry fans for sure. It may even appeal to a new audience of professional working people it is currently being pitched at. It is unlikely to hit its mark with the average person, and tbh I'd say the Verge's reaction (echoed also on WSJ, and many other reviewers) will be a popular one , and would only be dismissed at BlackBerry's peril.

    I find the Verge review extremely laughable as they continue to show their ignorance and baffonary! To say that BB10 is unintuitive and hard to use or get used to is absolute nonsense and downright absurd!!! And they also claimed that its hard to manage hub and sometimes don't want all messages their, do they realize you can go into each category separately!! No mention of battery life!? Thought that was important. This brings into question that they actually use the phone for more than a day! Seriously pathetic.
    MazoMark and anon8656116 like this.
    09-24-14 06:07 PM
  3. ericdude's Avatar
    I've never used a blackberry so don't know what the UI is like. Can someone tell me more about this part of theverge's review?

    "Recent apps show up in a grid on the homescreen, but they arent permanent and its never clear where the last app I used will land."

    Does this mean app icons always shift around because that can get annoying. Does this also mean I can't position them wherever I want like on an iphone?
    09-24-14 06:08 PM
  4. Elite1's Avatar
    I'm not so sure tbh. What would benefit them most? Sure, the ability to read a mail without scanning backwards and forwards is practical, but far more practical is the ability to pick the damn thing up and just start using it. Some people don't want a phone with a high learning curve, and comments on people's intelligence won't change the fact that if it is too complicated, they will chose a simpler design and go elsewhere. Lets be honest, no one could say bb10 is straight forward, and this new keyboard only adds to the complications in use from what I can see of it.
    Let's be honest, BB10 is simple to use and laid out in a much more logical way than iOS.
    If I say "Let's be honest" does that make you agree? NO?!? Shocking.
    (Btw, I wholeheartedly agree with you that comments that people lack intelligence if they don't like BB10 are not a positive thing for BB10. But it seems every smartphone platform have their fans that get overly defensive at any hint of criticism.)

    I honestly do believe BB10 is easy to use and learn. BBRY took the initial criticism to heart. Since BB 10.2 (or maybe even 10.1), there are extremely simple onscreen graphics that very quickly explain the UI. Are you tapping the screen? An arrow appears to show you need to swipe up.
    What was originally legitimate criticism is now unfair propaganda.

    I think people will want a phone they can pick up and use. I think they will probably want to watch media on it without unsightly black bars, and use apps from google's ecosystem. I don't think they want a phone that can't be used one handed, and I'm pretty sure no one wants a phone that is far too easy to drop. That's quite an indoctrination programme required there I'd say.

    Lets just say i'm looking with hope and anticipation at the Classic release.
    Are you sure no one wants an iPhone 6 Plus, Galaxy Note, Galaxy Mega, Xperia Ultra, etc? These are devices with a larger form factor that is similarly difficult to use one-handed in many cases. In most of those examples, I'd say the other devices I mentioned are much easier to drop.
    Passport is wider instead of longer, making it more balanced to hold. Without a case on, Passport (in black anyway) has a naturally "grippy" texture to the backing.

    Some people won't want a phone they can't use one-handed. Some people will care about the letterboxing when watching 16:9 video, and many won't.
    I agree with you that missing Google services is definitely a mark against BB10 in general. Some people won't use BB10 just because of that, and I can respect that. For many others that won't be factor.

    If BBRY does smart advertising, they could have a sleeper hit. If they don't, Passport very well might slide into obscurity like the Z30. Time will tell if they've learned this lesson yet.
    spike12 likes this.
    09-24-14 06:12 PM
  5. flyersfan76's Avatar
    These reviewers make me so angry!

    How are you going to complain about not being able to type with 1 hand? Every single qwerty keyboard phone ever has required two hands to type with?

    Complain about black boxes around widescreen videos. What do you expect it's a square screen?

    Complain about not being as fast at typing on this vs. touchscreen. What do you expect, to be a speed typist on a qwerty phone after using it for a few days versus using your touchscreen phone for the last 4 years?

    Complain that OS is "hard to learn." Yeah that's because for the last 5 years you've been using iOS or Android. It's not that BB10 is hard to learn, it's that your minds have just been programed to try and use iOS and Android gestures on BB10.

    Good grief!
    Seriously you get used to what you know. These reviewers need to sit back and try to wipe their brains of whatever they think they are going to do. It might help to read the directions a little. All the gestures of the other 3 platforms aren't straight forward either. I can't even get the tiling of the apps (WebOS like) to come up. When they do it is an accident.


    And speaking from experience.
    1. I have tried to pinch and zoom my vehicles GPS screen.

    2. The user interface on the following: Mercedes, Porcshe, Land Rover, Ford and Audi are ALL very much different. Some do not even have a touch screen. Do these reviewers and their auto reviewing counter parts complain about those?

