12-21-17 07:40 PM
332 ... 678910 ...
tools
  1. conite's Avatar
    Definitely not elitism. I don't think that people who know the model numbers and specs of processors are any smarter or better than those who don't. My point is that most people don't care, myself included. I have played with the S8, and it doesn't seem any faster to me than the KEYone.

    People who like tech for its own sake are hobbyists/enthusiasts. It's fun for them, and they are passionate about it, but that's just a small fraction of the smart phone market.

    The same is true for other fields. I'm an audiophile who doesn't think twice about dropping a few thousand dollars on a tube preamp or a thousand dollars on a pair of speaker cables, but that doesn't make me elite or superior. It just makes me a geek for audio reproduction. But I am not the mainstream audio market, and would never pretend to be.

    Some people like premium devices, for whatever reason. They just want the best they can afford. The iPhone and S8 are for them, but most of the people buying those phones don't care about the specs. They just want the top of the line device.

    The same is true of cars. Most Mercedes buyers don't understand any of the technical differences between a Mercedes and a Toyota. But they know they like the Mercedes. Next time you see a Mercedes driver, ask them the model number of their engine and see what look you get. My guess is it will be the same one I get when I ask my coworkers what the SOC is in their Samsung, LG, or iPhones. They have no idea, and also have no reason to care.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I could ask my 15 closest friends (none of whom are in tech) what SoC they had in their phones, and they would have absolutely no idea what I was saying.

    Unfortunately, the sales guy at Best Buy tells them what to buy - and they barely know more than my friends do.
    12-12-17 05:56 PM
  2. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I could ask my 15 closest friends (none of whom are in tech) what SoC they had in their phones, and they would have absolutely no idea what I was saying.

    Unfortunately, the sales guy at Best Buy tells them what to buy - and they barely know more than my friends do.
    Customer in Best Buy: Which Android Phone should I get?

    Salesperson: Well the Samsung S8 is the best. Get that if it's in your budget.

    Customer: It's pretty expensive.

    Salesperson: It's the fastest. If you want the best, that's the one to buy.

    Customer: OK, I don't want a slow phone.
    =======
    Or, as Nigel Tufnel said, "This one goes to eleven."

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-12-17 06:09 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    Customer in Best Buy: Which Android Phone should I get?

    Salesperson: Well the Samsung S8 is the best. Get that if it's in your budget.

    Customer: It's pretty expensive.

    Salesperson: It's the fastest. If you want the best, that's the one to buy.

    Customer: OK, I don't want a slow phone.
    =======
    Or, as Nigel Tufnel said, "This one goes to eleven."

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    And if I swapped it out for a $200 Blu phone and wrote "S8" on it, they would never know even after a month.
    12-12-17 06:13 PM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    And if I swapped it out for a $200 Blu phone and wrote "S8" on it, they would never know even after a month.
    Not unless they needed Knox for work or tried to use Bixby!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-12-17 06:20 PM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    What evidence do you have that more than 5% of the phone buying public knows or cares which processor is in their phone? Even Samsung doesn't mention the processor for the S8 in any of its top-line messaging (camera, Bixby, VR, display are the bullet points).
    They don't bother because that would be a waste of their advertising dollars - not because people don't care, but because it's widely known that whatever the next Galaxy S phone is, it's going to have the latest flagship SoC (just the same way the latest iPhone always does). Also, the tech press and even the mainstream media will thoroughly cover those details, so Samsung (and Apple) can afford to focus on the new "gee whiz" features each year.

    Only tech enthusiasts even know what SOC is in their phone. Certainly the vast majority of mainstream business users don't know or care.
    I agree that a lot of people don't KNOW (exactly what the model number is), but that's not at all the same thing as DON'T CARE - a lot of people who couldn't tell you the name of the processor definitely know they've bought the best one available on the market (Apple aside, because it isn't available and can't be directly compared). Just the same way a lot of people buy Hemi Dodge Challengers and couldn't tell you the displacement of the engine, but they know they have the most powerful model (and paid well for it).

    Knowing they bought the best currently available IS important to a lot of people - knowing the exact name of the SoC isn't. But those are two very different questions with very different answers.
    12-12-17 06:28 PM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Battery life...seriously?
    So long as my phone gets email and let's me browse the Web, battery life is the next most important property. An extra 10-20% battery life is worth $100-200 to me easily.

