06-11-20 11:11 AM
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  1. Onthelinit1979's Avatar
    It couldn’t respond if BlackBerry even wanted. It was smaller company that had it even been able to respond the day before iPhone release with BB10 still would have lost without having the SAF revenue like BBOS .
    Well, BB/RIM revenues were growing 2005-2013. They were $20B Co in 2011. If that isn't big enough to respond to a shifting market, again, that's a leadership problem not a resources one.



    Sent from a Blackberry Passport
    06-05-20 10:28 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    Well, BB/RIM revenues were growing 2005-2013. They were $20B Co in 2011. If that isn't big enough to respond to a shifting market, again, that's a leadership problem not a resources one.



    Sent from a Blackberry Passport
    In Sep of 2011, RIM had a market cap of $10 billion compared to Apple at $350 billion, Microsoft at $200 billion, and Google at over $300 billion.
    06-05-20 11:28 PM
  3. Onthelinit1979's Avatar
    In Sep of 2011, RIM had a market cap of $10 billion compared to Apple at $350 billion, Microsoft at $200 billion, and Google at over $300 billion.
    Their market cap was 35 Billion at the beginning of the year and much higher in 2009-2010. It: was no small company.

    Sent from a Blackberry Passport
    06-06-20 01:21 AM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Well, BB/RIM revenues were growing 2005-2013. They were $20B Co in 2011. If that isn't big enough to respond to a shifting market, again, that's a leadership problem not a resources one.



    Sent from a Blackberry Passport
    Their market cap was 35 Billion at the beginning of the year and much higher in 2009-2010. It: was no small company.

    Sent from a Blackberry Passport
    While I'm no IT guy, I'm definitely in the asset management business with publicly traded companies.

    As pointed out there wasn't anything to be done that would have changed things after developers all went to Android/iOS during 2007-2008 time period. Developers weren't looking to support Microsoft, BlackBerry, Nokia or Palm hardware or software ecosystems. Consumers loved Android/iOS so much that even Microsoft and Nokia partnering, elimination of Symbian, HP failing on webOS and BBOS having the dominant position it had. Basically, consumers and developers only want A/B solutions.

    The problem for BlackBerry was that it wasn't even Microsoft and lacked it's resources. Had it gained traction or started earlier, it would still have the same result as Microsoft in that Android/iOS had the internal business models in place with iTunes and consumer data mining coupled with external business models in place with carriers, developers and even accessories suppliers.

    The problem was that Apple, Google and the carriers were building a new integration model in the 2000s while the industry giants and landline companies that rode the pre-mobile era wave followed the original business models. That's because, those companies had to go where the money existed at time. Leaders of BlackBerry knew they didn't have the economic resources to compete long before anyone else did. Their exit strategy was planned and executed during the run-up in the good years.
    Last edited by Chuck Finley69; 06-06-20 at 08:06 AM.
    neoberry99 and Onthelinit1979 like this.
    06-06-20 07:53 AM
  5. Crusader03's Avatar
    Android was a year behind Apple, and not only caught up, but now dwarfs them 87% / 13%.

    The key was responding immediately - not 6 years later like BB10 did.

    BlackBerry was barely mid-lifecycle on BBOS in 2007, so it was the absolute worst time.

    But honestly, without SAF revenues or the deep pockets of the major players, BlackBerry was doomed anyway.
    Interesting that it takes the whole Android community to overtake Apple. Company vs Company is a very different story, now isn’t it.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    06-06-20 10:59 PM
  6. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Interesting that it takes the whole Android community to overtake Apple. Company vs Company is a very different story, now isn’t it.
    Google vs Apple is company vs company in the mobile space. It's no different than Microsoft vs Apple is company vs company in the regular space. The only sector that BlackBerry ever truly owned and was a bigger player was pagers. There it was BlackBerry vs Motorola if memory serves....
    06-06-20 11:54 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    Interesting that it takes the whole Android community to overtake Apple. Company vs Company is a very different story, now isn’t it.
    That happened by design. Google chose a different business model.
    06-07-20 12:08 AM
  8. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Their market cap was 35 Billion at the beginning of the year and much higher in 2009-2010. It: was no small company.

    Sent from a Blackberry Passport
    The issue is Apple and Google changed the smartphone market from business users to consumers.... They both were working on this back in 2005. By the time they both put product on the market, few really taught a whole lot had changed (but there were some - even here on CrackBerry). But as the years went by, APPS became a big deal. And in the end App Developer are a type of customer... and they loved what Apple and Google was selling.

    Market Cap really doesn't reflect a companies ability to invest into R&D... But by most accounts BlackBerry invested around $12 Billion in the whole switch to a new OS (PlayBook through Leap). And it almost bankrupt them.

    In the end, the time for innovation was back in 2005. By 2010, BlackBerry was already five years behind....

    Yes it was a case of bad management....
    06-08-20 01:56 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    Yes it was a case of bad management....
    I'm not sure I would go so far as saying "bad". Seeing the future can't be the only metric. BlackBerry was only approaching mid-lifecycle on BBOS, and simply got caught off guard by a new paradigm shift that embedded itself before they had a real chance of responding.
    06-08-20 03:20 PM
  10. Onthelinit1979's Avatar
    I'm not sure I would go so far as saying "bad". Seeing the future can't be the only metric. BlackBerry was only approaching mid-lifecycle on BBOS, and simply got caught off guard by a new paradigm shift that embedded itself before they had a real chance of responding.
    Hindsight is always 20 20 but being caught off guard by a new paradigm shift...before they had a chance of responding qualifies in my book as bad management...