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-14 06:16 PM
  6. VeryBumpy's Avatar
    More powerful interface yes, and probably best out there. But intuitive? My god, no! The average person hasn't got a clue when faced with this.
    Well said and I hope Blackberry does NOT listen or cater to the average person. Thing that attracts me the most about my Blackberry is it's high efficiency through it's UI, OS and keyboard.
    09-24-14 06:16 PM
  7. Elite1's Avatar
    I've never used a blackberry so don't know what the UI is like. Can someone tell me more about this part of theverge's review?

    "Recent apps show up in a grid on the homescreen, but they aren’t permanent and it’s never clear where the last app I used will land."

    Does this mean app icons always shift around because that can get annoying. Does this also mean I can't position them wherever I want like on an iphone?
    No it doesn't mean that at all. Those comments are extremely misleading from some people that almost certainly know better.

    You have pages of icons that remain permanently wherever you place them. You can easily drag icons to move them to a different spot or page, or on top of each other to make a folder.

    To the left of the icon pages is a home screen that is the BB10 equivalent to double-clicking the home button on iOS to show open apps.
    The home screen shows up to 8 open apps, in order of most recently used. If you close an app it doesn't appear there, so theverge's comment is misleading.

    To left of that is the Hub, your unified inbox / message center, where you can easily view all messages or just one message type on the fly.

    As you can see on screenshots, at the bottom of home/icon screens is a mini map of your homescreens. It shows you the Hub, home screen, and icon pages, plus indicates where you are. It's also interactive, so instead of swiping between pages, you could also tap an item in that bar or drag your finger across it.
    You can also reach the Hub from anywhere with one simple gesture as well, so don't need to ever navigate there.

    You can also swipe down from top of screen to show Quick Settings menu. Best of all, the items that appear there are customizable by you.
    There's Flashlight, Alarms/Bedside Mode, Device Monitor, main Settings app, a really cool Brightness slide bar, and many more options for Quick Settings.

    Lastly are the Peek gestures. Start swiping up or to Hub, but don't lift your finger, and you can get to Peek at what's there for you without leaving where you are. No urgent new messages? Then you just slide your finger right back down and stay where you were.
    Warlack, spike12 and Toodeurep like this.
    09-24-14 06:23 PM
  8. flyersfan76's Avatar
    I've never used a blackberry so don't know what the UI is like. Can someone tell me more about this part of theverge's review?

    "Recent apps show up in a grid on the homescreen, but they arent permanent and its never clear where the last app I used will land."

    Does this mean app icons always shift around because that can get annoying. Does this also mean I can't position them wherever I want like on an iphone?
    I believe they are talking about the active apps that are currently running. When you minimize an app (not close) it goes to the first screen. The most recent screen is in the top right. The next most used app is to the right. And so on. I didn't even read about or watch a video for that so for that reviewer to 1. Not know or figure it out or 2. Convey to the reader what they meant properly speak volumes for their grasp of simple tasks and learning.

    The UI of BB10 is super easy but like all things you might learn something all the time which is great.

    And you can rearrange app icons all day long. Even put them in folders. And you can even name those folders whatever you want to call them. Not sure you can do that in iOS. Haven't tried folders in a while but at one time I knew that you could not.

    Posted via CB10
    Elite1 likes this.
    09-24-14 06:29 PM
  9. Lobwedgephil's Avatar
    This video is pretty funny.

    MazoMark likes this.
    09-24-14 06:31 PM
  10. offyoutoddle's Avatar

    I honestly do believe BB10 is easy to use and learn.

    .
    the acid test is try and explain it to your Gran/Mum (depending on your age, no judgements made here )



    What was originally legitimate criticism is now unfair propaganda.
    have to agree to disagree there, sorry. Ever been to a cash till, and suddenly have a complete blank - what the hell is my pin number? I've typed it a million times. ! Similarly, 2 years down the line, I still have brain freezes from time to time with a BlackBerry 10. If I am alone in that, I'd be suprised.

    Are you sure no one wants an iPhone 6 Plus, Galaxy Note, Galaxy Mega, Xperia Ultra, etc?
    i never said they wouldn't want such phones. But interestingly, have you noticed that the iphone 6 has a feature that is not massively talked about yet that I think is a real USP - the software based one handed mode. You can bet your bottom dollar that if Apple designers noticed this, its something worth thinking about.



    If BBRY does smart advertising, they could have a sleeper hit. If they don't, Passport very well might slide into obscurity like the Z30. Time will tell if they've learned this lesson yet.
    in that i wholeheartedly agree. I have to say though i think BlackBerry's hopes would now also be well served by reinvigorating advertising of the Z30, and pushing the Classic - this is the phone that ease of use is at its best I think - the tool belts welcome return may yet be their saviour on that range.
    Elite1 and anon8656116 like this.
    09-24-14 06:37 PM
  11. evodevo69's Avatar
    Sorry but the ONLY thing people can slag BlackBerry on is their app gap and ecosystem experience.