    As for security,which you call irrelevant, Samsung and BlackBerry are the only games in town for serious enterprise full stack security on Android. Google's Android for Work doesn't include the hardware layer so doesn't qualify. Consumers don't (and probably don't need to) care, but organizations that care about endpoint security certainly do.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-12-17 06:29 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    Knowing they bought the best currently available IS important to a lot of people - knowing the exact name of the SoC isn't. But those are two very different questions with very different answers.
    Actually needing it is a different thing also. Thinking you have it is usually enough.
    12-12-17 06:34 PM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    They don't bother because that would be a waste of their advertising dollars - not because people don't care, but because it's widely known that whatever the next Galaxy S phone is, it's going to have the latest flagship SoC (just the same way the latest iPhone always does). Also, the tech press and even the mainstream media will thoroughly cover those details, so Samsung (and Apple) can afford to focus on the new "gee whiz" features each year.



    I agree that a lot of people don't KNOW (exactly what the model number is), but that's not at all the same thing as DON'T CARE - a lot of people who couldn't tell you the name of the processor definitely know they've bought the best one available on the market (Apple aside, because it isn't available and can't be directly compared). Just the same way a lot of people buy Hemi Dodge Challengers and couldn't tell you the displacement of the engine, but they know they have the most powerful model (and paid well for it).

    Knowing they bought the best currently available IS important to a lot of people - knowing the exact name of the SoC isn't. But those are two very different questions with very different answers.
    I pretty much agree with you on everything you said. But that doesn't mean it would be a smart strategy for BlackBerry to try to compete for those high-end customers by matching specs (at a higher price). BlackBerry Mobile lacks the resources (financial, design, marketing, distribution, manufacturing, economies of scale, etc.) to compete with the Samsung S8 and iPhone. It would be like Kia going after BMW!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-12-17 06:35 PM
  9. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Actually needing it is a different thing also. Thinking you have it is usually enough.
    There's definitely some truth to that as well - but that's more philosophy than technology. LOL
    12-12-17 06:35 PM
  10. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    There's definitely some truth to that as well - but that's more philosophy than technology. LOL
    It's the foundation of marketing strategy for luxury goods in all industries.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-12-17 06:37 PM
  11. krazyatom's Avatar
    Arrgh! But that's YOU! I just went through a list of people with DIFFERENT priorities. Most people have no need for the 835 - it's wasted on them.
    You need to try flagship phone at least once in your life time! Get snapdragon 835/845, you'll love it!
    12-12-17 06:42 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    You need to try flagship phone at least once in your life time! Get snapdragon 835/845, you'll love it!
    I've used plenty of S8s. Meh. Doesn't really change much for what I do. Nice phone though.
    krazyatom likes this.
    12-12-17 06:43 PM
  13. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I pretty much agree with you on everything you said. But that doesn't mean it would be a smart strategy for BlackBerry to try to compete for those high-end customers by matching specs (at a higher price). BlackBerry Mobile lacks the resources (financial, design, marketing, distribution, manufacturing, economies of scale, etc.) to compete with the Samsung S8 and iPhone. It would be like Kia going after BMW!
    That's exactly right, which is why TCL isn't trying to compete that way - they know full-well they'd fail.

    In order to play that game, you have to have all kinds of other "behind the scenes" pieces all working well - carrier relationships, distributor relationships, retailer relationships, training, marketing (with a budget to actually market and advertise, and quality ad firms who won't waste your money like BB's BB10 campaign), support, repair, etc. You have to be pretty damn sure you're going to sell 10M+ of a single model at a good margin in order to do that and stay alive - which is why HTC died and why LG isn't having the easiest time (though this generation's phones are great).

    That's not who TCL is, it's not how they're structured, and they certainly don't have the resources in their mobile division to dump into that kind of attempt right now. That would be like Tesla trying to directly compete against GM by putting 40 models into production this year - they're nowhere near ready for that kind of scale.

    Hell, TCL has been struggling this past year as it is.

    I really think years of BB being willing to lose billions of dollars by overproducing phones and then quickly discounting them has taught BB fans to expect niche items to be low-cost - but BB nearly did themselves in playing that game. Other companies aren't going to be quick to follow that example - $10B could be wasted in much more entertaining ways.