    To their credit BB did produce a modern, forward-looking OS that by all standards was on par if not better in many ways that the competition. It was, however, too late for the above reasons. BB became the Betamax in a VHS world (You young folk Google it)



    Sent from a Blackberry Passport
    Crusader03 likes this.
    06-08-20 11:03 PM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Hindsight is always 20 20 but being caught off guard by a new paradigm shift...before they had a chance of responding qualifies in my book as bad management...

    To their credit BB did produce a modern, forward-looking OS that by all standards was on par if not better in many ways that the competition. It was, however, too late for the above reasons. BB became the Betamax in a VHS world (You young folk Google it)



    Sent from a Blackberry Passport
    How could BlackBerry ever have fought it and simultaneously not kill it’s only source of revenue. Killing the golden proverbial goose is never acceptable good management. That would have been the “bad management “ action.
    06-09-20 08:48 PM
  12. m3ach's Avatar
    How could BlackBerry ever have fought it and simultaneously not kill it’s only source of revenue. Killing the golden proverbial goose is never acceptable good management. That would have been the “bad management “ action.
    In hindsight though it would have been the best thing to do and good management but only with the 20-20 vision of hindsight!
    06-10-20 08:47 AM
  13. conite's Avatar
    In hindsight though it would have been the best thing to do and good management but only with the 20-20 vision of hindsight!
    I think the best thing BlackBerry could have done was milk SAF/BIS as long as carriers would have allowed, and meanwhile migrating to cross-platform enterprise software in 2010 instead of acquiring QNX.

    BlackBerry would be ruling EMM and IM today if they had.

    Not to mention skipping the whole BB10 fiasco would have saved them 11 figures.

    Even if BB10 had got out the door earlier, the might of Google and Apple would have squashed it anyway.
    06-10-20 08:49 AM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    In hindsight though it would have been the best thing to do and good management but only with the 20-20 vision of hindsight!
    If only they had Apple or Google diversified revenue model.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-10-20 08:57 AM
  15. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I think the best thing BlackBerry could have done was milk SAF/BIS as long as carriers would have allowed, and meanwhile migrating to cross-platform enterprise software in 2010 instead of acquiring QNX.

    BlackBerry would be ruling EMM and IM today if they had.

    Not to mention skipping the whole BB10 fiasco would have saved them 11 figures.

    Even if BB10 had got out the door earlier, the might of Google and Apple would have squashed it anyway.
    This hardware scenario eventually has to end like Motorola and some of the other large players. In the end, it’s always the company they are now but with far more cash in the checking account. QNX was just a precursor to Cylance acquisition.... LOL
    06-10-20 09:01 AM
  16. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I think the best thing BlackBerry could have done was milk SAF/BIS as long as carriers would have allowed, and meanwhile migrating to cross-platform enterprise software in 2010 instead of acquiring QNX.

    BlackBerry would be ruling EMM and IM today if they had.

    Not to mention skipping the whole BB10 fiasco would have saved them 11 figures.

    Even if BB10 had got out the door earlier, the might of Google and Apple would have squashed it anyway.
    Agree that in the end they should have focused on software and services earlier. Fully supporting iOS, Android and Windows with BBM and their MDM of the day.

    My guess is they'd still be too small to compete with the likes of Microsoft, IBM, VMWare... but without the hardware baggage and with strong and growing software solutions, someone might have bought BlackBerry for $20 Billion when it was still worth something.

    But in the end.... BlackBerry was BlackBerry, someone was always going to offer a competitive product. I look at AtHoc who Chen bought and has helped mange.... and how the competition has surpassed them. Back when BlackBerry bought AtHoc, Everbridge was a tiny private company. Today they are worth more than BlackBerry as a whole.... well based on MarketCap. Really have no idea how much revenue AtHoc generates all on it's own, nor how it's business compare with Everbridge, OnSolve,
    RedFlag, DialMyCalls, Call-Em-All... or the other dozen or so emergency notification products that have popped up in that last five years.
    06-11-20 11:04 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Agree that in the end they should have focused on software and services earlier. Fully supporting iOS, Android and Windows with BBM and their MDM of the day.

    My guess is they'd still be too small to compete with the likes of Microsoft, IBM, VMWare... but without the hardware baggage and with strong and growing software solutions, someone might have bought BlackBerry for $20 Billion when it was still worth something. Who much did Facebook value WhatsApp again? $16 billion?

    But in the end.... BlackBerry was BlackBerry, someone was always going to offer a competitive product. I look at AtHoc who Chen bought and has helped mange.... and how the competition has surpassed them. Back when BlackBerry bought AtHoc, Everbridge was a tiny private company. Today they are worth more than BlackBerry as a whole.... well based on MarketCap. Really have no idea how much revenue AtHoc generates all on it's own, nor how it's business compare with Everbridge, OnSolve,
    RedFlag, DialMyCalls, Call-Em-All... or the other dozen or so emergency notification products that have popped up in that last five years.
    They'd be worth more than they are today had BBM continued to lead in instant messaging alone. Hell, Facebook valued WhatsApp at $22 billion (the initial offer was $16B, but it kept going up until it closed). BlackBerry's entire market cap today is under $4B.

    BlackBerry/Good is also #3 in EMM after VMWare and Microsoft. I think they could have easily secured top spot had they gone cross-platform earlier.
    06-11-20 11:11 AM
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