    You can criticize the 1:1 devices for being poor media consumption experiences - no problem there.

    But when a reviewer throws out criticisms like "it's unintuitive" or that "it doesn't handle email as good as apple or android" is so full of sh*t it's not even funny. Even a child can recognize the impact that muscle memory or familiarity has on your experience, this shouldn't be factored into a review imo.

    A person who's only used BlackBerry their whole lives will find iOS and android cumbersome and unintuitive at first I guarantee it.

    So sorry, the Verge review is biased beyond a doubt.

    #CB10 #Q10 #Darkhorse
    09-24-14 06:49 PM
  12. BirdHand's Avatar
    Passport will be a hit when real people start reviewing it. I love that this phone is so polarizing. I was sold when I discovered the keyboard having that impressive touch control.

    If iPhone 6/6s sold 4 million on launch day, I wouldn't be surprised to see 40K-100K Passports sold today.
    09-24-14 06:57 PM
  13. VeryBumpy's Avatar
    A quick impression that actually makes sense. Except for them mistaking the Classic with the Q10 sub video.
    09-24-14 06:58 PM
  14. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Lets be honest, no one could say bb10 is straight forward
    Sorry, but I completely and utterly disagree with this. I agree there is a learning curve to it if you're used to something else and switching from something else to it.

    But if you took 100 people who never used a smartphone, stuck 'em on a desert island and did a usability test with BlackBerry 10, iOS, Android or Windows Phone, I seriously doubt BlackBerry 10 would stick out as "difficult". In fact, watching my family use BlackBerry 10 and Android devices (yes, including my non-technical mother), they've typically picked them up faster.

    Not buying this "learning curve" bit. You'd swear it's an MS DOS style prompt interface with a 500 page manual full of commands the way a couple of you tell the story.
    Last edited by RubberChicken76; 09-24-14 at 07:21 PM.
    09-24-14 07:07 PM
  15. leejayh's Avatar
    Everything is a double standard for BlackBerry. What is great for Apple (the 6+) becomes something bad for BlackBerry (size).

    It is not for everyone. But some reason, these stupid reviewers all feel that unless you love Apple, you must be an *****. What ever happened to diversity and individuality?

    Pathetic.

    I will display my squat phone proudly.

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-14 07:18 PM
  16. flyersfan76's Avatar
    Sorry but the ONLY thing people can slag BlackBerry on is their app gap and ecosystem experience.

    You can criticize the 1:1 devices for being poor media consumption experiences - no problem there.

    But when a reviewer throws out criticisms like "it's unintuitive" or that "it doesn't handle email as good as apple or android" is so full of sh*t it's not even funny. Even a child can recognize the impact that muscle memory or familiarity has on your experience, this shouldn't be factored into a review imo.

    A person who's only used BlackBerry their whole lives will find iOS and android cumbersome and unintuitive at first I guarantee it.

    So sorry, the Verge review is biased beyond a doubt.

    #CB10 #Q10 #Darkhorse
    LOL if Apple was so great at handling mail then why in the world would Microsoft feel that they need to create an app for OWA? That app alone for people running exchange is so much better.


    Posted via CB10
    09-24-14 07:33 PM
  17. Carrtman's Avatar
    I think the reviews have been fair and some of the criticism definitely makes sense. Judging it from an unbiased point:

    + screen is gorgeous
    + powerful device
    + well made it just screams professional
    + gesture driven keyboard is just awesome
    + very good device for reading pdfs, Excel sheets and Web browsing

    - gents this thing is wide...in fact wider than I expected it to be. I would really fear dropping it when taking/answering phone calls it's definitely not a one handed device at all. BB should have added a one handed operation mode just like Samsung has done with the Note and Galaxy series.

    - no home button seriously BB you have such a capable keyboard and can't let the space bar function as a home button ? Unacceptable

    - OS ...sadly I have to agree here it just doesn't seem to offer the typical BB experience all that swiping , gestures seem to be really difficult to master and as seen in some videos aren#t always working...so BB needs to improve their software. How hard can it really be for such an experienced company to add a recent apps, home and back button function ?

    - battery non removable - as talked about in many threads that's a no brained for a so called enterprise device

    - the bottom black bezel: this thing should have been used for the space bar so far the B and space bar relation just seems odd my physical keyboards at home/notebook/tablet aren't structured that way so it's not something it would like to get used too. A physical call/end call button would have been nice

    Conclusion:
    Safe for that biased Iverge review I think most the reviews where spot on and very fair. Hopefully the phone can help to lead to a blackberry comeback
    09-24-14 08:24 PM
  18. walt63's Avatar
    Many of my friends know in BlackBerry all day. So, they've text me a few times saying, what's up with that new phone. Looks odd. I respond back by asking, why does it look odd? They say it's a square. I respond back with, what's wrong with that?