    The new reality is that BB is a niche brand and is going to have to compete on a level playing field, with no subsidizing (BB was essentially subsidizing their phone prices via discounts, and taking huge losses in the process). Niche products cost more for the equivalent item, and that's something BB fans are going to have to come to terms with.
    krazyatom and eshropshire like this.
    12-12-17 06:46 PM
  14. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    It's the foundation of marketing strategy for luxury goods in all industries.
    Don't I know it! The closest thing I have to a luxury-branded anything is an entry-level Acura (TSX). Most "luxury" goods make me laugh out loud - but I try to be polite as much as I can.
    12-12-17 06:48 PM
  15. krazyatom's Avatar
    Oh man I really miss the old good days of BlackBerry
    12-12-17 06:56 PM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Don't I know it! The closest thing I have to a luxury-branded anything is an entry-level Acura (TSX). Most "luxury" goods make me laugh out loud - but I try to be polite as much as I can.
    Nice car. I drove a 3-series BMW for a while. I lived driving it, but not enough to justify the cost. I'm way too pragmatic for luxury goods, too!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    12-12-17 07:05 PM
  17. wingnut666's Avatar
    Nice car. I drove a 3-series BMW for a while. I lived driving it, but not enough to justify the cost. I'm way too pragmatic for luxury goods, too!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    i would say that Kia and BMW are already on a level playing field...and Acura...well, thats just an overpriced Honda.

    i'd rather compare blackberry to Volvo. Once the absolute gold standard of automobiles, now a Chinese replica. Well maybe not..they are still made in Sweden, afaik. Eventually everything will be Chinese.

    Posted via CBX
    12-12-17 07:43 PM
  18. panopticon's Avatar
    Ignore it if you wish, but this is in fact the entire "raison d'être" of the OS and the only reason behind licencing it and the brand name.
    This is just plain wrong and you know it. Google is responsible for securing Android, not BlackBerry. Even if BlackBerry has done anything to contribute to Android OS security...and that's a big if...it would be absorbed into stock Android and integrated into a Pixel device long before it saw the light of day on any competing Android.

    The only thing BlackBerry has contributed that is truly unique to Android security is DTEK (which does nothing except monitor), and proprietary full disk encryption. Sure you can also look at the managed devices aspect but they are far from the only player in that game...and besides, that means nothing to the consumer.

    So what does that leave? The BlackBerry Suite of apps, and the hardware. These are the only two aspects of the BlackBerry brand that really matter. Obviously the apps will run better on higher end hardware. All my BlackBerry apps run faster and smoother on my Essential. BlackBerry calendar for example, easily boots up almost twice as fast as it did on my KEYone. So while TCL can probably pull the wool over some eyes with lower end hardware and a BlackBerry logo, if they don't offer customers a convincing justification to spend a premium for a BlackBerry branded device, they're done. Battery life/size just doesn't cut it for most people.
    12-12-17 07:57 PM
  19. wingnut666's Avatar
    This is just plain wrong and you know it. Google is responsible for securing Android, not BlackBerry.
    agreed. bb has no control over android os.

    Conite, we have plenty of respect for you and enjoy your full-time commitment to crackberry, but sometimes we gotta laugh at your commitment to your opinions... :-)


    Posted via CBX
    12-12-17 08:03 PM
  20. aodash's Avatar
    This is just plain wrong and you know it. Google is responsible for securing Android, not BlackBerry. Even if BlackBerry has done anything to contribute to Android OS security...and that's a big if...it would be absorbed into stock Android and integrated into a Pixel device long before it saw the light of day on any competing Android.
    As a Linux Systems Engineer by profession, I would have to disagree with you from top to bottom. Linux kernel tuning and configuring has everything to do with security. You can have two people tune the same kernel to entirely different results.

    As for Linux Google including BlackBerry's patches it into a Pixel - they don't have to, nor may they want to. There are many downstream Linux patches that never make it into the upstream mainline kernel.

    For reference:
    https://help.blackberry.com/en/secur...226529665.html
    12-12-17 08:06 PM
  21. wingnut666's Avatar
    As a Linux Systems Engineer by profession, I would have to disagree with you from top to bottom. Linux kernel tuning and configuring has everything to do with security. You can have two people tune the same kernel to entirely different results.

