12-21-17 07:40 PM
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  1. krazyatom's Avatar
    YOU might think so. But everyone else has different priorities and wants their horse in the race too. Where does it stop?

    Next guy says 835 is wasted on him and a top tier camera is all he needs.

    Next guy says he reads all day and SoC and camera don't mean anything - he just wants his QHD screen.

    Next guy teleconferences or listens to media all day - only big, loud quality speakers matter.

    On, and on, and on.....

    Pick a price point, and deliver a package you think your target market will want. In this case, decent (not super-fast, but ultra-efficient) SoC, decent shooter, decent screen, solid build, long battery life.
    My point is that having a Snapdragon 835 over Snapdragon 625 would generate a lot more profit for extra $100. It's like win for customer and TCL. Win-win!
    12-12-17 11:59 AM
  2. conite's Avatar
    My point is that having a Snapdragon 835 over Snapdragon 625 would generate a lot more profit for extra $100. It's like win for customer and TCL. Win-win!
    Arrgh! But that's YOU! I just went through a list of people with DIFFERENT priorities. Most people have no need for the 835 - it's wasted on them.
    Last edited by conite; 12-12-17 at 12:15 PM.
    12-12-17 12:01 PM
  3. Invictus0's Avatar
    Sure it's unrealistic because from a resource standpoint, BBMo doesn't have the resources to compete in the high-end space. BBMo would have to spend 100% revenue on advertising budget alone. Still they would be out spent by the flagship OEMs.

    Have you noticed that not a single Chinese OEM is a big player in NA/Europe?

    Licensing the Nokia and BlackBerry names are the path that Chinese OEMs are trying. TCL bought the Palm brand only to realize that brand is ancient. Unknown to most people on the planet.

    The flagship OEMs are not sitting on their hands waiting for Chinese OEMs to win marketshare. Apple, Google and Microsoft are backing their chosen winners and BlackBerry isn't even a thought. If anything, BlackBerry is on the wrong side of the war.
    Nokia wasn't licensed by a Chinese OEM, it was licensed by a Finnish company made up of former Nokia employees. That being said, Huawei, ZTE, OnePlus/OPPO, etc are making a lot of headway in Western markets.

    https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...hone-Shipments

    More standard parts.
    The Motion actually shares quite a bit with the Idol 5S. The Motion benefits from a different design, added RAM, and a bigger battery though.
    12-12-17 12:01 PM
  4. Invictus0's Avatar
    4gb with 64gb storage should be fine. Socket is most important. I would spend extra $100 for CPU bump. What if keyone had snapdragon 835 for $650 at launch, I am pretty sure that TCL would sell a lot more! More profit for TCL!
    Has any BB10 or BB Android era flagship sold considerably more units than their midrange phones?
    12-12-17 12:03 PM
  5. conite's Avatar

    The Motion actually shares quite a bit with the Idol 5S. The Motion benefits from a different design, added RAM, and a bigger battery though.
    The other major component that is different is the screen.

    Apart from the camera sensor, I'm not sure what else we know is the same. Although I would bet some of the more mundane internals may be from the same source.
    12-12-17 12:06 PM
  6. krazyatom's Avatar
    Has any BB10 or BB Android era flagship sold considerably more units than their midrange phones?
    I don't know. All I remember is that passport sold out everywhere and blackberry didn't have stock to sell. I am just saying what if keyone had snapdragon 835 for extra $100 more. iMO it would have generated more profit for TCL.
    12-12-17 12:17 PM
  7. Invictus0's Avatar
    The other major component that is different is the screen.

    Apart from the camera sensor, I'm not sure what else we know is the same. Although I would bet some of the more mundane internals may be from the same source.
    The SOC of course but they both have a Dragontrail screen as well (compared to the Keyone's Gorilla Glass). It would be neat if someone does a tear down of the two devices to compare them. Sharing components isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO if the components themselves are competitive and it keeps costs low for TCL.
    12-12-17 12:21 PM
  8. aodash's Avatar
    I don't know. All I remember is that passport sold out everywhere and blackberry didn't have stock to sell. I am just saying what if keyone had snapdragon 835 for extra $100 more. iMO it would have generated more profit for TCL.
    Priv sold out everywhere initial too - I know because I was trying to get one at launch. We don't know how much stock was initially there for the Passport (or the Priv). With BlackBerry's characteristically slow product rollouts, a sell out at launch is a bad gauge for overall sales.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    12-12-17 12:25 PM
  9. Invictus0's Avatar
    I don't know. All I remember is that passport sold out everywhere and blackberry didn't have stock to sell.
    Sure, but we know how that story ended. The Passport despite its strong initial sales didn't sell as well as flagships from other OEM's. It's entirely possible that a Snapdragon 6xx chip in the Passport would have generated the same number of sales (or maybe more due to a cheaper price).
    12-12-17 12:25 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    The SOC of course but they both have a Dragontrail screen as well (compared to the Keyone's Gorilla Glass). It would be neat if someone does a tear down of the two devices to compare them. Sharing components isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO if the components themselves are competitive and it keeps costs low for TCL.
    Buying the basic components in bulk is certainly a good thing.

    But no mention of "nano-diamond anti-scratch coating" on the Dragontail website. Are you sure that's where it comes from?
    12-12-17 12:27 PM
  11. wingnut666's Avatar
    i agree that bbmo needs a $900 phone to compete with X and P2.
    there's the motion for the $400 market, the k1 for the $600 market and ??
    i'm frankly considering an iphone X, if it wasnt for all its shortcomings i'd be all over it. if there was a bb-branded option that had similar performance and camera but added a headphone jack, stereo speakers, sd slot, battery life, and got rid of the shatter-glass, it would sell. keyboard or no keyboard.

    edit: apparently the X has stereo speakers..

    Posted via CBX
    12-12-17 12:30 PM
  12. aodash's Avatar
    My point is that having a Snapdragon 835 over Snapdragon 625 would generate a lot more profit for extra $100. It's like win for customer and TCL. Win-win!
    There are customers that do like the high end SoC - I would like it for sure (one of the reasons I upgraded my Priv to a DTEK60), but right now TCL does have to balance the cost to build with the price point they are trying to hit.

    Other companies have the luxury of a little more breathing room. As conite mentioned a few posts back:

    "ZTE, HUAWEI, OnePlus, LG, Sony, and MANY others sell orders of magnitude more devices than BlackBerry Mobile."

    They have the economies of scale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale), allowing them to take a lower margin per device knowing that they will get their money over volume. TCL doesn't have that volume (yet), so they have to make sacrifices with things like SoC in order to maintain a larger margin to give them the necessary operating profits. These margins are needed not only cover costs, further R&D, etc, but also to plan for the unexpected like oh, say, screens falling out. I wonder how much it has cost them to fix that mistake. If you're flying too close to the ground, figuratively speaking, with a mistake like that you'll crash.
    krazyatom and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    12-12-17 12:39 PM
  13. Invictus0's Avatar
    Buying the basic components in bulk is certainly a good thing.

    But no mention of "nano-diamond anti-scratch coating" on the Dragontail website. Are you sure that's where it comes from?
    It's possible the coating could come from somewhere else but the display is definitely Dragontrail on both,

    https://crackberry.com/blackberry-motion-specs

    https://us.alcatelmobile.com/idol-5s...id-smartphone/
    12-12-17 12:49 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Sure, that sounds like a convincing argument. Until you realize there are real people and real customers at the other side of this equation. People that are BlackBerry customers, past and present, that have needs and wants that exceed discount SOC's and oversized batteries dressed up in a decently constructed BlackBerry branded case. Casting a big net into an empty sea won't net you any more fish. Lol.
    What evidence do you have that more than 5% of the phone buying public knows or cares which processor is in their phone? Even Samsung doesn't mention the processor for the S8 in any of its top-line messaging (camera, Bixby, VR, display are the bullet points).

    Only tech enthusiasts even know what SOC is in their phone. Certainly the vast majority of mainstream business users don't know or care.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    app_Developer likes this.
    12-12-17 12:52 PM
  15. panopticon's Avatar
    What evidence do you have that more than 5% of the phone buying public knows or cares which processor is in their phone? Even Samsung doesn't mention the processor for the S8 in any of its top-line messaging (camera, Bixby, VR, display are the bullet points).

    Only tech enthusiasts even know what SOC is in their phone. Certainly the vast majority of mainstream business users don't know or care.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Your remarks smack of elitism. The average member of the public knows a lot more than you give credit. And additionally...if not especially, the average potential BlackBerry customer!
    12-12-17 01:31 PM
  16. wingnut666's Avatar
    Your remarks smack of elitism. The average member of the public knows a lot more than you give credit. And additionally...if not especially, the average potential BlackBerry customer!
    regardless of the name of the processor, everyone notices lag

    Posted via CBX
    12-12-17 01:34 PM
  17. anon(8679041)'s Avatar
    But informed of what ? The last BB10 device was launched in 2015, we are almost in 2018 !

    You don't need an official announcement to know that old devices from three years ago are no longer sold.

    Do you think Samsung made an announcement about the Galaxy S5 end ?


    Posted via CB10
    Brands are different. Blackberry is different. The way we perceive and engage with this brand is different so yes, I do think that at least a simple blog post should have been made.
    12-12-17 01:42 PM
  18. ashish_BB's Avatar
    Buying the basic components in bulk is certainly a good thing.

    But no mention of "nano-diamond anti-scratch coating" on the Dragontail website. Are you sure that's where it comes from?
    Just informing: The nano diamond coating scratched on my Motion. And I believe the extra layer on the screen due to this quoting is making the scratch stand out. Moreover, no screen protectors or the BB cases for Motion are yet available in Dubai or India where I use the phone.
    12-12-17 02:01 PM
  19. wingnut666's Avatar
    Just informing: The nano diamond coating scratched on my Motion. And I believe the extra layer on the screen due to this quoting is making the scratch stand out. Moreover, no screen protectors or the BB cases for Motion are yet available in Dubai or India where I use the phone.
    i've never had a screen protector or a case on my og passport, and its been through some ****. still looks new and not a scratch on the gorilla glass anywhere.

    Posted via CBX
    12-12-17 02:25 PM
  20. ashish_BB's Avatar
    i've never had a screen protector or a case on my og passport, and its been through some ****. still looks new and not a scratch on the gorilla glass anywhere.

    Posted via CBX
    Same here. I have moved (or rather had to move) from Passport SE to Motion. The build quality and the overall user experience of BB devices and BB 10 OS cannot be matched by any of the BB Android device yet.
    krazyatom likes this.
    12-12-17 03:39 PM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    explain how a bull**** company with a name like one plus five can make a business out of smartphones as a newcomer please

    other than child labour

    Posted via CBX
    Their success in and size of their domestic market.
    12-12-17 03:54 PM
  22. panopticon's Avatar
    The build quality and the overall user experience of BB devices and BB 10 OS cannot be matched by any of the BB Android device yet.
    Which is actually the main source of my gripe with BlackBerry Mobile's hardware. When other Android offerings provide better hardware and run the BlackBerry suite of apps better than a 'BlackBerry' and at a better price...where is the incentive to buy a BlackBerry Mobile device, other than the fact it has a BlackBerry logo on it? Battery life...seriously?

    (And before someone says security....lets not go there. We've had that debate a thousand times already...)
    12-12-17 04:15 PM
  23. krazyatom's Avatar
    Their success in and size of their domestic market.
    I am sure BlackBerry is doing better than one plus financially. One plus forum is much more popular and crowded by users though. I am not sure if that is sign of success lol.

    Bottom line is that one plus is still in hardware business and BlackBerry is not.
    12-12-17 04:16 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    (And before someone says security....lets not go there. We've had that debate a thousand times already...)
    Ignore it if you wish, but this is in fact the entire "raison d'être" of the OS and the only reason behind licencing it and the brand name.
    aodash likes this.
    12-12-17 04:20 PM
  25. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Your remarks smack of elitism. The average member of the public knows a lot more than you give credit. And additionally...if not especially, the average potential BlackBerry customer!
    Definitely not elitism. I don't think that people who know the model numbers and specs of processors are any smarter or better than those who don't. My point is that most people don't care, myself included. I have played with the S8, and it doesn't seem any faster to me than the KEYone.

    People who like tech for its own sake are hobbyists/enthusiasts. It's fun for them, and they are passionate about it, but that's just a small fraction of the smart phone market.

    The same is true for other fields. I'm an audiophile who doesn't think twice about dropping a few thousand dollars on a tube preamp or a thousand dollars on a pair of speaker cables, but that doesn't make me elite or superior. It just makes me a geek for audio reproduction. But I am not the mainstream audio market, and would never pretend to be.

    Some people like premium devices, for whatever reason. They just want the best they can afford. The iPhone and S8 are for them, but most of the people buying those phones don't care about the specs. They just want the top of the line device.

    The same is true of cars. Most Mercedes buyers don't understand any of the technical differences between a Mercedes and a Toyota. But they know they like the Mercedes. Next time you see a Mercedes driver, ask them the model number of their engine and see what look you get. My guess is it will be the same one I get when I ask my coworkers what the SOC is in their Samsung, LG, or iPhones. They have no idea, and also have no reason to care.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-12-17 05:48 PM
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