    They really have no answer to why they feel that it's odd.

    I just send them the link the check out the specs and they just let it go. When people learn more about it and how innovative it is, they'll lighten up.

    Like some said in the forums already, the Passport is like the fat ugly kid. You pick on him and talk about him. But when you get to know him, you found out he's a pretty cool dude.

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-14 08:26 PM
  19. imcurved's Avatar
    I'm going to write my review too...
    09-24-14 08:38 PM
  20. eddy_berry's Avatar
    I think the reviews we're seeing was to be expected, no?
    Yeah. That and the "BlackBerry should just die already" comments were expected well in advance.

    I think the reviews have been fair and some of the criticism definitely makes sense. Judging it from an unbiased point:

    + screen is gorgeous
    + powerful device
    + well made it just screams professional
    + gesture driven keyboard is just awesome
    + very good device for reading pdfs, Excel sheets and Web browsing

    - gents this thing is wide...in fact wider than I expected it to be. I would really fear dropping it when taking/answering phone calls it's definitely not a one handed device at all. BB should have added a one handed operation mode just like Samsung has done with the Note and Galaxy series.

    - no home button seriously BB you have such a capable keyboard and can't let the space bar function as a home button ? Unacceptable

    - OS ...sadly I have to agree here it just doesn't seem to offer the typical BB experience all that swiping , gestures seem to be really difficult to master and as seen in some videos aren#t always working...so BB needs to improve their software. How hard can it really be for such an experienced company to add a recent apps, home and back button function ?

    - battery non removable - as talked about in many threads that's a no brained for a so called enterprise device

    - the bottom black bezel: this thing should have been used for the space bar so far the B and space bar relation just seems odd my physical keyboards at home/notebook/tablet aren't structured that way so it's not something it would like to get used too. A physical call/end call button would have been nice

    Conclusion:
    Safe for that biased Iverge review I think most the reviews where spot on and very fair. Hopefully the phone can help to lead to a blackberry comeback
    The Home Button is just a swipe up. It's the first thing you are taught when you start up a BB for the first time. It works perfectly fine.

    IPhones are starting to dominate Enterprise and they don't have removable batteries.

    OS - It takes some getting used to for someone who has expectations of a home button maybe. It didn't take me long to figure out.

    Just saying.
    09-24-14 08:44 PM
  21. flyersfan76's Avatar
    Yeah. That and the "BlackBerry should just die already" comments were expected well in advance.
    People just don't like having a choice. Can you imagine if everything was that way. We would all be driving whites card and have a choice between a camry and an accord.

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-14 08:57 PM
  22. arvind1983's Avatar
    it is true phones are supposed to be held with one hand not two.
    NO, not at all right. I choose how to hold my phone. Some like me, use two hands even on Z10. it is up to me how to hold it. Or am I holding it wrong? :P
    Rowan M likes this.
    09-24-14 09:02 PM
  23. offyoutoddle's Avatar
    but you haven't put people on an island have you. You've put it out in the big wide world where the majority has seen UI's previously. So where you say you agree if your used to something else, well I guess you agree for the most part then from what you are saying

    Seriously though, you disagree, and that's fine, but I'm afraid you haven't convinced me, nor I suspect an army of slightly myopic and arthritic handed pensioners who can manage an iphone but not BB10. Gestures require dexterity, and memorisation that for some is too daunting. And that's not their fault, its blackberries, if they want an interface that appeals to all. I suspect they don't.

    For the record, you do all realise I actually like BB10, and rate it as one of the most powerful interfaces out there? I just don't think it is easy to pick up, and I have yet to see one arguement that contradicts what I have seen with my own eyes out and about whenever people see a BB10.

    But if you took 100 people who never used a smartphone, stuck 'em on a desert island and did a usability test with BlackBerry 10, iOS, Android or Windows Phone, I seriously doubt BlackBerry 10 would stick out as "difficult"..
    09-25-14 04:13 AM
  24. flyersfan76's Avatar
    So if the reviews are positive mean they are honest while if the reviews are negative they are biased. Is that right? Actually, I think the Verge is the good one, it is true phones are supposed to be held with one hand not two.
    All the kids that I see are texting are holding their phone with 2 hands. Hmm

    Posted via CB10
    Rowan M and mjdimer like this.
    09-25-14 07:27 AM
  25. nihal castelino's Avatar
    both nuts on apple payroll , same with bgr
    09-25-14 07:31 AM
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