    As for Linux Google including BlackBerry's patches it into a Pixel - they don't have to, nor may they want to. There are many downstream Linux patches that never make it into the upstream mainline kernel.

    For reference:
    https://help.blackberry.com/en/secur...226529665.html
    tuning is one thing. exploits are another. baked-in intrusion is something else again. i've been pouring over and nit-picking linux kernel configs for 20 years. did that save me from the krack vulnerability? no chance

    Posted via CBX
    12-12-17 08:09 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    agreed. bb has no control over android os.

    Conite, we have plenty of respect for you and enjoy your full-time commitment to crackberry, but sometimes we gotta laugh at your commitment to your opinions... :-)


    Posted via CBX
    This is just plain wrong and you know it. Google is responsible for securing Android, not BlackBerry. Even if BlackBerry has done anything to contribute to Android OS security...and that's a big if...it would be absorbed into stock Android and integrated into a Pixel device long before it saw the light of day on any competing Android.

    The only thing BlackBerry has contributed that is truly unique to Android security is DTEK (which does nothing except monitor), and proprietary full disk encryption. Sure you can also look at the managed devices aspect but they are far from the only player in that game...and besides, that means nothing to the consumer.

    So what does that leave? The BlackBerry Suite of apps, and the hardware. These are the only two aspects of the BlackBerry brand that really matter. Obviously the apps will run better on higher end hardware. All my BlackBerry apps run faster and smoother on my Essential. BlackBerry calendar for example, easily boots up almost twice as fast as it did on my KEYone. So while TCL can probably pull the wool over some eyes with lower end hardware and a BlackBerry logo, if they don't offer customers a convincing justification to spend a premium for a BlackBerry branded device, they're done. Battery life/size just doesn't cut it for most people.
    Sorry guys. You're 100% wrong.

    BlackBerry Android and BlackBerry Secure (BlackBerry Android for non-BB branded devices) are real things, are quite independent of /supplementary to Google.

    Ask TCL, PT BB Merah Putih, Optiemus Infracom, Yangzhou New Telecom Science, and NTD why they didn't just use stock vanilla Android.

    It's a pretty steep assumption that you think you know the truth, and that all of these players are just being bamboozled.

    The brand name means nothing without the hardened-OS. Nothing. That's the entire point of the licencing exercise for the licencees.

    "BlackBerry Secure is the most secure and comprehensive platform to connect people, devices, processes and systems. A BlackBerry Secure license provides smartphone, IOT, and other product manufacturers with a deeply embedded security solution that is comprised of BlackBerry's proprietary software and applications. Devices built with components from the BlackBerry Secure software platform will have best-in-class security that helps safeguard end-user privacy and protects enterprises from attackers looking to exploit device vulnerabilities."
    Last edited by conite; 12-12-17 at 08:30 PM.
    aodash likes this.
    12-12-17 08:12 PM
  23. wingnut666's Avatar
    100% commitment. :-D

    considering bb fired all its ace coders this is even more of a stretch..

    these companies are B.S.

    Posted via CBX
    12-12-17 08:17 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    100% commitment. :-D

    considering bb fired all its ace coders this is even more of a stretch..

    these companies are B.S.

    Posted via CBX
    BB10 coders, yes.

    They've been hiring Android developers for more than 3 years.
    12-12-17 08:25 PM
  25. wingnut666's Avatar
    BB10 coders, yes.

    They've been hiring Android developers for more than 3 years.
    if you know C and network stacks like the back of your hand, it doesnt really matter what they call the product. QNX devs were the best of the best. i told you about my experience with it in 1997. unbelievable what they could do, and did do with bb10.

    'android devs' are basically ryerson grads.

    Posted via CBX
    12-12-17 08:31 PM
332 ... 678910 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Blackberry Android
    By olga421 in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 12-15-17, 04:45 AM
  2. BlackBerry Secure
    By Bbnivende in forum Android Apps
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-10-17, 12:37 AM
  3. Anyone Else have issues with Blackberry World Payment Options
    By Paul Lindsey in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-09-17, 02:57 PM
  4. About a Blackberry Protect issue
    By Go_rom in forum BlackBerry 10 OS
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-09-17, 02:52 PM
  5. BlackBerry to announce Q3 Fiscal 2018 results on December 20, 2017
    By CrackBerry News in forum CrackBerry.com News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-09-17, 12:40 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD